Russia's War Against Ukraine

Started by ArizonaTank, November 26, 2021, 04:54:38 PM

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JasonPratt

Quote from: Gusington on January 26, 2023, 10:28:31 AMThe Russians must have really good weed  :crazy2:

Made of potatoes.  :martini:
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steve58

:doh:

QuoteOn Wednesday night, Rep. Jim Banks of Indiana told Newsmax of a report that indicates Russian President Vladimir Putin is in negotiations with the Taliban to purchase the weapons the U.S. left behind when Biden ordered a sudden withdrawal.

https://redstate.com/brandon_morse/2023/01/26/report-putin-and-taliban-negotiating-sale-of-us-arms-left-behind-by-biden-in-afghanistan-n694162
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GDS_Starfury

#5912
lets just say thats a pretty biased article.
sorry to bring some reality to the thread:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/republicans-inflate-cost-of-taliban-seized-u-s-military-equipment/
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

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steve58

:TimeOut: The 80+ billion mentioned in your factcheck.org article was a number thrown about after the US withdrawal, but the article I referenced (and the Newsmax article it referenced) states the US left behind "over $7 billion in military equipment and weapons". A number that I find very plausible.

Government is not the solution to our problem—government is the problem.   Ronald Reagan
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.   Thomas Jefferson
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.   George Orwell  The truth is quiet...It's the lies that are loud.   Jesus Revolution
If you ever find yourself in need of a safe space then you're probably going to have to stop calling yourself a social justice warrior. You cannot be a warrior and a pansy at the same time   Mike Adams (RIP Mike)

W8taminute

Quote from: ArizonaTank on January 26, 2023, 09:05:13 AMIt is interesting that the M-1s are not going right away. Piecing info together from several news reports, the M-1s are being sent through a US Government fund known as the "Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative."

This means they will be purchased from the manufacturer and not sent from US military stocks. The M-1s in US military stocks are not export versions. The speculation is that they will be refurbished models and may take months to get to Ukraine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/m1-abrams-tanks-in-us-inventory-have-armor-too-secret-to-send-to-ukraine/ar-AA16JSSZ

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/reversal-us-agrees-send-31-abrams-tanks-ukraine-2023-01-25/

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/m1-abrams-for-ukrainian-armed-forces-will-be-provided-by-the-manufacturer-not-the-us-army-reuters/

The key point in that is that we don't have an export model to sell/donate that doesn't contain highly classified tech.  So if I see M1's in Ukraine in the next few minutes, i.e. within a week or so, I will know that they have to be manned by us soldiers.  There is no way the Ukrainians have people that have been trained to operate this complex machinery.
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Gusington

^There's Ukrainian troops in the US right now undergoing training. On what systems, I do not know.

There's also Western advisors in Ukraine. How many...God knows.


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GDS_Starfury

Quote from: steve58 on January 26, 2023, 04:51:59 PM:TimeOut: The 80+ billion mentioned in your factcheck.org article was a number thrown about after the US withdrawal, but the article I referenced (and the Newsmax article it referenced) states the US left behind "over $7 billion in military equipment and weapons". A number that I find very plausible.

this topic has already been gone over many pages ago.  we didn't leave it behind, it was passed off to the Afghans and most of was complete shit then and its probably even more shit now.  the second half of that article was the meat of it, not the raw numbers thrown about.
but lets take the article at face value and russia is trying to buy this stuff.  what does that say about the state of the russian military that they're trying to buy junked US surplus.  go ahead, buy stuff you cant get parts for. 
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


bobarossa

Quote from: W8taminute on January 26, 2023, 05:01:33 PM
Quote from: ArizonaTank on January 26, 2023, 09:05:13 AMIt is interesting that the M-1s are not going right away. Piecing info together from several news reports, the M-1s are being sent through a US Government fund known as the "Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative."

This means they will be purchased from the manufacturer and not sent from US military stocks. The M-1s in US military stocks are not export versions. The speculation is that they will be refurbished models and may take months to get to Ukraine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/m1-abrams-tanks-in-us-inventory-have-armor-too-secret-to-send-to-ukraine/ar-AA16JSSZ

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/reversal-us-agrees-send-31-abrams-tanks-ukraine-2023-01-25/

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/m1-abrams-for-ukrainian-armed-forces-will-be-provided-by-the-manufacturer-not-the-us-army-reuters/

The key point in that is that we don't have an export model to sell/donate that doesn't contain highly classified tech.  So if I see M1's in Ukraine in the next few minutes, i.e. within a week or so, I will know that they have to be manned by us soldiers.  There is no way the Ukrainians have people that have been trained to operate this complex machinery.
I noticed we are sending 8 armored recovery vehicles for 31 tanks.  Either that means they have poor reliability or the US REALLY doesn't want them to fall into Russian hands.  Probably the latter.

