Graviteam Tactics: Mius-Front

[Moreb]

Is the Panther really a good tank. It's "love-hate" for me in War Thunder. Decent gun, good speed, strong front armour. But slow turret traverse and agonising reverse speed.

They were certainly plagued with many problems and if Steam wasn't being a pain in the arse for me I'd link a thread about it on the Mius Front forum.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I just threw a quick battle together where I took 2 Panther and 2 StuG III platoons along with a bunch of panzer grenadiers up against a Soviet defensive position with 76mm AT guns and Su-122s and a bunch of infantry.  The panthers ripped through the AT guns and SPGs and suffered only two damaged tanks in return (one got tracked and the other lost its radio and a periscope).  The grenadiers didn't fair too badly either.  Worse casualty was a fully laden halftrack that stumbled into some Russian slit trenches just inside a treeline.  They managed to lob a molotov right into the passenger compartment and cooked an entire squad.  Lost 15% of the infantry in confused fighting in the woods but the Bolsheviks lost 90% of theirs in return.

I still prefer the old interface from Achtung Panzer to Mius Front but the new tanks and camo schemes are purty!

The Chieftain does a nice three-part run through of the Panther and shows off its strengths and weaknesses.  The ergonomics inside the turret look terrible.

https://youtu.be/wKKktWu6Rh0

[sandman2575]

Is it that you do not like the single save or the fact that when you quit is the only time to save? Or both. Honestly I like that system as it forces you to trudge ahead with the results and sometimes they turn into great experiences where you can really feel the effects of your decisions.

There are ways to circumvent this of course, yet I never do.

To be honest, it's not much of an issue for me anymore because the G'team games are very stable on my PC.  But with Operation Star, I recall several painful instances where I had meticulously set up a campaign battle -- like, an hour-plus of set up time -- and then the game CTD's when I tried to save. It really irked me (and to some extent still does) that Andrey's completely inflexible take on the Save-and-Exit was that it was necessary to prevent cheating and exploiting. Fine, if you could make that an *option* and not force it down the player's throat. But the dogma of Save-and-Exit was not something that could be questioned -- I'm not exaggerating, Andrey could not at all see why anyone would want a regular 'save and continue playing' function, you know, the kind that pretty much 99% of all games use...

Anyway, it's not a big deal. And I know some of the confusion over what Andrey argues sometimes stems from language-barrier issues. But I've honestly never seen a group of devs *less* open to criticism, even constructive criticism, than Graviteam.

[Moreb]

I have gotten really used to the wheel and find it incredibly accessible for all of the different modifiers. To each his own though. What I do not care for is the sequence for spotters at all. I believe it is clunky and there is no information as to why things don't work with it sometimes. That and some of the modifiers are not very clear.

As far as andrey is concerned, he is certainly a polarizing figure in some ways.  But I do appreciate someone that sticks to their convictions. He will make changes that the community wants at times and at other times I feel he will not talk about his decision making. But that's his prerogative.

'Hi andrey, I'd like to have a little more control on xyz in the future.'

'No, in future you get less.'  :D

[jomni]

Are they worse than battlefront?

[Moreb]

Are they worse than battlefront?

[Moreb]

I again didn't get to play tonight but I am now looking at an issue a player has posted about concerning the new patch and the way units are brought to the front. It seems that units that moved in the Op phase will have fixed positions on the map. I think this will lead to dissatisfaction and I can't see where players will like it at all.

Andrey eluded to a new feature about a week ago they were discussing that would probably not be welcomed by players. I have a feeling this is it. I'll withhold judgement until I get to experience it but in the meantime illr follow the very passionate player that has and is now bringing it to attention.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/312980/discussions/0/1842440600619164657/

I could understand restricting the area of deployment for those units that moved into the area to within a certain parameter but locking them seems way too punishing and quite frankly, possibly unrealistic. It's as if they were caught moving when the battle started and I'm not sure if there is a process that calculates time in regards to those moving units.


Hmmmm

EDIT: I do remember those save problems you mentioned with op star sandman and found them extremely frustrating. I've had to restart battle a few times back then for the reasons you mentioned. Glad that part has been fixed. I forgot about that.

I'd never imply that this game is perfect. At least i hope that wasn't what it seems. In fact, it has its share of warts. Oddly, several of my favorite systems do. Maybe I'm just jaded to gravitate to such games? But what it gets right, and it gets very much right, it does so in ways other games in the genre cannot dream

Damn, i gotsta gets to bed

[Hofstadter]

Good god what a hell train for the germans. Swam of russian tanks all over the place and basically nowhere to hide. those pricks spawn ERRYWHERE

[sandman2575]

I again didn't get to play tonight but I am now looking at an issue a player has posted about concerning the new patch and the way units are brought to the front. It seems that units that moved in the Op phase will have fixed positions on the map. I think this will lead to dissatisfaction and I can't see where players will like it at all.

I changed my mind. This now replaces Save-and-Exit as the single stupidest 'feature' G'team has ever introduced into their games.

Watching Andrey defend this decision tooth and nail on Steam just reinforces what I wrote above. The dude can NOT stomach criticism. Every decision G'team makes is flawless and not open to question. He's ready with 3 dozen spurious 'defenses' of why G'team implemented this.

This seriously sucks. It's almost like Andrey and G'team take a perverse pleasure in alienating their fanbase.

If I wanted to be completely cynical, I'd say this latest 'feature' is a cover for bad tactical AI. And the tactical AI in G'team's games is not strong. I know it is extremely difficult to program this kind of AI -- hence Combat Mission's reliance on scripted AI. Nevertheless, this new positional randomization of units arriving on the battlefield 'evens the playing field' in that it puts the human player in an idiotic position to match the idiotic positioning of the AI units...

Just saw this -- the same rules do *not* apply to the AI, which frankly makes my cynical take on this move more credible:

"For AI, most of such restrictions do not make sense, as it moves after the player.
His restrictions are made in another way. More are in the area of combining battle groups and following the scenario of the operation. Unfortunately, such restrictions are not yet applicable for the player."

https://steamcommunity.com/app/312980/discussions/0/1842440600619164657/?ctp=4

[Jarhead0331]

If you really want to piss him off...tell him he should make a western front DLC.

[sandman2575]

LOL -- yeah, maybe I'll suggest they should really do a Normandy campaign...

[mikeck]

Even constructive criticism. One time I mentioned maybe adding some things to the manual explaining what some of the icons do instead of just what it is....and I think he wrote two paragraphs basically explaining why I was an idiot. I mean Jesus,  it's just a damn idea. he could've written the whole goddamn manual by the time he was finished  finished

Now I'm tempted to go on an asked for a western front DLC

[Ubercat]

Are they worse than battlefront?

It's hard to imagine anyone worse than BF but they may have managed it. Why does it always have to be the tactical level games producers that have contempt for their customers?  :(

I guess I need to finally buckle down and learn ASL on more than a superficial level if I want good squad level action.

[sandman2575]

Now I'm tempted to go on an asked for a western front DLC

Do it! And ask if they can make the game Free to Play while you're at it!

[Boggit]

If you really want to piss him off...tell him he should make a western front DLC.

:DD