I've come to the experts seeking help and guidance ...
The fast twitch and switch FPS games just arn't that fun any more ... I was wondering if there were any suggestions for a modern military FPS that relies on tactics, thinking, positioning ... and not quick twitch reflexes ... any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your help ...
Arma III for now. Hopefully in the near future Ground Branch and Ready or Not will get there too. But, yeah, ARMA III can be played the way you want to play it.
If you're a multiplayer person, then Squad might be worth a look
If a military setting isn't super important, SWAT 4 is an old favorite tactical FPS of mine that I replay every few years. Very much in the tradition of oldschool Rainbow Six etc, with emphasis on police procedures like trying to arrest perps instead of killing them when possible.
https://www.gog.com/game/swat_4_gold_edition
Thanks for the responses! Love the shooting games ...
Quote from: al_infierno on December 08, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
If a military setting isn't super important, SWAT 4 is an old favorite tactical FPS of mine that I replay every few years. Very much in the tradition of oldschool Rainbow Six etc, with emphasis on police procedures like trying to arrest perps instead of killing them when possible.
https://www.gog.com/game/swat_4_gold_edition
Oh man...old school, but still very good. If you don't mind going even a little further old school, Swat 3 was even better! So many fond memories.
The Sniper Elite series should be slower (because of the subject) but I don't know if they are really good.
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3293/Sniper_Elite_Complete_Pack/
Older but still good : Brother in Arms Road to Hill 30 & BiA Earned in Blood. (The third one Hell's Highway still is OK but the first two are the better ones IMHO)
https://store.steampowered.com/sub/1847/
^Sniper Elite is a decent enough series...to me, nothing ground-breaking. But the key is, like you say, that they can be played at a slower pace and solo.
Quote from: Gusington on December 08, 2020, 02:31:11 PM
^Sniper Elite is a decent enough series...to me, nothing ground-breaking. But the key is, like you say, that they can be played at a slower pace and solo.
Sniper Elite, however, is primarily a third-person game. It switches to first person when looking though optics (which as a sniper game is a lot), but otherwise there is still plenty of moving around and combat in the 3rd person.
Finally, it is WWII and rwen did say "modern"...I guess the definition of modern can certainly vary.
Quote from: rwenstrup on December 08, 2020, 12:29:42 PM
I've come to the experts seeking help and guidance ...
The fast twitch and switch FPS games just arn't that fun any more ... I was wondering if there were any suggestions for a modern military FPS that relies on tactics, thinking, positioning ... and not quick twitch reflexes ... any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your help ...
How about "Gunfight at the Group Home?" :2funny: (Seriously, I feel your pain. My flight simming is suffering as a result of old age. I'm pretty much limiting myself to A2A's Piper Cub. 70 knots indicated airspeed is about all I can handle anymore....)
Quote from: rwenstrup on December 08, 2020, 12:29:42 PM
I've come to the experts seeking help and guidance ...
The fast twitch and switch FPS games just arn't that fun any more ... I was wondering if there were any suggestions for a modern military FPS that relies on tactics, thinking, positioning ... and not quick twitch reflexes ... any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your help ...
Not exactly sure if it qualifies as a FPS in the normal sense, but give
World of Warships (https://worldofwarships.com/) a look. It checks off your qualifications (tactics, thinking, positioning). You can play PvP or PvE. Just be prepared for teammates who may not be as dedicated as you, but I suspect that's true for most FPS-type games.
edit: oops.. Missed (ignored? :D) the "Modern" in your title. Give WOWS a try anyway. :bd:
^Is there any way to play the World Of games solo?
Quote from: Gusington on December 08, 2020, 05:18:16 PM
^Is there any way to play the World Of games solo?
Just you and bots/ai? Yes, kinda. Can't speak for WoT or WoWPs, but in WoWS you'd have to setup each battle in a Training Room with just you and whatever bots you select for your team and the enemy team.
Still, playing with others is fun, just don't expect them all to play the way you want.
