I've been thinking about this recently and I have come to the conclusion that there has simply never been a better time to be a computer gamer than right now.
Certainly gaming was great back in the day, and there was innovation and so much new to see and do that maybe hadn't been done before. But as I look at my game collection right now, I realize that I will probably never get to play all of the awesome games that deserve to be played. I just don't have the time. Some of these games are so good, and have so many hours of potential gaming in them, that there is no way to see and appreciate everything.
Some examples:
- The Total War series: I have all of the Total War games. Sadly I have been unable to keep up with all of the DLC. But that's ok because the primary reason is that I simply haven't been able to play all of them. Even until recently I was still mucking around in M2TW- my favorite- leaving Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2, and Rome 2 to explore. I did boot up Shogun 2 the other day and I am just blown away by the whole experience. The added depth...the graphics...the atmosphere...coming off M2TW it is just remarkable.
- Crusader Kings 2: Unbelievably replayable. With all of the hundreds of years in which to start, combined with the astounding number of rulers you can play as, this game could take a lifetime to fully explore all by itself.
- Scourge of War series: As a Civil War gamer, this is about the ultimate experience. Real time, selectable levels of command, courier system, with a sandbox mode allowing one to replay this one infinitely.
- Elite: Dangerous: A galaxy worth of space to explore, with players worldwide. A living, breathing economy influenced by players. An epic space odyssey MMO experience. I can see this sucking up hundreds to thousands of gaming hours.
- Role Playing Games: Between the new RPGs coming out every other day, how can one keep up with them unless it's at the expense of every other type of gaming? I've got a hundred hours sunk into Morrowind and I'm not even 1/3 through! And then there's still the Dragon Age series, the Witcher series, the Fallout series...and so on. And that's single player...the MMO world opens up a whole new experience and time sink.
- Flight sims: Perhaps the weak sister of the bunch, I would argue that flight sims have become technically better but have perhaps regressed somewhat backwards in gameplay. I'm looking at you, DCS and Battle of Stalingrad! Wings over Flanders Field is a notable exception. On the civilian front, though, companies like PMDG and others continue to crank out aircraft that are almost good enough (or actually are good enough) to train for their real-world counterpart. They certainly look amazing, and the detail is outstanding. And, the hardware exists to pimp out a home cockpit as real as you can afford.
This is just scratching the surface. I'm sitting here looking at icons for CMANO, F1: 2013, Steel Armor Blaze of War, the list goes on. Too many games. Too many good games. It is getting to the point where marginal games are just getting sent to the unplay-pile. I have too many awesome games to waste time on something that isn't awesome. And even of the awesome games, I simply can't focus on all of them enough to be proficient in everything. Some games are just falling to the wayside due to the impossible task of maintaining all that muscle memory.
I find, lately, that I have about a half dozen "go-to" games and they're simply great enough that I don't need to move around too much. An occasional one-off play of some other game is fine, but with 6 games only I can eat up all of my gaming time if I want and have a completely fulfilling experience.
It is just a magical time to be gaming. I never thought I'd run out of time before I ran out of good games to play.
And hardware requirements has stagnated a bit. No need to be always using the latest and greatest.
Haven't bought a new one since elite, and when I'm not in an elite place, Rome II does the job nicely and for real time sponges I have ckII and euIV
Gamings all good at the mo
Maybe, but I think if it were a true Golden Age I would be playing Imperialism III, Soldiers at War II, turn-based Star Fleet Battles, Call to Power III, a good graphical/statistical football game...
Of course, Spock may have been right when he said "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." :)
Quote from: bbmike on September 30, 2014, 05:24:34 AM
Maybe, but I think if it were a true Golden Age I would be playing Imperialism III, Soldiers at War II, turn-based Star Fleet Battles, Call to Power III, a good graphical/statistical football game...
Of course, Spock may have been right when he said "After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true." :)
When you say football........
You know...the REAL football.
Group hug and big shiny watches for everyone!
Quote from: Toonces on September 30, 2014, 01:19:11 AM
It is just a magical time to be gaming. I never thought I'd run out of time before I ran out of good games to play.
True. Lots of good games, but I'm steadily cutting back on the time I spend at the computer playing games. About 6 years ago I was probably averaging 3 hours a week-day night and 6 hours on the week-ends. That's far too much. So now I've cut back to about 1-2 hours a day and at the moment that's just WitPAE PBEM and some flight sims. Board games take some idle time too.
Certain kinds of games (Massive Multiplayer stuff and most online stuff and RPGs) just absorb too much time for me these days. But I agree, these days there is the best range of gaming possibilities I've ever seen.
Quote from: MetalDog on September 30, 2014, 06:16:58 AM
You know...the REAL football.
Ah in which case I recommend football manager :P
Going back to the Dark Age of Mattel Intellivision and the 3DO, I totally agree this is the best time to be a gamer to date. So many games today that I simply would've begged for in the past, I just skip-over now because of the wealth of good games. The spec requirements slowing down, Steam making it so easy to buy and update games, and the dedicated modders that have perfected so many games, the sales, the free demos, the list goes on. Still I see problems with the whole corporate attitude of deciding FOR US what we really like to play and the non-violence crusaders deciding FOR US what we should be playing continuing and maybe getting worse. But for now the will of the gamers prevail and that's a good thing.
I have to agree. This could be called a "Computer Gaming Golden Age" with the lack of hardware incompatibilities that existed back when DOS was king. But I don't believe the games today are superior to the classics like Master of Magic, Master of Orion I or II, Darklands, etc. The games today generally have better graphics and user interfaces due to technological advances. The availability of gaming services that simplify obtaining and keeping games up-to-date, as touched upon by Sir Slash, are certainly big pluses for gamers today....unless they don't have access to the internet.
