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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Grim.Reaper on October 19, 2019, 07:06:57 AM

Title: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on October 19, 2019, 07:06:57 AM
Pete D. thankfully mentioned this in the Crusader Kings II thread, thought might as well start its own thread....I had no idea it was coming.  I did find some details from RPS on possible stuff.

https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/an-heir-is-born

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158310/Crusader_Kings_III/

1. It’s out in 2020.
After more than four years in development, there’s still a lot of work to be done on Crusader Kings 3, and while Paradox are confident in pinning it to 2020, my intuition is that a release before summer would be a surprise. According to the designers I spoke to, CK3 already “far surpasses” the range of features CK2 had on day one, and already covers content from many of its predecessor’s DLC (for example, the 867AD start date from Old Gods). Still, expect “depth rather than breadth” – I get the feeling Paradox want to make a statement with the level of polish at launch, rather than recreating seven years of CK2 expansions.

2. It’s easier to play than Crusader Kings 2. Sort of.
Game director Henrik Fåhraeus says Paradox wanted to make a sequel that “should be more approachable, easier to get into,” than CK2, but that they also understood this clearly isn’t the main concern for series fans. Rest assured: Crusader Kings 3 looks anything but simplified. Still, a lot of time and money has been poured into a more user-friendly UI, and it shows. There are tooltips everywhere, and information seems less buried in menus and secret-feeling windows. For new players, an inobtrusive “suggestion” window offers information at a glance on what’s possible at any given time – what titles you’re in line for, what wars could you start, who needs marrying off, etc. It’s easy for veterans to ignore, but it’s a useful dashboard. Also, Ireland – long CK2’s “tutorial island” – is now the setting for an official tutorial.

3. You can make a dynasty of giants.
If your CK2 playstyle tended towards creepy medieval person-breeding, you will enjoy Crusader Kings 3. There’s a full genetics system, and a lot of attention paid to transferring characteristics across generations. And it won’t just be your ruler picking up traits and quirks, either – as your dynasty spreads across the world via marriages of convenience, and the family name becomes more storied, you’ll be able to spend your renown on persistent perks for your entire lineage. One of these perks is the ability to boost the retention of congenital traits in your family, meaning if you’re dead set on a breeding program for near-mindless haemophiliac colossi, you’re probably in luck.

4. And you can make them cannibals, with the church’s blessing.
Following on from CK2’s Holy Fury expansion and its experiments with designing religions, dynamic faiths and heresies are going to be a big deal in Crusader Kings 3. Making drastic changes to your kingdom’s religion won’t be without consequence, but if you’re truly committed, it looks like it’ll be possible to make a version of Catholicism where it’s absolutely fine for your dynasty of monstrous titans to gorge themselves in secret, holy cannibal rituals. Sounds reasonable.

5. Being a complete git will be more fun.
Intrigue, arguably not much fun in CK2, has had a bit of a glow-up for Crusader Kings 3. There’s a lot more sneaky stuff to play with, including “hooks” – essentially, owed favours, or dirt that you’ve dug up on opponents – which will allow you to manipulate otherwise untouchable characters. If you catch a rebellious baron doing a rudoe behind the medieval bike sheds, for example, you might be able to blackmail him into a harsher feudal contract. Schemes have also been improved, with plots relying less on amassing hordes of randos up for a crack at a hated rival, and being more about finding crucial co-conspirators.

6. There’s no “Deus Vult”.
In the years since CK2’s release, “Deus Vult” – an eleventh century crusader battlecry – has become a vile meme beloved of racists on the internet. I asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

7. There’s a lot of potential for roleplaying.
While it’s not lost any of its strategy chops, Crusader Kings 3 feels a little more like it’s leaning into its RPG DNA. This is thanks in part to the new animated character portraits (complete with the aforementioned modelled genetics), and the procedurally generated, personality-based string descriptors (“callous maniac”, “bold blackguard”), that appear beneath them. Fåhraeus told me “this is a game about characters, so characters should matter in every single feature” – expect to see your ruler’s character, and that of your rivals, factor heavily into everything from event generation to technological progress.

8. Skill trees
Perhaps most RPG-like of all of Crusader Kings 3’s new features is the addition of actual skill trees, based on the mechanics introduced in 2014’s Way of Life DLC for CK2. At present, it seems there are three branches attached to each basic lifestyle choice, with perks named things like “engineered for destruction”, “living off the land” and “wash your hands”. Roleplaying is further encouraged by a stress mechanic, wherein your character can suffer increasing health impediments should you choose to play wildly against type.

9. Knights are more of a thing.
As well as the named leaders of your armies, fighting forces in Crusader Kings 3 now have actual knights – named characters from your kingdom, who could be landed nobility or courtiers – embedded within them. Apparently, depending on their combat skills, they make a big difference to the way battles play out, although I’ve not seen much of the new combat system yet. Siege weaponry is also now in the game, which is exciting.

10. Crusader Kings 2 is becoming free
As stated at the top, CK3’s announcement has coincided with Crusader Kings 2 being made free to play. However, in a shrewd move by Paradox, this offer will not include the game’s many, many DLCs. Still, it means that players looking to start developing their carousing and son-stabbing skills in advance of CK3 have more reason than ever to jump into what Adam called in his Crusader Kings 2 review, “probably the most human strategy game I’ve ever played”.

(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2019/10/ck3-title.jpg/RPSS/resize/760x-1/format/jpg/quality/90)
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2019/10/ck3-2.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/)
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2019/10/ck3-3.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/)
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2019/10/ck3-4.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/)
(https://assets.rockpapershotgun.com/images/2019/10/ck3-5.jpg/RPSS/resize/690x-1/format/jpg/)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on October 19, 2019, 07:22:53 AM
Screenshots look impressive.

Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Barthheart on October 19, 2019, 07:42:18 AM
Quote
6. There’s no “Deus Vult”.
In the years since CK2’s release, “Deus Vult” – an eleventh century crusader battlecry – has become a vile meme beloved of racists on the internet. I asked how Paradox’s community team felt about this, and was told emphatically that the words will not appear in Crusader Kings 3. That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

Hmmmm….. :-\
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Jarhead0331 on October 19, 2019, 07:43:47 AM
Oh thank god! No deus vult. Heaven forbid we acknowledge actual history and excite too many modern fascists.  :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 19, 2019, 08:01:51 AM
I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

Oh I just can't wait to read this and be told how to feel about history and video games!  Hooray for not having to think for myself!

Incidentally, I frequent a lot of places on the internet you'd expect to find "vile racists" and I've literally never heard "deus vult" used anywhere.  I'm done with Paradox.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 19, 2019, 11:20:00 AM
^I was just going to type 'where is deus vult used as a slur'?

