Author Topic: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs  (Read 13511 times)

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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2020, 03:56:23 PM »
darn it, game delayed 3 weeks, now december 10

Those mother f*ers. The game has gone gold. What the hell could be the holdup?
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2020, 04:09:22 PM »
darn it, game delayed 3 weeks, now december 10

Those mother f*ers. The game has gone gold. What the hell could be the holdup?

They claim they needed more time to synch the release across all the various platforms....and they played with the word "gone gold" to say it was feature complete but changes could still happen....of course most people use gone gold to say ready to release and shouldn't be delayed.  That is what has me a little worried.  This is the third delay and even if they wanted to synch across all platforms, they didn't know that when they previously changed the date?  I am a little suspicious......

Offline CptHowdy

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2020, 04:11:13 PM »
Polishing up that release day dlc no doubt 8)

Offline Gusington

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2020, 04:59:15 PM »
Yep 2-3 times.
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2020, 03:50:48 AM »
I was reading some posts on this and have no idea how reliable, but seems like a number of people predicted the game would be delayed a number of times and the true release date is more like February 2021....will be interesting to see if that comes true, December does seem like an odd release time frame for a major PC game, but who knows.....can't imagine the company would want to take another PR hit if they do indeed push back again.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2020, 06:23:45 AM »
It's the perfect time - just in time for the holidays.
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2020, 07:49:12 AM »
It's the perfect time - just in time for the holidays.

Although believe most major releases typically come before Thanksgiving, traditional start to the holiday season...as it gets closer to the major holiday, gives them more excuses to postpone since they don't want their people working during it:)

Offline Gusington

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2020, 09:02:52 AM »
I think...it's a delicate balance.
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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2020, 09:34:34 AM »
It could also have to do with the negative publicity CD Projekt Red has received for the alleged pre-release work crunch.

The concept is foreign to me. When i have a trial or a deadline, my clients expect me to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There is no complaining about cruel working hours. Imagine having a job where your employer takes $hit for expecting its employees to get a job done and deliver on time. God forbid a coder misses his child's bedtime story for a few weeks.  :idiot2:
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2020, 10:27:21 AM »
It could also have to do with the negative publicity CD Projekt Red has received for the alleged pre-release work crunch.

The concept is foreign to me. When i have a trial or a deadline, my clients expect me to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There is no complaining about cruel working hours. Imagine having a job where your employer takes $hit for expecting its employees to get a job done and deliver on time. God forbid a coder misses his child's bedtime story for a few weeks.  :idiot2:

+1

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2020, 01:08:58 PM »
The gaming industry is notorious for treating its software devs like shit pretty much across the board, crunch or not, especially when compared to other commercial software firms and tech companies in general.  If CDPR have managed to earn a special reputation in this regard, I don't imagine it's simply because they made their devs work overtime to meet a crunch deadline.
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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2020, 01:19:03 PM »
The gaming industry is notorious for treating its software devs like shit pretty much across the board, crunch or not, especially when compared to other commercial software firms and tech companies in general.  If CDPR have managed to earn a special reputation in this regard, I don't imagine it's simply because they made their devs work overtime to meet a crunch deadline.

OK. I'd be interested in seeing evidence of these pervasive violations of human rights by game developers. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but everything I've read about it consists of mostly complaints of long hours for a relatively limited period of time, in the run-up to release. i mean, are they locked into buildings without windows where the doors are chained? Are they starved or beaten? What is so egregious in this particular industry over others? If being a software dev is so thankless and onerous as to represent a form of indentured servitude, why are so many flocking into the field?

I'm much more inclined to believe the issue is really about the fact that most in the industry are young, and well, you can probably guess my opinion on the work ethic of younger generations (hint: lazy and entitled).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 01:21:42 PM by Jarhead0331 »
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2020, 01:34:54 PM »
Quote
but everything I've read about it consists of mostly complaints of long hours for a relatively limited period of time, in the run-up to release.

From what I understand, CDPR made their employees work extremely long "crunch hours" for over a year straight.  It sounds like "crunch time" is the standard of operation at CDPR, rather than a "relatively limited period of time in the run-up to release."  I don't know how this compares to other game developers, but this is not the norm for software development or the tech industry as a whole, unless you're working at a startup (which CDPR is not).

