High Noon in the Norwegian Sea, May 22nd 1941

Started by MengJiao, March 03, 2023, 08:20:32 AM

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MengJiao

This is from Vuca Simulations Chase of the Bismarck.  Fuel is the tricky problem for everybody in this simulation. I've probably played more versions of the Bismarck Saga than any other historical event except maybe Gettysburg and this is the first time I can recall being worried about fueling Bismarck.

Operation Berlin, which got Schornhorst and Gneisenau to Brest occurred earlier in 1941 when there was much less sunlight happening up in the Norwegian Sea.  The battlecruisers were able to fuel themselves and sink and capture tankers and merchant ships despite being spotted many times.

I tried the same basic approach with Bismarck and the Heavy Cruiser formerly known as Eugen, but the sun came out over the Norwegian Sea on the first day out from Bergen and a Beaufort from Scapa Flow slapped a torpedo into the big guy.
Not much damage, but it kinda makes you think...maybe a diversion out of Brest might be just the thing in a day or two after the Bismarck draws the chase up north.

Anyway -- here's some views of the carnage:


MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 08:20:32 AMOperation Berlin, which got Schornhorst and Gneisenau to Brest occurred earlier in 1941 when there was much less sunlight happening up in the Norwegian Sea.  The battlecruisers were able to fuel themselves and sink and capture tankers and merchant ships despite being spotted many times.

I tried the same basic approach with Bismarck and the Heavy Cruiser formerly known as Eugen, but the sun came out over the Norwegian Sea on the first day out from Bergen and a Beaufort from Scapa Flow slapped a torpedo into the big guy.
Not much damage, but it kinda makes you think...maybe a diversion out of Brest might be just the thing in a day or two after the Bismarck draws the chase up north.



Okay so pushing history hard (Scharnhorst's boilers were not working in May and Gneisenau was a bomb and torpedo magnet as usual)...Scharnhorst is approaching the convoy routes on the morning of the 23rd.  Hoping for fog, Bismarck sprints toward the Denmark Straits and gets spotted (poor visibility, but no fog).  The game mysteriously plants lots of Huff-Duff sightings on the tanker way to the north where the Koeln and the Prinz E. are trying to do a diversion so it all would have worked but -- no fog in the Straits and Norfolk and Suffolk spot the Bismarck, who is low on fuel, but can definitely refuel around the corner of Greenland  - oh and Arethusa was torpedo-ed critically by a sub, but made repairs and got back to Scapa Flow.  A submarine torpedo attack on Victorious hit a destroyer.  So it goes.



W8taminute

Why is the map marked in German in some images but in English in others?
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

MengJiao

Quote from: W8taminute on March 03, 2023, 03:14:09 PMWhy is the map marked in German in some images but in English in others?

There's a map for the Germans and one for the English.

MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on March 03, 2023, 03:14:09 PMWhy is the map marked in German in some images but in English in others?

There's a map for the Germans and one for the English.

 Meanwhile, by the afternoon of May 25th the weather is clearing and a Sunderland from Hvalfjord spots the Bismarck refueling from a tanker off Cape Farewell near Greenland.  The weather has been really bad.  All Royal Navy ships not in convoys took refuge and refueled in whatever ports they could reach.  Bismarck was close to going to an emergency fuel regime when she joined the tanker Lothringen at Cape Farewell.  Schornhorst has been hunting convoys, but the weather and visibility have been so bad that she hasn't found any and the British have not even noticed the diversion.  The Schornhorst or the Bismarck now need to sink some merchants or the Hood or something or the whole operation will be a fiasco.

MengJiao

#5
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on March 03, 2023, 03:14:09 PMWhy is the map marked in German in some images but in English in others?

There's a map for the Germans and one for the English.

 Meanwhile, by the afternoon of May 25th the weather is clearing and a Sunderland from Hvalfjord spots the Bismarck refueling from a tanker off Cape Farewell near Greenland.  The weather has been really bad.  All Royal Navy ships not in convoys took refuge and refueled in whatever ports they could reach.  Bismarck was close to going to an emergency fuel regime when she joined the tanker Lothringen at Cape Farewell.  Schornhorst has been hunting convoys, but the weather and visibility have been so bad that she hasn't found any and the British have not even noticed the diversion.  The Schornhorst or the Bismarck now need to sink some merchants or the Hood or something or the whole operation will be a fiasco.