This thread offends me.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: AchillesLastStand on October 19, 2019, 11:48:24 AM
Well Tencent does own a part of Paradox so not totally in shock.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/5/27/11797712/chinas-tencent-just-bought-a-piece-of-paradox

Love the setting just not the biggest fan of a medieval soap opera.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on October 19, 2019, 12:32:28 PM
I'm genuinely surprised none of you guys are familiar with "deus vult" in the alt-right memeing context.  It's pretty much right up there with "remove kebab" at this point so I don't blame PDX for not wanting to include the phrase in the new game.  Is it really a big deal that they don't want to include it?  Not sure that this angry reaction is really warranted.  Nobody is telling you what to think or how to feel -- they just don't want to include two words in the game that have been co-opted by racists.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

We're talking about a game series well known for satanic cults and horse bishops/rulers, and suddenly people are concerned about historical accuracy?   ::)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 19, 2019, 12:39:53 PM
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

Yes, it is a big deal, because once again a game is being altered based on a very small vocal element.  It's cowardly too.  I'm not asking you to agree with me, but if you can't see why that would piss people off then you're mental.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

Seriously?  Because China censors everything, that's why!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on October 19, 2019, 12:51:16 PM
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

Yes, it is a big deal, because once again a game is being altered based on a very small vocal element.  It's cowardly too.  I'm not asking you to agree with me, but if you can't see why that would piss people off then you're mental.

Also, what does China have to do with this?

Seriously?  Because China censors everything, that's why!

I didn't say it's everywhere, I said it's a real thing that they're addressing.  To be clear, I'm not even agreeing that this is the right move, but I agree with Paradox's overarching reasoning -- which is to take a stand against supporting/enabling racist memers.  I do see why this pisses people off, because they're responding to a vocal minority element. But I have to ask again -- is it really a big deal that they don't include two words in the game?  It's not like they're removing a major mechanic from the game, just two cosmetic words.

And you really think China gives a shit about alt-right memes in a CK2 game?  They're more interested in censoring free speech related to Hong Kong, Tibet, etc.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 19, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
I didn't say it's everywhere, I said it's a real thing that they're addressing.

Don't split hairs.  Is it widespread or not?  As I said, I've never seen it used that way, ever, and I visit some pretty damn sleazy parts of the internet regularly.

Quote
To be clear, I'm not even agreeing that this is the right move, but I agree with Paradox's overarching reasoning -- which is to take a stand against supporting/enabling racist memers.

This is actually the main thing we disagree on.  I think it's bloody stupid to say they're enabling racists by including a phrase in a game that some people allegedly "misuse".  That's literally not what enabling means.  You can't have a different opinion on this - you're just completely wrong.

Quote
I do see why this pisses people off, because they're responding to a vocal minority element. But I have to ask again -- is it really a big deal that they don't include two words in the game?

So you see why people are angry, then immediately ask whether it's a big deal?  I don't follow.  But to answer your question anyway (on the offchance it's an honest question) - yes, it is a big deal.

Quote
It's not like they're removing a major mechanic from the game, just two cosmetic words.

How many words have to be removed then?  Five?  Twenty?  A thousand?  An art asset or two?  A DLC's worth of content?  How much is relevant?  It's about what it is, not an absurd oversimplification to a question of quantity.

Quote
And you really think China gives a shit about alt-right memes in a CK2 game?  They're more interested in censoring free speech related to Hong Kong, Tibet, etc.

I don't, no.  But it wasn't me who mentioned China.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 19, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on October 19, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Huw, I think I'm being a bit unclear because we're more on the same page than you think.  To be 100% clear, I'm not saying that having the words "deus vult" in the game is actually an enablement of racists.  I agree that removing that phrase is a bit silly.  But I'm saying that Paradox has a serious problem with enabling a community of racists -- a casual glance through the HOI4 Steam community will show this -- and I think this is a step in the right direction from PDX's management, albeit not at all the right way to do it.  As demonstrated in this thread, it seems to just be getting casual bystanders heated more than having any impact on actual racist memers in the PDX community.

And I can see why people are angry while simultaneously disagreeing that it's a big deal.  And yes, everything I'm saying is 100% in good faith.

As a side note, I doubt anybody would even notice that the phrase is missing from CK3 if PDX hadn't announced it.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Pete Dero on October 19, 2019, 01:39:42 PM
OK, well, you say you see it everywhere, I say I see it nowhere.  I guess we'll never resolve that one.

https://www.npr.org/2017/09/04/548505783/scholars-say-white-supremacists-chanting-deus-vult-got-history-wrong (full audio included)

DAVIS: (Reading) By using imagined medieval symbols or names drawn from medieval terminology, they create a fantasy of a pure white Europe that bears no relationship to reality. This fantasy not only hurts people in the present, it also distorts the past.

ULABY: Social media teems with homemade videos glorifying a time when heavily armored Christians fought for Europe against swarthy infidels. Racists online have adopted a crusader rallying cry, deus vult. Reductive medieval imagery and language shows up in posts by contemporary Islamophobes.


According to this it is rather wide spread online.

But when a small minority abuse and distort history this can't mean you have to alter that history.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: KyzBP on October 19, 2019, 01:47:37 PM
I will be a Day One buyer of this.  I'm pretty excited.  However, I too have never heard "Deus Vult" used by anyone let alone some minuscule racist minority.  I either travel in boring, harmonious circles or this really is just a big nothing burger once again blown out of proportion by the "I need to be a victim" members of society.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: SirAndrewD on October 19, 2019, 01:59:39 PM
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.

The usages both originate from 4chan.  Primarily from their /pol/ and /b/ boards.  They're even more popular on the even more radical 8chan.

Remove Kebab was a battlecry of the Christchurch Shooter, as was Deus Vult.   

They've both had traction on Stormfront as well, but that's bleedover from their usage on /pol/.

4chan prides itself on taking everyday or non-loaded statements and radicalizing them, first as hoaxes, and then they tend to catch on in actual right wing groups.   

The "Ok" sign becoming officially (according to the ADL) a hate symbol is also a 4chan originated phenomenon. 

You guys can find out about the rest.   You have to dig in some really ugly corners of the internet for it.  Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Lowenstaat on October 19, 2019, 03:04:25 PM
'Remove kebab'? I really must be getting old, that's new to me too.

The usages both originate from 4chan.  Primarily from their /pol/ and /b/ boards.  They're even more popular on the even more radical 8chan.

Remove Kebab was a battlecry of the Christchurch Shooter, as was Deus Vult.   

They've both had traction on Stormfront as well, but that's bleedover from their usage on /pol/.

4chan prides itself on taking everyday or non-loaded statements and radicalizing them, first as hoaxes, and then they tend to catch on in actual right wing groups.   

The "Ok" sign becoming officially (according to the ADL) a hate symbol is also a 4chan originated phenomenon. 

You guys can find out about the rest.   You have to dig in some really ugly corners of the internet for it.  Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P.

"Keeping on the subject is sure to start getting into R&P."

إن شاء الله‎
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 19, 2019, 03:49:00 PM
I've never been more glad to be ignorant of something.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 19, 2019, 04:21:41 PM
It's just weird that in a game system where the devs are explicitly providing, and marketing, the ability to do absolutely horrible things for the lolz, including the phrase "Deus Vult" is where they're going to draw the line.

I think Paradox is trying to avoid press backlash threatening their sales, as there is no way they could be actually "enabling" white/European supremacists by including a phase in its historical context in a video game, especially one which is often so implicitly critical of the Crusades and Christendom in general -- the games are clearly a warts-and-all sort of thing (at least)!

