Author Topic: FL apartment building collapsed  (Read 1067 times)

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Offline Dammit Carl!

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2021, 06:34:27 AM »
If this is the cause of the collapse, I am shocked at the wanton disregard for life.

I'm not, but I'm a jaded, old man. 

And your avatar just clicked in my head and I giggled like mad.

Offline Gusington

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2021, 06:51:56 AM »
^I just read that report literally 30 seconds ago. As early as the 1990s. At least 20 years. Unreal.
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Offline steve58

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2021, 08:26:41 AM »
Damn, sounds like they knew something was up decades ago...and did nothing.
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Offline Gusington

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2021, 08:29:17 AM »
Number of missing is now up to...159...Jesus.
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2021, 06:26:59 AM »
1. so the building had been sinking because of being built on reclaimed marshy ground.  this isnt that uncommon down here due to the type of land and where it was built.  all the newer building have piling that are sunk to some really deep levels to counter this.

2. there are reports and lawsuits about how the building has been maintained.  these specifically deal with black mold and water damage.  reportedly 1 owner has sued twice.

3. the complaints, imo, about the recent building in the area are valid.  these are MUCH larger structures and sinking in the afoementioned pilings could definitely effect this building so close by.

4. there was roof work being done at the time and we've also had a shit ton of rain lately.

5. the section that collapsed wasnt part of the core building even though it was all built at the same time.

so heres what I think went down.  the building already had water damage in the concrete but thats probably limited to the periphery around the building.
the work on the roof let more water/moisture get in between the core and periphery seam of the upper levels of the building so that when the upper section collapsed you had a 9/11 style pancaking down the side of the structure.  being an older building in that neighborhood ment that its not seasonal so that explains the 80% occupancy.  I'm actually surprised that pre-Andrew buildings don't have shorter mandatory inspection periods.  I'm also sure thats about to change dramatically as we have some of the strictest building codes in the country.  unfortunately this was built 12 years before those codes came into effect.
all around a fucking tragedy.
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2021, 06:28:04 AM »
Damn, sounds like they knew something was up decades ago...and did nothing.

all large buildings settle as not everyone is lucky enough to build on a giant granite slab like NYC.
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

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Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2021, 06:29:58 AM »
Where's Star when we need his professional opinion?

oddly enough I was in Miami hanging out with my brother before he left for California this morning.
the fucking joys of Miami International at 7am...  ::)
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline Sir Slash

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2021, 08:20:23 AM »
I have BEEN there!  :hide:  Miami International is the original Cluster--uck. So, preventable in your opinion or Act of God?
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2021, 08:38:36 AM »
it was never ment to service the number of people that are here now.  Dade county really needs another airport.

also a clarification on the collapse I just thought of.  if there was already water damage to the building that resulted in hairline cracks in the concrete then the close proximity construction would definitely make those cracks bigger due to resonance.  a simple fact of construction is that water always finds a way.  so hairline cracks allow water to get into and saturate the concrete which then eventually gets to the rebar which then starts to slowly rust and weaken.  add in poor maintenance, 2 months of spring floriduh weather and roof replacement and POOF!
Toonces - Don't ask me, I just close my eyes and take it.

Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

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Offline Gusington

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2021, 10:12:22 AM »
Is it much of a stretch to say that other buildings in the area are vulnerable? Or is this a very unique set of circumstances coming together for an 'unlucky lottery' type of thing?
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Offline Uberhaus

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2021, 10:25:24 AM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57621774

Quote
The engineer's report, which has just been made public, said the fault prevented water draining from the base of the seafront Champlain Towers... 
The building consultant's report from three years ago came to light in a series of documents made public by the town of Surfside.

The engineer, Frank Morabito, said the lack of proper drainage was "a systemic issue" that stemmed from a flaw "in the development of the original contract documents".
He flagged what he called "major structural damage" to the concrete platform beneath the swimming pool deck.  "The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas," he wrote. "Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially."

The engineer also referred to "abundant cracking… of columns, beams and walls" in the parking garage.

His report didn't suggest the 40-year-old building was at any imminent risk of collapse but he urged that the concrete repairs be carried out in "a timely fashion"...
Kenneth Direktor, a lawyer involved in the work, was quoted in the New York Times as saying engineers had identified rusted steel and damaged concrete that needed repairing, but added that he saw nothing to suggest the collapse had anything to do with that review.

I have become a cynical man, but I am still shocked that this kind of structural deterioration would be treated like a can to be kicked down the road.  It's not cracking concrete slabs in your backyard patio, it's the structural integrity for a large residential building.  Now other news sources are reporting rescue efforts impeded by a fire probably from cars buried in the underground parking.

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Offline Pete Dero

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2021, 10:27:42 AM »
Same as the BBC article but these include pictures of the damage.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/26/us/miami-building-collapse-investigation.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

https://www.thedailybeast.com/engineer-warned-of-major-structural-damage-to-champlain-tower-before-miami-condo-collapse?ref=home

A structural engineer hired by the Champlain Towers South in 2018 to review possible repair needs warned of “major structural damage” to the concrete foundations of the oceanfront condo.
The town of Surfside released the engineer’s report late on Friday, as investigators and residents searched for answers on how a 12-story building could have suddenly fallen to the ground, leaving four people dead and 159 still missing under huge piles of rubble.

Morabito’s report found that the waterproofing installed beneath the pool deck, entrance area, and planters was “beyond its useful life and therefore must all be completely removed and replaced.”
“The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replace the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” it warned.
The issue stemmed from a “major” error made by the building’s original architects and engineers, the report said. Rather than making the reinforced concrete slab beneath the pool deck and entrance to be sloped, it was made flat. Therefore, water had to sit on the waterproofing until it evaporated, instead of flowing freely to deck drains.







Offline solops

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2021, 11:02:59 AM »
This is why I live in central Texas, where we have no rain or water. This solves many problems.

It has been my experience as an engineer that few people really want to hear what we have to tell them because it usually requires them to spend money.
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Offline Dammit Carl!

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2021, 11:20:29 AM »
Is it much of a stretch to say that other buildings in the area are vulnerable? Or is this a very unique set of circumstances coming together for an 'unlucky lottery' type of thing?

Not a local or an engineer, but I'd wager that that wasn't the only building in such a state in that area.

Lord, those poor people.  :-[

Offline steve58

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Re: FL apartment building collapsed
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2021, 12:42:29 PM »
Sounds like the pool went first and may have caused/contributed to the rest of the collapse.
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