This is a good time to be a gamer, period.
People are not just gaming on their PCs. There are games on every handheld device out there.
Boardgames and minis games are more diverse, of higher quality, and more widespread than ever before.
Toonces....I couldn't agree more. I finally got over the nostalgia of GOG games realizing what we have today is far superior. Those old games were great in their day but just don't do it for me anymore. Just my opinion, I know others disagree.
Quote from: jomni on September 30, 2014, 02:41:05 AM
And hardware requirements has stagnated a bit. No need to be always using the latest and greatest.
This is a big factor. I spend far more of my limited time playing games than worrying about hardware.
I learned to discount nostalgia the hard way, after purchasing some 'redone' titles and then sitting there, angry at myself, and then realizing 'I can't play this ancient title when I have all these new ones to dive into.'
Agree on the flight sim front. Thirdwire sims are fun and DCS is hardcore but neither of them match up with Falcon or F-22 TAW for campaign play. If DCS wants my money they need to do an F-22 or an EF2000. The F-86 is tempting but I just don't have that much interest in the other aircraft and I don't like their DRM.
I have no issue flying older sim titles that provide me with the gameplay I am looking for.
Completely agree that it is a great time to be a PC gamer.
I just reinstalled IL2 1946 again and with the HSFX mod, that older sim is still a lot of fun to play and with so many user made missions and campaigns to download. I also just got CMRT, CMFI and the 3.0 upgrade for CMBN and I'm having a ball PBEM with those games.
If I don't buy another game for the next two or three years, I would still be plenty busy with the ones I have. Of course, not buying any more games is not option with the temptation.
Quote from: jomni on September 30, 2014, 02:41:05 AM
And hardware requirements has stagnated a bit. No need to be always using the latest and greatest.
This is key. Remember when back in the day you had to shell out 3 grand for a new computer every time a new game came out. Today I can get away with doing the majority of my gaming on my 6+ year old desktop.
Quote from: DoctorQuest on September 30, 2014, 11:17:20 AM
Agree on the flight sim front. Thirdwire sims are fun and DCS is hardcore but neither of them match up with Falcon or F-22 TAW for campaign play. If DCS wants my money they need to do an F-22 or an EF2000. The F-86 is tempting but I just don't have that much interest in the other aircraft and I don't like their DRM.
I have no issue flying older sim titles that provide me with the gameplay I am looking for.
I really missed F22 TAW - it was a superb campaign.
Why are we getting these superb games that are actually a shadow of their predecessors?
But I agree in general - there are some great games on my disk at the moment!
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 30, 2014, 12:30:00 PM
Why are we getting these superb games that are actually a shadow of their predecessors?
Raises an interesting point. I agree that this is a great time to be a gamer, and that games overall have never been better. But there are a couple of trends that, to my mind, take a bit of the luster off this Golden Age. The deceptively named "Free to Play" model being one -- I essentially just avoid all these games to begin with. The other being a general shift favoring multi-player over single-player experiences. I'm not much of an MP player at all, and I really value games that put a premium on single-player experience and decent AI. Flight sims seem to be moving in this direction pretty aggressively -- witness what's happening with Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad, as Silent Disapproval Robot has commented on --
EDIT -- should've read Toonces' post more carefully, since I now see he singled out BoS and Flight sims as well --
Quote from: sandman2575 on September 30, 2014, 12:47:32 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 30, 2014, 12:30:00 PM
Why are we getting these superb games that are actually a shadow of their predecessors?
Raises an interesting point. I agree that this is a great time to be a gamer, and that games overall have never been better. But there are a couple of trends that, to my mind, take a bit of the luster off this Golden Age. The deceptively named "Free to Play" model being one -- I essentially just avoid all these games to begin with. The other being a general shift favoring multi-player over single-player experiences. I'm not much of an MP player at all, and I really value games that put a premium on single-player experience and decent AI. Flight sims seem to be moving in this direction pretty aggressively -- witness what's happening with Il-2 Battle of Stalingrad, as Silent Disapproval Robot has commented on --
EDIT -- should've read Toonces' post more carefully, since I now see he singled out BoS and Flight sims as well --
Not having much time to play, I find some trends (the Free-to-play being one of them) just too time consuming to pursue. On the other hand flight sims like DCS, RoF and BoS are pretty perfect for me even with all their problems. With the old IL-2 and Third Wire, I was spending most of my time messing with Mods. With the current ever-expandable (but not very "immersive" in the classic sense) worlds like DCS or what BoS might turn out to be -- I get to fiddle with stuff and mess with the editor (definitely non-immersive, but still fun) and get all the fun of the old heavily modded games but without a lot of the fuss. I'm looking forward to seeing more planes in DCS and all sorts of stuff in BoS (if it survives) and I don't really have time for worrying about immersion.
I've mentioned being in the middle of a golden age of so-called "Indie" PC gaming before. I think those are a sizable part of why we're awash in great stuff.
Digital distribution (DD) has made software companies which were previously considered niche indies much more widely distributed and accessible, increasing the sales of innovative games along the way. Paradox is probably one good example of this. If I had been told years ago, after the original Crusader Kings and the earliest EUs had been released, that they'd be selling over a million copies of CK2 (for example) to a wide audience, I would've been surprised.
DD has also given us a huge amount of creative indie games created by someone in their pasttime. Some of them even driving the larger developers to emulate their innovations. This is very healthy for the industry's creativeness, as we've all seen the hordes of cloned titles that the large publishers keep churning out year after year. This influx of smaller developers with new ideas and little overhead costs has been a huge boon and the biggest benefit to the hobby. Even if you have to sift through lots of chaff at times. ;D
Generally, I agree with
Toonces as well. I do sometimes wonder if in the current times we're seeing an example of quantity trumping quality, but overall I'd say he's correct.
Quote from: MengJiao on September 30, 2014, 08:41:30 AM
About 6 years ago I was probably averaging 3 hours a week-day night and 6 hours on the week-ends. That's far too much.
That's crazy talk!! :o
Wow, I didn't expect such a positive response to the state of the industry. For me, the post 2008 period is actually something of a gaming dark age. That is not to say we haven't seen some great games come out, or that there aren't any potentially new classics on the horizon, but that overall the quality of gaming is starting to slip. I guess you could quote Charles Dickens: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." :) The best of times because we live in an era where technology can really deliver on the promise of gaming: high speed internet, powerful CPUs and GPUs, digital distribution (with deep sales!), and even free-2-play games (something that has saved me a banana boatload of cash these last few years while also delivering some excellent entertainment value).
But it is also the worst of times for some reasons such as:
Unfinished games becoming the accepted norm: Devs/publishers knowingly selling products that are nowhere near complete, nor functioning as designed. The sad truth is that game devs and publishers are just shoveling this stuff out there regardless of condition with the idea of taking the money now and delivering the finished product later. This has clearly become an accepted industry practice, one made worse by the even more loathsome practice of "pre-order" traps set for the consumer (why even wait for a release date to start raking in the ill-gotten gains from a product you know isn't ready for prine time?). This is inexcusable, frankly, especially in this day and age where gamers have demonstrated their willingness to tolerate missed launch dates for more polish, not to mention the availability of the somewhat more ethical trend of paid "early access" where gamers are warned about the buggy state of a game prior to their purchase. Simply, what is going on with game development is bordering on the criminal as far as I am concerned.
"Iteration not Innovation": You know all those unwanted sequels that are being churned out year after year? This is why. Don't take a risk and make something fresh, rather just take your previous title and incorporate a few new bells and whistles, and sell what is basically the same product for full price again (I'm looking at your BF4, Wargame: DR, and others).
Mediocre Kickstarters: there have been lots of great ideas funded via Kickstarter and other crowd-sourced funding methods, but so far what we have received out the other end has been merely "okay" at best (Strike Suit Zero & Endless Space come to mind), and downright forgettable at worst. Equally concerning to me is the fact that many of these indie projects have adopted the practice of the bigger studios by papering over lackluster launches with the promise of more content and patches post-release - in other words, "we'll fix it later!" but admittedly with better intentions. And as for the mega-funded indie projects like Star Citizen, well I am truly hoping for the best with games that are blessed with such a rabid and charitable fan-base, but I have to ask: what makes you think you can make a great game just by throwing money at it? Isn't that exactly how the federal government conducts business? I think we know the end result of such a financial strategy: mediocre results and lots of wasted cash. Why would gaming be different? Prove me wrong, Star Citizen....
Poisonous Multiplayer Communities: I am finding it increasingly difficult to enjoy my time in MP communities. I once told a newbie to MP shooters that the only way to enjoy a MP game is to 1) close the chat window and, 2) shut off VOIP/Teamspeak (unless playing with friends in a closed match). Why? We all know why. Poisonous, racist, foul-mouthed, trash-talking "l337" idiots dominate MP games. It is really disgusting. And embarrassing. And the forums dedicated to such games are just as bad. Don't get me wrong: I have wracked up lots and lots of hours in various MP games, and have met some nice people at that...but I am finding it increasingly hard to keep doing so seeing how the vast majority of MP gamers are little better than juvenile delinquents (and, sadly, I suspect most aren't juveniles....).
The Pathetic State of AI: I have to laugh when I think of all the articles I have read over the years promising "This is the year of super-smart AI!" Yeah, right. More lies and broken promises. Instead, we have witnessed a regression in the state of the art of AI design. With the exception of Chris Park's superlative AI design in his AI War: Fleet Command, and the commendable efforts of Stardock's Brad Wardell, I think most devs just design an elaborate random number generator and call it "AI". This is the REAL REASON why game devs don't want to make single player games: any SP game is doomed that requires real AI! With that in mind, why "waste" the resources when you can just dump gamers into a MP moshpit? Hence, all these MMOs and MP shooters....
In some ways, I believe we have reached the point where the technology of gaming has now outpaced the ability to make games. Originality has been replaced by the safe same ol' same ol', and innovation has been replaced by graphics. And now we are slathering left-wing politics on top in a desperate attempt to seem "edgy". In other words, we have adopted the worst habits of Hollywood. And like with Hollywood...this will not end well.
Be that as it may, I don't want to seem too down on gaming. :buck2: Gaming will saunter on, and we will see some innovative classics emerge, but I suspect that great titles will be fewer and farther between. I can see this with my own gaming habits. I find myself investing few and fewer hours into gaming, and I am purchasing fewer and fewer games every year.
But I still game on. ;)
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times....
Today I have more games that I'm interested in playing, and own, than ever before. Two big reasons.
First - gog and dosbox. A lot of great older games are now playable again on most any machine.
Second - With internet distribution niche games can find a profitable market better than before. This works for me in all types of RPGs and strategy games.
Some of the negatives discussed above are easily avoidable. I don't buy "beta games" nor do I ever pre-order anything. Big chunk of problems are now gone.
I don't play shooters or online multiplayer so the nastiness is never there for me. This is a time coordination problem.
Yet, there are email games all the time for strategy and wargames that many readers here enjoy all of the time. I'll join them once I retire and my schedule becomes more predictable.
Rooks, you bring up some absolutely valid points. I agree with pretty much all of them. However I don't think they're enough to invalidate what Toonces said (not that I'm saying that's what you were trying to do ).
There are tons of games coming out all the time, and not all of them fall into those bad categories. The scope of modern games are such that nobody really "needs" to buy any more than 10 games a year - not even that, depending on the games in question - and have more than enough to play all year around. I think the biggest reason we continue to buy games at all is to be collectors as well as players. Plus it's very pleasurable to be part of a new game's release and to explore it and discuss it with other people doing the same.
Quote from: RooksBailey on September 30, 2014, 04:17:47 PM
But it is also the worst of times for some reasons such as:
Unfinished games becoming the accepted norm: Devs/publishers knowingly selling products that are nowhere near complete, nor functioning as designed. The sad truth is that game devs and publishers are just shoveling this stuff out there regardless of condition with the idea of taking the money now and delivering the finished product later. This has clearly become an accepted industry practice, one made worse by the even more loathsome practice of "pre-order" traps set for the consumer (why even wait for a release date to start raking in the ill-gotten gains from a product you know isn't ready for prine time?). This is inexcusable, frankly, especially in this day and age where gamers have demonstrated their willingness to tolerate missed launch dates for more polish, not to mention the availability of the somewhat more ethical trend of paid "early access" where gamers are warned about the buggy state of a game prior to their purchase. Simply, what is going on with game development is bordering on the criminal as far as I am concerned.
Rooks, you are absolutely right, and it's odd how Demos have all but become extinct too, isn't it? Or perhaps not odd but intentional. So we have no way to try before we buy and see what a piece of crap they released.
An unfinished demo of a game wouldn't be fit for purpose would it? So why should anyone accept an unfinished game?. Bah.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 30, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
Rooks, you bring up some absolutely valid points. I agree with pretty much all of them. However I don't think they're enough to invalidate what Toonces said (not that I'm saying that's what you were trying to do ).
There are tons of games coming out all the time, and not all of them fall into those bad categories.
Oh, don't misunderstand. I agree - there are lots of games coming out, and more than a few are classics in the making. But I think percentage-wise, good to bad these days is like 25%-75%. Just look at Steam: it's front page used to be a showcase of gems, now it reminds me of the "3 games for a $1" bargain bin from CompUSA. ;D And of the good games, most look like they were made seven or more years ago (this was why I said I believed the art of game design is being outstripped by the hardware - it is just too costly for anyone but the mega-studios to really utilize modern hardware to the max. Of the games on my PC, only BF4 really taxes my system!).
QuoteThe scope of modern games are such that nobody really "needs" to buy any more than 10 games a year - not even that, depending on the games in question - and have more than enough to play all year around. I think the biggest reason we continue to buy games at all is to be collectors as well as players. Plus it's very pleasurable to be part of a new game's release and to explore it and discuss it with other people doing the same.
Those are interesting observations! I think you are right. But my problem is that I am increasingly finding myself to be in the position of having some money set aside to buy a game but not being able to actually find anything to buy! I think this is why a lot of us have been talking about rediscovering old games, or just sticking with games in our library. I would say we are being forced to do that by a general paucity of quality titles.
Quote from: Ian CRooks, you are absolutely right, and it's odd how Demos have all but become extinct too, isn't it? Or perhaps not odd but intentional. So we have no way to try before we buy and see what a piece of crap they released.
An unfinished demo of a game wouldn't be fit for purpose would it? So why should anyone accept an unfinished game?. Bah.
That is something I have noticed lately, too. The big devs have abandoned demos a long time ago, but now I am seeing a lot of indies suddenly stop offering demos. Even the reputable Alan Park of Arcen has yet to produce a demo for The Last Federation..even though he promised a demo "soon" after release. Now there is no mention of a demo for that game (which is why I haven't purchased it yet).
Quote from: airboy on September 30, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
Yet, there are email games all the time for strategy and wargames that many readers here enjoy all of the time. I'll join them once I retire and my schedule becomes more predictable.
PBEM (play by email) games are wonderful because you don't have to have a predictable schedule. All you need is an opponent who understands and agrees to whatever turnaround time you have :)
Quote from: RooksBailey on September 30, 2014, 05:00:03 PM
Even the reputable Alan Park of Arcen has yet to produce a demo for The Last Federation.
Sorry, but...Chris Park. :)
I can't believe there's no demo though! I wonder what the reason for that is - normally Arcen's games always have demos.
It's only recently that I didn't find myself waiting for many months on one or two games, having almost nothing new & interesting in between. I recall visiting Gamestops for long periods of time, wanting a good new game, and only finding shitty filler. Things have changed for the better, overall.
Now there is usually something interesting coming out every month. Often multiple ones.
While there is a huge amount of crap coming out, there is also a much larger amount of good ones too. Glad it's not such a gaming famine anymore.
I credit digital download services like steam. This allows smaller developers to get their games out to a wider audience without having to rely on a big publisher. Also allows developers to raise money via early access. People who create the games can see a bigger chunk of the profit than when they relied on publishers and brick n mortar shops. More $ = more people creating
Quote from: LongBlade on September 30, 2014, 05:20:01 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 30, 2014, 04:26:47 PM
Yet, there are email games all the time for strategy and wargames that many readers here enjoy all of the time. I'll join them once I retire and my schedule becomes more predictable.
PBEM (play by email) games are wonderful because you don't have to have a predictable schedule. All you need is an opponent who understands and agrees to whatever turnaround time you have :)
you should try been late on a ProN turn when SDR wants his Russia fix
I agree now is a great time for PC games. For all the reasons mentioned. Also, the game development tools have never been better or cheaper.
But I also wonder if PC gaming is at it's zenith. Will development for other platforms (like iOS platforms) slowly water down the choices we have on PC?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on September 30, 2014, 05:29:20 PM
Quote from: RooksBailey on September 30, 2014, 05:00:03 PM
Even the reputable Alan Park of Arcen has yet to produce a demo for The Last Federation.
Sorry, but...Chris Park. :)
Oh, I meant his brother, Alan. ;D
Good catch. For some reason the "A" in Arcen always makes me write Alan instead of Chris. :D Just the way my messy mind works. :uglystupid2:
QuoteI can't believe there's no demo though! I wonder what the reason for that is - normally Arcen's games always have demos.
I am surprised, too. Especially seeing how TLF is getting good reviews. I suspect he is waiting to add more content before releasing a demo. Best foot forward and all that.
Quote from: NefaroNow there is usually something interesting coming out every month. Often multiple ones.
While there is a huge amount of crap coming out, there is also a much larger amount of good ones too. Glad it's not such a gaming famine anymore.
My famine continues. :( But to be fair, I think it has to do with personal preference. I am no longer inclined to jump from genre to genre as much as I used to. Nowadays I am more likely to explore a shrinking circle of topics - really, mostly sci-fi, cyberpunk, shooters, and TBS games. While we have seen a bunch of titles released in those genres (well, except for cyberpunk and TBS), most were forgettable copycats or shabby retreads of older titles like MOO. Maybe I am being too critical - I squeeze every dollar until it hurts when it comes to games these days, partly due to getting addicted to the wild sales that pop up, partly because I don't believe most devs/pubs deserve full price for their increasingly unfinished products - but I am just finding it harder and harder to find something worthy of my money (and by "worthy," I mean a game with lots of replayability, AS WELL AS a game that will be continually supported by the dev. I DEMAND both these days).
Quote from: ArizonaTankBut I also wonder if PC gaming is at it's zenith. Will development for other platforms (like iOS platforms) slowly water down the choices we have on PC?
I believe the tablets have been a boon to PC gaming. I truly believe this turn-based renaissance (one of the GOOD things about modern gaming) is due to the popularity of tablet gaming. But for lucrative tablet gaming, I don't think excellent games like Frozen Synapse, Battle Academy, or ShadowRun would even exist! Unlike consoles, I think tablets are a net positive for gaming.
The power of modern systems has let devs do more. Consumers can run those titles on very affordable machines. What has not changed is the ability to conceptualize a great system. By system I mean game.
Quote from: RooksBailey on September 30, 2014, 07:56:48 PM
Quote from: NefaroNow there is usually something interesting coming out every month. Often multiple ones.
While there is a huge amount of crap coming out, there is also a much larger amount of good ones too. Glad it's not such a gaming famine anymore.
My famine continues. :( But to be fair, I think it has to do with personal preference. I am no longer inclined to jump from genre to genre as much as I used to. Nowadays I am more likely to explore a shrinking circle of topics - really, mostly sci-fi, cyberpunk, shooters, and TBS games. While we have seen a bunch of titles released in those genres (well, except for cyberpunk and TBS), most were forgettable copycats or shabby retreads of older titles like MOO. Maybe I am being too critical - I squeeze every dollar until it hurts when it comes to games these days, partly due to getting addicted to the wild sales that pop up, partly because I don't believe most devs/pubs deserve full price for their increasingly unfinished products - but I am just finding it harder and harder to find something worthy of my money (and by "worthy," I mean a game with lots of replayability, AS WELL AS a game that will be continually supported by the dev. I DEMAND both these days).
[/quote]
I've been looking for the right quote and I guess this is as good as any. I can't disagree more- this goes to the whole point of my post- and I don't see how you can possibly make this statement.
With the exception of cyberpunk, which I'm not familiar with, how can you be in a gaming famine in sci-fi, shooters, or TBS games? I mean
really?
For shooters it almost goes without saying that the number of choices has never been broader. You have everything from quality games like ARMA3 (and an almost unlimited amount of gaming with ARMA2 with all of the expansions, which can be had for practically pennies now), to Red Orchestra 2/Rising Storm (admittedly MP only really, but still an outstanding game), to pablum like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Destiny...man alive the list goes on forever!
Obviously an opinion can't be "wrong" by its nature, so I don't mean to belittle yours. But I can't help that some folks in this thread are looking through the prism of nostalgia sometimes. The only glaring exception to gaming where I feel that we've taken some sort of step backwards is in combat flight simming. The up and coming flight sims all seem to be skimping on gameplay at the expense of systems fidelity, graphics, or just plain laziness. Or all three. And there really aren't a lot of new flight sims up and coming...the market is slowly coalescing around a few: ED, 777, a handful of others.
If you can't find a good game to play you're setting your expectations too high, IMO. Or you're just being curmudgeonly or something.
One thing I do agree with is the seeming acceptance of the release of half-complete games. This does seem to be becoming an industry standard.
I contrast that, though, with the almost absurd ease with which we can buy games now through venues like Steam, and the utter availability of information about a game to help the consumer make an informed purchase decision.
It is maybe a bit depressing to not be able to go to a game store anymore and browse the back of the boxes to decide what to pick up, but on the other hand, I don't even need to leave my house anymore in order to get almost any game I want instantaneously. The ability to have immediate gratification is great.
I don't like the new practice of including pre-order DLC in a purchase if you pre-order the game, to circumvent the intelligent consumer waiting for post-release information to become available before deciding to purchase. I think this is bullshit. This can be avoided easily if you're someone that is patient enough to wait for the inevitable sale or bundle offer, but there is value in being in on a popular game on day 1. By the time I really get into Shogun 2 you guys are going to be on to the next Total War title...it makes for a pretty lonely conversation when you're 3 years behind on your gaming from everyone else!
Quote from: Toonces on September 30, 2014, 09:21:32 PM
I've been looking for the right quote and I guess this is as good as any. I can't disagree more- this goes to the whole point of my post- and I don't see how you can possibly make this statement.
Well, something like this is very much in the eye of the beholder. One person's feast is another's famine. It depends on the perspective.
QuoteFor shooters it almost goes without saying that the number of choices has never been broader. You have everything from quality games like ARMA3 (and an almost unlimited amount of gaming with ARMA2 with all of the expansions, which can be had for practically pennies now), to Red Orchestra 2/Rising Storm (admittedly MP only really, but still an outstanding game), to pablum like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Destiny...man alive the list goes on forever!
First off, I am speaking as a strict PC gamer. I am sure that if I had a console, my gaming choices would be broader, such as with Destiny, so there is that.
That aside, I would disagree that the number of choices has never been broader. Or, perhaps a better way to state my disagreement would be to say that while there are lots of shooters out there, the number of
quality shooters are actually becoming rather few and far between. Remember circa 2008 when players were wont to bemoan the latest game announcement with a "Not another shooter!" exclamation? You just don't hear that very much anymore because there are very few AAA shooters anymore. Really, the current crop of credible shooters (again, this all depends on one's perspective, for my purposes I would describe it as those shooters with a large and active community) is limited to BF4 (after almost a year of patching), RO2, CSGO, TF2, and Borderlands 2 (for SP) - notice how I didn't mention CoD as even that franchise has fallen on hard times with Ghosts. Of those, only BF4 was released in the last year, the rest are ongoing projects from 2012 or earlier. So, yes, you would be correct to say that if one scoops up all shooters from years past, the selection has never been better. However, I am making the argument that if one is looking for a fresh shooter experience, the selection has been poorer than ever before.
QuoteObviously an opinion can't be "wrong" by its nature, so I don't mean to belittle yours.
Don't worry, no offense taken. Again, it is just about how one views the situation.
QuoteBut I can't help that some folks in this thread are looking through the prism of nostalgia sometimes.
Well, that is one thing you cannot accuse me of. :) I think our difference of opinion stems from the fact that I am precisely the type of gamer who is always looking for the "hot, new thing." When I look for fresh experiences in the above mentioned genres, I find very little to be excited about (with the exception of turn-based, that seems to be gathering speed).
QuoteThe only glaring exception to gaming where I feel that we've taken some sort of step backwards is in combat flight simming. The up and coming flight sims all seem to be skimping on gameplay at the expense of systems fidelity, graphics, or just plain laziness. Or all three. And there really aren't a lot of new flight sims up and coming...the market is slowly coalescing around a few: ED, 777, a handful of others.
That is one area I have no experience, so...no comment. :)
QuoteOne thing I do agree with is the seeming acceptance of the release of half-complete games. This does seem to be becoming an industry standard.
I contrast that, though, with the almost absurd ease with which we can buy games now through venues like Steam, and the utter availability of information about a game to help the consumer make an informed purchase decision.
Agree and agree. It is interesting that in light of the latter, you would think the former (incomplete games) would improve. But it hasn't. Odd, that.
QuoteIt is maybe a bit depressing to not be able to go to a game store anymore and browse the back of the boxes to decide what to pick up, but on the other hand, I don't even need to leave my house anymore in order to get almost any game I want instantaneously. The ability to have immediate gratification is great.
I never missed having to go to the store, or needing to find room for more game boxes! ;D When I downloaded my first digitally distributed game - trivia: it was Sins of a Solar Empire! - I was instantly in love with the idea!
QuoteI don't like the new practice of including pre-order DLC in a purchase if you pre-order the game, to circumvent the intelligent consumer waiting for post-release information to become available before deciding to purchase. I think this is bullshit. This can be avoided easily if you're someone that is patient enough to wait for the inevitable sale or bundle offer, but there is value in being in on a popular game on day 1. By the time I really get into Shogun 2 you guys are going to be on to the next Total War title...it makes for a pretty lonely conversation when you're 3 years behind on your gaming from everyone else!
Yup. Unless the game is something that really appeals to me, I am inclined to wait for some sort of bundle, or even ad hoc sale. And seeing how long it takes for most games to get on their feet post launch, I am usually better for waiting. However, I do miss the days of having a launch day party where everybody is playing and celebrating and sharing their experiences with a new game. Nowadays, though, launch day is usually more about a party built around support requests. :(
I take the NASA approach and get games that have been proven, enjoyed and modded in a professional manner. this format saves me money and more importantly aggravation. I realized a long time ago that I can play any game on ultra settings but rarely do so because Im usually to busy playing to give a shit. this leads directly back to my first statement.
Ive got no problem waiting for what I want because the games I play are more proven then an AK-47 and continue to work and produce enjoyment.
meanwhile the rest of you fucktards (said lovingly) seem to be stuck here:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.writeraccess.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fwheres-the-beef1.jpg&hash=45220af615135c68ec8843a479f6113d56585d5b)
LB is going through his annual "pitf" ball busting.
the simple truth is that it wasnt even worth the fucking time (which I did state almost 2 years ago).
