Graviteam Tactics: Mius-Front

[Geezer]

Thanks for the replies.

[DetCord]

Sorry for the thread necro.  Thinking of picking up this game finally, but I'm wondering if the AI is any good.  Watched some replays on Youtube and in one the AI made an attack by sending tanks out in a column with no infantry support which was a really bad idea that didn't end well.  So, is the AI any good?  Thanks.

The AI is excellent, IMHO. Mostly.  They, attack, flank, lay down arty prior to assaults, conduct ambushes, and the like.

The GUI on the other hand remains a steaming pile even after the revamp. It's a mess, the icons and sub-icons make no sense, the derivations of said icons make even less sense, and the arrangement and use of icons, orders, and assets is utterly baffling. The buttons, icon usage, directional planning, deployment, phases, etc etc etc make Steel Division 2 look like a masterpiece in comparison. And that games GUI was absolute garbage.

GT is the epitome of unintuitive. You'll spend the vast majority of your time in GT just learning the GUI, which can actually take a lot of hours resulting in trial and error. However, underneath what is quite possibly the worst excuse for a User Interface I've ever seen, honestly speaking that is, is one of the best and most realistic RTS depictions of the EF I've ever come across.   

Is there a guide you can share that does a decent job covering how to get started in the game?  I've been wanting to get into this as a less micro-heavy alternative to CM for ages but never got past the god-awful interface.

I honestly wouldn't know where to begin. The GUI has changed multiple times to have made any previous in-depth tutorials null as most either cover the basics or are extremely outdated. The WarSimmer via YT has some really good stuff, though the fact that a new player has to be subjected to numerous 30min+ videos on unit movement, cover, deployment, IDF, DF, IFV's, click-spots, or just straight up basic UI familiarization is more than enough to just about turn anyone and everyone off to GT. It is the singular reason this game hasn't become more popular.
   
The devs have stated in the past that they've never employed an actual GUI developer and have instead relied on the existing programmers to hammer this stuff out. It shows....

[88mmkwk]

WarSimmer just posted the first video in a GT:MF campaign playthrough for the Pivot Point DLC.  He is the best Mius Front video producer IMHO and his attention to detail and playthrough description are tops.

Yes, the game UI is considered by many to be a hot mess.  But the underlying game system is so incredibly detailed, realistic and immersive that just maybe it is worth investing the time to overcome the steep learning curve to savor the resulting game experience.  The above campaign playthrough shows how rich the gaming experience is.  WarSimmer talks through what he is doing and lowers the bar to be able to get past the UI to get to the actual game play.

Not a game for everyone, but for those willing to invest the time required to reach detente with the UI, there may be few games that provide a more immersive tactical east front gaming experience....

[Jarhead0331]

^Superb video. Thanks for posting.

[Jarhead0331]

New DLC dropped today too...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1688540/Graviteam_Tactics_Operation_Victory/

Iran - Iraq War

In 1980, at the beginning of the war, the Iraqis main efforts focused on capturing of Khuzestan - the main oil-producing region of Iran. They managed to take control of a significant territory in this region, a large port and refinery center Abadan was also besieged. However, the protracted battle for Khorramshahr and Susangerd cities led to the fact that the Iraqis were no longer able to capture the two next major Iranian cities - Dizful and Ahvaz, but only besieged them. Destruction of a major Iraqi group between Ahvaz and Susangerd became the main goal of the first major Iranian counteroffensive named Operation "Nasr" (Victory). The main role in the operation was assigned to the 16 and 92ArmBde units. Also, IRGC and militia units were brought to participate in the operation.

Two operations - 6 and 5 turns for each side (Iran and Iraq), dedicated to the offensive of the Iranian troops in Khuzestan.
Precisely recreated area at the middle between the rivers Karkheh and Karkheh-Kor, 70 sq. km wide.
Historical organizational structure of units at the time of the operation Nasr.

[W8taminute]

^Ok so I have all but given up on this game due to it's non-intuitive menu and the cumbersome way of issuing commands but by golly I might have to get this DLC and fire up the game again. 

There is practically no game covering the Iran Iraq war so this DLC is worthy of supporting.

[Con]

I weep that a game that excites me this much I just dont have the energy and time to climb the learning curve of its quirky GUI.
when I watch an expert with probably 1000 plus hours in the game still floundering on what should be simple concepts to understand eg what units are best for calling artillery (with wire. with spotter etc) makes me just want to give up.
Its potential needs to have a professional, intuitive GUI with different layers of control and a comprehensive manual in order to appeal to a wider audience (WITE2 does a tremendous job at this with automating aspects a simple interface and the ability to manage/drill down deeply if you want to micromanage).  Instead this is a sea of data with no way to understand it for someone like myself to jump back in.
The video depresses me instead of motivating me

[W8taminute]

^I agree in a way with you Con.  I'm about 42 minutes into the video and I've caught him saying that he'll experiment with a few artillery calling concepts in game. 

But take a look at how he methodically organizes his forces and keeps track of them via the hot key assignments.  I must admit I want to give that a try.  If I can at least figure out how to efficiently manage all of my units on the field I'll feel a bit better about playing the game. 

My fear is that at my age my brain simply can't stay focused on something that is even remotely complex.  This is an example of how youth is truly wasted on the young.  How many 20 somethings really appreciate the complexities of a good war game?  Their youthful brains can easily figure out how to digest large amounts of information and data but they would rather play something simple like pokemon. 

