Falklands...2012!!!

Started by Jarhead0331, February 07, 2012, 05:32:15 PM

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Jarhead0331

Quote
Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has announced plans for what local media are calling a major announcement  Tuesday amid escalating tensions between Argentina and Great Britain over the Falkland Islands.

Kirchner is gathering ruling and opposition party politicians, diplomats and veterans from the 1982 war between Britain and Argentina over the South Atlantic islands, which Argentina calls Las Malvinas, the English-language Buenos Aires Herald reported. Her announcement is scheduled for 7 p.m. local time (5 p.m. ET).

Speculation in recent days has been that Kirchner will cut the Falklands air link to the South American mainland by banning the airline LAN Chile from using Argentinian airspace to fly to the islands from Chile. The Saturday flights are the only scheduled air service to the Falklands and carry fresh food as well as passengers, Britain's Sky News reports.

Argentina already bans Falklands ships from its ports, an action joined by other South American and Caribbean nations.

"If the LAN Chile flight is cancelled, it would be pretty difficult to resist the already credible thesis that there is an economic blockade of the civilian population of the Falklands," a senior British diplomat in the region was quoted as saying by the UK's Guardian newspaper last week.

Though Britain won the 1982 war, expelling an Argentinian military force, Argentina still claims the territory, which has been under British rule since 1833, as its own. Britain maintains that the 2,500 residents of the Falklands have the right to determine their allegiance, and so far that has been staunchly British.

"We support the Falklands' right to self-determination, and what the Argentinians have been saying recently I would argue is actually far more like colonialism, because these people want to remain British, and the Argentinians want them to do something else," British Prime Minister David Cameron told UK lawmakers last month.

Tensions between London and Buenos Aires were raised even higher this month when Britain sent the heir to the throne, Prince William, to the Falklands as a military helicopter pilot.

"Prince William is coming ... as a member of the armed forces of his country," Argentina's Foreign Ministry said in a statement. "The Argentinian people regret that the royal heir is coming to the soil of the homeland with the uniform of the conqueror and not with the wisdom of a statesman who works in the service of peace and dialogue between nations."

The prince's deployment comes as Britain is making other moves to support its 1,700 personnel at the Mount Pleasant military complex in the Falklands.

The Royal Navy is sending its top-of-the-line warship, the destroyer HMS Dauntless, to the South Atlantic in the spring on what the British Defense Ministry calls a routine deployment, according to British media reports, including the BBC. Additionally, a British nuclear submarine is also headed to the Falklands, according to a report in the UK's Daily Mail.

So why, besides supporting the Falklands' inhabitants, does Britain want to hang on to the islands? There are lucrative fishing grounds around the islands as well as a growing oil drilling industry.

Argentina, of course, has economic interests, but analysts say the current standoff has much to do with internal politics.

"The government is being squeezed from lots of different areas, so one way to distract from the economic problems facing the country is to raise the Malvinas issue," Mark Jones, an expert in Latin American politics at Rice University in Texas, told CNN. "It's one of the few issues outside football that you can get universal consensus on."

And in Argentina, football, or soccer, is helping fuel the tensions.

When the season kicks off Friday in the top flight of Argentinian soccer, the league will be named Crucero General Belgrano (the cruiser General Belgrano) after the Argentinian warship sunk by a British submarine during the conflict 30 years ago. Argentina lost 323 sailors in the sinking, almost half of its total casualties during the war. Britain puts its casualties in the 74-day 1982 war at 255 troops and civilians.

In a report Tuesday on MercoPress.com, the South Atlantic News Agency said that Argentina's top soccer league is run by the government, which also owns its TV rights. All games are broadcast free, and advertising is often used to promote government programs, according to the report.

If the Argentinian government is pushing its Falklands claims on domestic TV, it's using a different media to put out a message in the Falklands themselves, according to Time.com. Islanders report receiving harassing phone calls, e-mails and even tweets, Time reports.

"It's intimidating to be woken in the night to someone shouting at you in Spanish," Lisa Watson, editor of the islands' newspaper The Penguin News, told Time.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/07/argentinian-leader-plans-big-announcement-amid-falklands-tensions/
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


LongBlade

Hmmm.

I suppose the lessons of a third rate military trying to take on a first rate one have been lost on them?

Or was Meryl Streep's performance in Iron Lady so poor that Fernandez de Kirchner thinks there's room to improve on their previous performance?
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Jarhead0331

Seems like its an almost exact repeat of the circumstances that let to the conflict in '82.  A lagging economy on the mainland causing the Argentinian government to waive the "Las Malvinas" flag in order to bolster support and distract away from the poor economic situation.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


LongBlade

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 07, 2012, 05:37:41 PM
Seems like its an almost exact repeat of the circumstances that let to the conflict in '82.  A lagging economy on the mainland causing the Argentinian government to waive the "Las Malvinas" flag in order to bolster support and distract away from the poor economic situation.

I suppose now is when the adage "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them" will come into play. Will the Argentine public remember the lesson?

For some reason I thought Argentina was in decent shape politically if not economically. Too bad. Some brave men on both sides may die because of this stupidity. More Argentine than British and for no good reason.