Well, Scharnhorst hits the jackpot in the Convoy search: Sierra Leone SL.75.  Though SL convoys had been hit earlier by Hipper and Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, historically SL.75 was a lucky convoy as Scharnhorst was about to find out since the additional escort for SL.75 was HMS Nelson and the cruiser HMS London.  In moderately poor visibility, on the afternoon of the 25th, Scharnhorst sighted some ships of the convoy and moved in fast.  At the moderately close range of 15,000 yards or so, HMS Nelson punched a few 16-inch shells into Scharnhorst's Hull.  The hits reduced Scharnhorst's speed and in the second round of battle as Schornhorst started to run for safety, she wasn't quite fast enough to elude more hits and torpedoes from HMS London and destroyers.  In the end, with most of her guns knocked out, fire control gone and a few torpedo hits, she sank.  I would assume a fairly large number of her crew could be rescued so that's something.  HMS Nelson was not in good shape either, so perhaps Force H will provide some additional cover to the convoy. 

Now the tricky thing is how Bismarck is going to get back some part of Europe under the control of the Third Reich.

Or just not drowning off Greenland.  I thought of ducking into Spain or Portugal.  Portugal is something of an anomaly: no inherent spotting on the coast of Portugal (unlike Spain, but a lot like Greenland or Iceland or most of Canada)  BUT off the Azores spotting could be reported to the British while off Madeira spotting reports go to the Germans.  And you have a higher probability of being reported to the Germans off Madiera than you would off Spain or Morrocco.  Apparently the Axis spy network in Portuguese Madiera was incredibly effective. 

MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 07:48:56 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 03:36:08 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on March 03, 2023, 03:14:09 PMWhy is the map marked in German in some images but in English in others?

There's a map for the Germans and one for the English.

 Meanwhile, by the afternoon of May 25th the weather is clearing and a Sunderland from Hvalfjord spots the Bismarck refueling from a tanker off Cape Farewell near Greenland.  The weather has been really bad.  All Royal Navy ships not in convoys took refuge and refueled in whatever ports they could reach.  Bismarck was close to going to an emergency fuel regime when she joined the tanker Lothringen at Cape Farewell.  Schornhorst has been hunting convoys, but the weather and visibility have been so bad that she hasn't found any and the British have not even noticed the diversion.  The Schornhorst or the Bismarck now need to sink some merchants or the Hood or something or the whole operation will be a fiasco.

Now the tricky thing is how Bismarck is going to get back some part of Europe under the control of the Third Reich.

Well, Bismarck heads for Norway and gets back, but apparently losing the Scharnhorst (for that matter bringing her in at all) cost a lot of points and weirdly enough, remaining at sea with fuel would have gained more points for the Germans.


MengJiao

#7
Quote from: MengJiao on March 03, 2023, 07:48:56 PMWell, Scharnhorst hits the jackpot in the Convoy search: Sierra Leone SL.75.  Though SL convoys had been hit earlier by Hipper and Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, historically SL.75 was a lucky convoy as Scharnhorst was about to find out since the additional escort for SL.75 was HMS Nelson and the cruiser HMS London.  In moderately poor visibility, on the afternoon of the 25th, Scharnhorst sighted some ships of the convoy and moved in fast.  At the moderately close range of 15,000 yards or so, HMS Nelson punched a few 16-inch shells into Scharnhorst's Hull.  The hits reduced Scharnhorst's speed and in the second round of battle as Schornhorst started to run for safety, she wasn't quite fast enough to elude more hits and torpedoes from HMS London and destroyers.  In the end, with most of her guns knocked out, fire control gone and a few torpedo hits, she sank.  I would assume a fairly large number of her crew could be rescued so that's something.  HMS Nelson was not in good shape either, so perhaps Force H will provide some additional cover to the convoy. 
 

I have to admit that I didn't find the game's working out of what would happen if Schornhorst blundered into a convoy in somewhat poor visibility convincing.  I ran a couple of scenarios using Stations Manned and Ready versions of the ships and their capabilities.  The danger to Schornhorst seemed mostly to arise from destroyer torpedos, not from gunfire.  All-in-all, I suspect Schornhorst could escape even in somewhat poor visibility even from Nelson (as played by the pre-Dreadnought Lord Nelson) and London (as played by Dorsetshire):