hamas just made a very very big mistake.
its a rather confused situation at the Gaza border along with massed rocket attacks and at least one naval engagement.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F70lQtmXkAA5mK_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
msnbc currently has 40 Israelis killed and 740 wounded.
even if you cut that number by 2/3rds Israel is going to go ape shit.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710613076498587760
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710592188415975760
not something I expected to wake up to.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F71fRjrXYAAfpTs?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F71AJViWAAEqCnq?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710513723121561688
Remember, absolutely NO Politics.
So far, good effort to summarize the tactical and strategic situation on the ground.
what could possibly be political about Israel?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710648555377918325
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710566629430460569
from March.
"Here is Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, with the terrorist leadership of Hamas, earlier this year."
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F72BmiHWsAABwgm?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710675805540438448
Capt. Obvious says that hamas has truly fucked themselves.
The big question is how Israeli military intelligence missed that. Netanyahu is going to have a big problem trying to explain it.
just to squash this right off the bat.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710725171865166204
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F73K9VqXQAANowE?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
it exists
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710758723663323520
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 07, 2023, 10:15:15 AMfrom March.
"Here is Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, with the terrorist leadership of Hamas, earlier this year."
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F72BmiHWsAABwgm?format=jpg&name=small)
According to my news sources it can only be the ru ss ians who trained and equipped these terrorists with the means to do what they did today with those drones. Iron Dome failed to stop a lot of the incoming rockets. Many many Israelis have been literally kidnapped by terrorist then dragged into Gaza and put on parade. Some have been killed and mutilated and displayed for the arab public to see.
It will be interesting to see if the terrorists from the north (i.e. He bo lah) will join in. Then the war will get much larger.
Israel has been training for this scenario since 2020. I just can't believe that this may be the start of everyone's worst fears.
And what I find particularly despicable about this attack is scenes such as this:
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/18238
I dont think the ability to use drones is a nation state thing. any of us can order pretty much any drone used today. remember JHs drone phase a few years ago?
as for Iron Dome, its not ment to intercept every rocket fired. they system supposedly knows the lay of the land and kills rockets that are going to land on populated areas. the system can also be overwhelmed with numbers.
its still an impressive ability.
Quote from: UN Weapons Inspector on October 07, 2023, 03:04:39 PMThe big question is how Israeli military intelligence missed that.
Israel is the best in the world at collecting electronic intelligence. I'll speculate that Hamas has done the same that the Nazis did for Wacht am Rhein and sent every order by courier, never by radio or teletype, suspecting Enigma was compromised. Israel's human intelligence has failed as well, making me wonder if they have become over reliant on electronic intelligence collection. How Hamas managed to eliminate all leaks is beyond me, except to say it would take very draconian security.
Quote from: Uberhaus on October 07, 2023, 09:01:24 PMQuote from: UN Weapons Inspector on October 07, 2023, 03:04:39 PMThe big question is how Israeli military intelligence missed that.
Israel is the best in the world at collecting electronic intelligence. I'll speculate that Hamas has done the same that the Nazis did for Wacht am Rhein and sent every order by courier, never by radio or teletype, suspecting Enigma was compromised. Israel's human intelligence has failed as well, making me wonder if they have become over reliant on electronic intelligence collection. How Hamas managed to eliminate all leaks is beyond me, except to say it would take very draconian security.
There's been a lot of comparisons to Yom Kippur war of 1973 and how the Israeli intelligence failed there. Some Tet Offensive vibes as well in how they managed to penetrate and attack deep into civilian areas without those numbers having been noticed.
Let us hope this does not escalate to a wider conflict while I doubt Israel will listen too much about the warnings, or "warnings", given to them.
https://twitter.com/RealCynicalFox/status/1710673604751319404
reportedly from the rave that was being held close to the border.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F76wIIPWYAAnf0A?format=jpg&name=small)
fox now reporting over 600 Israelis killed.
I hope this war will not escalate but how can anyone ask to show restraint when innocent women and children are being kidnapped and slaughtered?
It's funny that no one says anything about showing restraint with all the other wars in the world so what makes this case so special that people need to show restraint?
4000 years of religious tension and conflict.
Gonna need to stay off Twitter for a few days. My feed is infested with absolute ghouls who are delighting in Hamas slaughtering unarmed people and raping women.
ya...
I've wondered where my point of overload is and I think I'm about there.
Quote from: al_infierno on October 08, 2023, 11:41:47 AMGonna need to stay off Twitter for a few days. My feed is infested with absolute ghouls who are delighting in Hamas slaughtering unarmed people and raping women.
Try reading Al-Jazeera.
it exists
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711072963720528180
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710965973279211670
my reserve of empathy is exactly zero right now.
blurred for your feelings.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711059887696883873
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F77EMCzXYAEHAN8?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
aloha snackbar motherfuckers
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711088952692883736
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711122856271090040
260 bodies found at the music festival.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 08, 2023, 04:43:45 PM260 bodies found at the music festival.
By one EMS organization. There were other EMS at the site.
the articles Ive read use the word minimum.
In the last few hours I've discovered that I'm apparently racist for supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia while not supporting Hamas invading and massacring Israel. Clearly the reason for this is skin color and not an obvious difference in context.
I've also learned that massacring hundreds of civilians is "justified revolutionary violence" because those civilians are colonizers, you see, because they... attended a music festival.... in land that was stolen from someone else at some point.... or something?
Oh, also apparently it's totally moral and righteous to massacre people because they live on land to which you're indigenous. I can't imagine any unintended consequences to this line of logic....
OK, for real this time. I'm gonna get off Twitter. It's making me more mad than usual.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 08, 2023, 05:01:20 PMthe articles Ive read use the word minimum.
Yes, 260 bodies were seen by just one agency in one area, so a lot more people were probably killed at the
music festival than just 260. Which seems truly horrible.
Quote from: al_infierno on October 08, 2023, 05:03:14 PMIn the last few hours I've discovered that I'm apparently racist for supporting Ukraine's fight against Russia while not supporting Hamas invading and massacring Israel. Clearly the reason for this is skin color and not an obvious difference in context.
I've also learned that massacring hundreds of civilians is "justified revolutionary violence" because those civilians are colonizers, you see, because they... attended a music festival.... in land that was stolen from someone else at some point.... or something?
Oh, also apparently it's totally moral and righteous to massacre people because they live on land to which you're indigenous. I can't imagine any unintended consequences to this line of logic....
OK, for real this time. I'm gonna get off Twitter. It's making me more mad than usual.
I've never spent any time on Twitter, but all of my wives have been major academics (though luckily for my
ideological sanity mostly Jewish)
and the anti-Israel rhetoric around academia can be massive (if baffling). It seems to me that if you can't
see a huge mass of pure atrocities as what they are (and something about this mess of atrocities seems
unusually horrifying) then you have lost all touch with the basics of morality and somehow
substituted a comforting set of ideological responses for a willingness to look at things as they
are, horrible though things may be.
