Author Topic: A quick recommendation please  (Read 1115 times)

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Offline acctingman

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A quick recommendation please
« on: June 02, 2021, 03:48:40 PM »
Hey folks

Just a quick simple recommendation from you more experienced gamers. At some point I want to buy WitE2 and WitW2(when ever that might be) but both games are WAY over my head.

I was thinking of getting into a series of games that would help transition myself to tackle these larger more complex games.

Of these three, which would you recommend I get into first?

Unity of Command 2, Decisive Campaign series or Strategic Command WW2:Europe?

Thanks for your time.

Offline CptHowdy

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2021, 04:33:27 PM »
I would just buy witw2 and wite2 and play the smaller scenarios. Why learn different ui's and rules. Would be confusing for me at least.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 04:45:28 PM »
The highly experienced players like myself (49 years in the hobby) tend to buy games and never play them at all. Then you don't have to worry about being overwhelmed by the rules :D  Seriously, if you are new to gaming, you might try something like War Plan or Campaign Barbarossa
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 04:47:30 PM by Tripoli »
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Offline nelmsm

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 04:54:37 PM »
I would just buy witw2 and wite2 and play the smaller scenarios. Why learn different ui's and rules. Would be confusing for me at least.

Just go ahead and get WitE2 now and start with the smaller scenarios and work your way up.  Watch the tutorials from Strategy Gaming Dojo and you'll do fine.  None of the other games really have a system that is close so you had just as well start out with it.  You can put as much into it or as little into it as you want.  You can automate the air war and depot management which to me are the two hardest things to learn.  Play with those automated until you are comfortable with the ground war and then add on as you go.

Online Geezer

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 04:59:11 PM »
Agree with nelmsm that Strategy Dojo has two excellent series on Youtube.  One is a tutorial and the other is a Let's Play.   They will help you get into WitE2 so if that's the game you want then go for it.
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.  George Bernard Shaw

Offline acctingman

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 12:45:00 AM »
I know they're different scale games but would the John tiller campaign series be a little easier to digest?

Offline Destraex

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 03:29:54 AM »
acctingman you have been on this forum a very long time and I assume you play a fair few games. Having said this I imagine it is just this genre that is seemingly "opaque" to you. If I am right I know what you mean. Because grand strategies are turn based, I baulk at spending the time to familiarise myself with the common concepts for playing them. The modus operandum that applies to grand strategy games. I don't like what is usually very shallow underlying mechanics for deciding what happens "by the numbers". It would be different for a WEGO grand strategy. I'd probably be all over that even with the X + Y + officer training + other modifiers + dice for chance = result approach.

Having said all of this. If I was going to try to choose a game for you that showed you the genre's "modus operandum" and general way of doing things without being born of an opaque interface which made things hard to learn. I would have no idea what to choose. I simply cannot think of any simple grand strategy games that show you how the more complex ones do things.
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Offline acctingman

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2021, 07:26:34 AM »
acctingman you have been on this forum a very long time and I assume you play a fair few games. Having said this I imagine it is just this genre that is seemingly "opaque" to you. If I am right I know what you mean. Because grand strategies are turn based, I baulk at spending the time to familiarise myself with the common concepts for playing them. The modus operandum that applies to grand strategy games. I don't like what is usually very shallow underlying mechanics for deciding what happens "by the numbers". It would be different for a WEGO grand strategy. I'd probably be all over that even with the X + Y + officer training + other modifiers + dice for chance = result approach.

Having said all of this. If I was going to try to choose a game for you that showed you the genre's "modus operandum" and general way of doing things without being born of an opaque interface which made things hard to learn. I would have no idea what to choose. I simply cannot think of any simple grand strategy games that show you how the more complex ones do things.

I need my morning caffeine to read this :D What I think you're saying is just buy the damn game and jump in?  :-\

Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2021, 07:34:38 AM »
acctingman you have been on this forum a very long time and I assume you play a fair few games. Having said this I imagine it is just this genre that is seemingly "opaque" to you. If I am right I know what you mean. Because grand strategies are turn based, I baulk at spending the time to familiarise myself with the common concepts for playing them. The modus operandum that applies to grand strategy games. I don't like what is usually very shallow underlying mechanics for deciding what happens "by the numbers". It would be different for a WEGO grand strategy. I'd probably be all over that even with the X + Y + officer training + other modifiers + dice for chance = result approach.

Having said all of this. If I was going to try to choose a game for you that showed you the genre's "modus operandum" and general way of doing things without being born of an opaque interface which made things hard to learn. I would have no idea what to choose. I simply cannot think of any simple grand strategy games that show you how the more complex ones do things.

