Author Topic: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific  (Read 6937 times)

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Offline steve58

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Matrixgames Warplan Pacific
« on: December 06, 2020, 04:00:08 PM »
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/217315/matrix-games-announces-four-2021-releases

So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2021, 12:53:00 PM by steve58 »
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2020, 04:25:25 PM »
https://www.bluesnews.com/s/217315/matrix-games-announces-four-2021-releases

So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)

Offline steve58

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2020, 04:33:49 PM »
So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Quote

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)

Somehow I don't think a " " would hold up in court.  "War Plan Pacific" and "Warplan Pacific" are basically identical to me.  I predict the MG version will undergo a name change.  That said, the fact that its based in the PTO definitely has my attention...

I think the Shrapnel Games version of WPP is their only title I ever bought.  A fairly enjoyable beer and pretzel game.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 04:37:47 PM by steve58 »
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.   Thomas Jefferson

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.   George Orwell

If you ever find yourself in need of a safe space then you’re probably going to have to stop calling yourself a social justice warrior. You cannot be a warrior and a pansy at the same time.   Mike Adams (RIP Mike)

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2020, 04:36:08 PM »
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D
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If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
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I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
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Offline Grim.Reaper

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2020, 04:41:07 PM »
So MG has announced a Warplan Pacific for 2021.  Is this a remake/update of the Shrapnel Games version??  If not, seems like a copyright issue.

Quote

Matrix uses Warplan (with no space) and Shrapnel used War Plan with a space...they must be thinking that is OK:)

But the best part of your link, saw on the Shrapnel site that its that time of year again where Shrapnel is having their mega $5 off annual holiday sale:)

Somehow I don't think a " " would hold up in court.  "War Plan Pacific" and "Warplan Pacific" are basically identical to me.  I predict the MG version will undergo a name change.  That said, the fact that its based in the PTO definitely has my attention...

I think the Shrapnel Games version of WPP is their only title I ever bought.  A fairly enjoyable beer and pretzel game.

Don't know, but other properties have the same name...for example, the move Silent Night.  One of the versions is about the Battle of the Bulge where both sides meet at a cabin and have a truce for the night, and the other version is a good old slasher movie with Santa Claus....both have the same movie title of Silent Night.

I have no idea all the rules and such, I'll leave that to the experts, but don't think this would be the first where something named the same....although I fully understand there has to be some rules governing it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 04:43:08 PM by Grim.Reaper »

Offline airboy

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2020, 04:42:57 PM »
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D

I testified in Federal Court on a trademark issue that was less explicit than this one.

Normal procedure in these cases is:
1] Person who has the rights to the name, trademark, or used it first writes a letter.  Sometimes it is a "cease and desist" and other times it is just "lets work this out."
2] If step 1 does not work, then they go to court.

It seems to me that the two parties could work this out of Shrapnel Games is upset.  "Pacific" is a geographic name and cannot be trademarked or copyrighted.  I have no idea how close "WarPlan" is to generic - if it is at all.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2020, 04:59:19 PM »
^ Yeah, my thought was that "war plan" seems too generic to hold up in court, unless Shrapnel specifically filed for a trademark on that term in relation to computer wargames.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline smittyohio

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2020, 07:11:10 PM »
Does Shrapnel own a trademark on the term "War Plan"?  If not, then it's not an issue - they don't own the words "war plan" or "pacific" just because they released a game under that title.

In any case, I find the thought of Shrapnel taking MG to court over this highly amusing.   ;D

Maybe Shrapnel can use the funds to finish 82nd Airborne.     :D  :uglystupid2: ;D :wow:

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2020, 08:05:11 PM »
 :DD Yeah, that's assuming Microsoft doesn't release any new OS within the next 15 years, destroying all their hard work.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
- Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian


If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
- Silent Disapproval Robot


I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
- MengJiao

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2020, 09:17:56 PM »
The bane of most "Pacific" games in the past has usually been the AI. So it will be interesting to see how they do with that.
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Offline smittyohio

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2020, 06:30:33 AM »
:DD Yeah, that's assuming Microsoft doesn't release any new OS within the next 15 years, destroying all their hard work.

LOL, I saw that excuse last night on their forums.   What a moronic thing to blame.   

Offline CJReich46

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2020, 02:31:38 PM »
I was a beta tester on Warplan. I might apply to this but I have commitments to another beta which I can't disclose.

But regarding the name to avoid confusion with War Plan Pacific, why not change or alter the name to avoid confusion. Remember all the crap EA gave Slitherine over Battlefield Academy? Or how King wanted to sue Stoic over the use of the word "Saga" for their game "The Banner Saga."  However I doubt Shrapnel has the lawyers.

Some suggestions would be simple:

Warplan: The Pacific.  Warplan: Pacific Theater  for example.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 06:10:26 PM by CJReich46 »
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Offline The_Admiral

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2020, 07:50:12 PM »
The bane of most "Pacific" games in the past has usually been the AI. So it will be interesting to see how they do with that.

Amen.
As would might expect, AI hates that big bunch of nothing that is the PTO. AI works so much better when put on rails - and them rails are nowhere to be seen in the vastness of ocean.
Don't get me started me on this though, we're sweating for our own game enough like that ^^

Offline FarAway Sooner

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2020, 08:46:08 PM »
If they really want to be sure to avoid a nasty law suit, Matrix could just call it:  Pacific, WarPlan

My sense is that most wargames struggle to vividly combine multiple arms in a way that is deeply satisfying.  They  might do the ground war well, but they typically abstract the air war in some detail and leave the naval war piece out of it.  Or they get the naval war piece right...

The Pacific, more than any other theater in WW II, had moments where each piece was remarkably important.  The roles played by land-based air, carrier air, surface ships, and submarines were more varied and nuanced than in the Atlantic, where it all came down to how everything was used against U-boats/shipping (depending on whether you're Axis or Allies).

In the Pacific, surface combat happened less often, but still figures prominently in the lore of the theater for both fleets.  Ground combat mattered, but primarily just in terms of securing air bases or potential air bases for land-based air and was typically concentrated on mighty small islands.  The only real exception to this might be the fighting in Papua/New Guinea. 

The ground combat certainly mattered to the people who were fighting it, but I've never seen any wargames that really captured the atmosphere of the land fighting in the Pacific.  Then again, maybe I'm just not getting out of the house enough?

Offline The_Admiral

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Re: Matrixgames Warplan Pacific??
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2020, 10:43:57 PM »
Well, my understanding from the screenshots (you can see a few on the wargamer.com https://www.wargamer.com/articles/warplan-pacific/ ) is that the war in China and in Burma will absolutely be part of the deal - which makes it all the more of a challenge. Asking an AI to be able to manage two aspects of a very, very different conflict with wildly different characteristics (to the point it feels like you need two different games) has always been quite a challenge few have beaten successfully in the past. I wish them all the luck in doing so, it's quite the endeavour indeed!