Hearts of Iron IV

[JudgeDredd]

I actually have no feeling on this other than I've liked what I've seen thus far. I've played it way too little to go any further than my gut feeling though.

I hope to stick with this one - but I don't have a great track record with the HoI games. Time will tell

[Queeg]

I seem to recall a massive hue and cry when HOI3 was released because Stalingrad was located in the wrong place.  Every game has its growing pains.  And flaws we tolerate. 

I'm happy to see the direction they've taken with HOI4.  Much like with Operation Barbarossa, I understand why some folks miss more elaborate logistics and OOBs, but there's much in the new system to like.  We already have plenty of games that try to recreate WW2 down to the last bullet.  This is a more abstract approach, that with refinement hopefully will allow a more strategic focus. 

[acctingman]

Seems to me the people who don't like it are the people who actually liked hoI 3 and we're expecting something complex like its predecessor (when it was clearly stated it wasn't going to be....and that's on the buyer)

[Hofstadter]

I think I'm a bit OP. I'm playing as fascist greece, defeated and annexed Bulgaria, transported half my divisons to africa and encircled the british, took cairo and Tel aviv. Now I'm sitting on the edge of Czeckslovakia and waiting for the russians to throw themselves against my forts.

[sandman2575]

Seems to me the people who don't like it are the people who actually liked hoI 3 and we're expecting something complex like its predecessor (when it was clearly stated it wasn't going to be....and that's on the buyer)

I simply don't buy the argument that HOI4 is less complex than its predecessor. The challenges may have shifted to new places, but the idea that HOI4 is somehow unchallenging and shallow is hogwash. Definitely has some rough edges, not trying to suggest otherwise. But as someone who does feel that Stellaris in its current state is a little shallow (though it will grow), I don't have that feeling at all with HOI4. And I put more hours into HOI3 and BlackICE than I can account for --

[IronX]

I seem to recall a massive hue and cry when HOI3 was released because Stalingrad was located in the wrong place.

I'd forgotten about that and numerous other glaring faults. Still, it didn't stop me from enjoying the game from day one. No doubt IV will improve over the coming months and years too.

[Huw the Poo]

I simply don't buy the argument that HOI4 is less complex than its predecessor. The challenges may have shifted to new places, but the idea that HOI4 is somehow unchallenging and shallow is hogwash.

The same was said of Stellaris, and it was "hogwash" there too (you're much more polite than me, I'd have said "bollocks" ;)).

Myself, I'm not dissuaded by the negative comments I've seen thus far.  Stellaris is literally the only reason I haven't yet bought HoI4.  I suspect I'll crack within a week or two!

[Ian C]

Here's what the AI in HOI4 is doing.

Playing first game as UK. I lost Gibraltar when Nationalist Spain entered on the Axis side and I wasn't expecting it. The straits of Gibraltar are closed so all naval transports to Africa must take the long route around the cape of good hope and up the red sea. If I'm daring, I can sneak subs past the straits but I haven't.

USA entered the war December '41. It's now Feb '42. I've secured all of North Africa and tied down the Axis around the East Horn. I have pretty much control of the Med.

I've enabled the 'see allies war plans' mode and the war plans you see are the AI's. AI USA has planned an invasion of Spain from the south and the north, complete with first-stage offensive lines. So, that's a two-front envelopment. As you can see, it plans to take all ports in the north and the south, with a preliminary invasion of Gibraltar. They also are planning to hop the islands in the med.

Interesting?

[acctingman]

Ian C

Your posts/screen shots are NOT helping my decision on postponing my purchase of this game! 

[jamus34]

Dammit my resolve is weakening. I actually like all the theoretical stuff more than you standard "we'll set up WWII how it was historically and then you can beat your head against the wall with the mistakes made"

Biggest thing I want to try is not going after the USSR and using those resources to attempt Sea Lion.

[Queeg]

Interesting?