These games always look great to me but I hate people and MP...so they're a no go, usually :/
Quote from: steve58 on December 08, 2020, 05:08:32 PM
Not exactly sure if it qualifies as a FPS in the normal sense, but give World of Warships (https://worldofwarships.com/) a look. It checks off your qualifications (tactics, thinking, positioning). You can play PvP or PvE. Just be prepared for teammates who may not be as dedicated as you, but I suspect that's true for most FPS-type games.
edit: oops.. Missed (ignored? :D) the "Modern" in your title. Give WOWS a try anyway. :bd:
+1 on World of Warships. I am getting on in years myself, and find that I am "twitch challenged." But WOW has a slower pace and I find I hold my own with it; battleships don't strafe, hop and skip after all. The volley fire nature of armament also means you have time the think between shots. Torpedo shots take some time to set up, and the torps are a little slow moving through the water. Also, sometimes you can see the enemy fire at you, 10 seconds before the shot hits, giving you a chance to do some "salvo chasing."
World of Tanks > world of warships
I recommend trying that out. lots of older folks into military history and whatnot play it.
I love how we've spiralled from "a modern FPS" to World of Warships, but there is a certain logic to it. Albeit it's 3rd person, it is a shooter which is tactical and slow-paced.
Quote from: Gusington on December 08, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
These games always look great to me but I hate people and MP...so they're a no go, usually :/
They are MP, and then...they're not. In WoWS, you can play totally by your lonesome, just don't sink/shoot anyone on the Green Team (your teammates). I've even joined a clan in WoWS, a lone wolf clan. Don't have to play/talk with anyone, even clan mates, but I get the benefits of being in a clan (more resources, cheaper ships, etc).
If by modern...you would include WWII, WWII Online might...I say might....work for you.
https://www.wwiionline.com/ (https://www.wwiionline.com/)
The game has been around since the beginning of time and its values are "old school." In game, you generally have to travel quite a bit, or wait in defensive positions; you have a lot of breathing space between encounters (maybe too much). Also the players are generally of the more serious variety and are pretty friendly. Finally, twitch jockeys don't have as much of an advantage with bolt action rifles.
The caveat is that I haven't played in a few years, and gameplay may have changed... also the graphics are soooooo last century. Anyway, there is a free play account that you can try to see if you like it.
Interesting, Steve...
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 08, 2020, 02:59:13 PM
Finally, it is WWII and rwen did say "modern"...I guess the definition of modern can certainly vary.
Posted my suggestions last night and missed a few words in the question :pullhair:
Quote from: Pete Dero on December 09, 2020, 08:31:07 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 08, 2020, 02:59:13 PM
Finally, it is WWII and rwen did say "modern"...I guess the definition of modern can certainly vary.
Posted my suggestions last night and missed a few words in the question :pullhair:
People are recommending World of Warships, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much.
This might not qualify as being modern but I recommend Heroes & Generals. It's a WWII shooter that has big maps, lots of strategy, but a long grind to level up your characters.
I'm an older gamer like yourself and can't deal well with quick paced quick reflex dependent FPS games so H&G appeals to me. It's old school and is all about whomever sees whomever first usually wins the fight. But in order to do that you have to be smart about using the terrain to get to your objective relatively undetected. Lot's of planning and thinking involved.
What really appeals to me is watching your characters grow and develop. You can give names your soldiers, customize their kits, and have as many men as you want. I find enjoyment in watching them develop into the roles I plan for them such as sniper, close quarters combat, LMG support, etc.
You also get to drive tanks, jeeps, trucks, and half-tracks. You can also fly planes of various types. I've got over 2000 hours according to Steam in this game and I have been playing since 2012. Never been bored with this game.
Thanks for all the replies ... gonna try a number of these out!
Quote from: ArizonaTank on December 08, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: steve58 on December 08, 2020, 05:08:32 PM
Not exactly sure if it qualifies as a FPS in the normal sense, but give World of Warships (https://worldofwarships.com/) a look. It checks off your qualifications (tactics, thinking, positioning). You can play PvP or PvE. Just be prepared for teammates who may not be as dedicated as you, but I suspect that's true for most FPS-type games.
edit: oops.. Missed (ignored? :D) the "Modern" in your title. Give WOWS a try anyway. :bd:
+1 on World of Warships. I am getting on in years myself, and find that I am "twitch challenged." But WOW has a slower pace and I find I hold my own with it; battleships don't strafe, hop and skip after all. The volley fire nature of armament also means you have time the think between shots. Torpedo shots take some time to set up, and the torps are a little slow moving through the water. Also, sometimes you can see the enemy fire at you, 10 seconds before the shot hits, giving you a chance to do some "salvo chasing."