Or, perhaps this is their way of getting around possible European Union political correctness problems.


Anyway. That doesn't mean I'm going to skip the game, but I sure understand why gimlet squints are being aimed at them by their customers: their rationale can easily look like the start of instituting a political correctness program, even if that's not really what they're doing.

Edited to add that it doesn't help for the article's author (as quoted in the OP) to be putting an obvious rah-yay PC spin on the choice, gladly suborning a historical detail, and vocally calling for more such adjustments! This attitude may be factoring more into suspicions about what else the Paradox devs may do (or may be required to do).

Quote
That’s refreshing, but in a game set during a time of conflicts fetishised by modern fascists, it’s the tip of the iceberg. I’ll be writing more about how Paradox are handling the political sensitivities of making a game about the crusades, and how they’re handling the representation of non-European cultures, in the weeks to come.

It's not just one phrase to be memory-holed, then, in order to avoid even the slightest suspicion of innuendo of supporting racists.  ::) "Refreshing" == "oh thank something that people who don't want disruptive cultures overrunning Europe, I mean racists, can't use this game to promote their hateful racism {sips soy latte}"

Whereas most of us would be more like, man sucks to live somewhere that you have to be happy to delete a historical phrase to keep the press and government from charging you with terrorism in effect, but you have to do what you can to get by I guess.  :-\
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on October 20, 2019, 01:09:10 AM
I've never been more glad to be ignorant of something.

Ditto.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Huw the Poo on October 20, 2019, 01:59:00 AM
As a side note, I doubt anybody would even notice that the phrase is missing from CK3 if PDX hadn't announced it.

We agree on this much, at least.  This is what happens when tabloid trash like RPS go on their little crusades.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 20, 2019, 08:07:19 AM
If they hadn't mentioned it, then they couldn't signal their virtue for overtly dropping it.  ::)

I'm willing in principle, as previously noted, to be sympathetic to Pdox for being in a crazy situation not of their making, and trying to get through it without endangering their business. I just don't like the situation.


Meanwhile, seems like this means it's about time for me to finally consider starting a CK2 campaign now that the game is feature complete.  >:D
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Staggerwing on October 20, 2019, 08:50:05 AM
Maybe you guys can start an R&P thread where you can kick this Veus Volt thing around until the pros and cons are all waving pitchforks and frothing at the mouth.

Then we can get back to discussing gameplay here.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on October 20, 2019, 09:07:58 AM
Maybe you guys can start an R&P thread where you can kick this Veus Volt thing around until the pros and cons are all waving pitchforks and frothing at the mouth.

Then we can get back to discussing gameplay here.

+1 to this.

There is a positive though, this means that CKII's modding community will be able to develop their mods even more so, as there is no longer a concern of future DLC.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Ian C on October 20, 2019, 09:14:01 AM
It appears that 'Deus Vult' may be the least of Paradox' problems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/disturbing-information-on-how-paradox-treats-its-employees-and-their-games.1260621/
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: ArizonaTank on October 20, 2019, 11:27:37 AM
I don't have a problem with Prdx leaving something out to avoid controversy.

I always view games as "historicalish" anyway. Games can have some good history lessons. However a game, by nature always presents flawed history. 

If I really want to learn the history, I'll read a bunch of books, some primary sources, and maybe take a course. 

What I really care about in CKIII is that it is a good game that pulls me into its world...with or without Deus Vult.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on October 20, 2019, 11:48:18 AM
It appears that 'Deus Vult' may be the least of Paradox' problems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/disturbing-information-on-how-paradox-treats-its-employees-and-their-games.1260621/

Wow, those Glassdoor reviews are pretty damning...

EDIT - It looks like the thread got deleted by PDX mods, unsurprisingly.  Here's a link to the glassdoor reviews, for those interested: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Paradox-Interactive-Reviews-E1008028.htm
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 20, 2019, 12:48:48 PM
Well yes, I kind of regard this on P'dox's side as leaving off swastikas for European sales of HOI games. It doesn't affect the gameplay; whereas including them would get them into legal trouble and/or hurt their bottom line.

Speaking of mods, I also want to check in on the epic Dark Ages mod ("When the World Stopped Making Sense" or something like that), which was originally designed to segue into the earliest vanilla date, but which got thrown off development track by the release of Holy Fury (and its related non-DLC updates, too.)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Yskonyn on October 20, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
It appears that 'Deus Vult' may be the least of Paradox' problems: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/disturbing-information-on-how-paradox-treats-its-employees-and-their-games.1260621/

Wow, those Glassdoor reviews are pretty damning...

EDIT - It looks like the thread got deleted by PDX mods, unsurprisingly.  Here's a link to the glassdoor reviews, for those interested: https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Paradox-Interactive-Reviews-E1008028.htm

Not to defend Pdox, but the problem with media like glassdoor is that it provides no context. Sure, the people who post there are without doubt writing ‘their truth’, but we also know discontent people are much more likely to write reviews than content people.
Of course, if the things described are in fact problems rooted firmly within the company that is bad news indeed, but I would personally be very careful to use a medium like glassdoor to come to conclusions about a company as a whole.

But we’re digressing.

I am looking forward to CK3 even though I am also in the camp of people who have thrown money at CK2 like there is no tomorrow, but have yet to play a full campaign. :)
The human nature is a weird thing.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: ArizonaTank on October 20, 2019, 01:14:17 PM
I am looking forward to CK3 even though I am also in the camp of people who have thrown money at CK2 like there is no tomorrow, but have yet to play a full campaign. :)
The human nature is a weird thing.

How true!

I just plunked down $14 this morning to get some of the CK2 DLC on sale, while I have had the game for years and have never gotten past 2 or 3 rulers.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Moreb on October 20, 2019, 01:49:13 PM
Lol. RPS. I remember that site. Vaguely.

Just add it to the ever expanding list of things that gets special snowflakes triggered. Is anyone really surprised? It's always a great idea to let the most fringe people dictate the status quo.  ::) Up next in a expose in RPS, the originator of the most vile of internet hatreds....
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/0925803c187df564f93a6b09ae475ff5/tenor.gif?itemid=13073246)

 Sheep get led.

p.s.
If you're bothered by followup comments to the op, maybe it's best to comment on the sections that are of interest to you?
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 20, 2019, 04:21:55 PM
Well, apparently you can create your own hideous eugenics program and design your own hideous form of religion perhaps including it! as long as you don't use Deus Vult as a slogan cough

...not that I'm interested in such things, but the previewer seemed to think it was important. So, yay?

Honestly, not much about the posted details made me interested in a game upgrade, other than the UI being cleaned up. Like, y'know, in a good update overhaul.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Moreb on October 20, 2019, 07:13:43 PM
Well, apparently you can create your own hideous eugenics program and design your own hideous form of religion perhaps including it! as long as you don't use Deus Vult as a slogan cough

...not that I'm interested in such things, but the previewer seemed to think it was important. So, yay?

