http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19143281
"Sikhs living in the United States have expressed their shock and fear after a shooting at a temple in Wisconsin on Sunday which left seven people dead"
"Police have described it as a "domestic terrorist-type incident". The FBI are taking over the criminal investigation."
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/06/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html
"Wisconsin temple gunman was Army vet, possibly a white supremacist"
"Kanwardeep Singh Kaleka, a member of the temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, said those inside the gurdwara, or Sikh house of worship, described the attacker as a bald white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with a 9/11 tattoo on one arm -- which "implies to me that there's some level of hate crime there."
Tragic but wtf has a 911 tattoo got to do with hate crime. Looks like the media dogs gonna be pushing this in one direction.
http://rt.com/usa/news/wisconsin-shooting-temple-sikh-916/
photos of swat teams
When I first heard the news, my gut reaction was "some f*n' moron thinks everyone with a turban is a Muslim and wants 'revenge' for something..."
I was hoping that I was wrong, but it seems my fellow Americans will stop at nothing to make us all look like bigoted idiots.
+1
I was surprised to hear it was a white guy. My initial suspicion was that it was an extremist Sikh going after the moderates. We had a spate of violence between the moderate and orthodox Sikhs here in Vancouver a while back. They were going at each other with swords, daggers, and the occasional firearm over whether or not tables should be allowed in the temple.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on August 06, 2012, 07:27:41 AM
When I first heard the news, my gut reaction was "some f*n' moron thinks everyone with a turban is a Muslim and wants 'revenge' for something..."
I was hoping that I was wrong, but it seems my fellow Americans will stop at nothing to make us all look like bigoted idiots.
Why would you be surprised about this. According to Brad Garrett from ABC News, the mid-west is filled with racists;
http://www.700wlw.com/player/?station=WLW-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=scott_sloan.xml&mid=22323910
If you don't wish to listen to the podcast, he states that there have been 700 attacks against Sikhs.
It's disgusting.
I read somewhere that the shooter was a "white supremacist." With all the resources available to DHS, why wasn't there proper surveillance on a real threat?
http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-wade-michael-page-2012-8
He is clearly a white supremacy type, while the media focus on a 9/11 tat they clearly miss the massive Celtic cross (a symbol hijacked by neo-nazis on his sholder). Looks the sort to shout white power but has no idea who Helena Blavatsky was. Hope the leo comes through tho.
The media just loves saying "Army vet" whenever something like this happens.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 06, 2012, 02:11:10 PM
The media just loves saying "Army vet" whenever something like this happens.
It was worse in the 1970's and '80's when every Viet Nam vet was characterized as a ticking time bomb just needing the slightest nudge to explode into uncontrolled violence.
Maybe it's time for me to start putting on the tinfoil, but what's up with all these shooters coming from psyops/psych warfare? And why do they all seem to have spent time in Colorado?
There was, yet again, a metric ton of warning signs around that guy. How did this get missed?
Well, when you decide that you need to surveil pretty much the entire populace (illegals seem to get a free pass), things fall through the cracks. Guess this means you guys will need TSA screeners in front of theatres and places of worship now.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 06, 2012, 05:17:04 PM
There was, yet again, a metric ton of warning signs around that guy. How did this get missed?
i think this is too early to state with any certainty. What exactly were the signs to which you refer? OK...he was a white supremacist who may have told someone he was waiting for a "holy race war." So? This may make him a despicable person, but I wouldn't say its clear and convincing evidence of an imminent threat of homicidal massacre. Did he have any felony convictions involving violence, firearms, hate crimes, etc.? Did he have a history of psychiatric disorder or treatment? i haven't read anything that answers either of the above inquiries in the affirmative.
The press and the LE community was very quick to label this as domestic terrorism. This irks me beyond belief. You've got that MAJ Hassan dip-$hit who murdered his own fellow soldiers while shouting "Allahu akbar!!!" and the government still won't label the act as terrorism and the animal still hasn't stood trial.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 06, 2012, 05:52:21 PMOK...he was a white supremacist who may have told someone he was waiting for a "holy race war." So?
And singing about it. If anyone was radicalized, he was.
In any case....
QuoteHeidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's intelligence project, said Page had been on the group's radar since 2000, when he tried to purchase goods from the National Alliance, a well-known hate group. She said the group has evidence that Page attended "hate events" around the country.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/06/sikh-temple-shooter-soundtrack-hate/
He'd managed to concern some folks apparently. And others:
QuotePage moved to Milwaukee earlier this year, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Neighbors who lived near Page in South Milwaukee remembered him and his female companion as "hermit-like" people who never said hello.
"He wouldn't even look at you," said Robert Haugle, 31, who lives in the same building where Page lived from early 2012 until April.
I also ran across a report (can't find at the moment) that said he was "known to law enforcement."
I think we're going to see a bunch more show up in the near future.
^OK...so now you're not allowed to hate people or keep to yourself without being accused of being a mass murderer? All I'm saying is you're walking a dangerous line. There are plenty of skinheads and KKK members who have not committed massacres. I'm not defending them, but they have a right to their own beliefs, no matter how reprehensible, and they are entitled to express those beliefs without increased governmental scrutiny.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 06, 2012, 07:03:17 PM
^OK...so now you're not allowed to hate people or keep to yourself without being accused of being a mass murderer? All I'm saying is you're walking a dangerous line. There are plenty of skinheads and KKK members who have not committed massacres. I'm not defending them, but they have a right to their own beliefs, no matter how reprehensible, and they are entitled to express those beliefs without increased governmental scrutiny.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
What I'm asking is what price our liberty is buying security? We have a Patriot Act in place which we know suspends the 4th Amendment. What has it done? Was this guy being watched? If not, why? If so, why, and why wasn't this caught?
We flush millions, if not billions of dollars into a black hole of "homeland security." I want to know where my money is going and why.
This guy had a number of red flags that, by any reasonable measure, should have put him on a watch list.
I am *not* arguing for greater violations of the 4th Amendment.
What I am questioning is the use of said watch lists (and the loss of our 4th Amendment) if they're ineffective.
^Ahhhh...gotcha.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 06, 2012, 07:51:55 PM
^Ahhhh...gotcha.
Someone will trot out the old line that a "lone wolf" is very difficult to find. I can understand that.
But I would suggest that if we relied more on the public and less on the government , we'd probably catch more of them. It's not like the last three or so shooters were exactly hiding what they were up to. Singing hate songs at every concert that will tolerate you isn't exactly like finding a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure what passes for brains at DHS but this doesn't look like rocket science.
The Army vet reference should always be followed up with two key points: 1) he never served in either of the Iraq or Afghanistan conflicts and 2) he was dishonorably discharged in 1996.
Quote from: Bison on August 08, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
he was dishonorably discharged in 1996.
Probably the most salient point there, but both are valid.
I read an article someplace that he even got fired from some hate group he had joined because he kept showing up drunk. If that's right you know he must have been a wreck.
The first point is related to the fact that the media loves to run with stories about military f'ups and wide paint brush the entire service or war efforts in one fell swipe. It fits their political milleu.
Quote from: LongBlade on August 06, 2012, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on August 06, 2012, 07:51:55 PM
^Ahhhh...gotcha.
Someone will trot out the old line that a "lone wolf" is very difficult to find. I can understand that.
But I would suggest that if we relied more on the public and less on the government , we'd probably catch more of them. It's not like the last three or so shooters were exactly hiding what they were up to. Singing hate songs at every concert that will tolerate you isn't exactly like finding a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure what passes for brains at DHS but this doesn't look like rocket science.
How many people can you watch at one time?
Relying on public information comes down to assessing value. That takes a long time in itself.