Author Topic: War in the east 2 coming soon  (Read 8509 times)

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Online Pete Dero

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #120 on: July 05, 2021, 02:50:37 AM »
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.

It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.

I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.

Like you said it is a personal preference.

If have trouble getting my head around WitpAE : did I give all my units orders, ...
I know it might also be because the scope is different but I prefer the way WITE2 works.

Offline The_Admiral

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #121 on: July 05, 2021, 05:20:08 AM »
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.

It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.


If I may - honestly I can't really subscribe to this analysis - although I am a WitP AE and a seasoned player. WitP works only properly as a WEGO title because of its time scale (1 day/turn) and would be unplayable otherwise. The consequence is that it pretty much makes it unplayable on the long run in a multiplayer game, especially with that old PBEM tech (but you can't have it both ways). Let's be honest, the other scales that were available back then (I don't remember, there was a 3 days turn thing too right?) were just not adapted to the topic.

WitE has a much longer time unit for each turn, on a terrain that favours mobile warfare. Let's not forget that the only actual combat units that might not take a dozen turns to move from an hex to another are warships - and when an encounter happens, it is solved in a number of ways that all still remain quite relatable on the realism scale. Ships don't start next to each other along a frontline either.

What I mean is that WitP is a beautiful affair that I'd love to revisit with a modern network system (actual WEGO where both sides give orders simultaneously & resolve the turn together, free of the limitations of email-based systems) but it doesn't prove much when it comes to the gameplay of a Eastern Front game. My humble 2 cents  :coolsmiley:

Offline bobarossa

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #122 on: July 05, 2021, 10:41:23 AM »
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).

That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn.  I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.

Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
My memories from 25 years ago stand corrected.

Offline Atilla60

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #123 on: July 05, 2021, 11:40:00 AM »
"Joel Billings -> RE: Why IGOUGO and not WEGO? (12/9/2015 4:13:20 PM)

Gary's War in the East games in the 80s and 90s were WEGO games, War in Russia (1984), Second Front (1990) and GG's War in Russia (1993).

That is factually wrong.
Those titles were IGOUGO turn based games.
Not true, I played War in Russia and Second Front and you entered your orders using the keypad and orders were executed when you ended turn.  I remember entering delays to try to execute pincer movements.

Yeah, You entered YOUR turn in pulses that were executed when you ended YOUR turn.
THEN the AI/oponent entered his orders and executed HIS turn.
Hence, IGOUGO
My memories from 25 years ago stand corrected.

oohh been there done that  :)
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Offline Atilla60

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #124 on: July 05, 2021, 11:53:12 AM »
WitP works only properly as a WEGO title because of its time scale (1 day/turn) and would be unplayable otherwise
I'll argue that the detail level in the game makes anything but a 1 day turn cycle meaningless.
WEGO or IGOUGO is a design choice and since my preference is WEGO, I agree it would be unplayable otherwise. :)

The consequence is that it pretty much makes it unplayable on the long run in a multiplayer game, especially with that old PBEM tech
I have to disagree with you here. I played a PBEM game (the full game) from December 7. 41 to 28. of August 1945,1 day turns, with no problems whatsoever. Had it not been for the email-option that would have never happened.

the other scales that were available back then (I don't remember, there was a 3 days turn thing too right?) were just not adapted to the topic.
The turn cycle options are: 1,2,3,4 or continuous. I'm not sure how continuous turns work, I never looked into it, but those are implemented.

WitE has a much longer time unit for each turn, on a terrain that favours mobile warfare. Let's not forget that the only actual combat units that might not take a dozen turns to move from an hex to another are warships
Good point.

What I mean is that WitP is a beautiful affair that I'd love to revisit with a modern network system (actual WEGO where both sides give orders simultaneously & resolve the turn together, free of the limitations of email-based systems) but it doesn't prove much when it comes to the gameplay of a Eastern Front game. My humble 2 cents
Actually I like the email-system. It doesn't require both players to be online at the same time. Which opens up for a host of other issues. RL events and time zones for example.

Anyway.
I'm not comparing WitP-AE and WitE-2. I don't think that would be fair to either game.
What I'm saying is that, when talking turn based games, it is a design-choice whether a game is IGOUGO or WEGO. Not a question of people's ability to cope with complex games. That's why I mentioned WitP-AE in the first place.
And when it comes to the potential customer, it's very much a question of personal preferences.

I'm not sure if that qualifies as an analysis. I call it an observation.  :)

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Offline Atilla60

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2021, 12:07:22 PM »
As a veteran SPI War in the East and FITE/Scorched Earth board game player I cannot imagine why WEGO PC games would be too much to handle. It is what we dreamed of in the 70s and 80s.

It's not, WitPAE is proof of that. It's merely a matter of personal preferences.

I really want to like WITE 2, but the IGOUGO is too much of a barrier for me.

Like you said it is a personal preference.

If have trouble getting my head around WitpAE : did I give all my units orders, ...
I know it might also be because the scope is different but I prefer the way WITE2 works.

On the bright side. If you forget a unit or two, it's really not that much of an issue if you play 1 day turns.
Frustrating and annoying? Absolutely, but not an issue.
Besides, if you have played 4 or 5 turns of WitE 2, can you honestly say that you haven't missed a unit?  ;)
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Online Pete Dero

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #126 on: July 05, 2021, 01:07:35 PM »
can you honestly say that you haven't missed a unit?  ;)

Every time I loose that is my excuse ...  >:D

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #127 on: July 05, 2021, 01:42:34 PM »
Interesting analysis of War in the East 2 by a defense writer at Foreign Policy:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/07/04/war-in-the-east-2-wargame-russia-stopped-hitler/

The guy goes out of his way to sing WitE2s praises. I agree with his assessment fully.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 01:44:19 PM by ArizonaTank »
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Offline al_infierno

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #128 on: July 05, 2021, 04:01:50 PM »
^ Great article, thanks for sharing!
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge.  War endures.  As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.  That is the way it was and will be.  That way and not some other way.
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If they made nothing but WWII games, I'd be perfectly content.  Hypothetical matchups from alternate history 1980s, asymmetrical US-bashes-some-3rd world guerillas, or minor wars between Upper Bumblescum and outer Kaboomistan hold no appeal for me.
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I guess it's sort of nice that the word "tactical" seems to refer to some kind of seriousness during your moments of mental clarity.
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Online Pete Dero

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Re: War in the east 2 coming soon
« Reply #129 on: July 07, 2021, 02:56:05 AM »
I had some issues with the text in game.

I found this solution on the Matrix forums and this might be useful to other people with Nvidea cards :

Enabling FXAA makes all text very blurry. Disabling it fixed the issue.  Works for WITE1, WITE2 and WITW.


« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 03:06:57 AM by Pete Dero »