Quote
I'm much more inclined to believe the issue is really about the fact that most in the industry are young, and well, you can probably guess my opinion on the work ethic of younger generations (hint: lazy and entitled).

I'm interested in seeing evidence that young people tend to be lazy and entitled compared to older people.  I think you are seeing patterns where they don't exist.  A large amount of software development in general is done by younger people, not just game development.  I happen to know from working in the software industry that it's full of hard-working people in their 20s and 30s.  From what I understand, game development in particular is a nightmare of hostile work environments - not hyperbolic "pervasive human rights" violations, but leading through fear and intimidation and threatening people with their livelihood if they, for example, want to go home at 5 PM on a Friday in the midst of a year-plus "crunch time."
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 01:36:48 PM by al_infierno »
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Online Jarhead0331

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2020, 02:04:51 PM »
Quote
but everything I've read about it consists of mostly complaints of long hours for a relatively limited period of time, in the run-up to release.

From what I understand, CDPR made their employees work extremely long "crunch hours" for over a year straight.  It sounds like "crunch time" is the standard of operation at CDPR, rather than a "relatively limited period of time in the run-up to release."  I don't know how this compares to other game developers, but this is not the norm for software development or the tech industry as a whole, unless you're working at a startup (which CDPR is not).

Quote
I'm much more inclined to believe the issue is really about the fact that most in the industry are young, and well, you can probably guess my opinion on the work ethic of younger generations (hint: lazy and entitled).

I'm interested in seeing evidence that young people tend to be lazy and entitled compared to older people.  I think you are seeing patterns where they don't exist.  A large amount of software development in general is done by younger people, not just game development.  I happen to know from working in the software industry that it's full of hard-working people in their 20s and 30s.  From what I understand, game development in particular is a nightmare of hostile work environments - not hyperbolic "pervasive human rights" violations, but leading through fear and intimidation and threatening people with their livelihood if they, for example, want to go home at 5 PM on a Friday in the midst of a year-plus "crunch time."

I honestly don't feel like arguing with you in the forums over yet another issue. Suffice it to say, my opinion of the younger generation is based upon my own observations across several industries. I'm comfortable making the conclusion based on that criteria that seems to be pretty empirical, even if it may be from a relatively small sampling.

Additionally, I just do not see the problem with working long hours. Welcome to my life. I've been a lawyer for 20 years and it is only recently that I've been able to begin making my own schedule. Previously, if I was not at my desk by 9:00a.m. on the button, or if I left a second before 9:00 p.m., I could be threatened with losing a bonus or losing my job. I'm hard pressed to imagine that the environment in a game developer's office is more hostile than what one is likely to find within the institutional setting of a major law firm. Never once did I consider complaining or going to the press to act as some harbinger of change. I was grateful to have a job, and having come from the military, I was happy to be alive and in relative comfort. Maybe it's all just a matter of perspective. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 02:13:47 PM by Jarhead0331 »
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Offline Tpek

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 - from Witcher devs
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2020, 02:13:08 PM »
Late to the party here, but here are my 2 cents:

1) CDR has a right to delay the game, and it's better to delay the game and release a good product than release a garbage dump now and patch it later.
That said, they've continuously delayed the game time and time again. This isn't just bad management, this is toying with their customers. Instead of scheduling a release date
that will be as soon as possible, they should schedule a date they are 100% sure they will be able to release the game by then. And if they end up being able to release earlier, then do so.

2) As a programmer in the Israeli software industry the whining about "Crunch time" seems utterly silly to me. There's always crunch time in software development.
Working 12 hours a day and 5 days a week, plus several more hours on the weekend is completely normal thing to occur over a year or two.
Leaving the job at 17:00 in most companies is like doing only half a day.
F's sake, my previous job I was constantly woken in the middle of the night (3-4 in the "morning") to deal with problems (first by phone and then had to hurry over and commute to my workplace).

3) I really don't want to drag this into the R&P forum, but I have a different "bias" as to why they complain, and it's got more to do with the continent they live in (where work conditions are fantastic
and unions are a real thing) than with their age.