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[Keunert]

triple meh

i don't like how we handle assault guns. there is no need to have them at home. my last time in military i've been with immigrant youths from former yugoslawia boasting about their cocaine habits. i am confident that this tradition is just dying.

[LongBlade]

triple meh

i don't like how we handle assault guns. there is no need to have them at home. my last time in military i've been with immigrant youths from former yugoslawia boasting about their cocaine habits. i am confident that this tradition is just dying.

My high school civics teacher used to say, "With increased freedom comes increased responsibility."

[Jack Nastyface]

There must be something wrong with the US society in comparison to the Swiss society?   and its not the guns.

Well, yes and no.   Yes - there is something wrong with many societies...and you are right...it's not about gun ownership.  Per se.

The real challenge, at least from a larger socialogical perspective, is the image or role that guns play within society.  Sometimes that image / role is dictated by formal institutions (the law or a constitution); sometimes by factual and anecdotal history (a fight for independence, the "taming" of the frontier) ; and sometimes by popular media.  Many discussions / images / representations about guns focus on ideas of defense, empowerment and strength.  There are literally thousands of bumper stickers, window signs, t-shirts, buttons,  slogans etc that reflect this thinking.  We sometimes even overlook cases where egregious behaviour is supported by guns...partially because we are responding to the expression of will (empowerment) even over the carriage of justice.  So more people know about Billy the Kid than Judge Roy Bean, and others like Al Capone, Jesse James, and John Dillinger are surrounded with a kind of "romantic" mythos.

And for the most part there's nothing philosophically, morally or legally wrong with this, as resposible citizens who own guns owerwhelmingly tend to act in acceptable, legal, professional and respectable ways. 

But what about those individuals who want to defend their narcotics business, or scare their ex-wife and her new boyfriend, or punish people who are playing Angry Birds because the game sends brain-washing transmissions from outspace?  Society is so constantly bombarded by images and stories of how guns empower individuals to a point where the two are not only linked, but where one (the gun) stands for the other (freedom, power, strength).   Is anyone really surprised that these individuals, misguided or delusional as they are, choose to use guns to exert their will?

The reality, of course is that freedom/power/strength are realized through expressions of personal will, strength of character, moral determination and dedication.  Unfortunately, there are a few who abandon those values and turn to guns when the pathway becomes difficult or distant...or in this most recent case...completely obscured and confused.

[/soapbox]

Jack Nastyface

FWIW, this is not unique to US society (last years killings in Norway, recent shootings in Toronto, Mexico on any day, most of sub-Saharan Africa) nor is the linkage between material items and a particular lifestyle / personal expression (think:  cars = freedom).  I think it just becomes more poignant when made tragic, and the thinking, moral, responsible citizen will become reflective.

[LongBlade]

I'm no sociologist, but that looks like a pretty good synopsis, Jack.

FWIW, the last statistic I saw indicated that since the 1994 gun ban was lifted, the number of deaths by firearm have declined. Don't have a source, it was on TV.

It is horrific, but when we consider how the US is awash in guns - I have two here and several more at my dad's - the surprise is how limited these things on. Most gun crime these days (and this is me talking, not backed by any recent statistics just observation on the local news) most local gun crime is limited to drug dealers shooting each other. Yes, there are other acts like domestic violence, but for those outside the US the picture should not be one of a nation where you cannot leave your house. That's false. We have millions of guns here and in living four decades I have yet to hear a shot fired in anger.

[Barthheart]

...
but for those outside the US the picture should not be one of a nation where you cannot leave your house. That's false. We have millions of guns here and in living four decades I have yet to hear a shot fired in anger.

Good point LB, but I think it shows up part of the problem. Perception. These wingnuts that take a bunch of people out are mostly doing it for the glory and attention. Because the Newsies obsess over these stories they can see that it's the best way to achieve their immortallity.

Take a second right now and name one victim of this shooting......? I can't but the crazy's name is mentioned at least every 1/2 hour on any news outlet.

Stop the news from digging and posting every last detail of these wingnuts lives on TV/papers etc. and they get no glory, no immortality..... What good does it do the victims or the rest of us to see the piece of sh!t sitting in a courtroom. Let teh process happen without the cameras.... then hang'em. Don't store him in a prison where he can later write a book......

[LongBlade]

I hear you.

Not sure how much immortality drives those guys but I will say that it took about ten minutes for me to get sick of seeing that idiot's face on every news website I hit.

[MIGMaster]

They should put a hood on the guy so he won't be able to claim any of the notoriety that the media will feed into. Take away his sense of being recognized.

[mirth]

Here's a genius from my own state. Stopped for doing 112mph on the highway, he's stoned, has several weapons in his vehicle and tells the cops he's on his way to kill his former employer (after watching Dark Knight Rises).

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Biddeford-man-with-arsenal-is-mentally-ill-not-violent-says-family.html

[W8taminute]

^I heard about that guy on the news this morning.  What an idiot.

[Pining]

Some of these people are looking for notoriety.

Some have psych issues. Some psych issues they are born with. Some are developed. Some of those developed, are developed through the use of drugs, legal or not.

I do not know the male in question here. i can only go on what I have seen, which is far from a complete picture.

He would appear to have some psych issues. The technical term for this person, I believe, is a Fruit Loop straight from a Kelloggs packet.

I'm not sure the notoriety would be high on his richter scale.

In the end, he killed numerous people and should be judged on that, but if I was his defence, I know where my angle would be starting from.

As to guns. Guns give a person instant power. Learning to shoot one, doesn't give a person the wisdom or integrity to shoot one (with exceptions!) It's just an instantaneous change from nopower/power!

This is different to...a blackbelt in karate, or even becoming a soldier or a policeman. Hopefully, in these other 'empowerments' the subject is not only given power, the power is hard worked for and treasured for what it is, and there is a moral groundwork instilled.

There's many a person out there who has a 'right' to bear his arm, who should never have been given a gun.