Author Topic: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP  (Read 71911 times)

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Offline undercovergeek

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The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« on: June 21, 2015, 07:56:42 AM »
At the cost of my other AARs its taken a while to get back in to WitP AE mode and tackle this beast. The first attempt took 25-30 hours of setting up and testing, finally happily with the turn i realised i couldnt send it as id set it up as an AI game and not a PBEM game, the second attempt was a mere 10 hours, now familiar with the UI again and already knowing what was going where it wasnt so bad.

Firstly, historic Dec 7th is off, theres a lot of things i like to do different which means planning the entirety of Dec 7th from Pearl Harbour in the east, to Singapore in the west. Pros, you get to change the strategy, tweak things, move different units here and there, cons Pearl might be a disaster, one time, a long time ago it never even happened in a PBEM due to excess cloud cover on the day!  :o
Imagine my surprise when the first combat of Dec 7th was a Brit naval attack off Hong Kong - yes, Britain started the War in the Pacific, the poor old Japanese hadnt done a thing wrong

Realistic Research is also switched off as it allows me to change the upgrade paths of a few air frames, this isnt Command and Conquer, i dont have factories making fictional and endless airplanes - i have to deal with the real OOB as was and i would like to be able to steer research toward some better aircraft. Player Defined Upgrades are also switched on, similar thing, it allows me to change the direction of some research and point factories toward another airframe - i dont want to replay the historic events of '41-'45 - i can watch a documentary for that, besides which i think i can do better than Nagumo and Yamamoto, so lets see!

The strategy of my opening turn then will be to bomb Pearl from the west as opposed to the north just incase theres any of those US CVs floating around, take the traditional islands to the west, Makin, Tarawa etc. Take Wake with a bigger force than historically and build it up some, maybe plan for taking Midway and begin to worry KyzBP. Depending on the strength of the Pearl attack ill either stick around for a second day, or head off to Wake and support the landing there.

On the Home Islands and Saigon, 6 divisions are loaded and ready to sail south to the tip of the Phillipines and meet up at an island base called Badelbaob. From here the divisions will move west taking Borneo, and Java and capturing the oilfields as soon as possible, once thats done theyll reform around Feb/Mar 1942 and either head for Australia of India, havent decided yet.

To the west there will be the traditional landing at Khota Bharu, north of Singapore but it will be highly overpowered to capture the base and airfield and build the airfield up to sustain sweeps over Singapore, then move inland to cut the peninsula in two before allied support can be sent to strengthen Singapore. On day 2 there will be a massive landing of over 150 ships at Mersing, just north of Singapore to stop any other allies heading south and to provide another airbase to bomb Singapore. This is called the Mersing Gambit amongst the regulars of the WitP forum, and can be done on day 1 but its considered gamey on day 1 as you would have sailed passed so many Allied eyes that you would have been seen and intercepted - something that cant be recreated on a Dec 7th start in the game, so its off as i dont think its fair, day 2 is all good though. My biggest concern with this whole venture is a weak Pearl attack and a troublesome Force Z. Force Z consisted of the battleship Prince of Wales and battlecruiser Repulse and accompanying destroyers, it traditionally sails (if KyzBP doesnt move it) just off the coast of Mersing and then is pummelled by Japanese torpedo bombers from Saigon - if the bombers dont make it, miss, or Force Z simply survives the encounter i have an awfully powerful force within 80km of the majority of my forces needed to take Singapore. With this in mind my battleship force is sent to rendezvous in the same hex as the mersing invasion force to provide air cover and to protect them from Force Z - fingers crossed.

A small base in the corner of Borneo called Singkawang will also be taken, this is the staging point for me to take Palembang - the largest oil reserve and oil supplier in the game, this is what the Japanese went to war for and i need it as soon as possible. Singkawang wil be taken, manned with fighters to provide CAP over the Mersing fleet and CAP for the Palembang invasion force which will immediately take the base and then get back on the boats and head there.