Indeed. It's all just so predictable. Manufactured outrage by those that consider their own selves to be the curators of proper individual thought. Whatever a company decides to do while risking their own capital in the process is certainly their business. But leave it to RPS to dictate their outrage de jour when given the opportunity. Comment to the contrary on their site and be set upon by a 37th Level Woker with their Sword of Hypocrisy and enchanted Shield of Echo Chamber. I tire of the modern day Puritans and their ever invasive, biased, selective, and often times hyperbolic, creep into all things, casual or otherwise.

Hopefully Paradox will put their best game forward and we can all choose to be offended or not. Most importantly, hopefully they can produce a game that doesn't need a ton of dlc's to make it well-rounded and one that has intuitive UI's that won't rely on modders to clarify and organize the information.

 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on October 20, 2019, 11:36:20 PM
Comment to the contrary on their site and be set upon by a 37th Level Woker with their Sword of Hypocrisy and enchanted Shield of Echo Chamber.

Maybe I'm "getting too old" now but I have no idea what this means.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 21, 2019, 11:41:00 AM
I am fluent in Wokesterism.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 21, 2019, 12:25:25 PM
Honestly, not much about the posted details made me interested in a game upgrade, other than the UI being cleaned up. Like, y'know, in a good update overhaul.

Well, my main point (aside from irony) was this: and I think maybe this ambivalence is reflected in our focus on the part that doesn't matter at all for gameplay?

Is anyone actually excited to pay for (the beginning of) a whole new game on the same system, for the UI revisions?

...for the increase in grotesqueries?

...for combat-buff characters (distinct from combat-buff leader characters)?

...for any or all of that combined?

Uhhhh, hey, coming up next, some exciting announcements about how Paradox will adjust their political correctness in the game! -- really? That's what the next article is going to be about, to promote the upcoming game??

Completely aside from specific socio-political issues involved in this type of thing being a focus, to me this sounds like there's not much information about the game yet, worth marketing the new game on.


Imagine the difference if the announcement had been DARK KINGS: Paradox takes the CK2 engine with its updates through Holy Fury, and makes an official game covering the end of the Roman Empire to the starting period of CK2, with an eye toward allowing a smooth (as possible) game from AD 350ish, to the end of CK2 at least (and thence into EU4 as far as remains possible).

Would we not be all going HECK YEAH, FINALLY, and celebrating? -- and then rolling our eyes briefly at the p.c. foofaraw before going back to the celebration? Even those of us who didn't care about playing the engine through that time period, at least the game's existence would be clearly reasonable. The p.c. marketing would be at most a distraction, not the main topic in lieu of anything else interesting going on.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Moreb on October 21, 2019, 07:29:53 PM
I can't disagree with any of your post Jason. You certainly have a knack of seeing the larger picture. Fortunately for all parties, there are many actual game sites that don't constantly push an agenda. I'll await their coverage on what may be a good game, even if just another incremental focus. I'd be ready to preorder something as grand as your example if only Paradox could allow themselves to break away from their current, and possibly too safe, path.

I think Paradox will have an uphill battle as most of the concern by players is the bare bones releases and the seemingly lack of desire to repurchase dlc's. I'd say they are at least half of the comments I have read on the various sites. Time will tell if this is just CK 2.5.


Hanging up my pitchfork.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: FlickJax on October 22, 2019, 03:14:30 AM
I have CKII but never got into it, felt like i wasn't doing anything and the game was playing itself... is it my lack of patience?
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 22, 2019, 06:50:14 AM
Me too but I am willing to try it again. And again.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: OJsDad on October 22, 2019, 08:27:02 PM
JP, when I was reading your last post, the thought occurred to me that, perhaps, due to the current PC environment, that Paradox has chosen not to do Victoria 3. 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 23, 2019, 06:36:13 AM
 :timeout: :wow:

Man, that hadn't even occurred to me, OJD! Makes some sense, though!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 23, 2019, 07:47:42 AM
There's an announcement trailer. Was that upthread somewhere...??



No gameplay or details, other than the main theme is back!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Martok on October 30, 2019, 12:12:47 AM
I have no intention of getting this game, unless maybe a decade from now when there's a "complete" version on sale for cheap.  Even setting aside everything else (which is a lot), CK2's ridiculous DLC bloat, combined with my experience with Stellaris, has alone made me wary of Paradox games. 

They come up with great concepts, but the way they evolve and develop their games after release has come to leave a pretty sour taste in my mouth.  I know I'm not supposed to complain about game companies that actually continue to support their titles after launch, but IMO Paradox's model for doing so sucks big donkey balls. 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: JasonPratt on October 30, 2019, 07:14:39 AM
This guy has collected news up to this point into a 10 list. Topical intro ends at around 1 minute, if you want to skip ahead.



Short version:

DLC won't entirely repeat (though obviously some of it will like China mechanics eventually); the most popular DLC and their related patch functions will start off already incorporated.

Map is huge and deep, with baronies now manageable on map. Barons will still not be playable characters however.

Earliest start dates won't be included (no Charlemagne period), but a Viking invasion date will be.

Way of Life DLC will be included in effect, but expanded upon with new UI. Stress will be introduced as a factor for example (if characters act against their traits -- this applies to npcs as well as to player characters.)

Espionage upgraded.

Dynasties will be upgraded, such as having houses within the dynasties which don't necessarily get along (i.e. War of the Roses, but no such civil wars slated at launch yet).

The religion designer is obviously meant to recreate things like Henry 8th and the Anglo-Catholic Church. No overt supernaturalism will be included in the launch (so if your character is a witch there will be events but not like spawning the antichrist to lead an army of undead and demons. ;) )

The Muslim political system will be revamped to be less like Christian/pagan feudalism and more Middle-Eastern in structure.

Claim fabrication is being reworked to make it smoother and more realistic, and (hopefully?) can or will be integrated into the espionage system.

Combat is being revised for more tactical realism (plus knight characters as previously noted). Strategic quality-of-life changes will also be made, such as how pieces of an army travel to gather at a forming-up-point on the map.


It's a sober and cautious but optimistic overview by someone who cares about past and future game mechanics.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: OJsDad on October 30, 2019, 04:26:17 PM
I have no intention of getting this game, unless maybe a decade from now when there's a "complete" version on sale for cheap.  Even setting aside everything else (which is a lot), CK2's ridiculous DLC bloat, combined with my experience with Stellaris, has alone made me wary of Paradox games. 

They come up with great concepts, but the way they evolve and develop their games after release has come to leave a pretty sour taste in my mouth.  I know I'm not supposed to complain about game companies that actually continue to support their titles after launch, but IMO Paradox's model for doing so sucks big donkey balls.

Can't disagree with that Martok. I'm pisses how much they screwed up stellaris sectors.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: -budd- on October 30, 2019, 08:44:11 PM
Like others i own most of CK2, but haven't been able to get into it. It always looks cool when other people are playing it, but no joy for me so far. When watching other people play it just seems like some cool gaming stories are being told, just not when I play.

In fact I own a few paradox games, HOI 1,3,4 and Vicky 2, Steel Division 1, CK 2 and it's the same story with all of them. Maybe I should take a hint. I'm defiantly done with HOI and Steel Division but might try again with Vicky and CK 2.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Barthheart on October 31, 2019, 06:05:57 AM
All this talk of CKII got me playing again.