Yep, World of Warships is a fun game. I always play PvE and you usually get at least a few humans on your side. On the other hand...er...the reflex thing. I find that after playing any particular game long enough (such as Hell Let Loose) my "reflexes" (or some other kind of adaptive mental thing) get pretty good. It does take me quite a while to switch games. Sniper Elite (blow things up in Italy = 4?) really was an odd experience since it was a lot harder with my HLL reflexes to hit anybody even at 5 feet. I never quite adapted to Sniper Elite, but it still slightly messed up my HLL "reflexes" -- but in a good way apparently which is even stranger. It may be that in HLL they have changed the "penetration" so that the usual German SMG spray no longer kills me instantly and I can get your average feldweblejagerElitetruppenlandsehrkradshutz with a carbine and then (once he is down and moaning) the 45 and if he is still making noises a grenade or two. Seems to work and makes a really big mess.
The ballistics in Sniper Elite always pissed me off. Somehow it was easier to snipe people from medium distances with an ironsighted pistol (because it shoots directly straight) rather than trying to wave around my bolt action and find the right spot for the wind to carry my bullet into the target.
Okay, MODERN first person shooters (with an option for possible 3PS, since some of those have 1PS option). Main qualification is that they are not twitch fests like, say, the Serious Sam games: you should be able to spend significant and substantial amounts of time being tactical about what you're doing. And it should use modern weapons (say from the 70s onward).
Note: every F/3PS game I can think of does require SOME frenetic action occasionally. So I can only think of games where you USUALLY have the option to plan your attacks.
0.) the ARMA series has already been mentioned. It can be a little wonky (sometimes a lot wonky), but has a lot of options on missions and team command (thanks to mods).
1.) the Far Cry series (not counting Primal for obvious reasons) -- I've played 3 and 4 completely, plus some of their DLC, and what I've heard and read of 2 and 5 don't sound different. During those games, while there were some frantic firefights (usually for plot purposes), I could usually opt to take my time and plan my attacks with little to no twitch actions. The gfx are environmentally amazing (less so with 2 perhaps), and the stories are mostly well-written with fair to outstanding voice acting (some of it iconic). Be aware that this is a very hard-R game series in presentation, and the stories tend to be nihilistic and pessimistic. (Except for Blood Dragon which is a futuristic official DLC mod of 3, and plays as a joyful salute to crazy 80s action sci-fi films. It is, however, VERY sci-fi. e.g. "Blood Dragons".)
As a contrast, having played through F.E.A.R long ago, I recall the interior set design forcing a lot more frenetic gameplay when things were happening. You can slow down time a little but I don't recall that being very prevalent (at least in the first game which is the only one I've played).
2.) the Just Cause series, which may come as a surprise! The game's mechanics (I've played through JC2) do induce the player to do crazy things, getting you into frenetic trouble, but I recall being able to tactically plot my way around fights as much as I wanted to, usually (if not as usually as in the FC series). You can be Batman almost as much as you like (the game introduced grapple-and-glide mechanics before the Arkham series), even if sometimes the game forces you to get into a fistfight on top of a speeding nuclear missile. (...um, spoilers.) Game 2's plot wasn't overly much to write home about, but the series likes to boast the largest contiguous maps in the genre, and they put those maps to very good use! (25x25 km in JC2 if I recall -- maybe in miles?) I seem to recall it being 1PS at least as an option.
3.) SpecOps: The Line -- a standalone entry in the SpecOps series of games (I think), this game expects you to take your time, usually, ordering your three-man squad around (somewhat similarly to the Brothers In Arms series, but this is very modern day). Good but dark story.
4.) Ghost Recon: Wildlands -- the Ghost Recon series itself tends (from what I've heard) to be less frenetic, since the whole point is to set up for ambushes. I've actually played some of Wildlands, and I can confirm that this is basically true for this game anyway! (I would suppose Breakpoint (or whatever the next game was called) is similar. Wildlands (unlike Breakpoint) is also a squad management game.
