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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: steve58 on December 06, 2020, 04:00:08 PM

Title: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on December 06, 2020, 04:00:08 PM
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/217315/matrix-games-announces-four-2021-releases

So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/KE_Studios/WPP/WPP_page.html)??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 06, 2020, 04:25:25 PM
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/217315/matrix-games-announces-four-2021-releases

So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/KE_Studios/WPP/WPP_page.html)??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: steve58 on December 06, 2020, 04:33:49 PM
So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/KE_Studios/WPP/WPP_page.html)??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Quote

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)

Somehow I don't think a " " would hold up in court.  "War Plan Pacific" and "Warplan Pacific" are basically identical to me.  I predict the MG version will undergo a name change.  That said, the fact that its based in the PTO definitely has my attention...

I think the Shrapnel Games version of WPP is their only title I ever bought.  A fairly enjoyable beer and pretzel game.

Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: al_infierno on December 06, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 06, 2020, 04:41:07 PM
So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/KE_Studios/WPP/WPP_page.html)??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Quote

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)

Somehow I don't think a " " would hold up in court.  "War Plan Pacific" and "Warplan Pacific" are basically identical to me.  I predict the MG version will undergo a name change.  That said, the fact that its based in the PTO definitely has my attention...

I think the Shrapnel Games version of WPP is their only title I ever bought.  A fairly enjoyable beer and pretzel game.

Don't know, but other properties have the same name...for example, the move Silent Night.  One of the versions is about the Battle of the Bulge where both sides meet at a cabin and have a truce for the night, and the other version is a good old slasher movie with Santa Claus....both have the same movie title of Silent Night.

I have no idea all the rules and such, I'll leave that to the experts, but don't think this would be the first where something named the same....although I fully understand there has to be some rules governing it.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: airboy on December 06, 2020, 04:42:57 PM
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D

I testified in Federal Court on a trademark issue that was less explicit than this one.

Normal procedure in these cases is:
1] Person who has the rights to the name, trademark, or used it first writes a letter.  Sometimes it is a "cease and desist" and other times it is just "lets work this out."
2] If step 1 does not work, then they go to court.

It seems to me that the two parties could work this out of Shrapnel Games is upset.  "Pacific" is a geographic name and cannot be trademarked or copyrighted.  I have no idea how close "WarPlan" is to generic - if it is at all.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: al_infierno on December 06, 2020, 04:59:19 PM
^ Yeah, my thought was that "war plan" seems too generic to hold up in court, unless Shrapnel specifically filed for a trademark on that term in relation to computer wargames.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: smittyohio on December 06, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D

Maybe Shrapnel can use the funds to finish 82nd Airborne.     :D  :uglystupid2: ;D :wow:
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: al_infierno on December 06, 2020, 08:05:11 PM
 :DD Yeah, that's assuming Microsoft doesn't release any new OS within the next 15 years, destroying all their hard work.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: ArizonaTank on December 06, 2020, 09:17:56 PM
The bane of most "Pacific" games in the past has usually been the AI. So it will be interesting to see how they do with that.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: smittyohio on December 07, 2020, 06:30:33 AM
:DD Yeah, that's assuming Microsoft doesn't release any new OS within the next 15 years, destroying all their hard work.

LOL, I saw that excuse last night on their forums.   What a moronic thing to blame.   
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: CJReich46 on December 07, 2020, 02:31:38 PM
I was a beta tester on Warplan. I might apply to this but I have commitments to another beta which I can't disclose.

But regarding the name to avoid confusion with War Plan Pacific, why not change or alter the name to avoid confusion. Remember all the crap EA gave Slitherine over Battlefield Academy? Or how King wanted to sue Stoic over the use of the word "Saga" for their game "The Banner Saga."  However I doubt Shrapnel has the lawyers.

Some suggestions would be simple:

Warplan: The Pacific.  Warplan: Pacific Theater  for example.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: The_Admiral on December 10, 2020, 07:50:12 PM
The bane of most "Pacific" games in the past has usually been the AI. So it will be interesting to see how they do with that.

Amen.
As would might expect, AI hates that big bunch of nothing that is the PTO. AI works so much better when put on rails - and them rails are nowhere to be seen in the vastness of ocean.
Don't get me started me on this though, we're sweating for our own game enough like that ^^
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: FarAway Sooner on December 10, 2020, 08:46:08 PM
If they really want to be sure to avoid a nasty law suit, Matrix could just call it:  Pacific, WarPlan

My sense is that most wargames struggle to vividly combine multiple arms in a way that is deeply satisfying.  They  might do the ground war well, but they typically abstract the air war in some detail and leave the naval war piece out of it.  Or they get the naval war piece right...

