It's pissing rain here so plans to hit the beach went out the window and I instead went to watch 12 Strong. It's based on a true story about a US special forces team sent into Afghanistan right after 9/11 with orders to link up with elements of the Northern Alliance, win their trust, and help them push the Taliban out of the strategic town of Mazar-I-Sharif.
It was decent. Little heavy handed on the manly-men saying manly things in a manly way then staring off wistfully while patriotic music plays but otherwise decent. I would like to know if the diversity police got involved as one of the special forces guys in the film is black but at the end, they showed a photo of the actual team and I didn't see any black guys on it. The photo was grainy and only up for a short time so I may not have seen him. Would be kind of lame if they altered history to suit the OC police otherwise.
This one's on my 'to see' list too but I'm also wondering how much Hollywood's taken-over the real story and subbed Cowboys on horse-back killing tanks action flick with guys fighting for Social Justice and Gender Neutrality type film. Anybody here know the 'real' story? :cowboy:
The combat seemed like it got too much of the Hollywood touch. Armor didn't really do anything at all other than drive around and get taken out by airstrikes. Apart from one T-72 firing its main gun once, the only fire from any of the tanks or APCs came from commander's 14.5mm MGs and the gunners were always taken out with a well timed burst of fire. Losing the guy manning the MG seemed to take out the tank every time. The only vehicle that was ever portrayed as a credible threat was a BM.21 rocket truck. Ranges seemed too close for the low casualties the good guys sustained (well the main guys and the horses. Afghan red shirts were dropping like flies.) and the violence was pretty sanitized. Lots of shots of airstrikes hitting Taliban troops but there was very little blood and bodies were always whole and relatively bloodless.
What I was afraid of. :hide:
I can tell you that Moviebob, who is pretty radical-left, did not think this film was PC enough. ::) But his complaints were more along the lines of the movie's politics being sanitized in a way that seems to flatter and appeal to Republicans.
Just got back from seeing this with my son. It was a pretty good story but as with any 'real life' movie I take a healthy dose of skepticism going in. To be honest I had no idea this story existed and didn't know about the movie until it hit theaters, but after having seen it I want to read up on it and learn more.
I agree with SDR's summation wholeheartedly and would add it was fun watching soldiers that had never spent any time in the saddle (except Thor, apparently) fire from the hip at a full gallop and not only hit but kill everything they shot at. :idiot2:
The wife and I saw it tonight too and I agree unfortunately, I think it's about 75-80% Hollywood BS but it was exciting BS anyway. From what little I've read the Afghans did all the fighting and the Taliban did not posses whole companies of T-72 tanks, BMP's, and Rocket Batteries. But maybe I'm wrong here. After all it was a 'classified' mission. And, yes the unit photo at the end had no black guy in it like in the movie but maybe he was very short and standing behind everybody else. Could happen. :-"
https://twitter.com/SeanParnellUSA/status/957422492947279873
The tweet he responded to totally deserved that.
I don't know if it's the same one or not but some Hollywood Lib has said movies like this promote 'toxic masculinity' in males. So it's too late to save me, but for the rest of you, maybe you could watch "Mary Poppins" non-stop for 3-4 days and cleanse your system. Just a thought.
Sure. Recommend a film wherein a woman is relegated to the role of nurturer and servant you sexist, elitist, patriarchal cis-normative shit lord! Down with the patriarchy and so on and so forth.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on January 29, 2018, 06:33:31 AM
The tweet he responded to totally deserved that.
Oh hell to the yeah
I need to see that tweet and then start hating my penis.
Yeah - skewing the truth has never happened before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-571_(film)
Did any of you actually shout when that was released? Or does it not matter when the heroic actions of a particular nation's armed forces is stolen and portrayed by another nation's armed forces - at least the black guy in the film was still American, right?
Or is it just the inclusion of black/female/Asian/insert other minority here people into a film making it "a lie" that gets yer back up? :DD
And my point isn't tit-for-tat but that it goes on and so perhaps should the conversation.
I still love the Tigers in The Battle of the Bulge! And of course the Climatic huge tank battle in the desert!
Just to be clear, my penis and I came to a mutually agreeable accommodation years ago.
Quote from: Tuna on January 29, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
I still love the Tigers in The Battle of the Bulge!
To be clear : Tigers participated in the Battle of the Bulge (source : https://www.amazon.com/Time-Trumpets-Untold-Story-Battle/dp/0688151574 / https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_25.HTM#p651)
Schwere Panzer Abteilung 301 (attached to the 9th Panzer Division) had Tigers I.
Kampfgruppe Peiper (Schwere Panzer Abteilung 501 attached to the 1st SS Panzer Division) had a few Konigtigers (Tiger II)
Free book : Battle of the Bulge by Hugh M. Cole https://history.army.mil/html/books/007/7-8-1/CMH_Pub_7-8-1.pdf
Part of this
very large collection : https://history.army.mil/catalog/browse/title.html#u
He was referring to the fact that the "Tigers" in the movie were Pattons that had been painted gray and given German markings.
That film was rife with historical inaccuracies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge_(film)#Historical_inaccuracies
On the other hand, it did give us this scene
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 01:45:58 PM
He was referring to the fact that the "Tigers" in the movie were Pattons that had been painted gray and given German markings.