This time started as the Petty king of Wessex in England. 150 years later I'm now the King of England, Wessex, and Wales... although I only control the lower half of England proper. All the other petty Kings had themselves devoured by Denmark! So now I'm plotting how to get that land back but the King of Denmark can call on 25,000+ troops with vassals and allies to my 8,000+... not a fair fight at all.
Just participated in a successful Crusade against the Muslim control of Aquitaine which netted me $3000 coins and 2 artifacts. The money will go towards new towns and mercenaries when the fight with Denmark comes..... sooon…  :knuppel2:

It's all what you make of the game. You need to set goals and then scheme and plot and attack to achieve them. You need to watch what is happening to your neighbors so you can profit from their misfortune or help them out to gain their favour. You definitely cannot sit and wait for things to happen because they will but not how you want.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on October 31, 2019, 06:47:27 AM
Like real life!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Barthheart on October 31, 2019, 06:57:43 AM
Exactly!  :bd:
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: FlickJax on October 31, 2019, 09:13:10 AM
More patience than me....
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: FlickJax on January 16, 2020, 04:05:00 AM
https://www.strategygamer.com/articles/crusader-kings-3-release-date/
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Martok on January 17, 2020, 03:26:38 AM
I look forward to purchasing it in 10 years, when the game is fully patched, and I can choose which DLC I want to get. 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: FlickJax on January 17, 2020, 03:39:23 AM
I look forward to purchasing it in 10 years, when the game is fully patched, and I can choose which DLC I want to get.

Which of the 50 DLCs you want to buy ;)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Martok on January 17, 2020, 03:50:02 AM
It's adorable you think there will only be 50.  :P 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Anguille on January 17, 2020, 05:31:26 AM
I am mostly looking for the Robin Hood and Maid Marian Ultimate Portrait Pack....
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Martok on January 17, 2020, 03:47:17 PM
 :2funny:

Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: steve58 on May 14, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
Release date announced (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2020/05/14/crusader-kings-3-release-date-announced/): September 1 for ~$50.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on May 21, 2020, 12:27:37 PM
I look forward to purchasing it in 10 years, when the game is fully patched, and I can choose which DLC I want to get.

Most of the of the DLC features in II are implemented in III's release. However, I am with Martok on this. I haven't gotten the mileage out of CK II as I should, because at the time my Older PC was (when I was a 46) had problems with some features, but that was easily tweaked in settings or in the config.ini file (?) My new machine is more than capable.

That said, a lot of my problem was and I hope to the gods they don't do this with III, is the DLC spread. They seem to have slowed their roll with HOI IV, and Imperator a bit. They really need to make sure this launch is good. Period. 

Price tag isn't bad, though. However, I am patient.  Shadow Empire is soon.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: steve58 on May 21, 2020, 01:43:01 PM
I look forward to purchasing it in 10 years, when the game is fully patched, and I can choose which DLC I want to get.

Most of the of the DLC features in II are implemented in III's release. However, I am with Martok on this. I haven't gotten the mileage out of CK II as I should, because at the time my Older PC was (when I was a 46) had problems with some features, but that was easily tweaked in settings or in the config.ini file (?) My new machine is more than capable.

That said, a lot of my problem was and I hope to the gods they don't do this with III, is the DLC spread. They seem to have slowed their roll with HOI IV, and Imperator a bit. They really need to make sure this launch is good. Period. 

Price tag isn't bad, though. However, I am patient.  Shadow Empire is soon.

fyi: just saw it for $44.49 (pre-order) at Greenmangaming (https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/crusader-kings-iii-pc/).

Personally, I'm going to give this one a pass.  I never play CKII, though I still pick up any of the occasional DLC freebies.  Maybe one day after CKXX comes out...
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CptHowdy on May 21, 2020, 02:17:24 PM
Won't be getting this either. Have eu4, ck2, hoi4 and Stellaris with a bunch of dlc for each of them. More gaming content than I'll ever get through in what's left of my life.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 21, 2020, 02:20:00 PM
I look forward to purchasing it in 10 years, when the game is fully patched, and I can choose which DLC I want to get.

Most of the of the DLC features in II are implemented in III's release. However, I am with Martok on this. I haven't gotten the mileage out of CK II as I should, because at the time my Older PC was (when I was a 46) had problems with some features, but that was easily tweaked in settings or in the config.ini file (?) My new machine is more than capable.

That said, a lot of my problem was and I hope to the gods they don't do this with III, is the DLC spread. They seem to have slowed their roll with HOI IV, and Imperator a bit. They really need to make sure this launch is good. Period. 

Price tag isn't bad, though. However, I am patient.  Shadow Empire is soon.

fyi: just saw it for $44.49 (pre-order) at Greenmangaming (https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/crusader-kings-iii-pc/).

Personally, I'm going to give this one a pass.  I never play CKII, though I still pick up any of the occasional DLC freebies.  Maybe one day after CKXX comes out...

Just FYI for people with game pass subscription, it will be part of that so no need to purchase elsewhere if you have it...of course if you don't, then greenman does seems like the only place with a discount on the pre order so far...
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Toonces on May 21, 2020, 06:54:01 PM
I've put a ton of hours into CK2 and still don't entirely understand it.  Having said that, I watched a preview video on RPS the other day and I'm not feeling the love for a day 1 purchase.  Maybe I'm a bit jaded, kinda like Bannerlord....I need them to show me the money before I pull the trigger.  CK2 is pretty solid; I'm not sure how much more it can be pushed.

Impressions are mandatory before committing on this one for ole Toonces.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: nelmsm on May 22, 2020, 09:19:12 PM
Need to figure out CK2 before I'll pull the trigger on CK3
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Martok on May 22, 2020, 10:59:00 PM
I've put a ton of hours into CK2 and still don't entirely understand it.  Having said that, I watched a preview video on RPS the other day and I'm not feeling the love for a day 1 purchase.  Maybe I'm a bit jaded, kinda like Bannerlord....I need them to show me the money before I pull the trigger.  CK2 is pretty solid; I'm not sure how much more it can be pushed.

Impressions are mandatory before committing on this one for ole Toonces.

To be fair, I don't get the impression Paradox is actually trying to "push" anything with CK3.  Instead, rather, I think they're simply trying to make a better CK2 -- the same game, essentially, just more accessible easier to learn.  I realize the term "more accessible" is almost a dirty word for strategy gamers, but CK2 is already sufficiently byzantine (no pun intended) that it truly could benefit from a revamped UI and an actual decent tutorial. 




Need to figure out CK2 before I'll pull the trigger on CK3

Also, this. 

Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Yskonyn on May 22, 2020, 11:51:41 PM
Not if CK3 makes learning the game easier.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on May 26, 2020, 01:45:35 PM
Not if CK3 makes learning the game easier.

Good point.  O0

Never thought of that.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Nefaro on August 30, 2020, 06:06:03 PM
Against hesitancy and initial wariness, I pre-ordered.

That's something I rarely do these days.

