Tensions between Turkey & Greece

Started by MOS:96B2P, September 05, 2020, 09:05:27 PM

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MOS:96B2P

From the linked article:

The two NATO allies have been locked for weeks in a tense standoff in the eastern Mediterranean, where Turkey is prospecting the seabed for energy reserves in an area Greece claims as its own continental shelf.

Cyprus has also accused Turkey of breaching its sovereignty by drilling in their waters. All sides have deployed naval and air forces to assert their competing claims in the region.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/09/erdogan-raises-rhetoric-greece-standoff-mediterranean-200905171928246.html

Jarhead0331

Tough situation for Greece. Logistically, they are in a far more difficult position than Turkey...particularly where Cyprus is concerned. Not sure if an armed confrontation makes much sense for Greece.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


airboy

The Ottoman Empire, then Turkey was heavily punished after WW1.  Pretty much every speck of land in the Eastern Med was awarded to Greece.  As a result, you have lots of Greek islands in sight of the Turkish mainland.

NATO kept this on the back burner.  Turkey hoped to join the EU which also mostly kept this on the back burner, but eventually the Turks figured out the EU would never allow them to join the EU under any circumstances.  They felt screwed after bearing a lot of defense burden against the USSR for decades.

At this point, Turkey is a nominal NATO ally.  Greece has always deployed most of their armed forces against Turkey - regardless of what NATO wanted.

Both the Greeks and the Turks indoctrinate their people to hate each other.  The Greeks keep their ceremonial military garb with one knot (or tassel - I forget which) for every year they were under Ottoman rule.

I've visited both countries many times and like the people of both.  But they really dislike each other and it is taught in school. 

MOS:96B2P

Quote from: airboy on September 05, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
The Ottoman Empire, then Turkey was heavily punished after WW1.  Pretty much every speck of land in the Eastern Med was awarded to Greece.  As a result, you have lots of Greek islands in sight of the Turkish mainland.

NATO kept this on the back burner.  Turkey hoped to join the EU which also mostly kept this on the back burner, but eventually the Turks figured out the EU would never allow them to join the EU under any circumstances.  They felt screwed after bearing a lot of defense burden against the USSR for decades.

At this point, Turkey is a nominal NATO ally.  Greece has always deployed most of their armed forces against Turkey - regardless of what NATO wanted.

Both the Greeks and the Turks indoctrinate their people to hate each other.  The Greeks keep their ceremonial military garb with one knot (or tassel - I forget which) for every year they were under Ottoman rule.

I've visited both countries many times and like the people of both.  But they really dislike each other and it is taught in school. 

Interesting stuff.  Probably another example of how "punishing" treaties often lead to additional problems down the road. 

In the article (if I understood correctly) the Turks were redeploying a tank unit (not sure the size) from the Syrian border to the Greek border.  This makes me wonder how many operationally ready tank units the Turks have.  Don't they already have tank units in the western area of their country?  For some reason they pull a tank unit from the Syrian border and send it west. Just made me curious why they did it this way...........       

Pete Dero

Quote from: MOS:96B2P on September 07, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 05, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
The Ottoman Empire, then Turkey was heavily punished after WW1.  Pretty much every speck of land in the Eastern Med was awarded to Greece.  As a result, you have lots of Greek islands in sight of the Turkish mainland.

NATO kept this on the back burner.  Turkey hoped to join the EU which also mostly kept this on the back burner, but eventually the Turks figured out the EU would never allow them to join the EU under any circumstances.  They felt screwed after bearing a lot of defense burden against the USSR for decades.

At this point, Turkey is a nominal NATO ally.  Greece has always deployed most of their armed forces against Turkey - regardless of what NATO wanted.

Both the Greeks and the Turks indoctrinate their people to hate each other.  The Greeks keep their ceremonial military garb with one knot (or tassel - I forget which) for every year they were under Ottoman rule.

I've visited both countries many times and like the people of both.  But they really dislike each other and it is taught in school. 