The clear culprit here is Iran and the obvious reason is to abort the promising developments recently of a possible Peace Deal between Israel and the Saudis'. Sept. 20, the Crown Prince was on FOX News and when asked by Bret Bair about peace between the two countries said, "We're getting closer and closer every day". Two days later, Netanyahu said he was delighted by the Prince's statement and agreed peace between the two were very close. This had to give people in Tehran a major case of Acid Reflux. Thus the attack now to unhinge all that. Iran's been bankrolling Hamas and Hezbollah for many years now, no way they can't be involved.
Gaza's not worth the life of the number of Israeli soldiers it would take to clean it out. I'm good with nuking the place and calling it a day. It's time to get, 'Old Testament' on these assholes.
Heads should definitely roll at the IDF and Mossad. How could they be so unprepared on the anniversary of Yom Kippur? The thing that really shocks me is I was there back in 2009 and everywhere we went there were armed soldiers and Israeli civilians armed to the teeth. How could a bunch of fanatics in black pajamas roll-up in pickup trucks and NOT get their asses shot off? Things in Israel must've changed a whole lot since I was there.
I understand there was a demonstration in Times Square today in support of Hamas. :shocked: Going forward there will be more of this and major political figures will join-in to condemn Israel for, 'provoking' this attack. :HideEyes:
reserves heading to the Lebanese border as line units redeploy south.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F78AUloXIAAMt9x?format=jpg&name=large)
it took years but finally a post from Slash I agree with.
thankfully Israel doesn't give a fuck about international opinion and Gaza is going to get flattened.
the shit of it is is that over the last few years I've been pretty hyper critical of what the Israeli governments doing. not a fan of Bibi at all. this will just strengthen his position and thats not a good thing. Israel, like America, are supposed to be the example.
:huh:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710998750368530583
24 Merk's are going to fuck something up.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 08, 2023, 10:58:14 PMThe clear culprit here is Iran and the obvious reason is to abort the promising developments recently of a possible Peace Deal between Israel and the Saudis'. Sept. 20, the Crown Prince was on FOX News and when asked by Bret Bair about peace between the two countries said, "We're getting closer and closer every day". Two days later, Netanyahu said he was delighted by the Prince's statement and agreed peace between the two were very close. This had to give people in Tehran a major case of Acid Reflux. Thus the attack now to unhinge all that. Iran's been bankrolling Hamas and Hezbollah for many years now, no way they can't be involved.
Gaza's not worth the life of the number of Israeli soldiers it would take to clean it out. I'm good with nuking the place and calling it a day. It's time to get, 'Old Testament' on these assholes.
Heads should definitely roll at the IDF and Mossad. How could they be so unprepared on the anniversary of Yom Kippur? The thing that really shocks me is I was there back in 2009 and everywhere we went there were armed soldiers and Israeli civilians armed to the teeth. How could a bunch of fanatics in black pajamas roll-up in pickup trucks and NOT get their asses shot off? Things in Israel must've changed a whole lot since I was there.
I understand there was a demonstration in Times Square today in support of Hamas. :shocked: Going forward there will be more of this and major political figures will join-in to condemn Israel for, 'provoking' this attack. :HideEyes:
Yes, that was a very interesting series of interviews by Bret Baier. I do expect the Israelis will attempt to re-occupy the Gaza-Strip. This will probably take months and the Israelis will be labeled the bad guys. They have declared war and will do what needs to be done.
I wonder if Hezbollah will be ordered by Iran to open a northern front against Israel. I also wonder if Israel will go after Iran in an overt way at some point. Maybe hit the facilities being used to develop a nuke?
I was surprised to see many of the terrible, sickening videos of the Hamas attacks where Israelis did not have weapons. I remember news footage from back in the day when it was normal to see Israelis in civilian clothes walking around and standing at bus stops with Uzis etc. It seemed as if every third or fourth Israeli was armed. The footage would also show groups of uniformed soldiers with weapons standing on corners etc.
In many of the videos this week there are Israelis in civilian clothes running, hiding, etc. but no weapons. Very few of them in the air raid shelters/safe rooms seem to have weapons. Then Hamas would come and try to force their way in and if they couldn't get in the safe room burn the building. There were a few videos where the soldiers didn't even have weapons. In at least one video there was a group of soldiers hiding in the barracks latrine with no weapons. Maybe the weapons were safely locked in the armory while they were off duty and the guy with the key was already shot? Just crazy sickening to watch. I bet/hope they are sleeping with Uzis and or Glocks on the nightstand and assault rifles under the bed tonight.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711265088982720938
...the moment friendly soldiers use your car as cover and concealment... while you still in the car :shocked: (second video)
and the crackles of incomming are audible at about 0:20-022, and 0:41
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710943017891148285
we had to witness kind of an Israelian Pearl Harbor on Saturday morn :embarrassed:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1710662404466733262
problem is not only the Hamas itself , take a look at the bystanders in Gaza
the people who support them
this is (or was) German Shani Louk attending the music festval
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711255021088878863
Quote from: Crossroads on October 08, 2023, 01:46:14 AMThere's been a lot of comparisons to Yom Kippur war of 1973 and how the Israeli intelligence failed there. Some Tet Offensive vibes as well in how they managed to penetrate and attack deep into civilian areas without those numbers having been noticed.
I think this is something different from the Yom Kippur intelligence failures where the Israeli military and political leadership had advance warning of a pending attack and failed to act, believing themselves invincible. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/enigma-the-anatomy-of-israels-intelligence-failure-almost-45-years-ago/
QuoteExactly what the king [Hussein of Jordan]told Golda is still controversial. The earliest accounts of the meeting in Israeli newspapers—in 1993, 20 years after the meeting—claimed the king brought an explicit warning that Syria and Egypt were about to attack Israel, a warning that the prime minister failed to heed, leading to the surprise attack on Israel on October 6, 1973. The former head of the DMI, General Eli Zeira, claimed in 1993 when the story broke about the king's trip that the prime minister had received a warning of war from "a very senior Arab personality," which the papers identified as King Hussein.
The military ended up being scapegoated. https://jstribune.com/oren-a-revisionist-view-of-the-intelligence-failure-of-the-yom-kippur-war/
I suspect this recent failure is due to Hamas, who are barbaric, using a complete electronics blackout on the operation while broadcasting "routine" traffic. Perhaps Israel had human intelligence but could not support it with collection of electronic transmission of planning, operational orders, logistic reports, etc.
The conduct of Hamas is evil and Israel has every right to defend itself.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7-YftkXUAA_vZr?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Well Star, we may come to see how closely Iran and Russia are cooperating. My private, personal belief is that the continuing assault on democracy is an attempt to bankrupt or at least make dysfunctional the West, especially the US. This obviously being patterned on the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Unfortunately Israel's strict gun control laws contributed to this weekends invasion and slaughter. Their citizens were mostly unarmed. Crazy considering the neighbors they have. :idiot2: Even more crazy that they are just "loosening" the laws.
https://thereload.com/israeli-loosens-gun-carry-rules-after-unprecedented-terror-attack/
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 09, 2023, 08:07:17 AM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7-YftkXUAA_vZr?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711083530187346284
no Russian troll farm so, these are right under your nose on your streets
They cheer as the speaker mentions the hang-gliding terrorists who attacked a music festival & cheer even more about the 5000 Hamas rockets where is a Bear Jew when you neeed him :Dreamer:
its all of it Mike.