That film was rife with historical inaccuracies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bulge_(film)#Historical_inaccuracies
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpics.imcdb.org%2F0is101%2Ftankbccw2.7241.jpg&hash=1f185685a4f4477012c1e1a57e5c48debd1b6caa)
^King Tigers!
:D
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 01:45:58 PM
He was referring to the fact that the "Tigers" in the movie were Pattons that had been painted gray and given German markings.
I see. But that is true for most WWII movies.
Patton : The tanks used in the major battle scene in North Africa are post-war tanks. On the German side the M48 tank (1953) was used and on the American side the M41 Walker Bulldog (1953), M46 Patton (1949) and (mostly) M47 Patton tanks (1952). Ironically, the M46, M47 and M48 were named "Patton." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066206/goofs
Saving Private Ryan : The Tiger tanks portrayed in the movie are actually Soviet T-34s. You could tell by looking at their wheels. Real Tigers had interleaved wheels. These Tigers had the T-34 suspension. Obviously, Tigers are so rare (only one operational Tiger left) that another tank had to be substituted. But an excellent job was done to make the T-34s look like Tigers. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120815/goofs/?tab=gf&ref_=tt_trv_gf
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
There weren't
The entire battle was fought personally between Hitler and Roosevelt piloting Atomic Battle Krakens. Roosevelt slew Hitler with a blow from his servo-hammer, only to be betrayed by his former ally Stalin, who arrived in his Kraken "Red Fury" and stabbed FDR in the back with a hyper lance. This is how Truman became President.
I should know, I'm a history teacher.
But it is true that after commanding Tiger tanks in the Battle of the Bulge, the German Colonel changed his name, moved to America and hunted sharks for the rest of his life. BIG sharks.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 29, 2018, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
There weren't
The entire battle was fought personally between Hitler and Roosevelt piloting Atomic Battle Krakens. Roosevelt slew Hitler with a blow from his servo-hammer, only to be betrayed by his former ally Stalin, who arrived in his Kraken "Red Fury" and stabbed FDR in the back with a hyper lance. This is how Truman became President.
I should know, I'm a history teacher.
I stand corrected.
Quote from: Sir Slash on January 29, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
But it is true that after commanding Tiger tanks in the Battle of the Bulge, the German Colonel changed his name, moved to America and hunted sharks for the rest of his life. BIG sharks.
That's what I love about this place. You learn new things every day!
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 29, 2018, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
There weren't
The entire battle was fought personally between Hitler and Roosevelt piloting Atomic Battle Krakens. Roosevelt slew Hitler with a blow from his servo-hammer, only to be betrayed by his former ally Stalin, who arrived in his Kraken "Red Fury" and stabbed FDR in the back with a hyper lance. This is how Truman became President.
I should know, I'm a history teacher.
Goddamit, you just gave Harry Turtledove another good idea to destroy in 600 pages of mediocre writing. >:(
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
Mirth's got my back! O0
Quote from: BanzaiCat on January 29, 2018, 04:12:32 PM
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 29, 2018, 02:56:39 PM
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 02:22:50 PM
^sure. I know about all of those. I was just pointing out that Tuna's comment wasn't meant to imply that there weren't Tigers at the Bulge.
There weren't
The entire battle was fought personally between Hitler and Roosevelt piloting Atomic Battle Krakens. Roosevelt slew Hitler with a blow from his servo-hammer, only to be betrayed by his former ally Stalin, who arrived in his Kraken "Red Fury" and stabbed FDR in the back with a hyper lance. This is how Truman became President.
I should know, I'm a history teacher.
Goddamit, you just gave Harry Turtledove another good idea to destroy in 600 pages of mediocre writing. >:(
I've already submitted a copyright application for "Atomic Battle Kraken"
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 04:24:10 PM
I've already submitted a copyright application for "Atomic Battle Kraken"
When I was in my senior year, I took a Cold War class with one of my regular professors and mentors. On a take home test where we were to go into the lead up political reasons for the Vietnam War, I wrote and extensive answer that involved Battle Krakens, Hitler's broken body recuperating in a Storm Shrouded Castle in Hanoi and getting bionic upgrades, Mecha-JFK ect. It was pretty epic. I gave the real answer after about two pages.
The funny thing is that it ended up making sense and fitting with history by the end.
:DD
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 29, 2018, 07:31:12 PM
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 04:24:10 PM
I've already submitted a copyright application for "Atomic Battle Kraken"
When I was in my senior year, I took a Cold War class with one of my regular professors and mentors. On a take home test where we were to go into the lead up political reasons for the Vietnam War, I wrote and extensive answer that involved Battle Krakens, Hitler's broken body recuperating in a Storm Shrouded Castle in Hanoi and getting bionic upgrades, Mecha-JFK ect. It was pretty epic. I gave the real answer after about two pages.
The funny thing is that it ended up making sense and fitting with history by the end.
I like how you roll
Quote from: mirth on January 29, 2018, 07:36:22 PM
I like how you roll
He deserved it. The step for the first question on that test was "Read Gar Alperovitz's "The Decision to use the Atomic Bomb". This is why you never accept a professor's offer to skip finals for a take home exam.