Will let you know if I break something.   <:-)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2020, 07:01:27 PM
NICE
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 31, 2020, 04:37:59 AM
pre ordered as well....hoping this one clicks with me more, it’s a game i should love but i struggle with these paradox games...let this be the one:)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Pete Dero on August 31, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
A bunch of reviews :

https://www.bluesnews.com/s/214401/crusader-kings-iii-reviews (click for the reviews links)

    Crusader Kings III Review - Attack of the Fanboy.
    Crusader Kings 3 Review - In the company of kings - GameRevolution.
    Crusader Kings 3 Review - TheGamer.
    Crusader Kings 3 Review - GameSpot.
    Crusader Kings III PC Review - GameWatcher.
    Crusader Kings III review - GodisaGeek.com.
    Crusader Kings 3 Review - IGN.
    Crusader Kings III: The Kotaku Review.
    Crusader Kings 3 review - Rock Paper Shotgun.
    Crusader Kings 3 review - PC Gamer.
    Crusader Kings 3 review – ‘next gen’ has arrived - PCGamesN.
    Crusader Kings III Review: A Worthy Heir - Screen Rant.
    Crusader Kings 3 review: Your noble story eternally unfolding - Shacknews.
    Crusader Kings III Review – TheSixthAxis.
    Crusader Kings 3 Review - Trusted Reviews.
    Crusader Kings 3 review: Spy, seduce and murder your way to victory in the best grand strategy game yet - VG247.
    'Crusader Kings III' Is a World of Complexity That Feels Powerfully Alive - Vice.
    Crusader Kings III Review – Game of Endless Thrones - Wccftech.


Most are very positive.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 31, 2020, 12:04:16 PM
Looks like a lot of high scores, at least the ones I have read...promising.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on August 31, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Dammit all to Hell. I see Fanatical has it for 43.00. Anyone know of any lower price out there?
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Pete Dero on August 31, 2020, 12:13:52 PM
Dammit all to Hell. I see Fanatical has it for 43.00. Anyone know of any lower price out there?

https://www.wingamestore.com/product/11676/Crusader-Kings-III/  should be $39.95        (but I can't check it from inside the EU)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on August 31, 2020, 12:30:27 PM
 <:-)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 31, 2020, 12:38:21 PM
And comes with microsoft game pass subscription, which I think you can get for $1 the first month and then like $5 for each month after that.  They have a decent vault of games (i.e. flight sim, wastelands 3, etc.) where $5 makes it very much worth it to me.  Unfortunately, I pre ordered crusader kings before I realized it was coming to game pass so didn't help me this time, oh well.  Even without it, has been worth it for me.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on August 31, 2020, 01:20:58 PM
Just to counter-balance the hype a little bit...

Quote
Still, the first point of contention is Paradox’s resolution to include only two start dates: 867 AD and 1066 AD. The former is what The Old Gods players would be familiar with, and the latter, of course, is the Norman Invasion start date. Now, you could choose the “interesting” rulers as outlined via Crusader Kings III‘s selection screen, or you could opt to pick an existing leader from these scenarios.

What’s unfortunate about this, due to the sheer lack of other dates, is that you’ll likely never see some historical moments play out. Likewise, you can’t set the dates back and forth per month or year. For instance, if you wanted to start with El Cid as a landed noble or with a resurgent Byzantine Empire outlined in the Alexiad, then you’d need to make the right moves to ensure those moments would come to fruition (if at all). Furthermore, you could forget the notion of Richard the Lionheart battling Saladin in the Holy Land, or any important figure from the east in later years (many personages from the east don’t even show up as “interesting picks” for playthroughs).

I do have to say this is thoroughly disappointing.  Not a show stopper by any means, but my inner history nerd is crying at this paragraph.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on August 31, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
So I'm guessing forget trying to do Philip The Fair (1314 ) of which the events of his reign were the inspiration for Game Of Thrones and that was inspired by a series of books by Maurice Druon called The Accursed Kings or even Henry II  "Lion in Winter" (1187) or even Robert The Bruce.

Got it. 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: steve58 on August 31, 2020, 02:47:32 PM
Dammit all to Hell. I see Fanatical has it for 43.00. Anyone know of any lower price out there?

(http://media.tenor.com/images/bb6d75d3ea0418e37490f8a893ef6558/tenor.gif)

....Betty and Alf say "Wait 18-24 months and you will save 33 fracking dollars"
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on August 31, 2020, 02:55:31 PM
^Sage advice. HAHAHA ALF!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: hellfish6 on August 31, 2020, 03:02:16 PM

I do have to say this is thoroughly disappointing.  Not a show stopper by any means, but my inner history nerd is crying at this paragraph.

Inevitably anything you want, and lots of stuff you don't, will become available later for one of the many DLCs.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: CJReich46 on September 01, 2020, 10:36:58 AM
It's out!

So first impressions, etc.

sigh. I might get it Friday or test drive it on Microsoft Game Pass.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 01, 2020, 10:56:26 AM
Sadly work in the way, so hopefully get some play tonight.  Small download, roughly 1.8 GBs.  I did just go in and tried to start a game, unless my memory is wrong, the speed at which the game starts seems vastly better then past Paradox games.  I realize it depends on your equipment, but impressed me since I recall in the past watching all those loading screens....seemed like just a few seconds on this.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: jamus34 on September 01, 2020, 11:17:06 AM
Sadly work in the way, so hopefully get some play tonight.  Small download, roughly 1.8 GBs.  I did just go in and tried to start a game, unless my memory is wrong, the speed at which the game starts seems vastly better then past Paradox games.  I realize it depends on your equipment, but impressed me since I recall in the past watching all those loading screens....seemed like just a few seconds on this.

Paradox games always had a huge amount of pre-caching going on. That said if you exit and reload the game later (without resetting your pc) it loads a ton quicker.

I am also interested on first impressions of this. Probably will wait until it hits the 60% or deeper discount but overall I love pdox games, warts and all.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 01, 2020, 11:22:14 AM
Sadly work in the way, so hopefully get some play tonight.  Small download, roughly 1.8 GBs.  I did just go in and tried to start a game, unless my memory is wrong, the speed at which the game starts seems vastly better then past Paradox games.  I realize it depends on your equipment, but impressed me since I recall in the past watching all those loading screens....seemed like just a few seconds on this.

Paradox games always had a huge amount of pre-caching going on. That said if you exit and reload the game later (without resetting your pc) it loads a ton quicker.

I am also interested on first impressions of this. Probably will wait until it hits the 60% or deeper discount but overall I love pdox games, warts and all.

Yep, but this was on the very first time and don't recall even with caching being this fast.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: jamus34 on September 01, 2020, 11:35:54 AM
I got you Grim. It’s actually interesting, I see they are still running the Clauswitz engine.

I wonder if they reduced the inputs or if this a benefit of engine optimization.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Myrmidon on September 01, 2020, 03:00:55 PM
Anxious to hear the thoughts of everyone as well.  I'm sure this has been mentioned in previous pages of this thread; of which the beer drinking me is currently too lazy to read at this moment; but I really am curious what can be improved upon with a new release that would rival CK2 and all it's DLCs.  At this point, it's a masterpiece, which is great at what it does, and although I have had tons of fun with it, I've barely scratched the surface.  I dread going through the inevitable process of bug squashing and DLC releases to get to a game that I'm already able to play, unless something significantly new is brought to the table.

