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Started by renobe, May 10, 2013, 10:53:43 PM

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Grim.Reaper

Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 10, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
What's the verdict on the PS4? Did Sony spill the beans yet?

Their presser doesn't start for at least another...20 minutes yet.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 10, 2013, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on June 10, 2013, 03:33:21 PM
The MS Press Conference was complete fail btw...

Pretty much. A few good games on display, but their complete lack of any attempt to swing their press around was a massive miss. Also, $499 in the US, 499 Euros in Europe and 429 Pounds in the UK...seriously?

If Sony can't come away with a win competing with THAT, they're incompetent.

Is that going to be the normal price for it, or is that just for a special day one version?  If that is the normal price, that is going to be tough for me to buy since I only play a handful of sports games on it.  Can't see spending $500.

Yep, that's the price.


Wow....it will be a sad day when I can't play madden:(

Arctic Blast

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 10, 2013, 07:24:03 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 10, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
What's the verdict on the PS4? Did Sony spill the beans yet?

Their presser doesn't start for at least another...20 minutes yet.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 10, 2013, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on June 10, 2013, 03:33:21 PM
The MS Press Conference was complete fail btw...

Pretty much. A few good games on display, but their complete lack of any attempt to swing their press around was a massive miss. Also, $499 in the US, 499 Euros in Europe and 429 Pounds in the UK...seriously?

If Sony can't come away with a win competing with THAT, they're incompetent.

Is that going to be the normal price for it, or is that just for a special day one version?  If that is the normal price, that is going to be tough for me to buy since I only play a handful of sports games on it.  Can't see spending $500.

Yep, that's the price.


Wow....it will be a sad day when I can't play madden:(

Especially Madden with the all new True Step Locomotion and Player Sense systems! Seriously, every damn game in the EA Sports lineup had cute little buzzwords for new tech. It was incredibly obnoxious.

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 07:28:18 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 10, 2013, 07:24:03 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 10, 2013, 06:30:57 PM
What's the verdict on the PS4? Did Sony spill the beans yet?

Their presser doesn't start for at least another...20 minutes yet.

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on June 10, 2013, 05:42:31 PM
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 10, 2013, 04:02:34 PM
Quote from: Grimnirsson on June 10, 2013, 03:33:21 PM
The MS Press Conference was complete fail btw...

Pretty much. A few good games on display, but their complete lack of any attempt to swing their press around was a massive miss. Also, $499 in the US, 499 Euros in Europe and 429 Pounds in the UK...seriously?

If Sony can't come away with a win competing with THAT, they're incompetent.

Is that going to be the normal price for it, or is that just for a special day one version?  If that is the normal price, that is going to be tough for me to buy since I only play a handful of sports games on it.  Can't see spending $500.

Yep, that's the price.


Wow....it will be a sad day when I can't play madden:(

Especially Madden with the all new True Step Locomotion and Player Sense systems! Seriously, every damn game in the EA Sports lineup had cute little buzzwords for new tech. It was incredibly obnoxious.

I wonder if any of there new buzzwords translates into a more realistic experience:)

Arctic Blast

#18
Well, it's official. PS4 allows used games. No online authentication. No restrictions on trading with friends. Nothing like that at all. They did announce that Playstation Plus is now a paid service, but I don't see that being an issue so long as the money is pumped back in to the system.

I'll put the over/under on Microsoft announcing some changes to their DRM/online/used plans at about 2 weeks.

And the PS4 is $399. Unfortunately, it's also followed the MS lead and made it 399 Euros and 329 Pounds. So again, this seems very North America centered.

Grimnirsson

Wasn't Playstation Plus always a paid service? But online gaming was free - so is this the same now? You can play for free but get a few goodies if you pay?
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W8taminute

#20
I'm a little confused too.  PS + was always a pay service but if all you were interested in was playing multiplayer online with friends you could do that for free.