There will be no landings to the north of the Phillipines, there will be a mass bomber raid on the port of Manilla to try and sink as many subs as possible and then it will be left until Singapore has fallen, its essentially an island prison, it cant be reinforced, it cant be abandoned, i will take it when im ready. I will however take a base to the far south called Cagayan, it has a good airfield and port and allows me to move bombers here to cover all evacuations from Manilla, the Phillipines and Borneo and cover my own ingoing invasions into Borneo. My third major concern is a ship that sails around this area called the US Boise, its a monster, can take down invasion fleets all on its own and has many threads dedicated to it on the WitP forum, if i can catch this with the mini KB then ill be happy, if i miss and it sees the invasion on turn 2 it can very well reach Cagayan and make a terrible mess there.

Ill not bore you with the tale of what factories have been changed to what, what airframes are been built and what transport task forces are carrying how much oil where, if im teaching you to suck eggs and you know about Force Z and the KB then let me know, if you want to know about the KB also let me know - the turn is in and ill show the results later

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 09:01:23 AM »
Not at all, I had no idea the Boise == Godzilla!  :coolsmiley: Like many people I'm ignorant of the long-established quirks of this game, despite not only owning the original and the admiral's edition, but also War Plan Orange (which is the only one I've even slightly played, btw.)

While I agree there isn't any point to talk about which task forces are carrying oil where (unless maybe you set up an important route that needs defense or is especially important, but you could wait until it comes under attack), I'm curious about the general direction you're planning to take to improve airframes better than historical (and why).
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Offline Sir Slash

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2015, 08:59:55 PM »
That sounds like an awful lot of coordinating going on there for Nippon. My brain aches at the thought of managing it all in that game. Has it been made any easier since the original?
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Offline jomni

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 02:13:11 AM »
That sounds like an awful lot of coordinating going on there for Nippon. My brain aches at the thought of managing it all in that game. Has it been made any easier since the original?

They made it WORSE! More details to fuss about.

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 02:38:10 AM »
That sounds like an awful lot of coordinating going on there for Nippon. My brain aches at the thought of managing it all in that game. Has it been made any easier since the original?

weeeeeeelllllllllllll, it depends on how you look at it, theres more of everything, but if youre a logisitcs nut, an OCD supply weirdo then its awesome

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 03:23:14 AM »
Ok, some pics so that theres a face to the names of the main areas of operations

Malaya



The Phillipines



Hawaii



The Home Islands


Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 03:35:55 AM »
While I agree there isn't any point to talk about which task forces are carrying oil where (unless maybe you set up an important route that needs defense or is especially important, but you could wait until it comes under attack), I'm curious about the general direction you're planning to take to improve airframes better than historical (and why).

At the start of the game the Japanese are building some old heaps of junk, the Nate fighter has already been surpassed by the Oscar fighter but factories are still churning out the Nate - these need converting to the Oscar, all at a supply cost that needs paying paying for, and then of course the engine factories need to switch their production from the Nate engine to the Oscar engine, again at cost, also you need to roughly synchronise the airframes to engine requirements otherwise youre going to end up with 150 oscars and 5 engines for them, or 5 oscars and 150 engines.

The conversion from Claude to the Zero has pretty much been completed in the factories but there are still a lot of old Claudes on flat tops and in bases that need upgrading to the zero. There will be a huge requirement for the Zero so factory output needs practically doubling so some old obsolete plane factories are converted to making the Zero, and other factories change to the zero engine.

You need to pick one main Army bomber and stay with the two Naval bombers - the Nell and the Betty. The army is either, for now, the Lilly or the Helen, i like the Helen much better and factories need to change to this.