5.) The modern Tomb Raider trilogy (so far), is much less designed for frenetic gunplay than the original series (at least in the first two installments, I haven't played the third yet). You also don't have to worry much about actual tomb raiding, at least in the first game! ::) There are some light survival and crafting elements.
Honorable mention, the Splinter Cell series, very much a modern stealth shooter. I've only played the first game, which hasn't aged well by this time (which is why I can only call this honorable mention), but I gather the last one or two entries are more modern in presentation. I recall it being 1PS.
Honorable mention, the Metal Gear Solid series, so much of a modern stealth shooter that the games often prefer you to get through a level without killing anyone! I've only played the first game (the first 'Solid' game I should say, meaning the first in the series in 3D), which only insane people would want to play in its primitive vomit-inducing 1PS. Entries 4 and 5, I hear, are VERY well regarded.
Honorable mention: the Crysis series. I haven't played them myself yet, and I realize there's a lot of sci-fi in them, but the weapons are mostly real-world, and I get the impression you're supposed to be tactically fighting instead of twitch shooting. Others may be able to confirm or deny.
Honorable mention, the Max Payne series, the first two of which badly need modern updates. Mostly interior close quarter combats make the fights frenetic than not, but you can slow down time usually in bullet time to take aim (much more often than F.E.A.R). It's a 3PS series.
Honorable mention, John Woo's Stranglehold, which (being written by Woo) is a legitimate but rather useless sequel to the film Hard Boiled. ;) Gameplay is very similar to the Max Payne series (ironically since they were aping HB with a new intellectual property!), but with more interaction in the environment (e.g. sliding down bannisters while shooting.) I recall it being 3PS.
Honorable mentions: the S.T.A.L.K.E.R and Metro series seem like less frenetic shooters from what I know about them, although I haven't played them myself.
While some of these games/series (e.g. Crysis and Stalker) have sci-fi/fantasy elements, I'm leaving aside the whole genre of zombie survival games, which vary a lot on twitchiness -- often even in the same game! By its design 7 Days to Die is usually not twitchy at all, until you aggravate fast moving zombies or have to deal with a blood moon, but then things get awfully hectic; and of course you can be thrown quickly into a life-or-death reaction situation even with the slow ones, by game design. It's more a crafting survival game than a shooter, however, and in that game's specific case there doesn't seem to be an end-goal other than surviving one more day.
^Jeez...ARMA is "wonky"? Your list is wonky. Tomb Raider? Spec Ops: The Line? Stranglehold? Max Payne? Jesus dude...total misdirection. Did you go out of your way to recommend decades old third-person twitch shooters that require no tactics, thinking or positioning? ??? :o :D
Seriously, your list is so off the mark, it must have taken a lot of effort to get there. :idiot2: :crazy2:
Ghost Recon is a good call though. I'll give you that.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 09, 2020, 04:01:29 PM
The ballistics in Sniper Elite always pissed me off. Somehow it was easier to snipe people from medium distances with an ironsighted pistol (because it shoots directly straight) rather than trying to wave around my bolt action and find the right spot for the wind to carry my bullet into the target.
I didn't really get most of Sniper Elite. Hell Let Loose now seems even more like a weirdly elegant solution to how to have a WWII FPS. Or maybe that's just where my "reflexes" sort of average out. Or maybe human-driven players in a pretty ordinary landscape are just easier to deal with with a semi-auto rifle than robots in a maze of mazes. Plus, of course, your own side can be helpful in HLL, so that's a plus.
I too expected to enjoy the Sniper Elite games more than I did.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 09, 2020, 06:57:01 PM
^Jeez...ARMA is "wonky"? Your list is wonky. Tomb Raider? Spec Ops: The Line? Stranglehold? Max Payne? Jesus dude...total misdirection. Did you go out of your way to recommend decades old third-person twitch shooters that require no tactics, thinking or positioning? ??? :o :D
Seriously, your list is so off the mark, it must have taken a lot of effort to get there. :idiot2: :crazy2:
Or you don't recall playing them. Or you never played them. Or you played them but decided to run and gun in the FC and JC series rather than being methodical and tactical, which the games also (
mostly as I qualified) allow. I doubt you played the modern Tomb Raider trilogy as run and gun, since it will get you killed fast.