Does this mean the PS4 is following XBOX Live and making you pay to play multiplayer online games?  Even if that is true however I'm beginning to think PS4 is the way to go.  From what little I have heard the PS4 does not spy on you like the XBOX One does and now you can play used games or share your games with friends so that's a great thing.


EDIT:  Forgot to mention about the pricing scheme that both Sony and MS are taking with the new consoles.  Yes it does sound like the systems are targeting North America and shafting the rest of the world.  I'm thinking they are going to take a loss on systems sold in North America but will make up some of the difference by taking it from the rest of the world.  It's a cheap trick and I'm surprised they think they can get away with that.
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

renobe

Quote from: Grimnirsson on June 10, 2013, 11:12:52 AM
Sure it's correct...The XBOX ONE must be online once a day, not the Xbox 360 or the PS4...


Sorry. I guess I showed my ignorance about consoles which initiated the starting of this thread by me. I thought that XBOX ONE was a newer version of XBox 360. I wonder though  if game developers will abandon XBox for XBOX ONE .

Grimnirsson

Xbox 360 will have support for some time, expect some great games in the future while you enjoy all the fantastic ones already available :)
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www.homefrontcenter.de

W8taminute

#23
When I read this review and got to the part that mentions the THUNDEROUS ROAR of the crowd when Sony announced you can play used games or let friends borrow your games without paying any fees I almost cried tears of joy.  Sony has won back the hardcore console gamer in me!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/11/ps4-vs-xbox-one-e3-2013


EDIT:  Will Sony deliver the death blow to MS the way they did to the Sega Saturn?  I really hope so because those bastards at MS need to learn a lesson about greed and what it gets you.
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

Grimnirsson

#24
If MS does not change their policies they are out...the PS4 will rule and I will support it (thanks MS, I really was an Xbox fanboy)

"Francis" the disappointed Xbox fanboy sums it up pretty well (love that guy :) )

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www.homefrontcenter.de

Arctic Blast

A few thoughts after a day to reflect.

You will see some changes in MS policies, but they won't be as far-reaching as you might expect...because in a lot of ways, the two systems aren't actually that different.

Sony promised that all first party titles will work used, be trade-able and have no online authentication. BUT, it's up to individual third party publishers to decide what their games will allow. And that's actually the same way the used games and lending policies work on the XBox One. And I don't think these two aspects will end up being as problematic as many are expecting simply because few third party publishers want to be known as the guys who require that sort of nonsense.

Where I suspect you WILL see a big change in MS policies is in regards to game authentication. Currently, your Xbox One needs to run an online check once every 24 hours. If it can't, some games might be locked out until it can do so again. I would expect this to be drastically altered. If that ends up happening, the two systems are virtually identical in terms of user rights. The only other real difference is that the new XBox will install games to the hard drive like a PC, while the PS4 won't require that (again, it's up to the publisher if it runs from disc or not).

The new Playstation Online fees are in regards to multiplayer access. Basically, PS Online is now essentially the same as XBox Live Gold. You can still access updates and the like for free, same as with XBL Silver. But MP and access to services like Netflix require a paid membership. And both services will now include free older games as part of the paid service.

So now you're down to price points. I wouldn't be surprised to see MS start building up new bundles, where their system includes a couple of extras to make up some of the dollar difference.

If MS adds extra value to their system and cleans up authentication rules, the only real concern would remain the always-on Kinect. And that could also be changed.

One other thing that nobody else is talking about right now is how utterly screwed Nintendo currently is. The Wii U was expected to be substantially cheaper than the competition, but it's only $50 less than the announced PS4 price point. It was already struggling due to the death spiral of 'no games to pull in buyers, no buyers to pull in developers'. Now it's in serious trouble, and Nintendo has not been doing well financially of late. Then again, neither has Sony. Their games division has made solid money, but the rest of the corporation has had its ass kicked in this latest round of consumer electronics.

