Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Sir Slash]

Well if Zelensky did promise not to wear a suit until Ukraine won it's war with Russia, that makes more sense. Funny, I've never heard anything of it until this very moment. My panties aren't in a wad, it seems like everyone else's here are. Nobody on the Right is shitting on Zelensky and wondering why and when he will restore Democracy to his country isn't shitting on anything...unless the Left has found a new love now that Fauci has moved-on and cannot tolerate anyone who's not a fanboy. Churchill wore a Jump Suit to the White House, but what did he wear to address Congress and the nation? A hint, it rhymes with 'suit'. In fact it is 'suit'. Now that I have destroyed all of your arguments and ruined your Holidays, my work here is done.

I believe if you are going to visit someone's home, and thank them for sending you a mass of aid that saved your ass, and then ask for more, it's just polite to dress nicely. Send me $ 100 Billion and see what I wear when I come-over. I will even bring a gift. 

[GDS_Starfury]

if I was a member of Congress I would have gone to his speech wearing the same Ukrainian made military sweatshirt as a sign of solidarity.
your boomer generations perspective is the past Slash.  welcome to the 21st century.

[Jarhead0331]

if I was a member of Congress I would have gone to his speech wearing the same Ukrainian made military sweatshirt as a sign of solidarity.
your boomer generations perspective is the past Slash.  welcome to the 21st century.

Interestingly, the sweatshirt is actually made in the United States.  It's made by M-TAC, which is a US clothing company.

Personally, I see both sides of the argument. I don't think its fair to simply state that dress codes and rules of decorum are a "thing of the past" or adhered to only by "boomers". A code of dress is an important and accepted part of acknowledging respect and authority. I make no comment on Zelensky's choice of attire for the occasion, because, personally, I think there are more important issues to focus on.  But in the wider sense, etiquette does and should remain an important part of civilized and ordered society.

[FarAway Sooner]

Etiquette and decorum certainly have their place in maintaining civilization.  But they have also historically been a way of keeping unpleasant truths out of the eyes of the entitled.  So it's a balancing act.  In this case, I'm fine with the way that Zelensky balanced it.

I agree with you that it's not a particularly important topic.  However, that makes it all the more relevant that (in this situation, at least) Slash raised it, and I think it's his raising of it that triggered such a strong response from so many of us. 

To be clear:  While I support the people of Ukraine in their war against Russia, one can't do so blindly.  I 100% agree with that.  If we haven't already learned that lesson with past allies like the Soviet Union in 1945, South Vietnam in 1973, the mujaheddin who morphed into the Taliban after they ousted the Russians from Afghanistan in 1989, or the Afghan warlords who subsequently picked our pockets while doing nothing to oppose the Taliban in 2021, we're even dumber than we think.

[Gusington]

I know that Ukraine isn't perfect. But they are on way higher ground than Russia.

[Victor]

IIRC not just the not wearing a suit but also not shaving his facial hair off is also something he started doing when things kicked off in Feb. He was always clean shaven before.

[UN Weapons Inspector]

I am deeply sorry for not being an frequent poster , truly I am, I wish I could do better. Partially it is out of shame , as English is not my first language. I am regular lurker thought ,and I am really appreciating the information and level of discussion in this forum  ,specially considering that the wargaming and military history are my dear hobbies of the last 40 years.
Saying that, I found the some of discourse here rather disturbing. First , the division between the mythical right and left. Isn't bit outdated by now ? for at least century. Stop it guys, it is useless. I admit it is an convenient  ad hominem strategy, as it allows us to not really address the real  issues. But what about guys like me , I grew up in both communism and capitalism and I am not really enthusiastic about both of them. But to have conversation , or even to be on the fence , I guess , of why the person is not putting his Sunday best  while  by all accounts he  is trying to do his best to defend his people from an existential threat , which in case if  it  is lost in translation means Putin who actively is planning to eradicate the Ukrainian tradition, history and language?  Actually , I suspect he would be equally attacked , by this same people, if he was wearing the suit, the narrative being , among others , as we can never underestimate inventiveness , that he is just some exchangeable carrier politician, caught in the storm and making best of it. But to me, and believe me , as I respect  you right to not to , but this is very real. and how somebody is dressing at this point , it is completely irrelevant to me. By all account , lets discuss what he is saying, and the history will be the judge. And I hate quoting , but this one I would always love by Orwell  "* *Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for.*Don't imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore."   Full disclosure though , bit uncomfortable with language as I always respected, well loved really, my sex workers.

[al_infierno]

I am deeply sorry for not being an frequent poster , truly I am, I wish I could do better. Partially it is out of shame , as English is not my first language. I am regular lurker thought ,and I am really appreciating the information and level of discussion in this forum  ,specially considering that the wargaming and military history are my dear hobbies of the last 40 years.

Saying that, I found the some of discourse here rather disturbing.

First , the division between the mythical right and left. Isn't bit outdated by now ? for at least century. I admit it is an convenient  ad hominem strategy, as it allows us to not really address the real  issues. But what about guys like me , I grew up in both communism and capitalism and I am not really enthusiastic about both of them. But to have conversation , or even to be on the fence , I guess , of why the person is not putting his Sunday best  while  by all accounts he  is trying to do his best to defend his people from an existential threat , which in case if  it  is lost in translation means Putin who actively is planning to eradicate the Ukrainian tradition, history and language?  Actually , I suspect he would be equally attacked , by this same people, if he was wearing the suit, the narrative being , among others , as we can never underestimate inventiveness , that he is just some exchangeable carrier politician, caught in the storm and making best of it.

But to me, and believe me , as I respect  you right to not to , but this is very real. and how somebody is dressing at this point , it is completely irrelevant to me. By all account , lets discuss what he is saying, and the history will be the judge. And I hate quoting , but this one I would always love by Orwell 

"* *Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for.*Don't imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore."   

Full disclosure though , bit uncomfortable with language as I always respected, well loved really, my sex workers.

For what it's worth I think your English is fine, though I spaced out your paragraphs a bit more to make it a little easier on the eyes.  I agree with your points especially about the right vs left arguments, I'm not really sure I see how being "right" or "left" factors in here.

[SirAndrewD]

When I addressed congress I was wearing a tank top that said "Sex Mo-chine" and a red speedo.  It was a huge hit. 

Mon Mothma passed 1 trillion space bucks in aid to me and I got a photo op with Chancellor Palpatine. 

Or...wait...maybe that wasn't congress and was my action figure collection and cat.

[UN Weapons Inspector]

 Thank you. in case of right and left, just this example : @ Nobody on the Right is shitting on Zelensky and wondering why and when he will restore Democracy to his country isn't shitting on anything...unless the Left has found a new love now that Fauci has moved-on and cannot tolerate anyone who's not a fanboy. Churchill wore a Jump Suit to the White House, but what did he wear to address Congress and the nation? A hint, it rhymes with 'suit''
Well  for starters. Im sorry , but for me It is just nonsense. Happy to discus though why it may make sense to somebody.

[UN Weapons Inspector]

And to be clear , I completely understand when people want to be cautious about the the judgments. And I think this is the the beauty of the conversations that we can have right now , and here. And it is precious , and  I am very grateful for that. This opportunity was not granted to humanity for , well my best guess, for best of the time. We are so lucky. And saying that , in way I feel more strongly about what's happening . This is it. No one. on so called left , or center, or whatever asking you to stop using your brain.

[GDS_Starfury]

When I addressed congress I was wearing a tank top that said "Sex Mo-chine" and a red speedo.  It was a huge hit. 
Mon Mothma passed 1 trillion space bucks in aid to me and I got a photo op with Chancellor Palpatine. 
Or...wait...maybe that wasn't congress and was my action figure collection and cat.

virtually no one needed this visual.
so heres a picture of Gus:

[Skoop]

I've been dead set on making Ukraine a non partisan issue.  But I'm hearing some peanut gallery comments from the right that don't really help the situation and only energize Russian propaganda.

When MacArthy says he's going to limit Ukraine spending when he's speaker, isn't that like playing poker and showing everyone your cards ?

I would agree that there might be limits to where we take the struggle in Ukraine, but keep your cards close to your chest and keep your mouth shut.

[GDS_Starfury]

https://www.fpri.org/article/2022/12/how-the-battle-for-the-donbas-shaped-ukraines-success/

[Gusington]

I am way more adorable and you know it.