US Army to be cut to pre-WWII levels??!!

[bayonetbrant]

must-read context

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/opponents-of-pentagon-budget-cuts-just-played-the-entire-media/284058/

[endfire79]

must-read context

http://m.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/opponents-of-pentagon-budget-cuts-just-played-the-entire-media/284058/

Excellent article Brant.  It highlights an article that has a bit less bit less sensationalism:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26326969

[GDS_Starfury]

and the thing that few people seem to understand is the largest part of our defence budget goes to payroll and benefits (regardless of how badly thats managed).

[Labbug]

The Atlantic article is playing with dates.  The 1940 numbers are accurate but the U.S. did not enter WWII until December of 1941. During 1941 and before December of 1941, the U.S. Army went to 1.3 million men. 

[OJsDad]

and the thing that few people seem to understand is the largest part of our defence budget goes to payroll and benefits (regardless of how badly thats managed).

About $161B for personnel and another $2.5B for family housing. 

[GDS_Starfury]

Does that include pensions,  VA costs and monues paid to families?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

[Centurion40]

So, what happens when China decides it want's to annex Korea.  Their comms are secure with land lines but anyone trying to assist Korea may be in a world of hurt.

Begs the question- does it really matter if the Chinese rule Korea like they rule Hong Kong?  Is it worth the cost of the US garrison in Korea, the 7th Fleet, 7th Air Force, etc.?  I don't have the answer.  I like having the US as the stabilizing force behind my way of life.  But ultimately, it is not my call- nor do I have any say in it.

[OJsDad]

So, what happens when China decides it want's to annex Korea.  Their comms are secure with land lines but anyone trying to assist Korea may be in a world of hurt.

Begs the question- does it really matter if the Chinese rule Korea like they rule Hong Kong?  Is it worth the cost of the US garrison in Korea, the 7th Fleet, 7th Air Force, etc.?  I don't have the answer.  I like having the US as the stabilizing force behind my way of life.  But ultimately, it is not my call- nor do I have any say in it.

Great questions.  I don't have the answer either.  Do we stand with other Democracies or do we bring the troops home and hope that everything works out all right.  Korea was just the first to come to mind.  What happens if they take Korea.  Are they then more poised to take Japan.  I'm in favor of the US becoming less reliant on Middle East oil and not needing to maintain US forces there.  But I'm not sure I'm willing to allow Iran to start absorbing other Gulf States. 

I've been wondering if the US could pull 8th Army out and setup POMCUS sites.  Don't know if that would work or not.

In 2013, trade between the US and SK was $103B.  Between US and Japan for 2013 was $203B. 

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance

[Greybriar]

I say let's put the U.S. Army to work making our border safe before getting rid of any troops:

Where's General Pershing when you need him?  ;)

[Centurion40]

I'd like to think that Chinese do not have any designs on adding Korea or Japan to the People's Republic!  I would think that Taiwan (which is full of actual Chinese people) would be real prize.  If they go for Taiwan, then it would be time to gird our loins.  If they went for Korea or Japan, then it would be time to cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war.

I would agree that democracies should defend other democracies, all things being equal.

[bayonetbrant]

Where's General Pershing when you need him?  ;)

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I say let's put the U.S. Army to work making our border safe before getting rid of any troops:

Where's General Pershing when you need him?  ;)

I agree. It is fairly gross negligence on the part of civilian overseers to let crime run rampant over the border while armies wander around other continents. Yes, people will say Rome never let it's armies run domestically, they were afraid of their armies. Rome never made any pretext of those armies being for defense. They were clearly armies of conquest. I do not understand the logic in this age of not using the armies for homeland defense. So there is a whole other department for that?

For a lot of other democracies our armies are used for "states of emergency" such as natural disasters or anything else that comes up. We assume we control our armies. In the US there seems to be a strange fear of government power at the same time as you use that government power overseas. Is it under control or not?

You have most of the world's defensive power. You don't use it domestically.
You hate the idea of socialism and welfare. But it is good for the military, cant cut the holy military sector.


I think Saudi has to counter Iran. It's their area, they have the money.
Japan has to take the lead in countering China with other small Asian countries.
The EU has to learn to defend Europe.

The US simply does not have the funds to try to control what is happening all over the world. Every empire that has tried has fallen. Protect your land and people first. Make transition careers that give army people skills for the real economy. The military is not investment that generates more wealth, it is a cost center.

[OJsDad]

I agree. It is fairly gross negligence on the part of civilian overseers to let crime run rampant over the border while armies wander around other continents. Yes, people will say Rome never let it's armies run domestically, they were afraid of their armies. Rome never made any pretext of those armies being for defense. They were clearly armies of conquest. I do not understand the logic in this age of not using the armies for homeland defense. So there is a whole other department for that?

I'm no expert on Rome, but I thought her armies spent more time fighting themselves to lay claim to the throne.

For a lot of other democracies our armies are used for "states of emergency" such as natural disasters or anything else that comes up. We assume we control our armies. In the US there seems to be a strange fear of government power at the same time as you use that government power overseas. Is it under control or not?

Not sure what your talking about.  The US military spends a lot of time and energy assisting with natural and man made disasters in the US.

You have most of the world's defensive power. You don't use it domestically.
You hate the idea of socialism and welfare. But it is good for the military, cant cut the holy military sector.

There have been plenty of discussions here pointing out where the DOD can cut costs without cutting man power.

I think Saudi has to counter Iran. It's their area, they have the money.
Japan has to take the lead in countering China with other small Asian countries.
The EU has to learn to defend Europe.

I don't think you'll get any arguments here that others need to step up and do more for their own protection.

The US simply does not have the funds to try to control what is happening all over the world. Every empire that has tried has fallen. Protect your land and people first. Make transition careers that give army people skills for the real economy. The military is not investment that generates more wealth, it is a cost center.

I'll disagree with your last sentence.  If you allow your trading partners to be slowly taken out by those who hate you, then it will do great harm to our economy.  A strong military that is capable of defending ourselves but helping to defend our friends is an investment.  If you think we have the ability to grow the military as quickly as we did during WWII, then I think you're sadly mistaken. 

Our current military spending isn't going to bankrupt us.  It's the unfunded mandates that are, which are at $128T and climbing.  Military spending is dropping, both in dollars and as a percent of GDP. 

I may be wrong, but I don't think these cuts are either wise or needed. 

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Maybe I misunderstand your laws. It seems to be in the news from time to time that the federal executive branch cannot order troops onto US soil for domestic control. Only a Governor can use the National Guard. Is that wrong?