The Pacific, more than any other theater in WW II, had moments where each piece was remarkably important.  The roles played by land-based air, carrier air, surface ships, and submarines were more varied and nuanced than in the Atlantic, where it all came down to how everything was used against U-boats/shipping (depending on whether you're Axis or Allies).

In the Pacific, surface combat happened less often, but still figures prominently in the lore of the theater for both fleets.  Ground combat mattered, but primarily just in terms of securing air bases or potential air bases for land-based air and was typically concentrated on mighty small islands.  The only real exception to this might be the fighting in Papua/New Guinea. 

The ground combat certainly mattered to the people who were fighting it, but I've never seen any wargames that really captured the atmosphere of the land fighting in the Pacific.  Then again, maybe I'm just not getting out of the house enough?
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: The_Admiral on December 10, 2020, 10:43:57 PM
Well, my understanding from the screenshots (you can see a few on the wargamer.com https://www.wargamer.com/articles/warplan-pacific/ ) is that the war in China and in Burma will absolutely be part of the deal - which makes it all the more of a challenge. Asking an AI to be able to manage two aspects of a very, very different conflict with wildly different characteristics (to the point it feels like you need two different games) has always been quite a challenge few have beaten successfully in the past. I wish them all the luck in doing so, it's quite the endeavour indeed!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: Pete Dero on March 11, 2021, 09:19:43 AM
https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

Warplan Pacific first look
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: devoncop on March 11, 2021, 10:40:48 AM
Looks good but the Chinese and Japanese colours do need more differentiation.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: MengJiao on March 11, 2021, 11:27:00 AM
Looks good but the Chinese and Japanese colours do need more differentiation.

  No kidding.  Other than that...looks okay.  I'll probably try it eventually.  Maybe even when it first comes out.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: al_infierno on March 11, 2021, 06:21:16 PM
Looks great to me, looking forward to this one as I loved the first WarPlan.  "War in the Pacific map with an easier complexity level" sounds right up my alley.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: Sir Slash on March 11, 2021, 08:49:26 PM
I'm watching it too. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: devoncop on March 12, 2021, 02:51:19 AM
Looks great to me, looking forward to this one as I loved the first WarPlan.  "War in the Pacific map with an easier complexity level" sounds right up my alley.

I watched the stream and despite not buying Warplan Europe it really does look good. The clincher for me is proper fog of war mechanics with Warplan Europe lacked with the naval game. The Pacific game appears to have a really interesting unique approach involving codebreaking/counter intelligence  measures and spotting rules that should really ramp up the tension in the cat and mouse fleet operations in this theatre.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: devoncop on March 24, 2021, 11:00:56 AM
Matrix announced today this one releases on 29th April.... :smitten:

With WITE2 and this game Matrix are pushing some good stuff out this year.

Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: MengJiao on March 24, 2021, 02:15:01 PM
Matrix announced today this one releases on 29th April.... :smitten:

With WITE2 and this game Matrix are pushing some good stuff out this year.

Wonderful!!!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: steve58 on March 24, 2021, 02:50:37 PM
I would love for this to be a Day 1 purchase for me, but I'm gonna wait until I can use my Anniversary Coupon on it next year.  This years coupon expired unspent :( as there weren't any MG titles I wanted to pick up.  Also, and I thank you in advance, this will let you guys weed out all those nasty little bugs. :bd:
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: Johnnie on March 27, 2021, 11:10:30 PM
The Shrapnel game was, and is, an under-rated little gem. With a little tinkering with the victory conditions (available in the Shrapnel forums) it is a quick, simple and surprisingly historical simulation of the war in the Pacific theatre.  And a lot of fun.  Don't know if it is still available.  But I am happy I have a copy. 

Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: 88mmkwk on April 24, 2021, 12:15:13 PM
Strategy Gaming Dojo put out his first video of WarPlan Pacific in a "Let's Play/Tutorial" format.  He is the best in the business IMHO in making wargame vids to learn how to play a game.

https://youtu.be/M_L6W5dZZmc (https://youtu.be/M_L6W5dZZmc)

What I can't figure out is how the heck he keeps all the game rules straight in his head. :nerd:  I mean the guy is concurrently playing WitE, WitE2, WitP:AE and now WP:Pacific!  And don't even ask me where he finds the time for all this!!