Across China are some really old single bomb bombers and obsolete aircraft that no matter what you do simply wont upgrade to a line thats required - these are sent to the far flung reaches of the map, out of harms way and the pilot training programme begins with them. In short im taking all the experienced pilots out of these old buckets that cant be upgraded or cant be reassigned to the front lines of the war and putting them in the reserve list to replace lost qualified pilots where it matters. The now abandoned squadrons will be filled with rookie pilots who can train in the deserts of China or over the quiet seas of Japan and gain enough experience and skill to join the reserve ranks, wash rinse repeat throughout the game

A proven strategy for the further down the lines is to focus on one navy fighter and one army fighter and put all the research into those airframes and try and get them to the production lines early - im still undecided on which one yet, so in the meantime R&D is switched off as it costs supply and ill pick in a day or 2

Across the Home Islands i have increased the repair facilities of a few shipyards, increased the naval workshops of a few other and reduced the merchant workshops of yet others. There will be a need to get wartime ships as soon as possible, but the merchant navy is pretty much big enough now to see me to the end of the game, bar a few extra tankers and oilers so their production is scaled back to save supplies

i think/hope that covers it

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 04:12:53 AM »
A day of infamy

It starts out with something ive never seen before, one of the midget subs launched as the very first attack of the game actually breaks through the nets at Pearl and puts a torpedo in the side of the West Virginia



Then this happens  >:( -

Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 68
      B5N2 Kate x 144
      D3A1 Val x 135
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
      B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
      D3A1 Val: 14 damaged
      D3A1 Val: 3 destroyed by flak
 
Allied aircraft losses
      B-17E Fortress: 14 damaged
      B-17D Fortress: 36 damaged
      B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
      A-20A Havoc: 20 damaged
      A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
      R3D-2: 2 damaged
      PBY-5 Catalina: 127 damaged
      PBY-5 Catalina: 6 destroyed on ground
      P-40B Warhawk: 16 damaged
      P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed on ground
      P-36A Mohawk: 11 damaged
      P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed on ground
      B-18A Bolo: 31 damaged
      B-18A Bolo: 2 destroyed on ground
      SBD-1 Dauntless: 28 damaged
      SBD-1 Dauntless: 3 destroyed on ground
      C-33: 1 damaged
      C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
      F4F-3 Wildcat: 6 damaged
      F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
      O-47A: 4 damaged
      O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
 
Allied Ships
      CL Honolulu, Torpedo hits 1
      BB Arizona, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      BB California, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      BB Nevada, Bomb hits 3,  on fire
      BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
      AM Grebe, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
      BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
      BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire
      AVD Thornton, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      SS Cachalot, Torpedo hits 1,  heavy damage
      DM Gamble, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 4,  heavy fires
      CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 1
      CL Detroit, Torpedo hits 1,  on fire,  heavy damage
      CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
      DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
      AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DMS Perry, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      CL Phoenix, Torpedo hits 1
      CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1,  on fire

Dear Lord, the most anaemic of Pearl strikes, no BBs sunk, the Val bombers look to have got in the way of the Kate torpedo bombers as there are far more bomb hits than torps - I will be taking that second day strike - itll be more bloody now that the US knows we are here, but the day 1 casualties on the KBs aircraft are very small so we should be OK

The attack on Manillas port is more promising

Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 81
      G3M2 Nell x 36
      G4M1 Betty x 81
 
Allied aircraft
      P-26A x 4
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      P-26A: 2 destroyed
 
Allied Ships
      AV Langley, Bomb hits 3,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS Snapper, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
      AO Trinity, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      DD John D. Ford, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      PT-31, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1
      SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 1
      SS Salmon, Bomb hits 1
      SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      xAK Tantalus, Bomb hits 2,  on fire
      xAP Neptuna, Bomb hits 2,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS S-40, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      xAKL Palawan, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      TK Gertrude Kellogg, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      xAKL Anakan, Bomb hits 1
      xAKL Paz, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
      SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 2,  heavy damage
      DD Pope, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS S-38, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      SS S-41, Bomb hits 1,  heavy damage
      DD Peary, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      xAKL Compagnia Filipinas, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      AS Holland, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      PG Tulsa, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 1
      AVD Childs, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS Porpoise, Bomb hits 1,  heavy damage
      AS Otus, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires
      SS Perch, Bomb hits 1,  heavy damage
      SS Seal, Bomb hits 1,  heavy damage