Mr. Bigglesworth

"Sony also sought to distinguish its games machine by announcing it would not introduce any new restrictions on pre-owned disc-based games bought from friends or retailers, nor would it require users to regularly authenticate their machines via the internet to allow games to continue being played.
By contrast, Microsoft has introduced limitations on who consumers can buy second-hand titles from and has introduced a requirement to connect to the net once every 24-hours to play games on the Xbox One.
"With Sony continually pushing their gaming credentials and the development of the PlayStation brand for gamers throughout their presentation - it has very publicly slapped Microsoft across the face," said Alex Simmons, UK Editor-in-Chief of news site IGN.com. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22850409
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

W8taminute

Serious food for thought.  There is no way I'm buying anything on day one until everything has been sorted out.  Whatever happens however, the days of the hardcore console gamer who buys systems just to game seem numbered.  PC and XBOX 360 are looking like the way I'll be going for the foreseeable future.
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk

Hiimori

#28
As a dedicated XBox 360 gamer, I was also looking forward to Xbox One. Well, I was a huge Playstation fan in the 90s and I loved my PS1, so I'm not ideologically limited to the Xbox brand. But I was certainly interested in buying a Xbox One to carry over the cool stuff from XBox 360 (Gamertag, Achievements).

Now I'm quite certain that my next gen console will be a PS4 and not an XBox One. In my opinion, MS disqualified themselves with so many annoying points that the sum has become intolerable. So here's my rant!!   ;D

- Always On / every 24 hour connect.
Well, I'm lucky to live in an area with very good broadband connections, I have 16+ Mbit DSL and all online devices in my home are connected most of the time (IP television, smartphone, PC, XBox 360...). BUT there are times when there is no internet available - technical issues, road constructions which cut a cable, the stupid provider... if this happens, I will not be able to play any offline single player games for more than 24 hours because I cannot reconnect? Come on!

What's even worse - I don't know why Microsoft's Don Mattrick speaks of "extreme scenarios" where people don't have broadband, for example on submarines. I don't know how things are in the US, but over here, there are still large areas without adequate broadband connection - you don't even have to be deployed to Afghanistan or live on a submarine, it's sufficient enough to live in central Europe. There isn't any adequate (>=2 MBit) broadband for the people in the smaller villages around our area. And telling them to use a mobile phone connection instead isn't helping much, this is crappy in many areas as well, and also more expensive because most mobile contracts are volumina restricted.

Official statement:
QuoteWith Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies.
Yeah, thank you, that's SO generous! But I already have a Blu Ray player and a TV.

I'm also quite annoyed by MS's arrogance regarding this problem - the best example is the latest E3 quote by Don Mattrick: "Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity. It's called XBox 360"

No, it's called PS4. Hinting people at a last-gen console when they can't play with the next gen console is LAME. PS4 can't be played offline without ever being connected to the internet. Never ever.

- DRM Management
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 11, 2013, 08:19:02 PM
Sony promised that all first party titles will work used, be trade-able and have no online authentication. BUT, it's up to individual third party publishers to decide what their games will allow. And that's actually the same way the used games and lending policies work on the XBox One.

And I don't think these two aspects will end up being as problematic as many are expecting simply because few third party publishers want to be known as the guys who require that sort of nonsense.

No, I don't think that's the same way on both consoles. According to Sony, you can lend your game to a friend, sell it, give it for free, buy it used and play it, or keep it forever. If a publisher uses their own DRM system, so what - it will be a code (like an online pass etc.), but it won't force the PS4 to connect to the internet every 24 hours to confirm this code. It will be more like it is today on both the XBox 360 and the PS3 and I can live with that. If a publisher annoys me with regulations, codes, and other stuff, I don't buy their games, but it's always my choice. I did this with some EA games in the past and I'm not afraid to do this again.