But maybe if I were a little less lazy, I would have read all the articles and reviews that potentially debunk my current frame of mind.  Maybe it's people like me that are the reason that good journalism is hard to find, that American politics are more polarized than ever. 

But then I can play a game of CK2, and realize that people have been as lame as me for hundreds of years, and be entertained by it. 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on September 01, 2020, 03:14:04 PM
Anxious to hear the thoughts of everyone as well.  I'm sure this has been mentioned in previous pages of this thread; of which the beer drinking me is currently too lazy to read at this moment; but I really am curious what can be improved upon with a new release that would rival CK2 and all it's DLCs.  At this point, it's a masterpiece, which is great at what it does, and although I have had tons of fun with it, I've barely scratched the surface.  I dread going through the inevitable process of bug squashing and DLC releases to get to a game that I'm already able to play, unless something significantly new is brought to the table.

But maybe if I were a little less lazy, I would have read all the articles and reviews that potentially debunk my current frame of mind.  Maybe it's people like me that are the reason that good journalism is hard to find, that American politics are more polarized than ever. 

But then I can play a game of CK2, and realize that people have been as lame as me for hundreds of years, and be entertained by it.

I've got several hundred hours in CK2 and it's definitely up there for my all-time favorite strategy-RPGs.  However, I will say that a sequel has been long overdue.  A huge amount of major mechanics and features in the current version of CK2 were quite obviously stapled onto a system that wasn't designed with them in mind.  What excites me the most about Crusader Kings 3 is how they took all the great ideas from 8 years of development, and redesigned the base game system around those ideas.

A good example is the the Way of Life DLC, a solid system in CK2 that adds nice flavor without breaking game balance, but was obviously an afterthought to the core game system.  The Lifestyle mechanics in CK3 seem to be an upgrade over that in every way possible.  Same with Favors versus Hooks - I don't recall more than a half-dozen times I used favors to do anything more interesting than forcing my council members to vote with me on a particular issue before I abolished council authority.  The "Hooks" system in CK3 looks so much more flexible and useful.  If the game holds up overall, and they add more start dates in DLCs, I don't see myself ever going back to CK2.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: hellfish6 on September 01, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
I fired it up for about five minutes. I immediately missed the ability to make my own character. Hopefully I'll have more time later this week.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Ian C on September 02, 2020, 05:56:42 AM
What are the new features apart from the UI and graphics?
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Yskonyn on September 02, 2020, 08:23:20 AM
What are the new features apart from the UI and graphics?

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Crusader_Kings_III#Dev_diaries
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Sir Slash on September 02, 2020, 10:21:36 AM
I've never played any of the Crusader Kings, is this the one to begin with? I have played EU 1 & 2. So how's this game different?










Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Myrmidon on September 02, 2020, 05:00:31 PM
I've never played any of the Crusader Kings, is this the one to begin with? I have played EU 1 & 2. So how's this game different?

Challenging to reply in brief, but basically, whereas the EU games focus on the Early Modern era for Europe and beyond, with the rise of nation states, The CK games focus on the dynastic states that dominated in the era beforehand. 

Your focus is on your dynasty, and making sure it continues.  Your "ruler" is an actual person, with traits, and interactions with all the other persons around him.  You rule as a Count, Duke, or King (or equivalents in Middle Eastern cultures).  While you can conquer and expand said domain, much of the drama focuses around the medieval politics, which gets pretty juicy, so it ends up being a RPG as well.  The historical middle ages and high middle ages were full of incredible drama, and this game delivers the same feel. 

It appears that CK3 delivers more easy to use UI, and reviews have it being easier to learn for newcomers.  If you're looking to jump in, this may be the time. 

Edit: Fixed my quote box... should have previewed first....









Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: al_infierno on September 02, 2020, 05:22:43 PM
If you have any interest in the period at all (mainly on the earlier side, since there's no start date later than 1066) I'd say go for it.  The UI is still a bit wonky and takes getting used to, but I'd agree that the basic gameflow is a lot more obvious than in CK2, not to mention a proper tutorial that takes you through the game and teaches you the UI. 

Gameflow is quite different than EU.  It's important to remember that the game is effectively an RPG with a grand strategy layer, like Myrm pointed out.  Your main activity isn't planning conquests, but making moves to advance your character and your dynasty.  Conquests and map painting are more of a secondary activity compared to EU, even with a Martial-focused ruler.

However, I'll say that the grand strategy aspects (and especially combat) seem to be improved across the board compared to the wack-a-mole grindfest from CK2.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2020, 07:00:51 PM
Many fine improvements.

It will take a little, getting used to the way the UI pop-ups work, but I simply adjusted the two Window Lock sliders in the settings to a cozy spot and it's fine.  Tons of relevant info in those pop-ups so I used them often.

I have only a few suggestions for UI improvements, but it's a minor thing considering how long my gaming stretches have been.  Don't even notice the time, or lack of sleep, go by.  Mister sandman can suck it.  :cowboy:    I don't recall the last time I got sucked into such long sessions.  Battletech has probably been the closest in recent years.

There's definitely extra learning curve.  Even for those familiar with CK2.  I mean.. if you prefer to dig into all the nooks and crannies of the mechanics like I do.  Some people don't care so much.

Most everything was improved some way.  There are more checks on quick blobbing, but they're not hard limits for the most part.  It gets a 'Foak-yayah!' from me after a bit under 20 hours.  Been taking some beatings and lovin' it.  Just makes me wanna come back for the challenge in expanding everything. 

Being how it is on release, I only see good things in the future.   :clap:   If they don't try to jam too much junk into the gears past a certain point, as happened with CK2.



Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Myrmidon on September 02, 2020, 07:09:35 PM
Oh no.... must.... resist....  all those CK2 DLCs would be for naught....
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on September 02, 2020, 07:11:49 PM
^That is my problem. Bought the whole CK2 library (almost) and never got past the tutorials :/
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Sir Slash on September 02, 2020, 08:48:17 PM
Thanks guys. It looks complicated. True or no?
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Nefaro on September 02, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Thanks guys. It looks complicated. True or no?

Yes.  That's big part of the enjoyment I get, however.  Big ass complicated sandbox of warlords, incest, raiding, scheming, conquest, marriage, and murder.  Sometimes those last two are one and the same.   ;)

I had enough experience in CK2 to understand the majority of the terminology and how those concepts work in CK3.  I still spent probably an hour digging deep into all the very helpful tooltips-within-tooltips on my first start.  Just to get a deeper knowledge of the new version.  You can generally do that as you play, but I wanted a full view to start on.  It has a tutorial in Noobland (Ireland) but I didn't bother.  Because I'm a tooltip addict who needs his fix.

I've been surprised at how all the little changes and various additions have improved the gameplay.  I went in expecting CK2's breakable mechanics still being strewn throughout, but they've tightened it up.  Yet kept it fun.  More so, I'd say.  Many facets adjusted for the better.  Definitely a welcome evolution, and the additions are great.

