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DCS Discussion

Started by republic, October 28, 2013, 06:25:38 AM

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Destraex

"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Redwolf

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 02, 2022, 10:54:10 AM
Information on the status of multithreading in today's newsletter...

Quote
To date, DCS has performed most of the computational workload on a single thread (some audio components were moved to a separate thread). This was not a problem in most cases because the Graphics Processor Unit (GPU) did most of the work, and FPS was mostly limited by the performance of the GPU.

As DCS evolved, GPUs have become much more powerful whilst the performance of a single CPU core remained practically unchanged. Instead, CPU manufacturers increased the number of cores rather than the clock speed of individual cores. As a consequence, DCS performance has become CPU-limited. In parallel, DCS World has become much more complex with increased reliance on CPU calculations that has exacerbated the problem.

To improve efficiency of CPU resources usage, we have reworked the core of our engine. First, at the architectural level, it has been divided into two main threads: graphical and logical. This opens up new possibilities for further thread parallelization of calculations in both the logical and graphical parts of the engine independently.

Second, to meet the requirements of scalable multithreading, and the needs of modern graphics APIs, the graphical engine part has been significantly enhanced. In addition, many subsystems have been updated, or written from scratch.

Internal testing has begun, and we plan to release the updated DCS graphic engine (EDGE) next year. The initial release of Multithreading support will contain a fully reworked engine including preparation of the graphical frame and the separation of the graphical and logical parts onto two independent threads.

It should also be noted that the most significant performance improvements will be regarding larger missions. This will be a welcomed change, especially in multiplayer where unit numbers are typically far higher. VR performance will also see a significant performance improvement in large missions.

Stay tuned for upcoming releases.

This is what Combat Mission needs even more badly.

Toonces

I was thinking on DCS this evening for some reason. 

I don't think there's any room to complain about DCS with respect to the very solid spread of aircraft they offer.

However, I can't help but wish for some reason that they'd offer something that's truly never been done.  Something like a Backfire bomber, or a B-1, or F-111...A really unusual aircraft that simply hasn't been covered before. 

Or something like an Su-24.  A really unique cold-war aircraft.

Again, really no reason to complain with the F-14, F/A-18 and soon-to-be-released F-4.  And the study sim of the MiG-21 is welcome.  Maybe I'm just Toonces wishlisting here.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

CaptainKoloth

Quote from: Toonces on December 12, 2022, 04:53:13 PM
I was thinking on DCS this evening for some reason. 

I don't think there's any room to complain about DCS with respect to the very solid spread of aircraft they offer.

However, I can't help but wish for some reason that they'd offer something that's truly never been done.  Something like a Backfire bomber, or a B-1, or F-111...A really unusual aircraft that simply hasn't been covered before. 

Or something like an Su-24.  A really unique cold-war aircraft.

Again, really no reason to complain with the F-14, F/A-18 and soon-to-be-released F-4.  And the study sim of the MiG-21 is welcome.  Maybe I'm just Toonces wishlisting here.

I could not agree more strongly. Unfortunately I think so much of the community is driven by online PvP air to air, in only the best-known couple of Western fighters (i.e. everybody knows the F-4 and F-15) that we'll never get it because there isn't sufficient demand for more air to ground focused aircraft or multcrew bombers.

Toonces

The thing is this:  I don't know how fun these strike aircraft would be without multi-player or strong mission development, or just learning the aircraft from the fundamentals up as a study sim.

I read a post from a developer recently about fun vs. simulation.  And I wonder how fun a B-1 or Russian maritime strike aircraft would be to "play" when the objective is to get in and out with the least amount of stress; and the most interesting part is the underlying mission planning?

I guess I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. I'd love to really understand a Bear or Backfire.  On the other hand, I don't think it would be fun to fly their missions. 
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Jarhead0331

Ummmm...there are a bunch of Cold War strike aircraft already in development.

A6 intruder by Heatblur
A7 Corsair II by Flying Iron
F100D Super Sabre by Grinnelli
Tornado GR1 by Aviastorm
A1 Skyraider by Crosstail studios

There is also the C130 that's an interesting multi crew aircraft and it is rumored that the SU17/22 Fitter is in development by Magnitude 3 and Leatherneck
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


CaptainKoloth

I guess we're talking pretty narrowly about multicrew nuclear strike bombers. To Toonces' point, it might arguably not actually be that much fun to fly, but there were a bunch of them and they were obviously a pretty big deal at the time.

mikeck

#2602
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on December 12, 2022, 06:47:38 PM
Quote from: Toonces on December 12, 2022, 04:53:13 PM
I was thinking on DCS this evening for some reason. 

I don't think there's any room to complain about DCS with respect to the very solid spread of aircraft they offer.

However, I can't help but wish for some reason that they'd offer something that's truly never been done.  Something like a Backfire bomber, or a B-1, or F-111...A really unusual aircraft that simply hasn't been covered before. 

Or something like an Su-24.  A really unique cold-war aircraft.

Again, really no reason to complain with the F-14, F/A-18 and soon-to-be-released F-4.  And the study sim of the MiG-21 is welcome.  Maybe I'm just Toonces wishlisting here.

I could not agree more strongly. Unfortunately I think so much of the community is driven by online PvP air to air, in only the best-known couple of Western fighters (i.e. everybody knows the F-4 and F-15) that we'll never get it because there isn't sufficient demand for more air to ground focused aircraft or multcrew bombers.

I'd love an F-111. Like jarhead said,  I know they are planning on the Panavia Tornado GR1 and - my fav- the A-7 Corsair. I think some "red air" is badly needed but unfortunately, the Russians are a bit shy about having their aircraft developed. That's why we can't get a full fidelity Mig-29/su-27. I would think that an SU-22
Or Su-24 would be well received. I know they are Making a Mig 17 and Mig 23 but I have no interest in either
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Jarhead0331

Quote from: CaptainKoloth on December 12, 2022, 08:18:06 PM
I guess we're talking pretty narrowly about multicrew nuclear strike bombers. To Toonces' point, it might arguably not actually be that much fun to fly, but there were a bunch of them and they were obviously a pretty big deal at the time.

I'm torn on multi-crew aircraft. The concept is great and I can see the appeal for guys who like to play multiplayer. I'm almost an exclusive single player guy and these multi crew aircraft are extremely difficult to operate in a dynamic combat environment solo. It's possible with the AI systems in the Tomcat, Apache and Hind, but it is less than ideal. As much as I love the Strike Eagle, it's going to be nearly impossible to fly solo in combat. The plane just wasn't designed that way and at early access release, I don't think there will be a WSO AI at all.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Jarhead0331

#2604
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on October 19, 2022, 01:52:07 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 19, 2022, 01:12:21 PM
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on October 19, 2022, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 19, 2022, 09:15:31 AM
Quote from: Destraex on October 19, 2022, 09:05:30 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 19, 2022, 07:00:23 AM
I know there are some staunch VR holdouts out there, but, really, once you experience it, it is almost impossible to go back. We've discussed at length here and elsewhere how poorly optimized DCS is for VR. It is true that the sim desperately needs work here, but the joy and triumph of the immersion it can provide in the VR world is unlike anything else out there and makes all the tweaking and troubleshooting to maximize quality while balancing performance utterly worth it in the end.

The rift s is not a headset I would use to judge how good dcs can look in VR. That headset is at the very low end. You need to see it in a Reverb G2, Pimax 8kx or even a varjo aero if you can get your hands on one. I have all of these headsets and use them all, so I know. 

Yes, with peripherals, in VR you feel for the switches and toggles. I place adhesive beads on central or key buttons to get my tactile bearing. It works great. The motion glove technology isn't there yet, but I also do use PointCTRL, which allows direct interaction with virtual cockpit controls. It's a good alternative to dodgy devices like the captoglove.

With respect to servers, I don't really play in MP so I can't give you any feedback. I've dabbled with the thought of joining a squadron, but anytime I start feeling any sense of obligation, I pull back.
Great info thanks. It's good to have somebody around that actually has all this stuff so that we can get the low down off a trusted source.

It is sad to say, but I pretty much do have just about everything. lol

Thrustmaster, Virpil, Winwing, MFG, Saitek, CH, every major VR headset with the exception of the Index, AMD, Intel, Radeon, Nvidia, all of this in the pursuit of the ultimate DCS experience. My last two rigs alone, which were both built to conquer DCS, probably cost about $8,000 collectively. It's totally offensive and unjustifiable, but its my love and it takes me to a happy place.

Any questions, about anything in particular, just ask. We also have some others here with a good mix of hardware, like SirAndrew, et al. 

...now, should I get a 4090? lol

And having just gotten a much better paying job and a nice signing bonus, I have now embarked upon a quest to take the baton from you on this... I'll let you know how DCS looks through my Reverb G2 with my RTX 4090, overclocked liquid cooled i9-13900K, 64GB of DDR5-5600 RAM, and 4 TB of M.2 NVMe storage when the PC gets here in the next week or two  :2funny:

I am a very, very fortunate man that my wife couldn't care less about what "all that stuff in the basement" is or what it costs so long as the lights stay on!

Wow. That is a monster rig. Who did you get it from? Is it a pre-built?

Yeah, Cyberpower. If you go by the ethos of the redditsphere, having someone else build your computer puts you in league with Putin, Pol Pot and Idi Amin, but I a) know how to do it and just find it time-consuming rather than enjoyable, and b) it's a much better way to get new parts than trying to fight the mad rush to get each one individually, and I need to upgrade everything anyway rather than just e.g. the GPU. I've had good experiences with Cyberpower in the past.

You know what else this PC will have? A Sound Blaster. Yes, you read that right- Creative is still making honest-to-goodness Sound Blaster cards in 2022. They're for very different purposes now- in my case, I had bad problems with electrical noise from my motherboard on my current PC causing audio crackling. I fixed it with an external USB-based solution, but this time I'm going to do it the "right" way and get clean audio internally.

So...how is the 4090 so far? I built a 4090 rig in November and it just arrived today. I hooked it up, but I have only just tested basic functionality and confirmed internals. I'm starting to download and install all the little things I'll need to operate DCS and the other sims I'll be running. It's such a big process downloading and tweaking everything, so it'll probably be a bit before I'm running DCS in VR and have any feedback.

Hopefully, it will be worth the investment.

This is another CyberPowerPC and so far it's looking really smooth, like they hit it out of the park again.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


CaptainKoloth

#2605
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 12, 2022, 09:34:56 PM


So...how is the 4090 so far? I built a 4090 rig in November and it just arrived today. I hooked it up, but I have only just tested basic functionality and confirmed internals. I'm starting to download and install all the little things I'll need to operate DCS and the other sims I'll be running. It's such a big process downloading and tweaking everything, so it'll probably be a bit before I'm running DCS in VR and have any feedback.

Hopefully, it will be worth the investment.

This is another CyberPowerPC and so far it's looking really smooth, like they hit it out of the park again.

https://youtu.be/PX2hhQ-32g4.
I'll write up a more detailed AAR when I get home later, but yeah, it's awesome. And same experience here: it's a Cyberpower build and it's flawless.

I'll have to share my DCS settings with you to save you at least some of the tweaking time- I have it ALMOST totally maxed out in VR, but I did back off on a few settings.

It took me a good week of fiddling to really have everything on the PC up and running and start really gaming on it. Beware- if you use a Windows MR headset like the Reverb and have Windows 11, you must do this- scroll down to Martsum's comment. I run that as a .bat file every time I start the PC. If you don't you get horrible stuttering. This fixes it.

The you living in the other quantum many worlds reality who's been struggling with this problem for a week will thank me.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: CaptainKoloth on December 13, 2022, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 12, 2022, 09:34:56 PM


So...how is the 4090 so far? I built a 4090 rig in November and it just arrived today. I hooked it up, but I have only just tested basic functionality and confirmed internals. I'm starting to download and install all the little things I'll need to operate DCS and the other sims I'll be running. It's such a big process downloading and tweaking everything, so it'll probably be a bit before I'm running DCS in VR and have any feedback.

Hopefully, it will be worth the investment.

This is another CyberPowerPC and so far it's looking really smooth, like they hit it out of the park again.

https://youtu.be/PX2hhQ-32g4.
I'll write up a more detailed AAR when I get home later, but yeah, it's awesome. And same experience here: it's a Cyberpower build and it's flawless.

I'll have to share my DCS settings with you to save you at least some of the tweaking time- I have it ALMOST totally maxed out in VR, but I did back off on a few settings.

Awesome! What headset are you using? I'm leaning toward trying with my Varjo Aero or Pimax 8KX. I'll use my Reverb G2 on my 3080TI system.

So happy to hear that some piece of hardware may finally have tamed DCS.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


CaptainKoloth

#2607
Edited my comment to add some technical detail so see above- I'm on a Reverb G2 right now. Waiting for the mythical Pimax 12K to one day appear before I upgrade again.

Skoop

The F15E looks like it's coming along nicely, day one purchase for me, mudhen will be a blast.  Looks like razbam is pushing dcs radar tech to a new level from the pics I've seen.  Supposedly you should be able to fly it as a single pilot, any functions specific to the rio will have hot keys for the pilot to manage.

I feel like the mudhen rio will be less complicated to operate in multicrew, how I understand it, if you can fly the mudhen single, you can easily function as a rio.  Unlike the tomcat, a tomcat rio is the ultimate unique function and finding a good one on a dcs server is like finding a unicorn.  You pretty much have to join a dedicated group to find a good tomcat rio.

The F15E on the other hand will probably have more people jumping in there cause the functionality is the same in both seats, it's really just 2 heads are better than one in the mudhen.

Jarhead0331

Quote from: Skoop on December 13, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
The F15E looks like it's coming along nicely, day one purchase for me, mudhen will be a blast.  Looks like razbam is pushing dcs radar tech to a new level from the pics I've seen.  Supposedly you should be able to fly it as a single pilot, any functions specific to the rio will have hot keys for the pilot to manage.

I feel like the mudhen rio will be less complicated to operate in multicrew, how I understand it, if you can fly the mudhen single, you can easily function as a rio.  Unlike the tomcat, a tomcat rio is the ultimate unique function and finding a good one on a dcs server is like finding a unicorn.  You pretty much have to join a dedicated group to find a good tomcat rio.

The F15E on the other hand will probably have more people jumping in there cause the functionality is the same in both seats, it's really just 2 heads are better than one in the mudhen.

Real pilots and WSOs describe it as virtually impossible to operate solo, and this was in the context of DCS. In a game, of course it can be done, but it is just not the way the aircraft was designed to be operated, real or sim. The operational load of its systems is just too high.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18