Author Topic: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released  (Read 1316 times)

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Offline Staggerwing

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Re: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2021, 07:42:04 PM »
Frisian Hair...oh dear.

Frisian Horse hair, maybe...
Vituš ér enn - eša hvat?  -Voluspa

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Offline MengJiao

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Re: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2021, 07:01:08 AM »
Can you win as mexico or just hope the U.S. mismanages it's troops long enough for a political victory?

    I think Mexico can win at least against the AI by cutting supply after luring the US forces (on the two northern routes first) and leaving them in the "nightmare of Logistics in early 19th century Mexico".  I think a human USA will probably win most of the time.

    Or maybe tornados or epidemics or rampaging indians or some steam frigate raiders will get those Gringos!

    Or you can wait for them to fall through a crack in the universe and turn into Finland (which just happened)

    Yes, Mexico can win...I wonder if any human players have ever played Mexico?  The two Stream frigates (if not sold to Spain) can wipe out the entire US navy... and if you:
   Let Monterrey fall, thus triggering the US concentration at Vera Cruz and then counter attack up north while the US is trying to shift everything into Vera cruz, you can take Texas...this triggers a
puzzling moment for the US...Can they win the war and lose the army, the navy and Texas?  Fortunately the game stops before Daniel Webster says they have won the war despite losing the Army, the Navy and Texas.  The naval war is perhaps the weirdest thing -- clearly nobody playtested what would happen if the Frigates sank all the US transports and the entire US Navy.  Moreover, most naval battles trigger a fall out of the universe and into a strange French-speaking underworld where Mexico is played by the USSR and the USA is Finland.  Fortunately a quick restart of the game fixes that so that the US navy can be wiped out.
   So, yes, Mexico can win at least against the AI.

   Playing as the US now.  The US has a pretty big army.  I didn't see it much at all when I was Mexico.  I'm guessing they were on all those transports I sank.

   checking on the Historical attack -- The main US Army was only shipped from Tampico to Vera Cruz so the key to destroying the US Army is to avoid that fairly good approach by:
   1) losing Monterrey as quickly as possible thus triggering the US shipment to Vera Cruz EARLY...
   1.5) you might need to have your Frigates sighted off New Orleans to trigger some weird AI behavior
   2) as the US army comes in (without reaching Tampico)...the AI loads them bit-by-bit onto transports which you then sink
   3) so the US army is either pinned down in Vera Cruz (the survivors are anyway)
   4) or being systematically hunted down in Texas
   5) in any case by turn 44 the US has only a very diseased army in Vera Cruz and no navy and Mexico has Texas and Mexico wins 40 to 7 without a word from the Whigs
   6) so against the AI the Mexican aim is not to get the Whigs to call the war off, but to destroy the US Army and Navy and take Texas, by triggering an early US landing in Vera Cruz

Offline nobodyjune61944

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Re: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2021, 07:18:15 AM »
^ First, congratulations on your win!   :notworthy:

But this seems like a pretty "gamey" victory against the AI.  Skillful use of the Mexican fleet and putting a scare into the USA by being sighted near New Orleans is great - but a weird trigger for Vera Cruz?

Offline MengJiao

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Re: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2021, 07:30:51 AM »
^ First, congratulations on your win!   :notworthy:

But this seems like a pretty "gamey" victory against the AI.  Skillful use of the Mexican fleet and putting a scare into the USA by being sighted near New Orleans is great - but a weird trigger for Vera Cruz?

  Yes...all by accident, but it's worth noting that historically, most of the landing force of 13000 at Vera Cruz came from Taylor's northern Army (8000 of 13000) and were shipped from ports all over northern Mexico.  In the game, I guess about 5000 US troops made it to Vera Cruz, while most of Taylor's force was either sunk on transports or hunted down in Texas.  Also of course, historically, Taylor agreed to an armistice with Mexico after taking Monterrey.  As the US, it seems like you can just crush Mexico by grinding south from Monterrey, though I have to see how the cards play with the invasion force at Vera Cruz.
 Maybe they just get dropped there.  Historically on the other hand, the 13000 men of Scott's Vera Cruz force only assembled at sea off Lobos Island near Tampico.

Offline Philthib

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Re: SGS Halls of Montezuma Released
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2021, 12:09:27 AM »
Can you win as mexico or just hope the U.S. mismanages it's troops long enough for a political victory?
The naval war is perhaps the weirdest thing -- clearly nobody playtested what would happen if the Frigates sank all the US transports and the entire US Navy. 

Well, as you rightly say, no human player let this happen. We also included some 'redress' event where, if Mexico does not sell the frigates, the US Navy gets a few extra ones of its own