My old brain still appreciates, and craves, the complexities of war games but doesn't have the computing power it once did and that tortures me. 

[Toonces]

There is practically no game covering the Iran Iraq war so this DLC is worthy of supporting.

Just and FYI, Steel Armor: Blaze of War has an Iran-Iraq campaign, and you can actually get into the tanks and drive them and do shooty things.

UI is still extremely difficult to understand, though.  I love the game, but can't play it for crap.

[88mmkwk]

But take a look at how he methodically organizes his forces and keeps track of them via the hot key assignments.  I must admit I want to give that a try.  If I can at least figure out how to efficiently manage all of my units on the field I'll feel a bit better about playing the game. 

My fear is that at my age my brain simply can't stay focused on something that is even remotely complex.  This is an example of how youth is truly wasted on the young.  How many 20 somethings really appreciate the complexities of a good war game?  Their youthful brains can easily figure out how to digest large amounts of information and data but they would rather play something simple like pokemon. 

My old brain still appreciates, and craves, the complexities of war games but doesn't have the computing power it once did and that tortures me.

For me, the reason why WarSimmer is the BEST YouTube GT:MF player to watch is because he does not play the game RTS-clickfest style.  As you noted, he selects groups of platoons and then "hotkeys" them as CTRL-1, CTRL-2, etc so that he can quickly access then during the game.  But the real special sauce he uses is the order delay mechanism.  Setting a CTRL group to wait 2 mins, then unhide and fire at will and then move forward (using the Shift key in the orders to make them sequential) is what most of the other YT videos playing the game (e.g. DasTactic) do not use.  WarSimmer will then set a different delay for a tank platoon and give time for infantry to advance toward cover to reveal any potential hidden AT assets that could threaten the armor.  He then lets the scenario play out according to his orders and just sits back to watch until his direct intervention is required.  To me, the is the BEST way to play GT:MF.  So many other videos show players using GT:MF as a click-fest where they are scrambling all around the screen issuing orders everywhere.  My old brain can't take that anymore and the "plan-order-watch" mode lets me enjoy watching the battle unfold instead of zipping a mouse all around to every unit to give it orders.  Sure, all this doesn't fix the UI, but it means lightning-quick reflexes to quickly send individual orders to a bazillion units in 2 minutes is less important.  Learning to play the game is undoubtably a time investment, but something my crust-laden noggin is willing to spend to access the goodness the game contains.... To each their own!!!

[solops]

Two of my best games are Mius Front and Il-2 Sturmovik. If this Ukraine mess keeps going bad, will it be safe to update Russia based games?

[MengJiao]

There is practically no game covering the Iran Iraq war so this DLC is worthy of supporting.

Just and FYI, Steel Armor: Blaze of War has an Iran-Iraq campaign, and you can actually get into the tanks and drive them and do shooty things.

UI is still extremely difficult to understand, though.  I love the game, but can't play it for crap.

  Mius Front seems to have added a Iran-Iraq war module.  It is focused on the first Iranian counter-offensive when the Iranians still had enough tanks for relatively conventional conventional
warfare (eg no child-soldier human waves of 12-year-olds to blow through mine fields), so I guess that's refreshing.  Though even a close look at a relatively presentable battle in that dreary war
looks pretty depressing since it all happens in some kind of swampy irrigated mudflat in a desert.  On a slightly more up-beat note, recent historians have been using documents now available from
Saddam's regime to study the war as a series of "cognative problems" also known as "one very bad and ultimately pointless plan after another"...naturally I'm going to look into that...but here's a scene
from Operation Victory ( at least no more than an average bad plan).  The missile going over the Iranian Cheiftans is probably a friendly AT missile.  You know its not just the interface that's confusing -- sometimes the battles themselves are confusing:

[MengJiao]

Two of my best games are Mius Front and Il-2 Sturmovik. If this Ukraine mess keeps going bad, will it be safe to update Russia based games?

  Good point.  Well, I've stopped playing most computer games until I get a better machine.  This little foray into Mius-Front may be my last Russian-based game for quite a while.

[W8taminute]

Ok so after watching a couple of videos by The WarSimmer I decided to give this game another chance.  I haven't touched this game in about 3 years but the first thing I noticed upon re-installing was that the battle menu is a bit different from what I remember. 

Lots of tooltips when you hover over the menu icons with decent explanations of what you're looking at.  Ok this might not be that bad I thought.

Next I did my setup for battle loosely, and I mean loosely, following what WarSimmer instructs to do.  I was playing a defensive battle as the Russians.  I think it's the first scenario in the standard game and not a DLC battle.

I promised myself to set up things before the battle as much as possible and then stay hands off once the fighting started.  Guess what?  I saw that I was doing fine without having to panic about micromanaging every single unit on the field.  Really the only extra in battle orders I gave were to re-position artillery spotters and move one company of infantry closer to where the main fighting took place.  Otherwise I just sat there and watched the battle unfold. 

I had so much fun just panning around the map and watching the little fire fights the individuals were engaged in.  There was no stress or pressure due to micromanaging everything during the battle. 

I'm gonna keep on playing and see if I can improve my feel for this game because deep down I know there is a good game in Mius Front.  I just need to get more familiar with how to play the game. 

[Sir Slash]

STOP, tempting me! You know I am weak.  #:-)