Combat Mission or wait for something else?

[acctingman]

Every DAMN time I watch a let's play/tutorial video of Combat Mission Normandy I just drool I tried, a couple years ago, the tutorial and after a couple hours, a few beers (and a fireball shot) I crawled into the fetal position and cried for my mommie.  :pullhair:

I love the looks of the game, the scale, the sounds, everything.....except the learning curve. I know there are scads of tutorials out there and I've watched my share. I also know that if I kept at it, cried some more, I'd eventually be good enough at it to NOT suck so bad.

So, do I make another attempt, OR....is there something coming out soon(ish) that you think might be able to take it's place?

EDIT : this posted really sounds like a 'WAAAAHHHHHHHAAAA" poor me post, but it's also a cry for help!  But seriously, does anyone here know of a game that is similar in feel to CM (that isn't so damn frustrating) or a new coming down the pipe that might compare to it?

Back to watching more videos 

Thanks

[Con]

Honestly I dont mean this to be a negative response but Combat Mission is great because it forces you to use real world tactics.  You get punished for running in the open and assaulting a tank or taking too long to cross exposed LOS ground and letting arty fall on you.

All the tactics and battles you read in WW2 books come to life in CM in a way no other game can replicate including heroic moments like a lone squad member making it into an enemy strong point/bunker and taking them all out, as well as less heroic ones like your team leader with a +2 modifier getting whacked thereby promoting his cowardly underling who immediately decides to break and take the platoon holding the key defensive position with him to the rear thus loosing the battle (not that I am bitter about this).

Keep plugging away at it and like real life infantry tactics think how you would act if you were in their boots

Con

[Jarhead0331]

Part of the fun of these games is supposed to be in doing, failing dramatically and learning. There is a scenario I keep playing in CM Normandy that I repeatedly get shredded in when playing as the allies. I keep trying to take advantage of the terrain in different ways to avoid the decimation of my units. I try to shift artillery and mortar strikes. I try different avenues of approach. I try smoke. I try diversions and feints. I try different combinations of armor and infantry, etc.

We have the luxury of playing these games and failing horribly without it actually costing anyone their life. Just think...real commanders do not have that luxury, yet they make the same mistakes we are apt to make when analyzing the terrain and making assumptions of likely enemy positions and unit compositions; the difference is when they make those decisions it really matters. Most of them will carry on, despite the very real, heavy price that was paid. We just get to reload. Don't let it get you down.

[Toonces]

The only other game like CM:Normandy that I'm aware of is Graviteam Tactics, and the UI alone will make you cry.

I suppose the Men of War titles are sort of like CM...I mean not really, but sort of.

I'm not aware of anything like CM coming out.  My recommendation is to suck it up and put in the time.

[Staggerwing]

There's always CMx1...

[Destraex]

Nothing I am aware of that will take Combat Mission's place. However I find I rarely play it simply because of the fact that I cannot coop with friends.
Playing vs each other is fun but in this modern world of pc gaming we live in I find coop gaming VS real people or AI to be much more complex and rewarding.
Much like team sports are more fun than 1v1 sports. I also find the engine that battlefront are using to be clunky as hell, the terrain hurts my eyes.

There are a couple of contenders for the "better interface" and "easier" than combat mission however;

Close Combat 3D is supposed to be coming some time this year iirc. But development for this again has been really slow
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=1254

Art of Combat - Anzio 44 - no idea when this will come as development seems really slow
http://tacticalartofcombat.com/index.html

Steel Division 44 - ok maybe not a pure wargame, but this is going to be a lot of fun coop.

Gates of Hell - A mow2 squad assault clone. If you liked squad assault, which I do for the models and the coop/mods. This could be your thing.

[Apocalypse 31]

Battle Academy 2 does it for me. I really feel like BA2 is the turn-based answer to Close Combat, where you are rewarded for making tactically sound decisions. 

The graphics are simplified and there's a lot of abstraction in the terrain, which I find to be enjoyable and removes some of the micromanaging from Combat Mission.

It also has cooperative multiplayer (scenarios) and cooperative multiplayer random skirmish mode, although its PBEM.

[sandman2575]

Keep plugging away at it and like real life infantry tactics think how you would act if you were in their boots

I think this is one of the real keys to CMx2. When giving orders to units, always think, "how dangerous does it seem like this would be in actual combat?" If it seems like it'd be dangerous to do 'in real life,' then it will be dangerous to do in Combat Mission.