Funny thing is, I recently pulled out my copy of Shrapnel's Falklands War and have been thinking about installing it. I guess now might be as good a time as any.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

spelk

Trouble is we haven't got the Harriers or Carriers to repeat 1982! Defence cuts, and relying too much on land based air support. We can't roll out our ineffective Vulcan bombers now.

It does seem to be an exact copy of what happened almost 30 years ago, with the political situations and economies in synch with that time period.

I guess the move to put Prince William on the islands, was one of a warning. So if it all kicks off again, we'll go in as hard as we can, with whatever we can scrape up, and Cameron will heralded a hero if we manage to pull it off again.

It may result in nothing, but we have a number of vets who still remember the last time vividly. I can't see us backing down no matter what.

Good job I spent the better part of last year reading into the conflict.

LongBlade

Quote from: spelk on February 07, 2012, 06:09:42 PM
Trouble is we haven't got the Harriers or Carriers to repeat 1982! Defence cuts, and relying too much on land based air support. We can't roll out our ineffective Vulcan bombers now.

It does seem to be an exact copy of what happened almost 30 years ago, with the political situations and economies in synch with that time period.

I guess the move to put Prince William on the islands, was one of a warning. So if it all kicks off again, we'll go in as hard as we can, with whatever we can scrape up, and Cameron will heralded a hero if we manage to pull it off again.

It may result in nothing, but we have a number of vets who still remember the last time vividly. I can't see us backing down no matter what.

Good job I spent the better part of last year reading into the conflict.

I guess we'll be looking to you for some context if this thing gets any worse.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

MIGMaster

Quote from: spelk on February 07, 2012, 06:09:42 PM
Trouble is we haven't got the Harriers or Carriers to repeat 1982!

They don't even have any Vulcans left to fly Blackbuck missions  ;)  I suspect the lack of airpower may be offset by cruise missiles
and the EF 2000's they have stationed there. The Argies are still flying upgraded A-4's and Mirages. They wouldn't stand a chance against the HMS Dauntless and it's AEGIS like systems. Make for some great CNN clips though - if only lives weren't at risk.

son_of_montfort

Interesting to see this pop up in a time when one would think this sort of thing dead letter. JH has a pretty astute analysis here. I wondered if Argentina is both playing smoke and mirrors or hoping, in some strange misinformed universe, that the British would just roll over because it is too much trouble? I see that the Falklands now have oil in the equation - was that part of the 1982 issue?
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

LongBlade

Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 07, 2012, 10:28:29 PM
Interesting to see this pop up in a time when one would think this sort of thing dead letter. JH has a pretty astute analysis here. I wondered if Argentina is both playing smoke and mirrors or hoping, in some strange misinformed universe, that the British would just roll over because it is too much trouble? I see that the Falklands now have oil in the equation - was that part of the 1982 issue?

I don't remember oil being an issue. It was considered a windblown, sheep infested land in the middle of nowhere. But Margaret Thatcher wasn't about to let the UK get run over just because it was on the other side of the world.

At least that's how I remember it. Oil may play a factor now.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

son_of_montfort

Quote from: LongBlade on February 07, 2012, 10:45:27 PM
Quote from: son_of_montfort on February 07, 2012, 10:28:29 PM
Interesting to see this pop up in a time when one would think this sort of thing dead letter. JH has a pretty astute analysis here. I wondered if Argentina is both playing smoke and mirrors or hoping, in some strange misinformed universe, that the British would just roll over because it is too much trouble? I see that the Falklands now have oil in the equation - was that part of the 1982 issue?

I don't remember oil being an issue. It was considered a windblown, sheep infested land in the middle of nowhere. But Margaret Thatcher wasn't about to let the UK get run over just because it was on the other side of the world.

At least that's how I remember it. Oil may play a factor now.

I remember the same - that there was little economic or tactical importance. Now they talk of lucrative fishing and oil. This seems to be a paradigm shift.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

bayonetbrant

The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Jarhead0331

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 08, 2012, 06:50:45 AM
Quote from: spelk on February 07, 2012, 06:09:42 PMwith whatever we can scrape up

I'm sure there's a cruise liner somewhere you can commandeer.

Hell, there is one docked off the coast of Italy that the Brits can probably get for half-price.  She needs a little work though. 
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


bayonetbrant

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 08, 2012, 07:00:40 AMHell, there is one docked off the coast of Italy that the Brits can probably get for half-price.  She needs a little work though.

I'm not sure "docked" is the verb you're looking for  ;)
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Staggerwing

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 08, 2012, 07:38:42 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 08, 2012, 07:00:40 AMHell, there is one docked off the coast of Italy that the Brits can probably get for half-price.  She needs a little work though.

I'm not sure "docked" is the verb you're looking for  ;)

Yeah, it looks like the kick-stand failed.
Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa

Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost...

"Don't you look at me that way..." -the Abyss
 
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... this will go down on your permanent record... -the Violent Femmes, 'Kiss Off'-

"I'm not just anyone, I'm not just anyone-
I got my time machine, got my 'electronic dream!"
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Centurion40

From my perspective, this sums it up nicely:

Quote"The people of the Falkland Islands are British out of choice," the British Foreign Office said in a statement. "They are free to determine their own future, and there will be no negotiations with Argentina on sovereignty unless the Islanders wish it."

I really don't think that we're in for a repeat of 1982.  Argentina is not a military dictatorship today.
Any time is a good time for pie.