And/or you're ignoring the context of most or all of my remarks, for whatever reason. e.g. I put the Payne and Stranglehold games as "honorable mentions" because
THEY ARE TWITCH SHOOTERS which due to their bullet time mechanics don't play entirely like twitch shooters (contrasted and compared to F.E.A.R as an example where I recall the slow-down mechanic mattering much less.)
Re "decades old"... really. The only games close to 20+ years old, I specifically
warned against trying to play, in favor of their modern series descendants.
But sure, let's go down the list:
ARMA series -- Steam doesn't even sell ARMA 1 anymore from what I can tell searching this afternoon, but I doubt it predates 2001. ARMA 3 is 2013. ARMA 2 was released 2009.
Far Cry 3 -- 2012. I mentioned FC 2 as an aside, 2009. 4 and later are newer than 2012, by the process of math. I mentioned 3 and 4 because I've played those extensively.
Just Cause 2 -- 2010, the later ones are newer, including last year. I mentioned that one as an example, because I've played it extensively.
SpecOps: the Line -- 2012. On checking a moment ago, it seems to be exclusively 3PS, but I often forget I'm watching a character over-the-shoulder. I beat the game, and I know from experience it is not primarily a twitch shooter.
I will provisionally assume you weren't calling Wildlands decades old. ::) But you agreed that it can be played as a tactical shooter. (It can also be played run and gun, although I don't know I'd recommend that.)
Modern Tomb Raider trilogy -- 2013 to last year. That may be exclusively a 3PS (I wouldn't be surprised since Laura Croft obviously ;) , but it is designed from the ground up to be a tactical methodical modern weapon shooter. It was SO VERY MUCH redesigned that way, that the devs controversially dumped Laura's signature two-pistol style in favor of a bow (a la Rambo) as the primary weapon.
The most recent one or two of the Splinter Cell series -- 2010 and 2013. Honorable mention because I've only played the 2008 original which as I warned has not aged well (despite not being decades old). Perhaps the last two went to run and gun
instead of stealth tactical, and they just marketed them wrongly? I hadn't heard that before. It's still being marketed as tactical stealth series; Steam reviews seem to agree (even if they complain occasionally about how well it still works that way).
Metal Gear Solid series -- who thinks this is a twitch shooter series??! I warned off from playing the original games where the gameplay (coming from console) has not aged well. 4 and 5 date from 2008 and 2015. I haven't played them, but from what I've heard 4 doesn't have the same modern gameplay problems that the first and second (arguably the 3rd) have.
Crysis series -- 2007 to 2013. Honorable mention because I haven't played them yet, but I'm well aware that by game design you can go tactical methodical instead of run and gun. Also they get increasingly sci-fi.
Max Payne series -- far down on the list because they ARE twitch shooters in cramped quarters (like FEAR), but the extensive bullet-time makes them play rather differently from other twitch shooters (unlike FEAR where the slow-time effect didn't make much difference to me. Though as I recall FEAR's levels weren't designed for run and gun, but to fight slowly against tactical ambushes. Be that as it may.) I warned
against trying to play the earlier two games, the first of which really is almost decades old (2001). MP3 is 2012.
Stranglehold I mentioned for its oblique relationship to the Payne series, and because it plays similarly; a twitch shooter with lots of bullet time for reflex help. 2009 now that I look it up (I recalled it being a few years later, probably because that's when I got around to playing it. ;) ) I played it on the Playstation 3, and as far as I can tell now that I've looked it up it's a PS3 exclusive.
I fully welcome any mention of other single player capable (or mp exclusive?) modern 1/3PS shooters which can be played in a tactical, methodical fashion. These are the ones I could think of with recent entries that are either well known as tactical shooters by design (Splinter Cell, Metal Gear Solid, Crysis designed both ways), or which I know from personal experience can be played mostly tactically or were designed that way, or (as a far option) which I know from experience require less twitchy reflexes due to a prevalent bullet-time mechanic.
I'm sorry I don't know of many tactical-capable modern-weapon shooters from this particular decade, but I'm only moderately interested in shooters. Mainly because
I don't like playing primarily run-and-gun shooters. So I did not recommend any.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 08, 2020, 01:55:19 PM
Oh man...old school, but still very good. If you don't mind going even a little further old school, Swat 3 was even better! So many fond memories.