MSs policy is very obscure - you have to register each and every one of your games to your gamer account. You have a library in the cloud where "10 members of your family" can play your games (it's still unclear who is "family", whether they can play the same game simultaneously, or only a SP part of a game etc)., you can give your game once to a friend (but it will be erased from your console then and the feature will not be available at start), you cannot trade in games except by "participating resellers" (no more ebay, marketplace, or flea market), no more renting of games, and there will be online verification that your game is still your game and you didn't do anything forbidden with it by verifying your licence every 24 hours. No thank you. I just want to play a game, and when I'm through, if I want to give it to my friends, I will do this. These regulations are nontransparent, muddy, weird, Orwellian AND they can be changed anytime by MS at will.  If I buy a physical disc, I want to own it and do with it whatever I like. I don't want to buy a disc and only own a "licence" as I do with a downloadable title. That's silly and not consumer friendly. If I feel restriced by a product (and the XBox one is screaming "RESTRICTION" with everything it does) I'm not inclined to buy it.

In addition, every game is installed on your HDD as well as into the cloud. One time in the future, when Xbox Three is launched, and they shut down the services for Xbox One, you won't be able to play a single one of your old games again. You are a games collector? Too bad. I can (and do!) still play games on my beloved Sega Dreamcast. And I will be able to play PS4 games as long as my console lives, not as long as MS decides to provide you with a service which allows you to use your licence on their online services.

- Always on Kinect
I don't want Kinect. I don't need Kinect. I don't want to talk to my friends while playing Call of Duty by screaming into the room (over the shooting noise) and getting their answers out of my television speakers. I also don't want to talk to my Console or swipe with my hands. I'm perfectly content with a controller. A Kinect device which is always listening whether I say "XBox On" is as important to me as a bicycle for a fish.

- Pricing
Are you kidding me? Never heard of a currency converter? Even google can do the math! 499 $ = 375 Euros. 499 Euros = 663 $. Who in the US would pay 663$ for a console?!? So why should I?

- Television! Sports!
Cool, just what I needed - a machine to plug into my internet television receiver to watch television! Simultaneously while I'm playing a game, skyping with a friend AND searching the web for information about the movie. Great!

Besides the fact that when I'm playing a game, I'm playing a game, and the fact that I'm completely content with switching channels on my TV receiver with a remote control, most of the TV features will not be available in Europe! The same is true for most of the sports stuff like ESPN. And, which may hurt many Americans, nothing is as boring as football or baseball or basketball to the average European, so they can keep their exclusive 400 Million Dollar deal with EA. Services like Netflix don't work over here due to problems with rights and licensing, so we will always have a "light version" of all the awesome TV stuff (as it is now already on the XBox 360). I don't think these features will ever be so popular over here, so the XBox One is very US-centric and gives the European gamer the feeling of being a "customer second class" or "necessary evil".

@ArticBlast:
Quote from: Arctic Blast on June 11, 2013, 08:19:02 PM
The new Playstation Online fees are in regards to multiplayer access. Basically, PS Online is now essentially the same as XBox Live Gold. You can still access updates and the like for free, same as with XBL Silver. But MP and access to services like Netflix require a paid membership. And both services will now include free older games as part of the paid service.

No, as far as I know, both services are not identical. You now have to pay on PS4 to play the Multiplayer parts of games. But, as stated in the E3 press conference, all other services on PS4 - like Netflix, Hulu and other apps - don't require a Playstation Plus membership. You only need the PSN membership for MP games, that was confirmed at E3. In addition, Playstation Plus is much more attractive than Microsoft Gold because of the "instant game collection" you get for free. MS will start giving out 2 (older) titles per month to Gold members in July (with Assassins Creed 2 and Halo 3), but with PS Plus, you get tons of free games, and sometimes even recent ones and blockbusters.

- Misc stuff

The PS4 is confirmed to be region-free, so I can play imported games from the US and Japan. XBox One has a region lock.
PS4 is cheaper (but they don't use a currency converter either, which sucks - so 399 Euros = 530 $ launch price) and PS Eye is optional (unlike Kinect).
XBox One won't be downwards compatible, while PS4 will offer PS3 titles via Gaikai later in 2014.
PS4 uses DDR5 RAM while XBoxOne still uses the old DDR3.
You can change the in-built PS4 HDD by replacing it with a default retail HDD while you have to plug in an external HDD to your XBOX One (=another device next to your TV).
There is no XBox One exclusive title which forces me to buy XBox One (as did Halo 1 many years ago which forced me to buy the original XBox and Final Fantasy VII which convinced me to buy the PS1).
The chance of japanophile games is much higher on PS4 than on XBox One (I love Japanese RPGs).

