Combat Mission or wait for something else?

[fabius]

I have a love-hate with CM.

Love wego, the action replays can be so tense, and like a movie. Love detail, like armour penetration model.

Hate scripted campaigns,
Hate lack of AI. The great map makers seem to make more and more scenarios like puzzles to make up for it. Little tricks like putting ground floor of enemy positon bellow ground level.

CM has AI quick battles. Do a meeting engagement and it's almost zombie time. It's one of those things, once I saw it it's hard to in-see. Even their promo pre-release vid shows brain dead.

Check AI tank use/movement after around 1:24 in

[-budd-]

Panzer Command is defiantly worth considering. Get it when there's a sale, there is a ton of content and a battle and campaign generator. The graphics are old and the infantry model needs work but the armor model is solid. You also have a choice on turn timings and SOP settings for each unit.

[MengJiao]

Also check out John Tiller Panzer Battles demo. More tactical than PC, and seems like a scale I can really enjoy!

  The Normandy game in that series is interesting.  There are some very odd non-historical items silently added to some of the scenarios.  For example,
KG Meyer, which was wiped out on D-day, turns up to cause trouble later.  AND in the ever-redone and re-done Villiers Bocage scenario, 7th armored somehow penetrates the boundary between 2nd Pz and Pz Lehr (+ I SS Corps) -- which was true -- without the Americans having taken Caumont -- which would have been impossible.

[jomni]

Does this game have a less steep learning curve than CMx2?

Are there mods for PC: Ostfront?

My impression is yes, a less steep learning curve than CMx2. A free demo can be downloaded from Matrix Games, so you can try for yourself!

Don't know about mods, but the game was built to be massively mod-able, and customizable. So, I expect so.

Ostfront is minatures boardgame-ish.

[Yskonyn]

I have a love-hate with CM.

Love wego, the action replays can be so tense, and like a movie. Love detail, like armour penetration model.

Hate scripted campaigns,
Hate lack of AI. The great map makers seem to make more and more scenarios like puzzles to make up for it. Little tricks like putting ground floor of enemy positon bellow ground level.

CM has AI quick battles. Do a meeting engagement and it's almost zombie time. It's one of those things, once I saw it it's hard to in-see. Even their promo pre-release vid shows brain dead.

Check AI tank use/movement after around 1:24 in

What version are you talking about? That video is just a moment in a scenario and hardly the be all end all of how the AI performs. Secondly the video isn't very current.

You do have a point though: in scenarios it matters much wether the designer has put in the time to make several battle plans for the AI or did not.
The scenarios which have multiple plans feel a lot more like a surprise and challenge indeed.
Still, the QB mode doesn't feel like a zombie apocalypse to me at all. I've had quite a few nice battles in there.

[fabius]

Not the latest version.

Should qualify my QB experience.

1. Meeting Engagements.

2. Mostly with all infantry battles. For two reasons, one I have a thing for infantry.
Two, challenge because once I've won the AFV battle against AI it's mostly just mop up time for me.

Which QB are you talking, final Blitzkrieg or in general.

I'd also say this for balance. Despite dislike for what I perceive as lack of AI; and scripted campaigns; CM has given me some of the most memorable game moments. And really shines in 2 player PBM.

[jomni]

The AI must be scripted for each QB map too. In early iterations, map creators missed this part.  Even with an AI Plan in the map, sometimes they just don't work and sit still. Sometimes the AI plans are too simple.  Best chance of getting a good game vs AI is by playing an assault scenario.  Sometimes even automated force selection is broken. QB vs AI is definitely hit or miss (I'm talking about CMBS).  Multiplayer QB experience is superb.

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119542-quick-battle-is-broken/

[Destraex]

Yep. The AI is brain dead, always has been. Best to assault against the AI so the AI does not have to actually do anything.
PBM is extremely slow and unrealistic. Each Turn of 1 minute taking an hour depending on how much time each player spends. Or even days if your like me sometimes and it takes you a week to send the turn email back!

[Raied]

Yep. The AI is brain dead, always has been. Best to assault against the AI so the AI does not have to actually do anything.
PBM is extremely slow and unrealistic. Each Turn of 1 minute taking an hour depending on how much time each player spends. Or even days if your like me sometimes and it takes you a week to send the turn email back!

yup, same as myself, I play PBEM only, and I have much little time to be on the PC, sometimes it takes almost a month to finish a battle of 30 minutes total, but still it is the best and most enjoyable way for me to play a tactical wargame.

[RyanE]

Thats only if you allow that time to happen.  In the few MP games I played with friends we set limits on time to give orders.  CM just isn't built to run in real-time.  It has few of the tools needed to manage a complex game in real-time, like a jump list for events, scripting your units actions (although they have added a few capabilities here), or SOPs for unit reaction and postures.

[solops]

I am confused. Is this the same Combat Missions as "Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin" and "Combat Mission: Afrika Corps"? I have both of those games, manuals and everything, but never played them. What is the difference with what you guys are talking about?

[Jarhead0331]

I am confused. Is this the same Combat Missions as "Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin" and "Combat Mission: Afrika Corps"? I have both of those games, manuals and everything, but never played them. What is the difference with what you guys are talking about?

Different games, same series. The games we are talking about are much more recent and have been given a total face lift and update. They were probably rebuilt from the ground up. The engine has undergone several major updates over the years, as well, so most of the current CM games are at version 4.0.

[dinsdale]

All I can say about CM is that it has proven to me that I am spectacularly over qualified to have been a senior British officer. I would have fit in perfectly during such outstanding successes as Goodwood and Arras, or heroically defending Greece in 1941 or North Africa in 1942.

All I need is for CM 1916 to come out and I would no doubt be the equal of Haig.

[Boggit]

All I need is for CM 1916 to come out and I would no doubt be the equal of Haig.

LOL! Scary... :DD I take it you don't scout out an area before you move into it? ;)

[Sir Slash]

That game has taught us all.... many.... things. It likes to teach with a big stick to whack the hell outta you when you don't pay attention.