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IRL (In Real Life) => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 10:06:10 AM

Title: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 10:06:10 AM
Has anyone heard of widespread GPU issues across the industry due in part to the pandemic and silicon shortages, or any other cause. I keep having problems with my new GPU and although CLX keeps sending me replacements, they claim the issue has to do with GPU and QA issues at the manufacturing level and that they are seeing record numbers of RMAs. I've briefly looked online for this, but nothing jumped out at me. 
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Pete Dero on April 23, 2021, 11:20:43 AM
I've not heard of issues due to the pandemic (besides shortages) but there are other widespread GPU problems.  Just in case it might be helpful :


https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/nvidia-staff-suggests-rolling-back-windows-10-update-to-fix-game-issues/

An NVIDIA staff member has suggested users roll back to an earlier version of Windows 10 to resolve gameplay issues on devices using NVIDIA GPUs.

Since Microsoft released the April 2021 cumulative updates, gamers have complained about frame rate drops and stuttering while playing games.

"If you are seeing lower performance in games, check if rolling back Windows 10 Update KB5000842 solves the issue," an NVIDIA staff member commented in the NVIDIA forums.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 11:34:59 AM
Thanks. My card is an AMD and the nature of my problem is much more severe than reduced frame rates. I wish that is all it was.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Gusington on April 23, 2021, 12:30:28 PM
What kind of problems?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 01:54:15 PM
What kind of problems?

Dude...its so upsetting. It starts with a green screen of death usually followed by artifacting or a hard reboot. Upon reboot, the computer will frequently have no signal going to any of the monitors. On occasion, I can recover and boot normally or get into safe mode. But eventually, I'll get that green screen again and lose signal to the monitors. Most recently, uninstalling the Radeon drivers with DDU and re-installing worked for awhile, but since yesterday, when I had to remove the GPU to install that damn SSD, the problem started again and I've tried that DDU flush twice and now I can't even get it to boot with a monitor signal.

They are sending me ANOTHER 6900XT (this will be no. 3). I just find it so hard to believe that two brand new top of the line GPUs have gone bad. They are convinced that the GPUs are the issue, I just can't help from feeling that something else might be screwing them up. ie. PSU, MOBO, RAM...I don't know...something else. 
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: steve58 on April 23, 2021, 02:09:13 PM
Do you have a spare GPU to swap in to see if the problem persists?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 02:18:50 PM
Do you have a spare GPU to swap in to see if the problem persists?

Negative...but, like I said, this is the second one that has shit the bed.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: steve58 on April 23, 2021, 02:36:45 PM
If your MB has a 2nd GPU slot, try moving it.  Also, maybe try a different video cable?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Gusington on April 23, 2021, 02:43:26 PM
That blows. The really crappy part is the amount of combos/variables. I empathize.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 23, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
If your MB has a 2nd GPU slot, try moving it.  Also, maybe try a different video cable?

Honestly, I'm sick of troubleshooting their shit and knocking my brain to solve this problem. I can't tell you how much time I've spent unreasonably trying to make this work. It is a tremendous pain in my ass every time I need to unplug this thing and take it apart. You spend $3,200 on a new top of the line system and it should just fucking work.

I'm not directing this at you, Steve, just venting. I mean seriously though...if the new card comes in and I still have the problem. Let them test the second GPU slot and if the MOBO is the problem, let them figure it out and replace it. Both slots should fucking work!  :pullhair:
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: steve58 on April 23, 2021, 03:31:01 PM
no worries.  I'd be p*ssed too!
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: endfire79 on April 23, 2021, 03:33:35 PM
Sounds like you eventually got things to work.  Glad to hear that GPU wasn't dead on arrival.  Had that happen to me with BFG Nvidia card just before they went bankrupt years ago ($500 down the drain...).  $500 graphics cards - those were the days!
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: bobarossa on April 23, 2021, 04:15:38 PM
Couldn't find anything about the bad GPU's issue on Tom's Hardware.  But it sounds possible.
https://forums.tomshardware.com/forums/graphics-cards.9/
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: GDS_Starfury on April 23, 2021, 10:00:37 PM
fwiw when I built my current pc I had 3 cpus in a row that were shit. 
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:18 PM
I'm not breaking out any cigars by a long shot, but I did a manual install of the AMD drivers through the device manager and so far the system seems to be running stable. I've watched some youtube, loaded steam and downloaded a file. Otherwise, just let the thing idle on desktop and so far so good. I still only have one monitor plugged in. Next I'm going to plug in my VR headset and see if anything changes. Then, I'll run one of my sims and see what happens.

Why would installing the driver directly from the device manager, rather than through the radeon install program, which gives me the option to just install the driver make a difference?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 25, 2021, 04:56:34 PM
OK...I am now willing to bet that this is a VR related issue. There do not seem to be any problems until I plug in my headset and run Windows Mixed Reality. I do not know if it is a GPU or a PSU issue, but it has to be one of the two and it is triggered by the VR Headset and/or WMR.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: endfire79 on April 25, 2021, 07:53:50 PM
Silly questions, but worth asking:

1) what VR headset do you have, and what type of cable does it use?
2) where does the VR headset cable connect to ? (assuming to the GPU)
3) what type of PSU do you have and what is its max output?
4) do you have another old spare GPU that you can test with ?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 25, 2021, 08:30:31 PM
Silly questions, but worth asking:

1) what VR headset do you have, and what type of cable does it use?
2) where does the VR headset cable connect to ? (assuming to the GPU)
3) what type of PSU do you have and what is its max output?
4) do you have another old spare GPU that you can test with ?

1. Reverb G2, display port and usb-c
2. The GPU
3. EVGA 850 80+ Bronze 850w.
4. No. But this is the second one that has been in the machine.

Some people in other forums have been offended that the retailer would put such a budget psu into a high end system like this one, but 850w should be more than sufficient.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Destraex on April 25, 2021, 09:20:41 PM
Seems like you almost have this problem nipped in the bud. However before I saw that you now think the issue is vr related I was thinking about motherboard BIOS versions and the speed and type of pci-e card slot you are using. Now that you think it is vr related. Does the vr device plug into a usb port and if so what controller. The vr device does not use the same bus, I doubt it. But perhaps see if you can change to a usb port on a different controller if you have two controllers on your mobo? Also chipset drivers for the motherboard usb chipsets?
But yeah it would make sense that the gpu and vr might fight each other given they are both after showing the same data. Perhaps their is an in game setting that specifies what controller should be given control.

I know you have already played around worth video drivers etc.

Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: endfire79 on April 25, 2021, 09:25:51 PM
Silly questions, but worth asking:

1) what VR headset do you have, and what type of cable does it use?
2) where does the VR headset cable connect to ? (assuming to the GPU)
3) what type of PSU do you have and what is its max output?
4) do you have another old spare GPU that you can test with ?

1. Reverb G2, display port and usb-c
2. The GPU
3. EVGA 850 80+ Bronze 850w.
4. No. But this is the second one that has been in the machine.

Some people in other forums have been offended that the retailer would put such a budget psu into a high end system like this one, but 850w should be more than sufficient.

I agree, I don't think your PSU model or output/rating is the problem. That seems more than enough for whatever's in your system.  I have a friend who's running VR on an older Intel based board/cpu with a GTX 1650, although it's the Steam VR.  I haven't compared each VR offering's specs, so I can't really compare.  We've run VR system demos at work with high end Dell offerings, so I'm pretty sure your power output is fine.

You seem to have isolated the problem to be focused around connecting the VR device, which uses both Displayport & USB-C (both can carry power).  I think one thing that might be suspect might be the motherboard and how the VR is connecting/working with the hubs.   

I googled a bit about "msi b550-a pro and hp reberb g2" and found quite a bit of threads about issues.  Here's one, but you can find the rest simply by searching what I searched in the double quotes:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/hp-reverb-g2-vr-headset-bad-news-for-amd-motherboard-users-error-code-1-8/338937

AMD did announced they provided BIOS updates for intermittent USB connectivity issues recently
https://www.techpowerup.com/279634/amd-fixes-intermittent-usb-connectivity-issues-on-500-series-chipsets-bios-update-arrives-in-april?cp=2

Now, before going further I would check what revision of the MSI AMI BIOS you have loaded right now and compare with their website's support section.  If too far back, it may be worth trying to flash the BIOS to the latest offering.  BIOS updates these days have come a long way and are much easier to perform than they were years ago.  I have an Asus x570 but MSI's BIOS update offering for their B550 should be something similar.




Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 04:20:31 AM
^all very interesting about the mobo issues with reverb g2. However, the problems reported in that thread are very different than my own. Not sure if it is the same, but I will mention it to tech support. I will also try using the usb adaptor instead of plugging the usb-c directly into the gpu, just to see what happens and to see if I can further narrow the issue.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Pete Dero on April 26, 2021, 06:00:34 AM
I remember I had a new PC many years ago in 2011 that gave me multiple BSOD every day.

It took me a month before I found the problem : the anti virus program I had back then (ZoneAlarm) didn't disable Windows Defender so both were active at the same time.
When they checked the same file at exactly the same moment : BSOD.

I'm just telling this to show that so many things can go wrong with a PC and that often you need a bit of luck to find the solution.

I switched to AVG and the crashes were gone forever.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 06:45:43 AM
^all very interesting about the mobo issues with reverb g2. However, the problems reported in that thread are very different than my own. Not sure if it is the same, but I will mention it to tech support. I will also try using the usb adaptor instead of plugging the usb-c directly into the gpu, just to see what happens and to see if I can further narrow the issue.