In the first WP:Pac video, he is pleasantly surprised at the aggressive moves of the Japanese AI.  I'm also tracking his WitP:AE playthrough and the WP:Pac Japanese quickly goes after areas the WitP:AE AI does not... 

He has an uncanny knack for making me purchase games he plays, and it looks like this will no be exception....
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Sir Slash on April 24, 2021, 01:19:49 PM
I saw that and am intrigued by the game, especially the logistics. Could be a real winner.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: devoncop on April 24, 2021, 02:14:46 PM
That and the hidden fleet and  intel/code encryption  mechanics are pretty unique.

Very impressed.

It's just the scale and AI capability I am waiting to evaluate....Strategy gaming dojo is indeed the acid test as far as I am concerned  :bd:
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Toonces on April 24, 2021, 04:18:36 PM
I just sort of clicked through the video without sound, but from the gist of what I saw I'm really liking the looks of the game.  Very boardgamey. 

This just moved to the front of my radar.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Jarhead0331 on April 24, 2021, 04:30:49 PM
I'm play testing now. Standby for impressions. Been distracted by a bunch of stuff...trying to focus!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
Post by: MOS:96B2P on April 24, 2021, 04:49:26 PM
Strategy Gaming Dojo put out his first video of WarPlan Pacific in a "Let's Play/Tutorial" format.  He is the best in the business IMHO in making wargame vids to learn how to play a game.

https://youtu.be/M_L6W5dZZmc (https://youtu.be/M_L6W5dZZmc)

What I can't figure out is how the heck he keeps all the game rules straight in his head. :nerd:  I mean the guy is concurrently playing WitE, WitE2, WitP:AE and now WP:Pacific!  And don't even ask me where he finds the time for all this!!

In the first WP:Pac video, he is pleasantly surprised at the aggressive moves of the Japanese AI.  I'm also tracking his WitP:AE playthrough and the WP:Pac Japanese quickly goes after areas the WitP:AE AI does not... 

He has an uncanny knack for making me purchase games he plays, and it looks like this will no be exception....

I have the original Warplan set in Europe.  It's a great game and the developer is very dedicated and active on the Matrix forum.  I'm sure Warplan Pacific will also be a great game and I intend to buy it.   

Thanks for the heads up on Strategy Gaming Dojo.  He has some great videos.  I am now subscribed.  :)
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on April 29, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
...is out! $39.99 (https://www.matrixgames.com/game/warplan-pacific).

25% discount when you buy WP+WPP (https://www.matrixgames.com/bundle/warplan-europe-pacific).
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: MengJiao on April 29, 2021, 10:21:41 AM
...is out! $39.99 (https://www.matrixgames.com/game/warplan-pacific).

25% discount when you buy WP+WPP (https://www.matrixgames.com/bundle/warplan-europe-pacific).

Super!!!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on April 29, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
...is out! $39.99 (https://www.matrixgames.com/game/warplan-pacific).

25% discount when you buy WP+WPP (https://www.matrixgames.com/bundle/warplan-europe-pacific).

Super!!!

Any discount if you already own WP...?
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on April 29, 2021, 01:01:14 PM
Nothing mentioned about that that I've seen in the MG forums...
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on April 30, 2021, 08:01:01 PM
I'm just downloading it now, so hopefully I can make some sensible comments hen I've played it a bit.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on April 30, 2021, 10:16:37 PM
It looks nice, but there is an instant high learning curve. Without a tutorial I just haven't a clue what to do other than sit down and read the manual.

First impressions is that it looks quite nuanced and detailed, but not at all intuitive. Graphically it's got a nice focus on visual clarity, and is an attractive looking game. I'm sure once I've worked out what the hell I should be doing it will be an interesting game! ::)

There are 5 campaigns including a grand campaign plus one for the Sino-Soviet war and it looks quite comprehensive. It also offers multiplayer.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: CJReich46 on May 01, 2021, 06:11:09 AM
It looks nice, but there is an instant high learning curve. Without a tutorial I just haven't a clue what to do other than sit down and read the manual.