Interesting stuff.  Probably another example of how "punishing" treaties often lead to additional problems down the road. 

In the article (if I understood correctly) the Turks were redeploying a tank unit (not sure the size) from the Syrian border to the Greek border.  This makes me wonder how many operationally ready tank units the Turks have.  Don't they already have tank units in the western area of their country?  For some reason they pull a tank unit from the Syrian border and send it west. Just made me curious why they did it this way...........     

The Turkish Land Forces, have 2,622 tanks *, 8,777 armoured fighting vehicles, 1,278 self-propelled guns, 1,260 pieces of towed-artillery and 438 multiple-launch rocket systems.

Meanwhile, the country has 300 fighter aircraft **, 80 transport aircraft, 276 training aircraft and 497 helicopters.

The Turkish navy has 16 frigates, 10 corvettes, 35 patrol boats, 11 mine warfare vessels and 12 submarines.

* 400 Leopard I
   350 Leopard 2a
   rest are older M48 and M60 Patton's

** 50 F-4 Phantom & 250 F-16 C/D

https://www.foarces.net/world/turkish-military-numbers
https://armedforces.eu/Turkey

MOS:96B2P

Quote from: Pete Dero on September 07, 2020, 04:18:23 PM
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on September 07, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
Quote from: airboy on September 05, 2020, 10:23:34 PM
The Ottoman Empire, then Turkey was heavily punished after WW1.  Pretty much every speck of land in the Eastern Med was awarded to Greece.  As a result, you have lots of Greek islands in sight of the Turkish mainland.

NATO kept this on the back burner.  Turkey hoped to join the EU which also mostly kept this on the back burner, but eventually the Turks figured out the EU would never allow them to join the EU under any circumstances.  They felt screwed after bearing a lot of defense burden against the USSR for decades.

At this point, Turkey is a nominal NATO ally.  Greece has always deployed most of their armed forces against Turkey - regardless of what NATO wanted.

Both the Greeks and the Turks indoctrinate their people to hate each other.  The Greeks keep their ceremonial military garb with one knot (or tassel - I forget which) for every year they were under Ottoman rule.

I've visited both countries many times and like the people of both.  But they really dislike each other and it is taught in school. 

Interesting stuff.  Probably another example of how "punishing" treaties often lead to additional problems down the road. 

In the article (if I understood correctly) the Turks were redeploying a tank unit (not sure the size) from the Syrian border to the Greek border.  This makes me wonder how many operationally ready tank units the Turks have.  Don't they already have tank units in the western area of their country?  For some reason they pull a tank unit from the Syrian border and send it west. Just made me curious why they did it this way...........     

The Turkish Land Forces, have 2,622 tanks *, 8,777 armoured fighting vehicles, 1,278 self-propelled guns, 1,260 pieces of towed-artillery and 438 multiple-launch rocket systems.

Meanwhile, the country has 300 fighter aircraft **, 80 transport aircraft, 276 training aircraft and 497 helicopters.

The Turkish navy has 16 frigates, 10 corvettes, 35 patrol boats, 11 mine warfare vessels and 12 submarines.

* 400 Leopard I
   350 Leopard 2a
   rest are older M48 and M60 Patton's

** 50 F-4 Phantom & 250 F-16 C/D

https://www.foarces.net/world/turkish-military-numbers
https://armedforces.eu/Turkey

Thank you for taking the time to put together that reply.  Interesting numbers.

I suspected they had a lot of tanks.  Over 2,600 it seems.  I find it odd that they pulled a tank unit from a troubled border area to send to a different border.  It makes me wonder how many of these 2,600 tanks are considered combat ready, operationally able to deploy as a unit and in units that are trusted by the regime.  Not a single tank unit closer to Greece than the Syrian border that could perform a saber rattling mission? 

Back in the 1980s I was an all source Intelligence Analyst in the US Army.  I can't help but to ask silly questions sometimes.  ;D