Katzbach, August 16, 1813

Started by MengJiao, September 30, 2022, 08:35:47 AM

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MengJiao


  Well, Katzbach is not an easy battle to approach or simulate.  For the French and their allies, it was as much a series of natural disasters (including Cossacks in that category) as anything else.
Leading up to it, Cossacks captured the French cyphers.  Napoleon and a small team had to spend a day under a big tree in Zittau fixing that, but naturally no allied commanders ever found out
about that until after the war.  Yorck the hero of some minor treason and what-not at Taurrogen and the antihero of Katzbach, sent his own account of the battle and his complaints about Bluecher and Gneisenau to the King of Prussia in Bohemia, but Count Moltke carrying all that paper drowned trying to get to the King from the wilds of Silesia.  Then (almost as Naturally), Ney misplaced half of the
French army for a couple of days on the way to the crossing of the Katzbach before he left to "help out" elsewhere.  Finally, here is the disposition at 10am from the Library of Napoleonic Battles.  It looks like
the French are all across the Katzbach (unsupported by their other corps).  Actually, at 10 am they were barely even on the area shown in this map.  More about that later:


MengJiao

#1
Quote from: MengJiao on September 30, 2022, 08:35:47 AM

  Well, Katzbach is not an easy battle to approach or simulate.  For the French and their allies, it was as much a series of natural disasters (including Cossacks in that category) as anything else.
Leading up to it, Cossacks captured the French cyphers.  Napoleon and a small team had to spend a day under a big tree in Zittau fixing that, but naturally no allied commanders ever found out
about that until after the war.  Yorck the hero of some minor treason and what-not at Taurrogen and the antihero of Katzbach, sent his own account of the battle and his complaints about Bluecher and Gneisenau to the King of Prussia in Bohemia, but Count Moltke carrying all that paper drowned trying to get to the King from the wilds of Silesia.  Then (almost as Naturally), Ney misplaced half of the
French army for a couple of days on the way to the crossing of the Katzbach before he left to "help out" elsewhere.  Finally, here is the disposition at 10am from the Library of Napoleonic Battles.  It looks like
the French are all across the Katzbach (unsupported by their other corps).  Actually, at 10 am they were barely even on the area shown in this map.  More about that later:

   Hmm....let's start with a typo...Katzbach actually happened on August 26.  Anyway and how about getting on the map?  In two run-throughs the French have done just fine, so let's
go for more realism:
1) Firing started at Seichau and Wiltsch at around 8am as the French V and II Cavalry Corps arrived in the map area.  The rain will stop muskets from firing by 11 am so from there on its bayonets, swords, lances and cannons.  Maybe axes and pikes too according to some accounts.  MacDonald has been in command of his army for only 3 days and half of it was misdirected by Ney during two of those days.
Napoleon, who had been chasing the Army of Silesia until the 23rd, is about to win his last huge battle at Dresden, but meanwhile,
Bluecher and Gneisenau are concentrating the Army of Silesia (they think) between two French concentrations. 
2) The bridges start washing out randomly at noon.  Macdonald is with the V Corps but his old corps IX and III corps are advancing 2-8 hours behind schedule.  The army of Silesia is Concentrated in
the battle area already.
3) and the Upper Katzbach becomes a river at noon (the lower, below the Wuetende Niesse, is already, which was part of the problem for III corps which started on the battlefield but marched off toward the east before finding there were no crossings available)
4) The Army of Silesia had light troops watching everything in the battle area and even blocking the first of MacDonald's moves in the battle area (so i invented some simple light troop rules --they have to be positioned at start in covered terrain, they have a 50-50 chance to disrupt forces moving adjacent.  Failing that, they disappear)

MengJiao

Quote from: MengJiao on October 01, 2022, 05:41:37 PM

   Hmm....let's start with a typo...Katzbach actually happened on August 26.  Anyway and how about getting on the map?  In two run-throughs the French have done just fine, so let's
go for more realism:
1) Firing started at Seichau and Wiltsch at around 8am as the French V and II Cavalry Corps arrived in the map area.  The rain will stop muskets from firing by 11 am so from there on its bayonets, swords, lances and cannons.  Maybe axes and pikes too according to some accounts.  MacDonald has been in command of his army for only 3 days and half of it was misdirected by Ney during two of those days.
Napoleon, who had been chasing the Army of Silesia until the 23rd, is about to win his last huge battle at Dresden, but meanwhile,
Bluecher and Gneisenau are concentrating the Army of Silesia (they think) between two French concentrations. 
2) The bridges start washing out randomly at noon.  Macdonald is with the V Corps but his old corps IX and III corps are advancing 2-8 hours behind schedule.  The army of Silesia is Concentrated in
the battle area already.
3) and the Upper Katzbach becomes a river at noon (the lower, below the Wuetende Niesse, is already, which was part of the problem for III corps which started on the battlefield but marched off toward the east before finding there were no crossings available)
4) The Army of Silesia had light troops watching everything in the battle area and even blocking the first of MacDonald's moves in the battle area (so i invented some simple light troop rules --they have to be positioned at start in covered terrain, they have a 50-50 chance to disrupt forces moving adjacent.  Failing that, they disappear)

  So, a different and maybe more realistic view of things at 8am on August 26.  The Army of Silesia knows where the V corps is.  MacDonald still has no idea where his other corps are and they aren't where he sent them anyway.  Sebastiani's II Cavalry are doing what they should have done according to most commentators on the battle and 1) not fouling up Girard (who will turn up soon) and 2) going right up to Dohnau (which oddly enough is where the monument to the battle is, though the Katzbach wasn't the seen of much and in fact the name of the battle was a way of making Sacken feel better about
not getting enough credit:


MengJiao

#3
Quote from: MengJiao on October 02, 2022, 11:36:29 AM


PS: it's becoming clear that the disaster that overwhelmed the Army of the Bober has some simple dynamics: 1) the scattered French Corps arrive from all over the map 2) the Wuetende Niesse splits the
battlefield and the Army of Silesia controls most of its bridges 3) Bluecher has  more command points (due historically to having Muffling and Gneisenau on his staff).

  10 AM and MacDonald's very own old corps, the XI, turns up.  Until 3 days ago that was his command, that is until he received command of the Army of the Bober (a river in Silesia).  Anyway there they
are under the road march counters.  At 11 all muskets foul and at noon the bridges start washing out: