Author Topic: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon  (Read 5087 times)

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Offline Bison

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 11:46:50 AM »
Yeah I'd tend to side with Colombian claims too.  It'd be great if all of the artifacts recovered to include the treasure were placed into a museum for public viewing.

Offline LongBlade

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 12:03:07 PM »
I dunno - possession is nine tenths of the law. Spaniards had it last. But the wreck is probably within Colombian territorial waters.

If they're smart, they'll split it 50/50. Considering all the coke the Colombians illegally export they really don't deserve more than than, and probably a lot less.

Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »
But the wreck is probably within Colombian territorial waters.

Yes, it is.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2015, 12:04:49 PM »
Agreed, it should be Colombian. I can't understand Britain even trying to put in a claim. Either side would be like saying either Germany or Russia has legal right to a recently re-discovered Nazi train filled with gold yanked from fillings that Soviet tanks blew off a bridge.


As for the 600 men, I fully expect those were soldiers rotating home and/or doing guard duty so that pirates or privateers would have little choice but to risk losing the cargo by gunfire rather than try to board her.
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Offline BanzaiCat

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 12:18:09 PM »
I can't understand Britain even trying to put in a claim.

There's no logic involved when it's 1.5 Billion (with a "B") involved.

I'm sure there were more than a few other governments trying to come up with a legally feasible (not logically feasible, just legally feasible) way of staking a claim in that rich stuff, too.

Offline Nefaro

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2015, 11:56:57 PM »
As for the 600 men, I fully expect those were soldiers rotating home and/or doing guard duty so that pirates or privateers would have little choice but to risk losing the cargo by gunfire rather than try to board her.

The "600" number was probably an estimation of the total losses from the battle.  Not just the single galleon. 

But, yeah, there were probably some extras heading back across the pond too.

Doubt there were many slaves heading back to Europe in a Spanish Treasure Fleet.  They had all hands busy working the mines in central & south america like mad at that time.  The reason for those massive treasure fleet hauls (and high miner mortality rates).


Offline JasonPratt

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2015, 09:52:09 AM »
Duh, I forgot it was a fleet action.  :uglystupid2: :crazy2:

Still, tactically would make sense for them to be crammed as full as possible with troops (and supplies for troops). Gold is heavy but not that bulky, more ditto gems, and the haul would have been spread out on the fleet as much as possible (not counting screening ships more likely to be lost).
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2015, 09:53:50 AM »
Pretty sure everything I've read so far it is that all the loot mentioned so far was all on one ship. Same goes for 600 crew.

Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2015, 09:56:20 AM »
aren't salvage laws usually slanted in favor of "he who finds the wreck"?
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Offline LongBlade

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2015, 10:10:37 AM »
aren't salvage laws usually slanted in favor of "he who finds the wreck"?

According to Wikipedia, yes.

Quote
Concept of salvage under Maritime Law

The right to be rewarded for salvage at sea under common law is based both on equitable principles and public policy and is not contractual in origin. Historically, salvage is a right in law, when a person, acting as a volunteer (that is, without any pre-existing contractual or other legal duty so to act) preserves or contributes so to preserving at sea any vessel, cargo, freight, or other recognized subject of salvage from danger. This is the typical case of salvage and is distinct from Prize law, which is the rescuing of property from the enemy at a time of war, for which a reward is made by the Court of Admiralty sitting as a Prize Court.

The law seeks to do what is fair to both the property owners and the salvors. The right to salvage may not necessarily arise out of an actual contract but is a legal liability arising out of the fact that property has been recovered. The property owner who had benefit of the salvor's efforts must make remuneration, regardless of whether he had formed a contract or not. The assumption here is that when faced with the loss of his vessel and cargo, a reasonable prudent owner would have accepted salvage terms offered, even if time did not permit such negotiations.
Conditions required

Although salvage laws vary from one country to another, generally there are conditions that must be met to allow a claim of salvage. The article under salvage must be fit into certain recognized categories. The vessel must be in peril, which is defined broadly. The person rendering aid (the "salvor") must be acting voluntarily and under no pre-existing contract. Finally, the salvor must be successful in his efforts, though payment for partial success can be granted in certain circumstances.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_salvage

^ Within the above quote there is a link to Prize Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_%28law%29

Clearly this vessel was not taken as a prize (it was sunk) but I suspect the Brits are glomming on to this because they *attempted* to take the vessel as a prize and most assuredly played a role in putting the vessel in danger - a key component of salvage law.

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2015, 12:54:22 PM »
Tell that to Mel Fisher. He had to fight the state of Fla. for years over the wrecks he found off the keys. The only one who's hit a gold mine here will probably be the lawyers.
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Offline LongBlade

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Re: $1.5BILLION treasure found on sunken Spanish galleon
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2015, 12:56:21 PM »
Tell that to Mel Fisher. He had to fight the state of Fla. for years over the wrecks he found off the keys. The only one who's hit a gold mine here will probably be the lawyers.

We are talking about Colombia here - the big winner is likely to be the government officials in charge of antiquities.