First impressions is that it looks quite nuanced and detailed, but not at all intuitive. Graphically it's got a nice focus on visual clarity, and is an attractive looking game. I'm sure once I've worked out what the hell I should be doing it will be an interesting game! ::)

There are 5 campaigns including a grand campaign plus one for the Sino-Soviet war and it looks quite comprehensive. It also offers multiplayer.

Plus if I remember when I beta tested War Plan, it is easily moddable. We had some nice graphic mods during that time.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Rayfer on May 01, 2021, 07:22:14 AM
It looks nice, but there is an instant high learning curve. Without a tutorial I just haven't a clue what to do other than sit down and read the manual.

First impressions is that it looks quite nuanced and detailed, but not at all intuitive. Graphically it's got a nice focus on visual clarity, and is an attractive looking game. I'm sure once I've worked out what the hell I should be doing it will be an interesting game! ::)

There are 5 campaigns including a grand campaign plus one for the Sino-Soviet war and it looks quite comprehensive. It also offers multiplayer.

Odd that a game like this would have no tutorials...perhaps some will pop up on YouTube, or already there?  I'll definitely be getting this some time soon, looking forward to more gameplay comments.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Pete Dero on May 01, 2021, 07:36:27 AM
Odd that a game like this would have no tutorials...perhaps some will pop up on YouTube, or already there?  I'll definitely be getting this some time soon, looking forward to more gameplay comments.

The first game Warplan has a tutorial button but when you click it, it takes you to this Youtube playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk5K-IfEIqTuKoyeCpExF7x9j6cSquj28

For Warplan Pacific you might be better off with Strategy Gaming Dojo's let's play tutorial like 88mmkwk mentioned before :  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSgMOSrhbsUZHXBhwR_N__XE35mXdki6x
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on May 01, 2021, 09:36:38 AM
...and theres also this from MG:  Warplan Pacific: Preview Tour (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5011539)
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: GaryMc on May 01, 2021, 11:09:44 AM
Odd that a game like this would have no tutorials...perhaps some will pop up on YouTube, or already there?  I'll definitely be getting this some time soon, looking forward to more gameplay comments.

The first game Warplan has a tutorial button but when you click it, it takes you to this Youtube playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk5K-IfEIqTuKoyeCpExF7x9j6cSquj28

For Warplan Pacific you might be better off with Strategy Gaming Dojo's let's play tutorial like 88mmkwk mentioned before :  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSgMOSrhbsUZHXBhwR_N__XE35mXdki6x

Maybe it's because I'm old and grumpy, but I don't consider watching over 12 hours of videos of someone else playing a game a "tutorial" in the least. 
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: devoncop on May 01, 2021, 11:42:39 AM
I actually enjoy the Strategy Gaming Dojo videos on You Tube despite being old and grumpy but if you dont..........There is a manual.... ;)
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: GaryMc on May 01, 2021, 03:22:21 PM
I don't mind the idea of the videos, it's much more "oh, if you want a tutorial, go burn a full day to watch a dozen hour long videos". 
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Hot lead and dirty talk! on May 01, 2021, 11:37:48 PM
I don't mind the idea of the videos, it's much more "oh, if you want a tutorial, go burn a full day to watch a dozen hour long videos".

I did that on Pornhub a couple of times. I consider those tutorials too  :o
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: al_infierno on May 02, 2021, 12:11:31 AM
 :2funny:
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Gusington on May 02, 2021, 11:13:09 AM
^Perfect 100th post from Hot Lead and Dirty Talk!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on May 02, 2021, 12:14:52 PM
Can someone who has it, post a list/snapshot of any scenarios that come with WPP?  I've seen a list of the campaigns, just wondering if there are any smaller scenarios.  TIA!
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: ArizonaTank on May 02, 2021, 01:08:46 PM
Can someone who has it, post a list/snapshot of any scenarios that come with WPP?  I've seen a list of the campaigns, just wondering if there are any smaller scenarios.  TIA!

There are five scenarios.

A Pacific '41 campaign
A Pacific '42 campaign
A Solomons Campaign with smaller map and revised scale
A China '37 land campaign (with smaller map)
An Okinawa '45 tutorial campaign
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on May 02, 2021, 01:55:02 PM
So, in this case, campaigns=scenarios?  To me campaigns, are usually bigger, more turns, more units etc.  I was hoping MG would have released WPP with some smaller scenarios (less turns, less units, etc) to cut my teeth on.  I'm trying to keep my wallet closed (for now), but am struggling.  I know there is an editor, so maybe some smaller scenarios will come out soon.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: devoncop on May 02, 2021, 02:42:58 PM
Okinawa is a very short tutorial campaign/scenario with less than 20  units per side

The Solomons is actually a bigger learning scenario  but better balanced  and much more manageable than going straight in to a Grand Campaign in my opinion.


Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: smittyohio on May 02, 2021, 04:55:07 PM
I'm just hoping that the grand scenarios will allow you to deviate from history and not lose simply because you chose to defeat Japan using a different route.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: rocketman on May 03, 2021, 08:14:58 AM
I don't have the game, but IIRC you can set the AI to play along historical lines or not. However, the AI is more tailored to play as in real life.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: berto on May 03, 2021, 12:17:22 PM
Okinawa is a very short tutorial campaign/scenario with less than 20  units per side

It is interesting that WPP supports such wide differences in map scale.  Contrast how large Okinawa is in the Okinawa tutorial scenario with the much, much smaller (one hex? two hexes?) Okinawa in the full-war campaign scenarios.

I hope that, without too much difficulty, ordinary users/modders can create new, smaller scenarios like the Okinawa one.  So that WPP can have a long line-up of "battle" scenarios much like Order of Battle has.

Although I don't see any such community-made scenarios for the original WarPlan.  Maybe I missed them.  (An Operation Husky scenario was attempted, but seems to have been abandoned.  Not a good sign.)
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: nobodyjune61944 on May 04, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
Detailed Review:
https://letstalkaboutwargames.wordpress.com/2021/05/03/warplan-pacific-review/
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: ArizonaTank on May 04, 2021, 04:39:17 PM
Detailed Review:
https://letstalkaboutwargames.wordpress.com/2021/05/03/warplan-pacific-review/

The review pretty much synchs with my opinion of WPP...."Good but not Great".

Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Ian C on May 05, 2021, 08:57:48 AM
I wonder how long the reviewer played the game for.
In my experience it takes a while until the game opens up in ways you didn't see at first, making the strategy experience deeper.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: nobodyjune61944 on May 05, 2021, 11:22:51 AM
I wonder how long the reviewer played the game for.
In my experience it takes a while until the game opens up in ways you didn't see at first, making the strategy experience deeper.

If you read the review you will discover that he played it for a long time.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Toonces on May 05, 2021, 12:00:47 PM
I haven't picked this up yet, but I definitely plan to soon. 

I'll always hold up WiTP:AE as the gold standard for a Pacific Theater wargame, but I think I'm liking the idea of abstracting some of the stuff out.  Honestly, logistics is/was such a huge part of the Pacific War but man alive is it tedious to manage in WiTP.  I might really like streamlining it to simple lines of supply like traditional board wargames. 

I haven't been on the Matrix forums but I would imagine this is getting some discussion on the WiTP:AE forum; I'd be curious their thoughts.  They can be a tough crowd.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on May 05, 2021, 03:44:34 PM
WPP has a very steep learning curve, but once you know what you're doing it is very easy to play. If you understand how it works it is very rewarding and if you don't it is very frustrating.

I do have some very minor gripes about some things that make no sense to me in the game design, but overall it is very elegant and streamlined.

I recommend it if you are interested in the subject, air-land-sea operational warfare, and also have the patience to read the manual before diving into the game.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on May 05, 2021, 03:46:46 PM
I don't have the game, but IIRC you can set the AI to play along historical lines or not. However, the AI is more tailored to play as in real life.
It is better according to the designer to play the Allies, and the Japanese are apparently better optimised as the AI. You can still play the Japanese vs the AI, but don't expect the Allied AI to be as good.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on May 05, 2021, 03:55:50 PM
I wonder how long the reviewer played the game for.
In my experience it takes a while until the game opens up in ways you didn't see at first, making the strategy experience deeper.
Probably a fair while. I have been working on it since the weekend and it is a hard game to get into. By that I mean understanding what is going on. The mechanics are fairly simple, but you need to understand it to make sensible moves and decisions. It is all about the interrelationships between different factors.

Personally, I like it. I found it extremely frustrating when I tried to jump into a game, and only after reading the manual and doing several test games did it all start coming together. There are a few minor things that I think make little sense in the design, but I hope that the designer will pick these up in a patch. Otherwise, it is a good game that balances out a streamlined approach to a massive campaign and bypasses the extreme micromanagement that War in the Pacific can lead to.