SWAT 4 Gold doesn't seem to be on Steam for some reason, but it can be bought on GoG. SWAT 3 Gold edition can be bought either way.
(2004 and 2001, by the way. ::) ::) ::) )
great story!
anyway. Id still recommend world of tanks. you can almost play it at whatever speed you want. by that I mean there are so many types of tanks that theres going to be something there to suit your reflexes. lumber along at 15 kph in Maus or act like an X-wing in a EBR at 95 kph. sit it the back, be sneaky on the flanks, run in dash out, hide in a bush.... whatever. hell you can just sit in the back and play arty and just shit on people when your having a bad day. the matches are 15 minutes max so it doesnt have to be a huge time sink.
Thanks for the continued discussion ... like playing shooters ... always have ... but I enjoy the thinking and positioning a lot more than fast reflexes ... thanks for the input!
Star you should write marketing copy for WoT.
still working on my Panthers review.
You might want to have a look at the Operation Flashpoint series.
Not certain if this fits per se, but maybe The Division? Personally, I've sunk tons of time into Division 1 (and while I've got Division 2, I've not played it near the same amount yet) and think it may have what you are looking for. It's PvE mostly with the possibility of PvP action in the Dark Zones. You can also buddy up with some pals and go a raidin' too!
Quote from: Toonces on December 12, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
You might want to have a look at the Operation Flashpoint series.
I'm fuzzy about how well that even works on modern systems, but... oh, you mean the newer ones? I was going to say that the original two campaigns (Cold War Crisis and Resistance, minus the expansion playing on the Soviet side) were officially ported over to Arma 2 or 3 some time ago.
I know the IP still exists -- Red Dragon something? -- but I've heard very little about it, other than a recollection of the release being buggy. (So, par for the course from the OpFlash/Arma devs! >:D ) I'd like to hear how well the game plays now that time has passed.
Checking: ah, "Dragon Rising". My brain thought I remembered a further one after this, but apparently I'm wrong. Recent reviews are very good. Only $10 when NOT on sale! I'll have to keep this in mind for later...
Yeah, I was talking about Dragon Rising and Red River.
I played a bit of Dragon Rising and found it to be fairly slow and methodical like ARMA. I think Operation Flashpoint was the first ARMA 1. It appears to have been optimized for gamepad/console gaming, but it can be played with a mouse/keyboard. I never finished Dragon Rising, but I played a couple of missions and enjoyed it, specifically because it's not a twitch shooter. I thought single player worked well, controlling just a small fireteam of soldiers.
I own, but haven't played Red River. Too many games, not enough time.
Definitely worth a wishlist and grabbing on sale; I think it would suit OP's criteria very well.
How modern are we talking?
If you want to play the greatest FPS ever created (next to Rogue Spear and Operation Flashpoint 1), then check out Ghost Recon: Gold Edition (now on GOG for the low, low price of 10 bux!).
Slow-paced, tactical shooter with an emphasis on squad coordination and brains, not twitchy trigger fingers. It has had a permanent place on my HD for the past 20 years almost and there are plenty of mods to keep it fresh.
Quote from: rwenstrup on December 08, 2020, 12:29:42 PM
I've come to the experts seeking help and guidance ...
The fast twitch and switch FPS games just arn't that fun any more ... I was wondering if there were any suggestions for a modern military FPS that relies on tactics, thinking, positioning ... and not quick twitch reflexes ... any ideas?
Thanks in advance for your help ...
The simple answer is to mimic real life. You don't need complex scenarios or trigger lines and a butt load of programs.
You need a piece of terrain with opposing forces that have orders that go against each other. Could be a low end FPS, doesn't really matter. When you get to the point that the AI is the most important aspect of a game.....you no longer have a challenge, you have a game.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 09, 2020, 06:57:01 PM
^Jeez...ARMA is "wonky"? Your list is wonky. Tomb Raider? Spec Ops: The Line? Stranglehold? Max Payne? Jesus dude...total misdirection. Did you go out of your way to recommend decades old third-person twitch shooters that require no tactics, thinking or positioning? ??? :o :D
Seriously, your list is so off the mark, it must have taken a lot of effort to get there. :idiot2: :crazy2:
Ghost Recon is a good call though. I'll give you that.
Spoken from an 0331 perspective.