A second smaller wave goes in and hits a few more subs

Japanese aircraft
      A6M2 Zero x 9
      Ki-21-IIa Sally x 18
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied aircraft losses
      P-40E Warhawk: 3 destroyed
 
Allied Ships
      SS Pickerel, Bomb hits 1
      SS Stingray, Bomb hits 1
      SS Seadragon, Bomb hits 1
      AO Pecos, Bomb hits 1
      xAK Ethel Edwards, Bomb hits 1,  on fire
      AM Whippoorwill, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS Sealion, Bomb hits 1
      SS Tarpon, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
      xAKL Compagnia Filipinas, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
      SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1
      xAK Tantalus, Bomb hits 1,  on fire

KyzBP diverts Force Z and heads up the west of the peninsula instead, torpedo bombers still find him but the Prince of Wales escapes, for now


Morning Air attack on TF, near Kuala Lumpur at 48,79
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      G4M1 Betty x 27
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged
      G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak
 
Allied Ships
      BB Prince of Wales
      BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 4,  on fire,  heavy damage
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      27 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

The Boise............ doesnt  :D

Morning Air attack on TF, near Siquijor at 76,87
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid spotted at 3 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      B5N1 Kate x 12
 
No Japanese losses
 
Allied Ships
      CL Boise, Torpedo hits 3,  heavy damage
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      12 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo


A second attack,

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Siquijor at 76,87
 
Weather in hex: Clear sky
 
Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes
 
Japanese aircraft
      B5N1 Kate x 15
 
Allied aircraft
      no flights
 
Japanese aircraft losses
      B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged
 
Allied aircraft losses
      SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed
 
Allied Ships
      CL Boise, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
 
Aircraft Attacking:
      15 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
               Naval Attack:  1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

All landings proceed as planned, there is an intense air battle as wave after wave of Allied bombers try and hit the landings at Kuantan and the Mersing Invasion force, in the end 2 ships are hit for the loss of 108 troops - the CAP provided by Patani serves us well, however next turn it wont even be there  :'(
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 02:15:51 AM by undercovergeek »

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 10:01:56 AM »
Damn, I wish I could live to be 300 so I could play a campaign to completion. Great start UCG. Yamamoto might actually smile.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Offline Con

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 12:14:06 PM »
I have played both WitE and WitP AE and the UI and ability to simplify complex tasks in WitE is a quantum leap over WitP AE.

I wonder if you could take that know-how from WitE and apply it now to WitP AE (which is a derivation from Uncommon Valor a game that is 13 years old).

I would love to get back into WitP AE but I just dont have time to setup all the individual tasks and micromanaging to play any type of campaign.

Con

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 12:19:39 PM »
I have played both WitE and WitP AE and the UI and ability to simplify complex tasks in WitE is a quantum leap over WitP AE.

I wonder if you could take that know-how from WitE and apply it now to WitP AE (which is a derivation from Uncommon Valor a game that is 13 years old).

I would love to get back into WitP AE but I just dont have time to setup all the individual tasks and micromanaging to play any type of campaign.

Con

Where's my damn pbem set up turn?  :P

Offline Con

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2015, 12:47:29 PM »
Danger I sense thread derailment ahead!

OK I will get a CMBS PBEM game setup turn out to you.  PM me if you have any special requests otherwise I will set you up with Russian cooks equipped with pistols on an open plain against a US combined arms task force supported by Apaches.  Its all in the point allocations! >:D

Con

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2015, 01:03:04 PM »
Lol, I'll pm you tomorrow - only got phone access at mo

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2015, 11:58:22 AM »
Quote
The Boise............ doesnt  :D

DEATH TO GODZILLA!
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Offline Martok

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Re: The Sun against the Eagle - WitP AE AAR - UCG v KyzBP
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2015, 07:38:47 AM »
Oh my!  Here's hoping the second-day strike on Pearl goes a bit better... 

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