I need my morning caffeine to read this :D What I think you're saying is just buy the damn game and jump in?  :-\

I think what he is saying, and which I agree, is that no other game is going to "prepare" you for a transition to a deeper game that is based off of an entirely different system.

What is it exactly that you struggle with? Is the mechanical aspects of a complex game (i.e. its rules, user interface, data management systems and interpretation of this data, etc.) or is it the more substantive strategic nuance of managing operational sized units across many fields of arms (i.e. land, sea and air)?  If it is the former, I think you're SOL and if you want to play games like WitE and WitW, you just need to bite the bullet and jump in. If its the latter, then perhaps you can gain some valuable insight by playing set piece portions of larger battles and commanding various size units that you can increase over time as you get more comfortable with the nuance of ever higher command.  In addition, historical study of OOBs, TOEs, and general staff decision-making as it happened during the war can be very helpful too. First try to recreate events as they transpired and then as you get more comfortable, try different things or experiment with different theories.

Remember...its only a game. If you lose, nobody dies and you can start over. Have fun!
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Offline acctingman

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2021, 08:07:48 AM »
acctingman you have been on this forum a very long time and I assume you play a fair few games. Having said this I imagine it is just this genre that is seemingly "opaque" to you. If I am right I know what you mean. Because grand strategies are turn based, I baulk at spending the time to familiarise myself with the common concepts for playing them. The modus operandum that applies to grand strategy games. I don't like what is usually very shallow underlying mechanics for deciding what happens "by the numbers". It would be different for a WEGO grand strategy. I'd probably be all over that even with the X + Y + officer training + other modifiers + dice for chance = result approach.

Having said all of this. If I was going to try to choose a game for you that showed you the genre's "modus operandum" and general way of doing things without being born of an opaque interface which made things hard to learn. I would have no idea what to choose. I simply cannot think of any simple grand strategy games that show you how the more complex ones do things.

I need my morning caffeine to read this :D What I think you're saying is just buy the damn game and jump in?  :-\

I think what he is saying, and which I agree, is that no other game is going to "prepare" you for a transition to a deeper game that is based off of an entirely different system.

What is it exactly that you struggle with? Is the mechanical aspects of a complex game (i.e. its rules, user interface, data management systems and interpretation of this data, etc.) or is it the more substantive strategic nuance of managing operational sized units across many fields of arms (i.e. land, sea and air)?  If it is the former, I think you're SOL and if you want to play games like WitE and WitW, you just need to bite the bullet and jump in. If its the latter, then perhaps you can gain some valuable insight by playing set piece portions of larger battles and commanding various size units that you can increase over time as you get more comfortable with the nuance of ever higher command.  In addition, historical study of OOBs, TOEs, and general staff decision-making as it happened during the war can be very helpful too. First try to recreate events as they transpired and then as you get more comfortable, try different things or experiment with different theories.

Remember...its only a game. If you lose, nobody dies and you can start over. Have fun!

Honestly, purchase anxiety!  :idiot2:

I've bought so many games over the years (not just wargames) that have been disappointing, but I really crave something with some depth. I did try HoT4 and I just couldn't get into that, hence my trepidation over WitE/W. I've tried the RTS games and even with slowing them down they just don't scratch that itch. I've realized I'm a turn based guy. The Panzer Corps and Battle Academy's of the world are just kind of boring these days. They have their place for sure, but I've done most of them.

Time to take the plunge and mentally prepare myself to take things slow and know I'm going to get my ass handed to me...a lot.

Thanks for the sage advice all.

Offline Gusington

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2021, 08:10:08 AM »
^I feel that way occasionally too and then I remember, as JH said, no one died, and the only answering I have to do is to The Wife and The Wallet.

'You're gonna be ok, say the Goddamned words...'
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Offline solops

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2021, 08:14:18 AM »
I am saving my money for WitE3.
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Offline acctingman

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2021, 08:16:20 AM »
^I feel that way occasionally too and then I remember, as JH said, no one died, and the only answering I have to do is to The Wife and The Wallet.

'You're gonna be ok, say the Goddamned words...'

Oh shit....the wife! :o

Offline acctingman

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2021, 08:17:40 AM »
I am saving my money for WitE3.

Solops..not a fan of WitE2? I feel I'll be dead by the time 3 comes out. I prefer the Western theater over the Eastern theater, so I might go that route.

Offline Gusington

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Re: A quick recommendation please
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2021, 08:30:25 AM »
^So much for 'nobody died.'
"I'm not even dead and I'm rolling over in my grave."

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