Quote from: steve58 on October 09, 2023, 08:48:15 AMUnfortunately Israel's strict gun control laws contributed to this weekends invasion and slaughter. Their citizens were mostly unarmed. Crazy considering the neighbors they have. :idiot2: Even more crazy that they are just "loosening" the laws.
https://thereload.com/israeli-loosens-gun-carry-rules-after-unprecedented-terror-attack/
Wow. I was wondering, while I watched all those horrific videos, why the Israeli citizens seldom seemed to have guns. I was under the false belief that most Israeli households had guns. Instead they were pulled out of their own beds, in their own homes, often herded into one room with their children, abused and killed or kidnapped. Sickening, shit.
After this war is over, when the Israelis are doing the AAR / investigations on said war this gun issue should maybe be discussed.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 09, 2023, 08:07:17 AM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7-YftkXUAA_vZr?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/LauraHuu/status/1711392260636483624
Note to check in with the ISW...
An intelligence analysis I saw on Fox indicated:
1.) it's pretty normal for Hamas to run training exercises before and on Yom Kippur, probably for obvious historical reasons. The exercises were very well identified by Israeli intelligence, along with actionable potential (i.e. what Hamas could throw at Israel in human assets if they wanted to). I don't recall hearing about intelligence on the rocket threat being so large, but sadly it isn't unusual for much-smaller-but-still-large rocket attacks to be launched from Gaza. All they have to do is save up a tithe for a few years while doing normal harassment ops, and ta-da, rocket swarm.
2.) The intentions side of Israeli intelligence evaluated chances for attack-from-training this year, since surprise attacks from putative training exercises aren't totally rare in history (as we all will remember from famous examples), but decided the chances were low to non-existent because Hamas would hurt their recent economic advancement. This was obviously a failure in what philosophers would call a variety of 'the intentional fallacy': what makes sense for Israel and other stable nations who aren't a death-cult masquerading as a government, do not necessarily apply to what such a death-cult would consider reasonable. It's also possible that Hamas played with Israeli expectations of peaceful growth by entering into a slight amount of economic stability, e.g. work-passes being granted out of Gaza into Israel, not only for scouting and preparation purposes, but to spoof Israeli expectations based on their different values.
3.) Attack squads evidently were trained, supplied, and activated, based on ISIL/ISIS experience (possibly even with surviving veterans): absolutely isolated small-cell groups of long-time friends and relatives who trust each other not to be traitors, and only one contact up-command to small-scale managers for the cells. This doesn't allow for complex plans and orders, but they didn't need it, and thus eliminated most tech-based comms while minimizing non-tech comms.
One consequence is that the attacks succeeded so well the cell groups had no real ideas what to do after surviving their own attacks, except to randomly whatever they felt like. Great for spreading destructive chaos, not so great for doing anything more tactically useful than that.
I also heard last night in passing that the first hostage groups are being rescued by Israeli spec-ops, and that American spec-ops are on the way to help soften the mission load by taking responsibility for rescuing American citizens.
Btw, some of my church members were vacationing at En Gedi on the Dead Sea when the attacks went off. And somehow got around, presumably not through, the West Bank areas to Galilee, to be baptized (for no good theological reasons :doh: ) in the Jordan or lake up there, then back again! No obvious danger to them yet, but I don't know that they know enough to be really worried. Their hotel is less than 50 miles east of the Gaza action, certainly close enough to hear rockets striking at Jerusalem this morning. They're also less than five miles from the West Bank zone, and the PLA there has vowed to help fight along with Hamas until the occupiers are kicked out etc. (I haven't heard of any PLA action yet though.) Latest word is that my church's group is trying to cross into Jordan to get a flight out. Probably the best of bad options, under the circumstances.
Quote from: Crossroads on October 09, 2023, 09:52:55 AMhttps://twitter.com/LauraHuu/status/1711392260636483624
That will be one ugly narrative that can go to hell.
So Halminen is a prominent Finnish journalist who defied the Finnish government. Clearly though, you feel she is trustworthy in that you have posted her comments, Crossroads.
Re Iran's intentions for prodding Hamas to go now (and maybe joined by other groups nearby): I don't know that this would necessarily scotch the Saudi peace deals. The actual king was always against the deals, but he isn't running the country right now; the prince (interviewed by Baer) is. He has some internal political calculus to juggle, but he's unlikely to snuggle up to Iran now, and peace with Israel is the best way for him (currently) to keep his side of power around the Persian Gulf. Whether that gets him and his allies ganked by other Saudis is something he'll have to worry about and try to parry.
My own suspicion is this: we recently learned that Iran has enriched Uranium (or Plutonium, I forget which, and not where I can check atm) over the threshold of weapons grade. There is less than no reason to do this for local energy generation purposes, and they've been pretty consistent about what they plan to do with that material if they ever get it to weapon grade.
Intelligence estimates indicate that Iran can now produce a nuclear weapon and mount it on a missile capable of reaching Israel, within 12 days of whenever they decide to go. Or deliver it by some other method, down to a set of backpack-sized weapons.
Israel of course has also been VERY consistent for years, that if Iran ever goes over a threshold toward producing such a weapon, they're gonna just send over an air force and remove that capability with extreme prejudice. That threshold has probably been crossed. (There may be some other technical constraints that I don't know about which haven't triggered an Israeli attack yet, but the situation has to be close.)
Iran might be well-advised to throw their sponsored local doom-pets at Israel as a major military distraction, if Iran intends to go for the nuclear attack prep at relatively the least risk of being interdicted by the Israeli Air Force (plus spec-op support).
Jason, I hope your church members are safe.
I strongly doubt that Hamas, who I believe are Shia and backed by Iran, have Daesh training or experience, considering the hatred they have for Shia Muslims, unless Fox is meaning that they were modelled on them. Points one and two are very interesting though.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711421376408453190
Quote from: Uberhaus on October 09, 2023, 12:55:48 PMJason, I hope your church members are safe.
I strongly doubt that Hamas, who I believe are Shia and backed by Iran, have Daesh training or experience, considering the hatred they have for Shia Muslims, unless Fox is meaning that they were modelled on them. Points one and two are very interesting though.
Hamas is Sunni. They just work with Iran, in more of a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type relationship. Hamas also gets around 100 million USD from Iran. They had a bit of a falling out over Syria a few years back, but generally speaking, they have worked together for decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#:~:text='Islamic%20Resistance%20Movement')%20is,political%20force%22%20within%20Palestinian%20politics.&text=State%20allies%3A,Afghanistan%20(Taliban)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8A8mFhXIAA_FUG?format=jpg&name=medium)
Praying for your church members, Jason, and also for the peace of Jerusalem and the salvation of Israel.