Obviously, there are purists who want the detail of WitP, and WarPlan by design is a compromise. That said, I think it is a very good compromise and with a little more polish on a couple of issues will be even better.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on May 05, 2021, 03:58:32 PM
I haven't picked this up yet, but I definitely plan to soon. 

I'll always hold up WiTP:AE as the gold standard for a Pacific Theater wargame, but I think I'm liking the idea of abstracting some of the stuff out.  Honestly, logistics is/was such a huge part of the Pacific War but man alive is it tedious to manage in WiTP.  I might really like streamlining it to simple lines of supply like traditional board wargames. 

I haven't been on the Matrix forums but I would imagine this is getting some discussion on the WiTP:AE forum; I'd be curious their thoughts.  They can be a tough crowd.
I suspect that it will hit that sweet spot for you. It is quite an elegant and streamlined game. It does have some very minor issues, but overall I think it is good. O0
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Boggit on May 05, 2021, 04:08:05 PM
Okinawa is a very short tutorial campaign/scenario with less than 20  units per side

It is interesting that WPP supports such wide differences in map scale.  Contrast how large Okinawa is in the Okinawa tutorial scenario with the much, much smaller (one hex? two hexes?) Okinawa in the full-war campaign scenarios.

I hope that, without too much difficulty, ordinary users/modders can create new, smaller scenarios like the Okinawa one.  So that WPP can have a long line-up of "battle" scenarios much like Order of Battle has.

Although I don't see any such community-made scenarios for the original WarPlan.  Maybe I missed them.  (An Operation Husky scenario was attempted, but seems to have been abandoned.  Not a good sign.)
A lot of liberties were taken with the Okinawa campaign in terms of scale.

I've played it, and won first time as the Allies, and it leaves out a lot of stuff in the main campaign game. It's an OK scenario which showcases the flexibility of the editor. There isn't an official tutorial, but essentially this is probably the best/nearest thing to one.

The game is really designed more for the larger campaigns where the 50nm per hex, two weeks per turn scale is much better. WarPlan is more geared up to a strategic/grand operational game, rather than for smaller battles.

For sure you can do them, but I suspect there are better games to handle these if you want the detail and flexibility required to depict smaller battles and campaigns.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: WallysWorld on May 31, 2021, 04:00:49 PM
So I'm sitting on my Matrix anniversary coupon for 47% off and debating whether to get both Warplan games. I already have TOAW IV and the Strategic Commandand was wondering if it's almost redundant to get Warplan?
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: Ian C on June 02, 2021, 06:31:53 AM
I already have TOAW IV and the Strategic Commandand was wondering if it's almost redundant to get Warplan?

I'd say Warplan is the best tabletop-style European WW2 game out there.

It has a classic boardgame feel to it that the others don't and I think it's got the best supply and logistics system I've seen in games of this type so far and it plays very well. Definitely a one-more turn game.

Just my opinion  -anyone else?




Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: nelmsm on June 02, 2021, 04:57:35 PM
I thought WarPlan Europe was way better then Strategic Command.  I've got the Pacific game but haven't opened it up yet.  Strategy Gaming Dojo is doing a tutorial series plus a series of a PBEM game he is playing.  Watch those and see what you think.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: al_infierno on June 02, 2021, 06:04:24 PM
I thought WarPlan Europe was way better then Strategic Command.  I've got the Pacific game but haven't opened it up yet.  Strategy Gaming Dojo is doing a tutorial series plus a series of a PBEM game he is playing.  Watch those and see what you think.

+1 on all accounts
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: WallysWorld on June 03, 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Thanks for the opinions. I might wait for the next Matrix sale and then combine the sale with my coupon and get both games.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on June 03, 2021, 03:10:39 PM
Thanks for the opinions. I might wait for the next Matrix sale and then combine the sale with my coupon and get both games.

Not sure when the next MG sale is, so just an fyi: Matrixgames anniversary coupons expire after 30 days.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: WallysWorld on June 03, 2021, 03:24:48 PM
When I add the coupon to my cart for the Matrix store, it happily accepts it and gives me the discount. I got the coupon months ago.
Title: Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
Post by: steve58 on June 03, 2021, 04:09:47 PM
 ???  Well I want your coupon.  My MG anniversary coupons are always only good for 30 days.