Very.  I'm sure the AI will be hit-or-miss, especially at first.  But I love the idea of being able to plan an operation in detail and then let my generals do their thing, mistakes and all.  My hope is that the mechanic will become more robust with time -- adding things like more nuanced tactical goals (flanking, envelopment, etc.) and greater and more varied influence of individual generals (Montgomery better on defensive plans, Patton on offensive, etc.)

Yes, the system needs work.  But I also think it has plenty of head room. 

[Ian C]

Yep, seeing allied AI plans is great. In the above example I'm now able to support what they are doing and have moved a lot of air power to the North African coast. I've also got my first para unit ready and have several specialist divisions ready. As soon as they land, I'm in there. This is a much better way than HOI 3, where you had to mark areas of interest and hope the AI would invade.

The biggest issue I have is time. I have the day off and played through a game month in an hour which means in total I got in 3 hours of play today, taking it from December 41 to Feb 42. The speed we saw them playing the game on the streams is total nonsense. It's like trying to force a steak dinner down your throat in twenty seconds. To enjoy the game fully, don't expect fast play. The sheer amount of detail, choices and decisions you have will take up a lot of time if you are really playing it properly and soaking it in. There an awful lot to take in.

On it's own merits this is a really deep, fun solid game. Without a manual.

[Rayfer]

Yep, seeing allied AI plans is great. In the above example I'm now able to support what they are doing and have moved a lot of air power to the North African coast. I've also got my first para unit ready and have several specialist divisions ready. As soon as they land, I'm in there. This is a much better way than HOI 3, where you had to mark areas of interest and hope the AI would invade.

The biggest issue I have is time. I have the day off and played through a game month in an hour which means in total I got in 3 hours of play today, taking it from December 41 to Feb 42. The speed we saw them playing the game on the streams is total nonsense. It's like trying to force a steak dinner down your throat in twenty seconds. To enjoy the game fully, don't expect fast play. The sheer amount of detail, choices and decisions you have will take up a lot of time if you are really playing it properly and soaking it in. There an awful lot to take in.

On it's own merits this is a really deep, fun solid game. Without a manual.

IanC....just curious, in your posted screenshot, are you playing with "Historical AI Focuses" on or off?  One thing I can't figure out; how do I get a group of bombers based in California to the Phillipines? It's too far to fly....how do I set up a transport of planes?

[Ian C]

IanC....just curious, in your posted screenshot, are you playing with "Historical AI Focuses" on or off? 

On, but be aware, the National Focuses you choose (Foci, for the pedants here) will affect the AI's choices and also trigger AI events, so, in theory, if you play 'perfectly historically' and choose each National Focus in the right order, it should follow the events we are familiar with. However...there are also other triggers that can override history, but what I've seen so far has been plausible.

One thing I can't figure out; how do I get a group of bombers based in California to the Phillipines? It's too far to fly....how do I set up a transport of planes?

You click on the Bomber wing and then click on the airfield you want them to go to. They transfer automatically gradually over time.

[SirAndrewD]

I simply don't buy the argument that HOI4 is less complex than its predecessor. The challenges may have shifted to new places, but the idea that HOI4 is somehow unchallenging and shallow is hogwash.

The same was said of Stellaris, and it was "hogwash" there too (you're much more polite than me, I'd have said "bollocks" ;)).

Myself, I'm not dissuaded by the negative comments I've seen thus far.  Stellaris is literally the only reason I haven't yet bought HoI4.  I suspect I'll crack within a week or two!

I most certainly wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying HoI4.  On the contrary.  I think a lot of people will like the game, including people who liked HoI3.  I just don't happen to be one of those people.

I absolutely don't hate HoI4, and the release version is significantly better and more playable than the release version of any previous HoI game.  My dislike of the game is purely on me and perhaps says that I'm just too impatient or unwilling to accept the great grey Ogre of change.  I mean, there are people out there that don't like the Godfather, but I doubt any of them would argue that it's actually a bad film.

I'm probably going to come back and take another look when a lot of DLC comes out.  Right now though I just have other games that I enjoy more to play.  Considering how far along the WW1 mod seems to be, it's inevitable I'll try again, especially once that's fully fleshed out.