99% of all games will be identical and will be published on both consoles. The difference is: when I finished playing my game on the PS4, I can give it for free to Grimnirsson. Even to W8aminute in the US (because there is no region lock). When I finished a game on XBox One, I can throw it in the thrash (actually, I can do this as soon as the game is installed because the disc isn't required afterwards due to the every-24 hour online verification process).

For me, there are so many reasons to switch back to Playstation in the next gen (plus: I can keep my XBox 360 because it will be supported with great games for the years to come, and I can't take my downloaded Arcade games with me to XBox One). The PS4 does exactly what I expect from a console: I plug it into my TV, I start a game, I play and when I'm done, I give the game away or lend me a game from a friend. Grimnirsson and I are exchanging games all the time. If I want to buy a game, I buy it new or I buy it used. I don't want to watch TV on a console, and I don't want to browse the internet on a console, and when I want to watch a movie, I use our Blu Ray player. What I expect from a console is GAMES and GAMING, nothing else, and I think that the PS4 will satisfy this need perfectly without annoying me with rubbish.

I really hope that XBox One will remain on the shelves when people switch camps after launch. People should vote with their Dollars until MS gives up all the mistrusting Orwell crap and changes the XBox One back to a regular game console. Just like the XBox 360, I was perfectly content with how they dealt with DRM, used games, and online stuff. I have no idea why they felt the need to make things worse - so worse that I'm feeling annoyed, not taken seriously as a consumer and a gamer, regimented, controlled, mistrusted and regulated by a device which was meant to support my hobby and provide me with hours of enjoyable leisure time.



PS: I deliberatley left the PC out of my rant; a PC is different thing altogether and out of the competition between consoles - I have a modern, strong gaming PC and things like Steam etc. have become quite common here (but PC games are much cheaper here, so this is a totally different thing). I always had and have a gaming console (or more consoles) next to my PC to play with a controller in my rocking armchair on my large TV screen without struggling with patches, installs, drivers, or OS. The simplicity of consoles is what I want for my optimal gaming experience. The fact that you need a PC for many genres (for example most strategy games), is out of the question and I swallow all frogs here because... it's a PC. Not a console. And not meant to be simple and user-friendly. 8)

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W8taminute

Well stated Hiimori.  I couldn't have said it better myself.


QuoteIn my opinion, MS disqualified themselves with so many annoying points that the sum has become intolerable.

Within the first 3 minutes of watching the video of XBOX One on 22.May I realized that XBOX One is not only not for me but it is an evil creepy spy device.

QuoteI don't want Kinect. I don't need Kinect.

I agree.  I bought Kinnect for XBOX 360, now I wish I could get my money back.  What a waste and it is a spy device plain and simple.


QuoteWhat I expect from a console is GAMES and GAMING, nothing else, and I think that the PS4 will satisfy this need perfectly without annoying me with rubbish.

Exactly.  Watching tv or a movie on a console is a complete waste of time and very stupid.  DVD players are so cheap nowadays as well as Blu Ray players.  Everybody has a decent tv these days.  LCD models while not cutting edge tech are very affordable.

QuoteThe PS4 is confirmed to be region-free, so I can play imported games from the US and Japan.

I had a conversation with my friend yesterday and he told me this news.  I was so happy.  I'm a big import gamer and love some of the Japanese games you cannot get in my country.  It's one of the main reasons why I bought the PS3 and the PSP.  Looks like I will be buying the PS4 therefor.


We all love our hobby and when a company like MS comes out and tells me I no longer own my games, I just rent them for a fee and a confirmation every 24hrs it really brings out the worst in emotions. 
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk