Paradox CEO admits SotS2 a "big mistake"

Started by Martok, February 01, 2012, 03:03:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Martok

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/16322/paradox-sword-of-the-stars-2-was-a-big-failure

Fascinating. 


I'd still like to know what exactly happened.  Was it simple greed on Paradox's part, as so many feel to be the case?  Were they somehow duped and/or misled by Kerberos into believing the game was more or less complete (until it was too late)?  I'm really curious as to what actually precipitated this whole fiasco. 

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

LongBlade

I'm not privy to any inside details, but as a general observation Paradox has operated on the basis that it will release games in what many have argued is an unfinished state.

The quid pro quo of this is that Paradox has almost always delivered a series of patches to fix, upgrade, and improve the game - often several years after release.

Religious wars, of course, have broken out all over the web on the wisdom of this strategy, but clearly Paradox has stumbled in this instance.

Why? Money is the lifeblood of any business. By releasing games knowing they will need patching, cash flow helps offset the cost. A trust was established between Paradox and its customers where Paradox gave assurances that anything that didn't work at release would be fixed.

This apparently has strained that relationship enough that Paradox is changing its strategy - at least with regard to 3rd party devs. Whether products developed internally will be affected isn't clear from what I read.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

JasonPratt

Meanwhile the rest of us will plug along happily on version 1.8 of all the expansions to SotS1. (And buy the Distant Worlds series. {g})
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Jarhead0331

Who cares why it happened...I want to know what they are going to do about it.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Jarhead0331

I just read the article...more important than stating that the game was a failure, I think is the admission that releasing it in that kind of a state was a "big mistake."
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


LongBlade

My sense is that by declaring this a failure, they've admitted the code is dead. Irreparable.

I hope not, but what else could it mean?
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: LongBlade on February 01, 2012, 05:13:14 PM
My sense is that by declaring this a failure, they've admitted the code is dead. Irreparable.

I hope not, but what else could it mean?

OK...but how do you reconcile it with the other comment about the release?

Still...I really truly hope you are wrong. There is such tremendous potential in this game.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Bison

 
Quote from: LongBlade on February 01, 2012, 05:13:14 PM
My sense is that by declaring this a failure, they've admitted the code is dead. Irreparable.

I hope not, but what else could it mean?

Kerberos abandons the engine and releases Sword of the Stars 3 on the Paradox Clausewitz engine  :o

JasonPratt

Quote from: Bison on February 01, 2012, 05:18:10 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on February 01, 2012, 05:13:14 PM
My sense is that by declaring this a failure, they've admitted the code is dead. Irreparable.

I hope not, but what else could it mean?

Kerberos abandons the engine and releases Sword of the Stars 3 on the Paradox Clausewitz engine  :o

ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

republic

I own the game and its a strange amalgamation of amazing features and broken features.  Thankfully I got it on sale and with a giftcard at that.  Even after all the patches, it feels like a beta or a tech demo.  I am a huge fan of the original SOTS and 4x games in general and I think SOTS2 has some fascinating twists on old themes...but I'm afraid if they don't get it up to par soon it will be abandoned.

I know Kerberos and Paradox have stated they are committed to finishing it, but I can't see them throwing a lot of money into something that was already probably a small moneymaker.  I fear they'll just end up abandoning and refunding.

son_of_montfort

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 01, 2012, 05:11:47 PM
Who cares why it happened...I want to know what they are going to do about it.

+1000

I agree with JH, there is still a lot of potential here. I hope they aren't admitting the code is dead. And if they are, they need to provide a refund to those of us that stuck it out.
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert

Jarhead0331

If they abandon this game, Kerberos is dead to me. I'm not sure what I'll do to Paradox, but it will be creative.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Martok

#12
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 02, 2012, 07:10:54 AM
If they abandon this game, Kerberos is dead to me. I'm not sure what I'll do to Paradox, but it will be creative.
Heh.  Paradox dropping support for the game would almost be worth it, just see what you'd do.  :P 

...Almost, that is.  For as much as the original SotS isn't my cup of tea (and the sequel similarly didn't appeal to me, even before its disastrous release), it would be a shame if they simply stopped bothering to fix it.  It's clear a lot of thought and care went into the game's design & development (despite the results), to say nothing of the potentially disappointed/furious customers who purchased it. 

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

LongBlade

Quote from: republic on February 01, 2012, 11:16:32 PM
but I can't see them throwing a lot of money into something that was already probably a small moneymaker.

This is the problem.

I hate to say it, but it was probably inevitable. When your policy is to release games that are not at 100% (taking into account that no game is perfect and all games are patched) then you handicap yourself right out of the door. It is likely that everyone underestimated how much effort it would take to get the game up to speed. Now they've got a problem.

You guys are right - admitting it is the first step but it's what they do next that will make a difference.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

son_of_montfort

I'm admitting I made a "Big Mistake" when I preordered SotS2.

JH, I hate to say it, but I think Kerberos is already on my black list. I feel pretty betrayed, I was an avid fan over there and chatted with the devs pretty regularly. So when they dropped that bomb, it was almost like a personal insult!
"Now it is no accident all these conservatives are using time travel to teach our kids. It is the best way to fight back against the liberal version of history, or as it is sometimes known... history."

- Stephen Colbert

"The purpose of religion is to answer the ultimate question, are we in control or is there some greater force pulling the strings? And if the courts rule that corporations have the same religious rights that we humans do, I think we'll have our answer."

- Stephen Colbert