Quote from: Tripoli on October 09, 2023, 01:25:54 PMHamas is Sunni. They just work with Iran, in more of a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type relationship. Hamas also gets around 100 million USD from Iran. They had a bit of a falling out over Syria a few years back, but generally speaking, they have worked together for decades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#:~:text='Islamic%20Resistance%20Movement')%20is,political%20force%22%20within%20Palestinian%20politics.&text=State%20allies%3A,Afghanistan%20(Taliban)
I stand corrected, sorry Jason. PM Netenyahu also jusy stated that Hamas is Daesh. If they are being incorporated into Hamas that is a very ugly situation.
I wonder if DetCord is gonna fly over with his operator buddies and kick some Arab ass.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/09/they-are-in-my-house-kibbutz-survivors-tell-of-hamas-attack
Until the late 1980s, older members of Nahal Oz used to regularly drive a few miles west, to shop in Gaza City's markets, eat the enclave's famous seafood, or go for a walk on the Mediterranean coastline. Many still have friends in Gaza. Despite the Israeli blockade imposed in 2007, after the militant group Hamas seized control of the area, they kept in touch with calls and WhatsApp messages.
all emotions aside, it is just people living next to each other.
Calm down would be the best response, as difficult it is. And respect towards all the victims.
Which i mean stop posting graphic pictures
respectfully, no.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711497534860902412
How anyone could cheer what Hamas has done is beyond my understanding - absolutely revolting and moronic.
And as Star posted on the first page of this thread, Hamas has started their own destruction.
I too was not crazy about the Israeli government's turn over the last few years but screw that now.
Jason as others have posted I hope your church members are ok. A lot of Americans got caught up in this.
My older daughter will be 18 next year and has started talking about her Birthright trip to Israel...I cannot imagine what we would be doing right now if she got caught up in this while on Birthright.
https://www.birthrightisrael.com/
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2023, 08:33:23 PMHow anyone could cheer what Hamas has done is beyond my understanding - absolutely revolting and moronic.
I've spent a good deal of time trying to understand what goes into this sentiment. Without going too much into political stuff, this is how I see it.
It's basically a mixture of freedom-fighter romanticization (e.g. "they're revolutionaries fighting against an establishment who oppresses them, they're in the right no matter what methods they use!") and this extremely weird, maladjusted view that "decolonization" means if you are native to a land, you have carte blanche to retake that land by any means possible.
Most baffling and infuriating are white Americans who claim that if Native American commandos wanted to kill them, they would gladly support that cause and hand themselves over to a deserving death. I guarantee you there's no way in hell these people actually mean what they're saying - human nature would have them running for the hills with all their belongings on the back if such an event actually happened - and they just don't want to admit they're massive hypocrites.
What is truly unbelievable to me is the number of openly gay and transgender people who have expressed support for Hamas's attacks, seemingly unaware that Hamas is a literal Islamic extremist group who would gladly stone and behead them given the chance.
Oh, there's also a pretty healthy dose of antisemitism.
^Antisemitism for sure, and good old-fashioned ignorance.
The video of Times Square above reminds of those Black Israelite lunatics I would see regularly when I worked in Manhattan.
I'm sure they are beyond excited now as well.
Hamas also wants full scale action against Gaza. That's their intent.
They want to goad Israel into the most extreme action possible because it always has jumpstarted their recruitment cycle.
Hamas absolutely wants and needs massive, heavy handed military action in Gaza. Every day there's peace and no dead Palestinians is a defeat for them.
In these events Israel has been very reliable to respond and engage in heavy military action that includes a lot of collateral damage. That is what feeds Hamas' ranks.
Iran understands this as well which is why they're pressing.
Iran's main goal is for Israel to devastate and level Gaza to such an extent that Jordan and Egypt and Saudi Arabia fall away from détente. The idea of peace has come too close to fruition for them.
^I get that.
What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2023, 09:17:21 PM^I get that.
What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?
"Settlers are combatants" is the so-called "anticolonial" justification I see widely on these big Twitter accounts. Yes, if you live in Israel, these ghouls think you're fair game. And that's not even mentioning the tourists and visitors who just happened to be present.
Pretty plainly advocating for genocide.
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2023, 09:17:21 PM^I get that.
What I don't get is the blind support for such reprehensible, disgusting actions. Killing children and old people? Cheering for that?
Can't help you there.
I would remind them of Omar Mukhtar who fought the Italians in Lybia.
A true moment was immortalized in film.
Mukhtar ambushed an Italian military column and his fighters effectively slaughtered most of the defenders, but a handful of survivors were left.
Mukhtar took the Italian flag from one of the vehicles and ordered his men to not harm the prisoners. He gave them safe passage back to their men and gave them their flag and said "Tell your leaders this doesn't belong here".
Mukhtar's men protested and wanted to kill the prisoners. One argued "They kill our civilians, they murder our prisoners".
Mukhtar responded "They are not our teachers".
Update on church group: passports have been put on hold, so they cannot legally leave the nation outside of control of Israel (which in context is understandable). Plan to go south into Egypt and make way to Cairo, scrapped. Plan to cross the river into Jordan to get to an airport, also scrapped.
No harm yet. Holding at the hotel.
^How many of them are there?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8C6Z-wW4AAs1z0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Good, even-handed video with a lot of detailed background.
We also have friends in a church group that just returned from Israel on Friday. Very lucky people. I wonder which Iowa Class BB we can get out of mothball or museums quickest and lend to Israel for some 16 inch Urban Renewal efforts over there? That would even be worth watching MSNBC to see.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 09, 2023, 10:50:54 PMI wonder which Iowa Class BB we can get out of mothball or museums quickest and lend to Israel for some 16 inch Urban Renewal efforts over there? That would even be worth watching MSNBC to see.
How many of the 42% of Palestinians in Gaza that hate and refuse to support Hamas do you want to die for your urban renewal with 16 inch guns or nuclear weapons?
You wanted nukes by your own statement. In Hiroshima women and children went to lakes and pools to cool their injuries and when they wiped their arms their skin came off revealing their muscles.
How much of that will delight you of those that that just wanted to not be in the line of the fire?
Heck, lets use VX. Let's establish processing centers and just employ some Zyklon B.
"They are not our teachers".
^everyone relax and keep the discussion focused on the tactical and strategic discussion.
You know, I feel slash's rage. It's hard not to go kickass on this. SirAndrew is right though, scorched earth in gaza will just make more Hamas recruits. Seeing the Saudi deal through could be the real fuck you to Iran.
scorched earth is not the solution, but Hamas and all who had beeen or are willing to support them in Gaza has to be rooted out.
Its not an Israeli thing alone.
Ít is a small 911 (especially that music festival) with victims from a lot of nations Americans , French, Thai , Germans, ...
It doesn't matter how precise and careful as best as they could the IFD neutralizes valid targets.