I don't think Graviteam Tactics has the kind of sheer unforgiving combat that CMx2 features. I often give fairly reckless order to infantry in Mius Front -- storming foxholes and trenches, that kind of thing. The risks usually pay off. In Combat Mission, if I treat infantry the same way, they get absolutely slaughtered.

Also -- and I seem to be the only person who thinks this -- but I really think the UI in Mius Front is excellent -- *far* better than CMx2's incredibly clunky UI, which is badly in need of an update. Graviteam Tactic's UI is strange, in that it's not really like anything else you'll see in other games. But once you figure it out, it's actually a very flexible, elegant tool.

[jomni]

Agree with Sandman. CMx2 pixel troops have poor sense of self preservation.  :DD Extremely bad during the Shock Force days but now somewhat improved. But still...

They require some baby-sitting unlike other games who knows when to duck and take advantage of "micro terrain" which is somewhat non-existent in CMx2.  As a commander, I would think these guys are smart enough to do tactical things autonomously.  But no, they will wait for your command. They will blindly follow orders to the death.  They are brain dead as a squad and only has minimal set of programed tactical behaviour (am I too harsh?). On the bright side, this is a tactical doctrine afficionado's dream because you get to see and control every detail and watch the consequences unfold. You get to flex your mind in concocting clever solutions for the tactical problems presented to you. You don't only play as commander but you also play each squad / section leader and vehicle commander.

GT pixel troops on the other hand are trained to do micro manoeuvres, spread out, take cover, vary formations based broad commands and Rules of Engaement that the player sets. More of a real command simulation. The brain work is more high level as you trust that your pixel troops can do the job with minimal micromanaging.  Downside is the details are lost and things can get really frustrating for the player since it can get quite chaotic (full real time, less details presented).

So both models has their merits. Depends on what type of game you want to play.

[Raied]

GT models is the future of the simulated tactical wargame, cant wait for the day that this game can be evolved into: having the details of CM combat, turn based WEGO multiplayer with the same C&C rules of Flashpoint Campaign *dreaming*

[Tinkershuffle]

I love the looks of the game, the scale, the sounds, everything.....except the learning curve. I know there are scads of tutorials out there and I've watched my share. I also know that if I kept at it, cried some more, I'd eventually be good enough at it to NOT suck so bad.

What do you think is the most challenging aspect, the mechanics of the game or the difficulty of the battles? The UI is unique but it isn't supposed to be rocket science once you experiment with it a little. Start with small battles, platoon/company sized, before moving into the bigger ones. Remember that in this game you can shoot before you can see the enemy. My approach in the series, especially in Black Sea where firepower is almost unlimited, is to lay down suppressive fire and havoc to every damn building or bush that I even suspect to be infected with the enemies. And don't get engaged with all your troops at once, if you don't have a reserve your options are very limited.

[JudgeDredd]

Honestly I dont mean this to be a negative response but Combat Mission is great because it forces you to use real world tactics.  You get punished for running in the open and assaulting a tank or taking too long to cross exposed LOS ground and letting arty fall on you.

All the tactics and battles you read in WW2 books come to life in CM in a way no other game can replicate including heroic moments like a lone squad member making it into an enemy strong point/bunker and taking them all out, as well as less heroic ones like your team leader with a +2 modifier getting whacked thereby promoting his cowardly underling who immediately decides to break and take the platoon holding the key defensive position with him to the rear thus loosing the battle (not that I am bitter about this).

Keep plugging away at it and like real life infantry tactics think how you would act if you were in their boots

Con

Completely fair point and 100% accurate.

However, when you want to use real world tactics and can't, that's when frustration sets in.

I haven't played in some time but two examples spring into my head immediately

• Can't order a tank to fire one shot of smoke - he fires all his smoke shells in the 60 second phase
• The most infuriating for me and it destroys the "real world tactics" point - you can't aim at an enemy unit on the second floor of a building because you can't see the base of that building

I love the games and I've bought most. But every time I want to use a Sherman to provide smoke cover and he blows all his smoke shells or if I want to provide suppressive fire to the 2nd level of a building to silence that MG so my boys can advance or fire and manoeuvre and I can't because I can't see the base of the building, it frustrates me. The first one is rare, I'll be honest. But the second point has raised it's head on a few occasions.

Having said that - they are the best games at that scale that I'm aware of and I've had far, far more hours of fun than I have frustration.

[jomni]

An alternative is to play real time but that's also leads to some problems.

[JudgeDredd]

I used to really enjoy real time but on the advice of others I reverted back to turn based and actually much prefer it.

[jomni]

I used to really enjoy real time but on the advice of others I reverted back to turn based and actually much prefer it.

Me too.