I'd gush on about the all the little details I've been noticing in the gameplay, but that would require me to take pages of notes.  Failed my journalist review motivation check.   :nerd:

 
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: fran on September 03, 2020, 01:47:20 AM
Quote
Because I'm a tooltip addict who needs his fix.

Good to know that the tooltips now works seamlessly. In CK2 that was lacking and often just lead them more questions. I often had to alt tab and google to find out certain info.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Nefaro on September 03, 2020, 02:16:39 PM
Thanks guys. It looks complicated. True or no?

Explanation of the basics:

Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: nelmsm on September 03, 2020, 05:56:13 PM
I can't really tell you why but I find myself enjoying and understanding this version more
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Yskonyn on September 03, 2020, 10:59:17 PM
The game has a lot more personality with the full character models.
You can even see things are wrong from the way they look at you.
It causes me to be much more attached to the people in my playthrough than I was in CK2.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 29, 2020, 03:28:45 AM
Wow...pretty large patch dropped today, not sure I have ever seen a list this long....it might take me the entire day just to read the notes:)  I couldn't even post the patch notes here as it exceeded the max post length.

Link to the release notes

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ck3-dev-diary-42-1-1-patch-notes.1428193/

Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: fran on September 29, 2020, 10:46:31 PM
Wow...pretty large patch dropped today, not sure I have ever seen a list this long....it might take me the entire day just to read the notes:)  I couldn't even post the patch notes here as it exceeded the max post length.

Link to the release notes

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ck3-dev-diary-42-1-1-patch-notes.1428193/

Here is a video summary on the patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZD5XUzZElM&ab_channel=ItalianSpartacus






Now happy that I'm at the point of starting a new game.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 30, 2020, 05:35:39 AM
Wow...pretty large patch dropped today, not sure I have ever seen a list this long....it might take me the entire day just to read the notes:)  I couldn't even post the patch notes here as it exceeded the max post length.

Link to the release notes

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/ck3-dev-diary-42-1-1-patch-notes.1428193/

Here is a video summary on the patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZD5XUzZElM&ab_channel=ItalianSpartacus






Now happy that I'm at the point of starting a new game.

I am going to let this game "cook" a little more before I get serious with it.  Just seems like too many things changing or need tweaking....although I fully realize that is pretty normal throughout the life of a Paradox game.  It's feeling like a good winter game to get into:)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: t4rget on October 15, 2020, 04:26:46 PM
Thanks guys. It looks complicated. True or no?

I don't know if you bought it since but ...

Is the game complicated? yes but very accessible. Just place the cursor on blue words. The game is easy to play, hard to master due to the high number of factors.
Do you need to be an expert in medieval stuff? No, units are simple to understand.


It is a game you'll discover and master on the long run.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: MOS:96B2P on November 24, 2020, 02:58:26 PM
CK 3 is on sale at Steam for 20% off.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 24, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
CK 3 is on sale at Steam for 20% off.

Might want to check greenmangaming too, for me it is 33% off.....I already own it but maybe useful for someone else.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on November 24, 2020, 04:50:27 PM
Dammit I can’t handle all the incoming sales!!
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: WallysWorld on November 24, 2020, 09:28:25 PM
33% off at Green Man Gaming:  Crusader Kings III (https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/crusader-kings-iii-pc/)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: fran on November 24, 2020, 09:54:43 PM
Quote
Thanks guys. It looks complicated. True or no?


This is a game that keeps giving... agree with the statement of easy to play, and hard to master.

If you are starting out select an Easy starting point nation. The tooltips are superb, allowing you to drill down into any topic. Start out with your own small goals,

It is often the unintentional outcomes that provide the most enjoyment (and frustration). Not everything will go to plan (succession will create chaos), especially when you start out and is still busy learning the game. And if you are interested in a specific topic there are Youtube videos that will explain it.

If everything goes to plan Paradox will be supporting the game for a number of years, and it will mature. CK2 had an 8-year run, unheard of with most games.







Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Pete Dero on November 25, 2020, 01:51:09 AM
33% off at Green Man Gaming:  Crusader Kings III (https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/crusader-kings-iii-pc/)

Depending on where you live this is around 5 € less : https://www.wingamestore.com/product/11676/Crusader-Kings-III/
(price in US should be the same as GMG)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 25, 2020, 04:34:40 AM
Dammit I can’t handle all the incoming sales!!

And Empire of Sin being released in about 6 days:)
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Gusington on November 25, 2020, 06:41:15 AM
 :pullhair:
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Johnnie on November 25, 2020, 08:32:43 PM
Can't get any of my Paradox games to run right now.  When I try to start one I need to first install the Paradox Launcher.  But I can't because when I try I get: "another installation is taking place and must finish," etc.  But no other installation is running.  I can't seem to find any help at Steam.  Anyone know a fix?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Pete Dero on November 26, 2020, 02:17:16 AM
Can't get any of my Paradox games to run right now.  When I try to start one I need to first install the Paradox Launcher.  But I can't because when I try I get: "another installation is taking place and must finish," etc.  But no other installation is running.  I can't seem to find any help at Steam.  Anyone know a fix?  Thanks.

If the game is the Steam version you can try 'verify file integrity'.

    Launch Steam.
    From the Library section, right-click on the game and select Properties from the menu.
    Select the Local files tab and click the Verify integrity of game files... button.
    Steam will verify the game's files - this process may take several minutes.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Johnnie on November 27, 2020, 09:27:56 PM
Thanks Pete. But no joy. Can't load either my EU IV & HOI IV as well.  Both of which used to work fine.  I guess it is a new "launcher" that is causing the problem.
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: steve58 on March 16, 2021, 03:07:06 PM
FYI:  free to play from 3/16 - 3/21

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158310/Crusader_Kings_III/
Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: fran on May 22, 2021, 08:31:48 AM
New expansion announced: The royal court

Get ready for our next Expansion, Crusader Kings III: Royal Court!

How will you rule when your subjects come to you with their complaints?
Building the grandest court in the world may please your vassals and attract interesting people, but it also gives your complaining courtiers a place to find you. Make decisions that will smooth the troubled waters in your kingdom, while impressing visitors with your collection of masterpieces and relics.

The Royal Court expansion to Crusader Kings III adds new ways to interact with the characters in your kingdom or empire, as well as major changes to the cultural system of the game, adding greater dynamism and historical fluidity.

Features of Crusader Kings III: Royal Court include:
Throne Room: A visual representation of your royal court will reflect all the accumulated majesty and prestige of your dynasty.
Hold Court: Interact with vassals and courtiers as they come to you with their problems, seeking a royal judgment.
Grandeur: Increase the quality of life at your court with fancier trappings and better food, all the better to impress your rivals and attract higher quality guests.
Inspired People: Talented artists, craftspeople and thinkers can work on new projects, adding treasures and artifacts to your court.
Hybrid Cultures: Make the most of a multicultural realm, developing a new way of life that is specifically adapted to your population and geography.
Cultural Divergence: Split from your traditional culture, adapting it into something new that better fits your aspirations.


Title: Re: Crusader Kings III - Coming 2020
Post by: Tripoli on May 22, 2021, 09:13:01 AM
And once again, Paradox has tunneled their way into my Paypal account..... ;D