I got 99 problems and a shit game aint one.
Quote from: RooksBailey on September 30, 2014, 11:38:09 PM
QuoteBut I can't help that some folks in this thread are looking through the prism of nostalgia sometimes.
Well, that is one thing you cannot accuse me of. :) I think our difference of opinion stems from the fact that I am precisely the type of gamer who is always looking for the "hot, new thing." When I look for fresh experiences in the above mentioned genres, I find very little to be excited about (with the exception of turn-based, that seems to be gathering speed).
In that context I guess I can see your point. I definitely cherry-pick games that hold some sort of interest for me, but are not necessarily hot or new.
When I think of shooters I think of everything from Doom to HALO to CoD. But if you narrow down the genre, then it seems you may be correct. Someone on SimHQ just recently posted a thread bemoaning the lack of tactical shooters and the SimHQ'ers seem to be in agreement that it is a sad time.
I don't necessarily agree, but I only play a few so I'm not as into the genre as the hardcore tactical guys.
have you checked out Watch Simulator IV - Omega?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 01, 2014, 01:31:05 AM
have you checked out Watch Simulator IV - Omega?
Write your d@amn review. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Flongblade%2FSmilies%2Ffrying-pan-smash_zpsb423b93d.gif&hash=7e177228b028f0db441d2743153fd1359224556b)
Then you will be permitted to heckle.
I need not your permission to heckle.
its in my mission statement.
much like Gus being the go to guy for dwarf tossing, standing on a lawn and catching viruses.
or Mirth catching a virus at all.
Quote from: Toonces on September 30, 2014, 09:21:32 PM
The only glaring exception to gaming where I feel that we've taken some sort of step backwards is in combat flight simming. The up and coming flight sims all seem to be skimping on gameplay at the expense of systems fidelity, graphics, or just plain laziness. Or all three. And there really aren't a lot of new flight sims up and coming...the market is slowly coalescing around a few: ED, 777, a handful of others.
Completely agree regarding flight sims. They're the only oddball genre that has gone backwards in gameplay variety & options.
I'm pretty sure WOFF is the only flight sim I've purchased that was built with a good campaign system in.. 15 years IIRC. At least ROF has a "Beta" dynamic campaign although it still falls short on results. We've lost these great immersive experiences in exchange for what? Pushing buttons with our mouse? The trade-off isn't worth it.
Quote from: Martok on September 30, 2014, 04:01:23 PM
Generally, I agree with Toonces as well. I do sometimes wonder if in the current times we're seeing an example of quantity trumping quality, but overall I'd say he's correct.
Quote from: MengJiao on September 30, 2014, 08:41:30 AM
About 6 years ago I was probably averaging 3 hours a week-day night and 6 hours on the week-ends. That's far too much.
That's crazy talk!! :o
Well, maybe. I do seem to approach things a bit differently than the average Groghead. For example, I'd much rather fly the MIG21bis as it is in DCS world than have an immersive campaign with a less interesting aircraft or a less complete simulation. After over 30 years of computer games immersion means nothing to me. I want some kind of approach to some kind of cinematic realism with a minimum of fuss. I can work out my own narrative space if the game can give me some stuff and an editor.
So for me, games like DCS world and RoF and BoS are moving in the right direction.
I suppose I have some inconsistent responses -- I think Rome II and the coming Attila are brilliant in their evocation of another world (with some resemblance to what we know of actual history) and I suppose I mean some kind of immersive engagement. I always fondly recall the moment when my normal Parthians dismounted their Persian mercenary cavalry to form a spear wall. But I think of it in the 3rd person -- like a movie that I helped write and direct, but not something I directly witnessed as a real event.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 01, 2014, 06:51:29 AM
Quote from: Toonces on September 30, 2014, 09:21:32 PM
The only glaring exception to gaming where I feel that we've taken some sort of step backwards is in combat flight simming. The up and coming flight sims all seem to be skimping on gameplay at the expense of systems fidelity, graphics, or just plain laziness. Or all three. And there really aren't a lot of new flight sims up and coming...the market is slowly coalescing around a few: ED, 777, a handful of others.
Completely agree regarding flight sims. They're the only oddball genre that has gone backwards in gameplay variety & options.
I'm pretty sure WOFF is the only flight sim I've purchased that was built with a good campaign system in.. 15 years IIRC. At least ROF has a "Beta" dynamic campaign although it still falls short on results. We've lost these great immersive experiences in exchange for what? Pushing buttons with our mouse? The trade-off isn't worth it.
Agreed, but WOFF is really the one gem out there among a sea of mediocrity. Not only does it have a fantastic dynamic campaign, but its AI is the only AI I've ever seen, which does not automatically attack immediately, and then fight to the death. The AI pilots actually try to disengage when things aren't going their way. And sometimes you and your flight can pass an enemy flight without either side attacking. It depends on whether the AI leader believes the situation is favorable to engaging. Simply amazing!
The DCS games are interesting, but they remind me of the old Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, in that there is not much to do in them except fly around and fight within a limited area.
Hey Toonces, I went back and looked at your list and was surprised how we are largely in agreement on some of the titles and genres:
Quote from: Toonces on September 30, 2014, 01:19:11 AMSome of these games are so good, and have so many hours of potential gaming in them, that there is no way to see and appreciate everything.