The Palestine Pallywood Production will flood the Media with dead baby body videos, even faked, and older ones from other conflicts anyway and cry genozid
and that has already strated ...check X formaly known as Twitter.
From a wargamers point of view:
I would go in the South and occupy a maybe 5 click stretch along the Egyptian border. This will cut off the underground railroad into Egypt, and give some access to the tunnel network. On the surface I would declare a humanitarian corridor where elderly, women and children can walk into Egypt at the Rafah Crossing Point and then get imideatly shuttled to the West Bank, where the UN HCR can set up a temporary shelter. Egypt doesnt want a Palestine refugee camp on its teritory, for good reasons.
Then I would slowly roll up the Gaza strip from the North to South, so people willing to flee have a save escape route.
lets call it 107 ten-seven referring to 911 and respond accordingly
in the West people celebrating 107 (or 911) on the street should be prosecuted for hate-crime with the already existing laws
Aside from the obvious stupidity of anyone celebrating this, and there are plenty of useful idiots (to the Hamas) around the world, antisemitism as an old trope regarding this conflict is not helpful. It is damaging in the way, as blinding us to the possible solutions. If I dare to say, one could be more humane treatment of Palestinians.
In WWII when the Allies bombed cities, nobody concerned themselves with counting how many innocent civilians who weren't Nazis might get killed. The goal was to end the war as quickly as possible by attacking the enemy where it hurt the most and caused the most damage. Strategically, why shouldn't Israel have the same right? Historically, Israel has shown tremendous restraint and humanity by employing all means to avoid unnecessary collateral damage and loss, even going so far to warn those in an area in advance of an attack, giving information on both timing and method. No other civilized state does this with such regularity, as far as I know.
The truth is, an unfair double standard is imposed upon Israel for one reason and one reason alone, the ancient and ever-present hatred of Jews. I see no other legitimate basis for this, or for western sympathy and support for Hamas. It is reprehensible. This does not make apology for Israel's sometimes draconian rules for Palestinians in Gaza, but neither does it excuse the butcher of innocent women and children or justify sympathy for terrorists. A line must be drawn against barbarity in favor of democratic, civilized nations, of which Israel is one. I pray for the safety of its people, its soldiers and defenders and for a fast end to this terrible war that results in the destruction of Israel's enemies.
I think this thread should be closed. In this particular crisis the strategic/tactical situation and politics are inextricable. I've read far too many opinions in other areas of the internet where anti-Semitism and Islamophobia have been smeared over the necessary nuance.
I don't know the exact number of times the UN has condemned Israel for one thing or another but that amount far exceeds the condemnation that has been given to other countries. In fact if one were to combine the number of times all the countries that have been condemned it would not even come close to the number of times the UN has condemned Israel.
Something about that totally doesn't make sense. Is it racism against Jews? Or is the saying "we battle not against flesh and blood but against dark spirits in high places"? I believe this hatred towards Israel and the Jews is demonic in nature.
Quote from: MikeGER on October 10, 2023, 03:30:26 AMscorched earth is not the solution, but Hamas and all who had beeen or are willing to support them in Gaza has to be rooted out.
...
Ít is a small 911 (especially that music festival) with victims from a lot of nations Americans , French, Thai , Germans, ...
As a percentage of population, it is almost ten times bigger than 9/11. The US lost approximately .001% of it's population on 9/11 (3000 dead/300 million population). Israel lost approximately .00961% of its population on Saturday. (900 dead/9.364 million population).
Speaking of tactics:
Is there information available about the security perimeter aroud Gaza and why it didn't stop the breakout?
I know there is quite a bit if air travel involved, but it looks like a lot of pickup trucks and vans with gunmen made it through.
I would completely agree with Sir Andrew IF the Hamas fighters had acted like an actual State Military Force and took prisoners humanely and treated them with some degree of compassion. These animals did neither and so deserve NO level of understanding, consideration, and or mercy. Trying to avoid civilian casualties won't work because Hamas hides amongst the people, placing their arsenals and HQ's next door to hospitals and orphanages, schools and nurseries--civilians deaths are inevitable. The innocent persons who live there have, since Hamas stole Gaza from The Palestinian Authority, known they intended to provoke war between themselves and Israel, know what Hamas stands for, and how they intend to accomplish it. And yet they have CHOOSEN to remain there. I don't believe their being held there at gunpoint, they could've left at any time.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities. Why shouldn't Israel fire tens of thousands indiscriminately back into Gaza at them? But, no, we expect them to act with restraint, maybe fly a drone around until they see a couple of Hamas on a motorcycle with a big sign saying, "Here we are. Please drone us". War is Hell. They want it, so lets show them what it looks like.
Quote from: Redwolf on October 10, 2023, 10:47:24 AMSpeaking of tactics:
Is there information available about the security perimeter aroud Gaza and why it didn't stop the breakout?
I know there is quite a bit if air travel involved, but it looks like a lot of pickup trucks and vans with gunmen made it through.
I thought I read that Hamas used drones to first disable monitoring towers. Then they blew holes in the fence, followed by bulldozers to make even bigger openings.
...a followup note on my previous post about gun ownership in Israel.
QuoteIsraeli gun ownership is low at about 2% of the population. It compares to about 30% of the population owning a gun in the US.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-65110881
Good podcast with Bruce Hoffman on WotR from yesterday. He provides a 10,000 foot "quick look" of the conflict: https://warontherocks.com/2023/10/the-meaning-of-the-attack-on-israel/
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 10, 2023, 11:22:00 AMI would completely agree with Sir Andrew IF the Hamas fighters had acted like an actual State Military Force and took prisoners humanely and treated them with some degree of compassion. These animals did neither and so deserve NO level of understanding, consideration, and or mercy. Trying to avoid civilian casualties won't work because Hamas hides amongst the people, placing their arsenals and HQ's next door to hospitals and orphanages, schools and nurseries--civilians deaths are inevitable. The innocent persons who live there have, since Hamas stole Gaza from The Palestinian Authority, known they intended to provoke war between themselves and Israel, know what Hamas stands for, and how they intend to accomplish it. And yet they have CHOOSEN to remain there. I don't believe their being held there at gunpoint, they could've left at any time.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities. Why shouldn't Israel fire tens of thousands indiscriminately back into Gaza at them? But, no, we expect them to act with restraint, maybe fly a drone around until they see a couple of Hamas on a motorcycle with a big sign saying, "Here we are. Please drone us". War is Hell. They want it, so lets show them what it looks like.