FarAway Sooner

I do wonder what the various security measures employed are by the different sides sending more modern stuff.  I wonder how much the US is worried about the Russians getting their hands on something, as opposed to the Russians then selling it to the Chinese?

I also wonder how many Chinese military advisors might be sitting on the Russian side gathering their own intelligence?

GDS_Starfury

QuoteI noticed we are sending 8 armored recovery vehicles for 31 tanks.  Either that means they have poor reliability or the US REALLY doesn't want them to fall into Russian hands.  Probably the latter.

or we have enough to send so why not give them an awesome vehicle. that thing can recover anything.  who wouldnt want that.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


GDS_Starfury

Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


GDS_Starfury

Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


ArizonaTank

#5922
Quote from: bobarossa on January 26, 2023, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: W8taminute on January 26, 2023, 05:01:33 PMThe key point in that is that we don't have an export model to sell/donate that doesn't contain highly classified tech.  So if I see M1's in Ukraine in the next few minutes, i.e. within a week or so, I will know that they have to be manned by us soldiers.  There is no way the Ukrainians have people that have been trained to operate this complex machinery.
I noticed we are sending 8 armored recovery vehicles for 31 tanks.  Either that means they have poor reliability or the US REALLY doesn't want them to fall into Russian hands.  Probably the latter.


Yes you are right, if we see M-1s in Ukraine in the next few weeks, it means NATO has said 'screw it' and crossed the border.

I'm not too worried about M-1s being captured. The US has been exporting various versions of the M-1 since before the first Gulf War. Countries like Iraq and Egypt have a bunch of them, along with almost a dozen other countries.

My guess is that the Russians and Chinese have already had their hands all over an older export M-1 somewhere.

Like the Leopard II, older versions of the M-1 are much less capable than more recently upgraded ones. As far as I know, nobody has said what versions will be supplied to Ukraine. My guess would be one of the middling versions.

As far as recovery vehicles are concerned, I don't think it says anything about the reliability of the tanks. If you have tanks, even reliable ones, you still need recovery vehicles. When you are spinning 70 tons around the woods at 40mph, even the best tanks are going to break something or get stuck from time to time. Also there is battle damage; even a T-72 can probably track one.

Still, I bet most of those 8 recovery vehicles will be used to support other tanks, such as the Leopards for example.

Also, although I have not seen any mention of it, I also assume somebody will send Heavy Equipment Transporters (HETs). The M-1s and Leopards (and even Challengers) are much heavier than Ukraine's typical Soviet MBTs. The old Russian equipment runs under 50 tons, while the Western tanks are pushing 70 tons. It takes a special kind of truck and trailer to move that much metal.
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ArizonaTank

Quote from: ArizonaTank on January 27, 2023, 12:13:45 AM...As far as I know, nobody has said what versions will be supplied to Ukraine. My guess would be one of the middling versions.
 

What news 24 hours brings. Apparently M1A2s. Again the devil is in the details, but according to the article, the US would be sending fairly advanced tanks, but without advanced armor.

Something like the ones the US provided to the Saudis perhaps.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/26/us-sends-ukraine-advanced-abrams-tanks-00079648
Johannes "Honus" Wagner
"The Flying Dutchman"
Shortstop: Pittsburgh Pirates 1900-1917
Rated as the 2nd most valuable player of all time by Bill James.

W8taminute

Quote from: FarAway Sooner on January 26, 2023, 06:41:50 PMI do wonder what the various security measures employed are by the different sides sending more modern stuff.  I wonder how much the US is worried about the Russians getting their hands on something, as opposed to the Russians then selling it to the Chinese?

I also wonder how many Chinese military advisors might be sitting on the Russian side gathering their own intelligence?

One thing is for certain, this war is offering an opportunity to test out weapons systems.  Similar to what happened in the Spanish Civil war in the late '30s.
"You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend."

Romulan Commander to Kirk