Some examples:
- The Total War series: I have all of the Total War games. Sadly I have been unable to keep up with all of the DLC. But that's ok because the primary reason is that I simply haven't been able to play all of them. Even until recently I was still mucking around in M2TW- my favorite- leaving Empire, Napoleon, Shogun 2, and Rome 2 to explore. I did boot up Shogun 2 the other day and I am just blown away by the whole experience. The added depth...the graphics...the atmosphere...coming off M2TW it is just remarkable.
- Crusader Kings 2: Unbelievably replayable. With all of the hundreds of years in which to start, combined with the astounding number of rulers you can play as, this game could take a lifetime to fully explore all by itself.
- Scourge of War series: As a Civil War gamer, this is about the ultimate experience. Real time, selectable levels of command, courier system, with a sandbox mode allowing one to replay this one infinitely.
- Elite: Dangerous: A galaxy worth of space to explore, with players worldwide. A living, breathing economy influenced by players. An epic space odyssey MMO experience. I can see this sucking up hundreds to thousands of gaming hours.
- Role Playing Games: Between the new RPGs coming out every other day, how can one keep up with them unless it's at the expense of every other type of gaming? I've got a hundred hours sunk into Morrowind and I'm not even 1/3 through! And then there's still the Dragon Age series, the Witcher series, the Fallout series...and so on. And that's single player...the MMO world opens up a whole new experience and time sink.
- Flight sims: Perhaps the weak sister of the bunch, I would argue that flight sims have become technically better but have perhaps regressed somewhat backwards in gameplay. I'm looking at you, DCS and Battle of Stalingrad! Wings over Flanders Field is a notable exception. On the civilian front, though, companies like PMDG and others continue to crank out aircraft that are almost good enough (or actually are good enough) to train for their real-world counterpart. They certainly look amazing, and the detail is outstanding. And, the hardware exists to pimp out a home cockpit as real as you can afford.
I completely agree with
CK2 - in my opinion, that might be
one of the finest games ever made. Thirty years from now I have no doubt that the next gen of gamers will still be downloading it from GOG. :)
While I haven't jumped on the
Elite bandwagon yet, if the game maintains its trajectory, I do think it will be a - pardon the pun - game changer.
Scourge of War: yes! One of the best ACW games ever made (it was an honorable mention on one of my lists of the best games from the last few years). In some ways, I find it superior to the combat found in any Total War game. Fantastic wargame. However, while I am glad to see SoW 2 is being developed, I am disappointed it is leaving the ACW behind for Napoleon.
Other recent bright spots of gaming for me:
AI War: one of the most innovative and endlessly engaging and challenging 4X games I have ever played.
Sins of a Solar Empire Rebellion: getting a bit long in the tooth now, and I am disappointed that Ironclad has virtually disappeared, but it still is a fantastic and gorgeous RTS 4X title.
Frozen Synapse: Infinite tactical combat in a WEGO environment. And the best soundtrack ever.
Fallout 3: I finally returned to this game and finished it. All in all, a completely excellent game. Now I need to try New Vegas.
Skyrim:While I haven't found myself as addicted to this game as seemingly half the net is :) I do think it is a landmark title.
Those are my "new classics". Again, not too many considering my list spans six years.
I will also say that I think one of the areas where there is a feast rather than a famine is the world of Free 2 Play games. I know a lot of gamers automatically dismiss this genre but I never understood why. I have found some fantastic gameplay value in these games that are...well, free to play! Hawken still holds the #1 spot for the best mech game I ever played (sadly, though, it looks like Adhesive has disbanded, leaving the future of the game in doubt :'( ). World of Tanks and War Thunder are both solid titles. Ghost Recon Online is also a solid and polished third-person shooter. Hearthstone is a fantastic card game. Lord of the Rings Online (and Rift and many more) offer solid and entertaining RPG experiences. Team Fortress 2 is the best wacky fun you can have in a shooter. I've played all those titles for many hours and I think I probably only spent $50 combined on all of them!
Quote from: RooksBailey on October 01, 2014, 03:46:58 PM
Sins of a Solar Empire Rebellion: getting a bit long in the tooth now, and I am disappointed that Ironclad has virtually disappeared, but it still is a fantastic and gorgeous RTS 4X title.
Ironclad are working on
Sins of a Dark Age which is a MOBA. Development is painfully slow, and frankly I think they're going to miss the boat. I'm in the beta and never found a single active game to play in. :(
QuoteI will also say that I think one of the areas where there is a feast rather than a famine is the world of Free 2 Play games.
In my opinion if you look at the entirety of the F2P market it's actually the other way around - far more shit than sugar. However it is a good point. I like the F2P model when it's done well. I played
Dota 2 for a year and was quite happy to spend money on it even though it didn't confer the slightest gameplay advantage. Same goes for
Rift, which you mentioned.
One of the great things about computer gaming today, is the free development software that is available. If you cannot find what you want, then you can try and build it yourself.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1-www.craveonline.com%2Fassets%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F04%2Fweird-science.jpg&hash=2ca4ee812a16c82689d134769fa6f63ba5f5daca)
One of the greatest movies of all time.
Quote from: MetalDog on October 01, 2014, 08:12:37 PM
One of the greatest movies of all time.
Only because it had this in it...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1160.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq499%2Fwmar1967%2FMisc%2Fkelly-lebrock-lisa-1846663747_zpsa56230d9.jpg&hash=a5ec2ecf8f7114259cc22623c899ede88adc8754)
There are many more reasons than just that, but, that is as fine a reason as any to watch :)
There have been some great games out over the years.. whether it's a golden age..who knows, only time will tell.