Bolded part is complicated. Gaza has been under blockade ever since Hamas came to power, and I understand it's quite difficulf for Palestinians to leave.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 10, 2023, 11:22:00 AMI would completely agree with Sir Andrew IF the Hamas fighters had acted like an actual State Military Force and took prisoners humanely and treated them with some degree of compassion. These animals did neither and so deserve NO level of understanding, consideration, and or mercy. Trying to avoid civilian casualties won't work because Hamas hides amongst the people, placing their arsenals and HQ's next door to hospitals and orphanages, schools and nurseries--civilians deaths are inevitable. The innocent persons who live there have, since Hamas stole Gaza from The Palestinian Authority, known they intended to provoke war between themselves and Israel, know what Hamas stands for, and how they intend to accomplish it. And yet they have CHOOSEN to remain there. I don't believe their being held there at gunpoint, they could've left at any time.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities. Why shouldn't Israel fire tens of thousands indiscriminately back into Gaza at them? But, no, we expect them to act with restraint, maybe fly a drone around until they see a couple of Hamas on a motorcycle with a big sign saying, "Here we are. Please drone us". War is Hell. They want it, so lets show them what it looks like.
If I came off as harsh it was partly the amount of material I'm reading that is openly calling for a Palestinian genocide.
Let me be clear here, I support Israel and they've been backed into a corner where they have to go to a full scale war. And it will be hell. However 100% Israel needs to fight the war according to the rules of war, and that excludes terror bombings, WMD's and open genocide.
Because no, as has been pointed out Palestinians in Gaza do not have the ability to leave. No, all Palestinians do not support Hamas. Hamas does not govern Gaza, the PNA does and many Palestinians support it and normalization.
And importantly, a mass genocide will radically alter the state of the mideast and increase radicalization and put pressure on more moderate states like Egypt and Jordan to end their peace agreements.
I feel ferociously angry about the attack too. It's barbaric, inhumane, it violates every moral position I hold and deeply feel for those that lost people.
So, fight the war, fight it with the goal of destroying Hamas and limiting civilian casualties. Do what must be done to win and no more. Israel will still be called a monster for it, but it's the only path to where a lasting peace can come after.
Anyway, that's what I'll say on it as Jarhead wants us to play nice. Never forget the respect I have for those here and their opinions. I wouldn't stick around with you drunken reprobates if I didn't.
Amen
I was about to post but D and Al beat me to it...Palestinians can't just up and leave Gaza.
And not to defend the Palestinians at all, but more times than not, they are looked at as the lowest of the low by the rest of the Arab and Muslim world as well.
Just above Jews.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 10, 2023, 12:59:57 PMQuote from: Sir Slash on October 10, 2023, 11:22:00 AMI would completely agree with Sir Andrew IF the Hamas fighters had acted like an actual State Military Force and took prisoners humanely and treated them with some degree of compassion. These animals did neither and so deserve NO level of understanding, consideration, and or mercy. Trying to avoid civilian casualties won't work because Hamas hides amongst the people, placing their arsenals and HQ's next door to hospitals and orphanages, schools and nurseries--civilians deaths are inevitable. The innocent persons who live there have, since Hamas stole Gaza from The Palestinian Authority, known they intended to provoke war between themselves and Israel, know what Hamas stands for, and how they intend to accomplish it. And yet they have CHOOSEN to remain there. I don't believe their being held there at gunpoint, they could've left at any time.
Hamas fires thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israeli cities. Why shouldn't Israel fire tens of thousands indiscriminately back into Gaza at them? But, no, we expect them to act with restraint, maybe fly a drone around until they see a couple of Hamas on a motorcycle with a big sign saying, "Here we are. Please drone us". War is Hell. They want it, so lets show them what it looks like.
If I came off as harsh it was partly the amount of material I'm reading that is openly calling for a Palestinian genocide.
Let me be clear here, I support Israel and they've been backed into a corner where they have to go to a full scale war. And it will be hell. However 100% Israel needs to fight the war according to the rules of war, and that excludes terror bombings, WMD's and open genocide.
Because no, as has been pointed out Palestinians in Gaza do not have the ability to leave. No, all Palestinians do not support Hamas. Hamas does not govern Gaza, the PNA does and many Palestinians support it and normalization.
And importantly, a mass genocide will radically alter the state of the mideast and increase radicalization and put pressure on more moderate states like Egypt and Jordan to end their peace agreements.
I feel ferociously angry about the attack too. It's barbaric, inhumane, it violates every moral position I hold and deeply feel for those that lost people.
So, fight the war, fight it with the goal of destroying Hamas and limiting civilian casualties. Do what must be done to win and no more. Israel will still be called a monster for it, but it's the only path to where a lasting peace can come after.
Anyway, that's what I'll say on it as Jarhead wants us to play nice. Never forget the respect I have for those here and their opinions. I wouldn't stick around with you drunken reprobates if I didn't.
Wait, hasn't Hamas been the de facto governing body of Gaza since 2007?
As a note, Israel has strenuously warned civilians in the Gaza strip to get out while they can -- I don't know whether preparations have been made to help that, or how far.
Hamas has strenuously warned civilians in the Gaza strip to ignore Israel and stay in place for the glory of Allah or something. (I haven't specifically heard why they're saying so but I can make guesses from past experience.)
On a related but somewhat different topic: what's the current sitrep for Lebanon and Syria, and the PLA in the West Bank? I hadn't heard of any action from them last night at bedtime and I've been busy since then.
I _think_ I heard that Jordan condemned the action by Hamas, but I may have misheard that. (That might be limited to condemning attacks upon Jerusalem itself, of course.)
Quote from: steve58 on October 10, 2023, 02:14:42 PMWait, hasn't Hamas been the de facto governing body of Gaza since 2007?
De facto but unrecognized.
A significant number of Palestinians in Gaza still support Abbas and the PNA, but they are a minority. Estimates are around 40%
Does Syria at this point have any strength to do anything outside its borders?
Quote from: Gusington on October 10, 2023, 02:31:25 PMDoes Syria at this point have any strength to do anything outside its borders?
No. The only good thing the Civil War did there was to remove them as a factor.
^Good.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 10, 2023, 02:21:01 PMAs a note, Israel has strenuously warned civilians in the Gaza strip to get out while they can -- I don't know whether preparations have been made to help that, or how far.
No, they haven't. It was reported that way in western media but wasn't entirely correct.
They were told to evacuate designated areas such as El-Mekusi, Beit Hanoun, Shuja'iyya, El-Bireyc, El-Maghazi, Big Abasan, Small Abasan and Rafah.
There isn't any real way for a mass exodus from Gaza. It's been under blockade for 17 by air and by sea and has been called "The worlds largest open air prison."
No one can leave the strip without specific permission and monitoring by Israeli authorities.
Egypt also maintains a strict military blockade with no permitted passage on their side of the border.
I cannot buy the idea Arabs can't leave Gaza. I believe thousand crossed over to Israel everyday to work in Israel. The Israeli blockade was to prevent weapons and explosives from getting into Gaza and only then has been clearly NOT successful. The idea you can't get out since Hamas took over in 2007 is just silly. Egypt allowed thousands out last time this happened for humanitarian reasons and Israel has always allowed Arabs to live and emigrate to and from the nation as long as they are not known members of a terrorist group or threat to the state. They live in Gaza because they want to live there.