Interesting...using the USB adapter, the computer doesn't detect the HMD at all. That could be the MOBO issue?
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Destraex on April 26, 2021, 06:47:55 AM
Pete reminded me of another thing you could do. Check for BSOD (blue screen of death) dumps after the reboot and analyse the dump to see what exactly was in memory at the time things died. I just wonder whether your reboots produce BSOD memory dump logs.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 07:00:44 AM
Does it matter that I have not had a single BSOD? I guess technically, they are GSODs.  I get a green screen followed by a loss of monitor signal, rarely a crash or reboot. I have to physically power off and power on again in order to eventually get to the windows recovery screen where I can boot into safe mode.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Destraex on April 26, 2021, 07:51:18 AM
Oh I see. I assumed the reboot was involuntary after the green screen. If it was involuntary their is more of a chance a BSOD memory dump record would be left. I have never seen a green screen, so that may just not be showing the BSOD. Green screen might be a VR thing.

Upon doing a very cursory google most people seem to think green screen indicates a desync between picture source and destination.

I wonder if it is the display port cable. There are definitely different types of display port cables. I wonder if VR needs some insane bitrates.

Bandwidth Certification Levels
DisplayPort cables are primarily categorised by their bandwidth certification level. This table outlines the different certifications in more detail:

Transmission Mode   Bandwidth (Gbit/s)   Minimum Cable Certification Needed
RBR (Reduced Bit Rate)   6.48   RBR
HBR (High Bit Rate)   10.8   Standard
HBR2 (High Bit Rate 2)   21.6   Standard
HBR3 (High Bit Rate 3)   32.4   DP8K
UHBR 10 (Ultra High Bit Rate 10)   40   DP8K
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 09:29:46 AM
All I know is that the VR headset worked fine with my 2080ti.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: GDS_Starfury on April 26, 2021, 09:37:37 AM
all of the bloatware that comes with it.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
I just had the most outrageous discussion with HP Technical Support. I actually need to collect myself before I post about it.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 26, 2021, 02:21:12 PM
The conversation went something like this:

Me: Good afternoon. I have a Reverb G2 and I have been having major problems getting it to run properly with my new system which has an AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900X 3.7GHz 12-Core, MSI B550-A PRO - ATX and AMD Radeon™ RX 6900 XT, 16GB of dedicated GDDR6. I've heard some G2's have had compatibility issues with AMD based systems and that new cords have been issued.
HP: No. I haven't heard anything about that. Did you check the minimum requirements?
Me: Yes. This system far exceeds the minimum requirements for VR <said in total disbelief>. When I plug the headset into the new system, I get a green screen, the display loses signal and the display driver is corrupted, requiring me to reboot in safe mode, run DDU and reinstall the drivers. Do you have anything to suggest in terms of troubleshooting?
HP:  The headset is probably not compatible with AMD.
Me: Excuse me, this is technical support, right?
HP: Yes.
Me: Are you telling me that the HP Reverb G2 is not compatible with AMD components? I find that shocking and incredibly hard to believe.
HP: Well, I'm just saying that because it just doesn't work with your new system, and since it worked with the old...
Me: I'm sorry. Do you have anything useful of a technical nature to suggest in order to troubleshoot this problem?
HP: <click>
Me: Hello?
HP: <dial tone>

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Destraex on April 26, 2021, 04:27:22 PM
Wow. The HP tech person decided with a sample of one based on a few questions on behalf of all of hp and with no real testing that your specific build of very common computer components is incompatible. Then has the gaul to get “woke” and entitled enough to hang up on you when you give vent a little frustration. I wonder of the call centre is within country and thus if you took the issue up the chain the person would be held accountable and this clear failing in their organisation fixed.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: endfire79 on April 26, 2021, 08:26:23 PM
Yikes, that wasn't a very helpful 1st level support.  I'd suggest trying again, and making sure you get a ticket number.

If I check the MSI support site, the B550-A Pro latest BIOS revision has the latest fixes from AMD regarding USB issues (April 12 2021).  However it is marked as Beta.  Might be worth a shot later on, perhaps search their support forums for any feedback regarding that revision.

Do you have another VR headset that you could hook up to this new pc - just to see if it has a problem as well or not? 
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 27, 2021, 05:48:17 AM
I saw the beta update for the bios and downloaded it, but did not flash it. I read that it’s really dangerous and should be used only as a last resort.

I am receiving the new gpu today, so I’m done troubleshooting the current system. My fingers are crossed, but I will not be surprised in the least if I have the same problem with the new card. Pray for me.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 27, 2021, 04:18:17 PM
New GPU arrived today and God damn it, so far its working! I will be shocked if the last two cards really were borked. Anyway, running it through the VR paces now. Solid performance thus far. No green screen, no artifacts, no signal loss. Fingers crossed, sacrificing virgins, drinking blood, etc.
Title: Re: GPU Issues
Post by: endfire79 on April 27, 2021, 08:38:52 PM
Good to hear the replaced GPU solves the problem, enjoy!