Great article Trip! 2% Gun ownership in Israel? Incredible. :shocked:
^Gaza's Arab and Muslim neighbors do not look kindly upon the Palestinians themselves.
That work program was a big reason (reportedly) why Israeli intelligence thought Hamas would just do more 'training' this year: launching an actual attack would be economic suicide at the very least.
One could of course still call it the world's largest prison, with work furloughs -- not sure about the details there. :undecided: With the meanest gang in charge of the prisoners and keeping them from getting much positive done.
Thanks for the specific 'safe zone' designations, SirAndrew. :notworthy: All I saw was the brief post from (apparently?) Netanyahu twice emphasizing get out before you get hurt.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 10, 2023, 02:54:11 PMI cannot buy the idea Arabs can't leave Gaza. I believe thousand crossed over to Israel everyday to work in Israel.
They mostly come from the West Bank.
I am well aware. Things got so bad there the Israelis had to build a wall to keep Palestinians form coming over and killing people. Terrorists take advantage of people trying to legit work and support their families by killing Israelis causing them to not let near so many come over afterwards. Which in turn causes more poverty in the West Bank and makes it easier to recruit more terrorists.
We knew two brothers who lived in the West Bank and refused to join Islamic Jihad. They were both targeted for assassination by them for being traitors. Fortunately with the help of some Christians they were friendly with, they were able to get out of the country to Germany and safety. The Palestinian Authority would do nothing to help them. 'Tis a sad state when the Holy Land is so Unholy.
I fear that Israel is just not going to give a fuck about global opinion on this one. as others have said, they've been sanctioned, blamed and gotten all kinds of flak. this is the one where the thinking is that if we're gonna get the blame anyway just do what they think needs be done.
Caring about global opinion got them into this. Can't say I blame them for trashing global opinion and setting it on fire.
Ben Shapiro's "I am a Jew" speech was rather good, the other day. The whole show was very much about holding up the evil and pointing to it, but the prologue and epilogue was posted later.
Not much politicizing, if I recall correctly; if so I'll take it down.
More flexible and hopefully precise than a battleship:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-us-navy-carrier-strike-group-is-now-in-place-to-stop-anyone-from-making-the-israel-hamas-war-any-worse-than-it-already-is/ar-AA1i0EWa?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=ce62d7c890844b05ab18e3ff3247348a&ei=48
Hamas Flying Circus Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines :ThumbsUp:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712096863766102376
his flight to Israel was full of tension :azn:
Electrifying video.
Quote from: Gusington on October 09, 2023, 09:51:45 PM^How many of them are there?
Sorry for the delay, I had to hold up for op-sec reasons, you know how it is.
There were 10 people in the group, at least 5 church members (maybe 6) and some of their family from other churches. Our chief deacon and his wife; our pastor's wife (whose Dad, from another church, was helping guide the group); and another couple.
I would have had to hold up telling how they eventually got out -- I think it was through Jordan, but the girl who posted that took it off for security reasons, and I haven't been able to confirm whether Mom just imagined reading that (as a probable guess) or not.
They'll be in Dallas this afternoon, Nashville tonight (couldn't get a direct flight in from wherever they were staging into the states), and back home after mid-night. They're out of potential targeting in whatever Muslim nation(s) they escaped through.
Thanks for all prayers and well-wishes!
^Ah so they're out...nice.
so the point was made that there is no way hamas practiced that para gliding op in Gaza as it would have been noticed. so where was it practiced and how did the men and material get back into Gaza?
It's great your people are out Jason. :ThumbsUp:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 11, 2023, 12:22:06 PMso the point was made that there is no way hamas practiced that para gliding op in Gaza as it would have been noticed. so where was it practiced and how did the men and material get back into Gaza?
I don't think the guy in video practiced at all.
The US is sending substantial assets to the region. I find this to be pretty unusual. I'm not the tinfoil hat wearing type, but I have a growing suspicion that this attack is going to be used as a pretext for a wider war against Iran. Certain elements have been itching for such an opportunity for quite some time.
I hope the war remains regional and that it ends quickly, but nothing would surprise me anymore. In fact, I wouldn't even be totally shocked if there was intelligence that this attack was coming, but that it was purposely ignored. No evidence of this, of course, but just nagging intuition I suppose.
I am dubious of Egypt and Congressman McCaul's claims that Israel was warned as these claims aren't being substantiated. Netanyahu can be cynical, but I don't believe for an instant that he would sacrifice so much even for the destruction of Iran. For the potential loss of some aircraft and aircrew he could easily wreck Iran's nuclear program and then continue to ignore the usual international outrage.
However, Iran's leadership is facing a serious internal threat from protests that have continued for a year and that they cannot suppress. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-66834156 Now a jailed woman's activist has won the Nobel Peace Prize. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67026216 This leadership will definitely believe an external attack would be of benefit to their popular support. There is also a chance to derail the normalization of Saudi-Israeli relations https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231011-saudi-public-debate-on-ties-with-israel-jolted-by-war A Saudi-Israeli normalization would be a great barrier to Iranian ambitions in the region.
Hopefully, cynicism isn't at the tller, but if cynics are steering, I think they're autocratic.
I think Israel would be within it's rights to retaliate directly against Iran for this attack. I don't think they will, openly at least, but perhaps a lot more Iranian Nuclear Scientists might suddenly become involved in traffic accidents in the weeks ahead.
Quote from: Uberhaus on October 11, 2023, 09:06:22 PMI am dubious of Egypt and Congressman McCaul's claims that Israel was warned as these claims aren't being substantiated. Netanyahu can be cynical, but I don't believe for an instant that he would sacrifice so much even for the destruction of Iran. For the potential loss of some aircraft and aircrew he could easily wreck Iran's nuclear program and then continue to ignore the usual international outrage.
However, Iran's leadership is facing a serious internal threat from protests that have continued for a year and that they cannot suppress. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-66834156 Now a jailed woman's activist has won the Nobel Peace Prize. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67026216 This leadership will definitely believe an external attack would be of benefit to their popular support. There is also a chance to derail the normalization of Saudi-Israeli relations https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231011-saudi-public-debate-on-ties-with-israel-jolted-by-war A Saudi-Israeli normalization would be a great barrier to Iranian ambitions in the region.
Hopefully, cynicism isn't at the tller, but if cynics are steering, I think they're autocratic.
I would argue that the behavior of Hamas towards the civilian targets was not only a reflection of animalistic impulses of the terrorists as individuals or of Hamas' ideology. Rather, it may also be part of a strategy to incite an Israeli over-reaction that could be used to generate support for Iran and/or scuttle the Israeli-Saudi negotiations.
^As gross as that is, it makes sense.
Quote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 07:36:16 AMQuote from: Uberhaus on October 11, 2023, 09:06:22 PMI am dubious of Egypt and Congressman McCaul's claims that Israel was warned as these claims aren't being substantiated. Netanyahu can be cynical, but I don't believe for an instant that he would sacrifice so much even for the destruction of Iran. For the potential loss of some aircraft and aircrew he could easily wreck Iran's nuclear program and then continue to ignore the usual international outrage.
However, Iran's leadership is facing a serious internal threat from protests that have continued for a year and that they cannot suppress. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-66834156 Now a jailed woman's activist has won the Nobel Peace Prize. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67026216 This leadership will definitely believe an external attack would be of benefit to their popular support. There is also a chance to derail the normalization of Saudi-Israeli relations https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231011-saudi-public-debate-on-ties-with-israel-jolted-by-war A Saudi-Israeli normalization would be a great barrier to Iranian ambitions in the region.
Hopefully, cynicism isn't at the tller, but if cynics are steering, I think they're autocratic.
I would argue that the behavior of Hamas towards the civilian targets was not only a reflection of animalistic impulses of the terrorists as individuals or of Hamas' ideology. Rather, it may also be part of a strategy to incite an Israeli over-reaction that could be used to generate support for Iran and/or scuttle the Israeli-Saudi negotiations.
There is no "over-reaction" to the rape and murder of women, the beheading of infant babies and the slaughter of the elderly. Israel is legally and morally justified in leveling Gaza in my view. Any comfort Israel gives to Gaza, be it electricity, water, supplies, etc. are used against it. No other country on the planet would tolerate what Israel has put up with since 2007 and no other country on the planet would not retaliate with all means in its arsenal in response to this provocation.
If my theory is correct, then it becomes incumbent on Israel to appear to be as moderate as possible in their response. Not that the Hamas actions don't deserve the fires of Hell raining upon them. But there are larger issues. You really want to hurt Iran? Then don't let this operation scuttle the Saudi-Israeli negotiations. WHile some retaliation in the near term is necessary (and I have no problem with the Mossad spending the next twenty years hunting down the perpetrators and killing them like dogs), it will be important to very precisely target Hamas. Not an easy thing to do, with the current and understandable state of Israeli public opinion. I believe the formation of a unity government in Israel is a good first step. The use of the hostages as human shields will make this targeted approach more difficult. Nevertheless, IMHO, this targeted and limited approach is needed to win the larger war.
Jarhead: I see we both posted at near the same time. I don't disagree with your position. Hamas' behavior has removed them from the protections of the laws of war. Pretty much any response is absolutely justified. But whether it is wise to do so is another issue. I believe the negotiations with Saudi Arabia are extremely important for Israel's security and for isolating Iran. I don't want to see a justified Israeli response to endanger those negotiations. Thus, moderating to a degree, the response that is absolutely justified in order to keep the negotiations on track is the superior strategy to winning the larger conflict.
Quote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 08:00:09 AMIf my theory is correct, then it becomes incumbent on Israel to appear to be as moderate as possible in their response. Not that the Hamas actions don't deserve the fires of Hell raining upon them. But there are larger issues. You really want to hurt Iran? Then don't let this operation scuttle the Saudi-Israeli negotiations. WHile some retaliation in the near term is necessary (and I have no problem with the Mossad spending the next twenty years hunting down the perpetrators and killing them like dogs), it will be important to very precisely target Hamas. Not an easy thing to do, with the current and understandable state of Israeli public opinion. I believe the formation of a unity government in Israel is a good first step. The use of the hostages as human shields will make this targeted approach more difficult. Nevertheless, IMHO, this targeted and limited approach is needed to win the larger game.
This isn't a game. Israel is fighting for their very existence. There is no winning so long as there are people who believe that Israel has no right to exist. I agree with Ben Shapiro that Hamas is worse than the Nazis. The Nazis at least tried to cover up their crimes. Hamas livestreams their crimes and celebrates each murder.
There will be no peace until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Truer words have never been spoken.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2023, 08:10:37 AMQuote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 08:00:09 AMIf my theory is correct, then it becomes incumbent on Israel to appear to be as moderate as possible in their response. Not that the Hamas actions don't deserve the fires of Hell raining upon them. But there are larger issues. You really want to hurt Iran? Then don't let this operation scuttle the Saudi-Israeli negotiations. WHile some retaliation in the near term is necessary (and I have no problem with the Mossad spending the next twenty years hunting down the perpetrators and killing them like dogs), it will be important to very precisely target Hamas. Not an easy thing to do, with the current and understandable state of Israeli public opinion. I believe the formation of a unity government in Israel is a good first step. The use of the hostages as human shields will make this targeted approach more difficult. Nevertheless, IMHO, this targeted and limited approach is needed to win the larger game.
This isn't a game. Israel is fighting for their very existence. There is no winning so long as there are people who believe that Israel has no right to exist. I agree with Ben Shapiro that Hamas is worse than the Nazis. The Nazis at least tried to cover up their crimes. Hamas livestreams their crimes and celebrates each murder.
There will be no peace until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Truer words have never been spoken.
You are absolutely right it isn't a game. I changed that. It is a war, and the outrage that is the Iranian/Hamas deserves a full response, but one that does not simultaneously end up hurting Israel. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am more than happy to retaliate on an industrial scale, if that is in the best interest of Israel's national security interest. The question is whether doing so would help or hurt Israel. For the reasons I articulated, I think that the immediate retaliation needs to moderated and targeted so as to allow Israel to win the larger war.
Quote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 08:24:59 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2023, 08:10:37 AMQuote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 08:00:09 AMIf my theory is correct, then it becomes incumbent on Israel to appear to be as moderate as possible in their response. Not that the Hamas actions don't deserve the fires of Hell raining upon them. But there are larger issues. You really want to hurt Iran? Then don't let this operation scuttle the Saudi-Israeli negotiations. WHile some retaliation in the near term is necessary (and I have no problem with the Mossad spending the next twenty years hunting down the perpetrators and killing them like dogs), it will be important to very precisely target Hamas. Not an easy thing to do, with the current and understandable state of Israeli public opinion. I believe the formation of a unity government in Israel is a good first step. The use of the hostages as human shields will make this targeted approach more difficult. Nevertheless, IMHO, this targeted and limited approach is needed to win the larger game.
This isn't a game. Israel is fighting for their very existence. There is no winning so long as there are people who believe that Israel has no right to exist. I agree with Ben Shapiro that Hamas is worse than the Nazis. The Nazis at least tried to cover up their crimes. Hamas livestreams their crimes and celebrates each murder.
There will be no peace until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Truer words have never been spoken.
You are absolutely right it isn't a game. I changed that. It is a war, and the outrage that is the Iranian/Hamas deserves a full response, but one that does not simultaneously end up hurting Israel. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am more than happy to retaliate on an industrial scale, if that is in the best interest of Israel's national security interest. The question is whether doing so would help or hurt Israel. For the reasons I articulated, I think that the immediate retaliation needs to moderated and targeted so as to allow Israel to win the larger war.
Your point is valid, and I understand what you are saying. However, it wouldn't even be worth considering, but for the fact that the rest of the world is so twisted in how it tends to view responsibility for violence in the region and the standard upon which it imposes upon Israel, while essentially giving the Arabs a free pass.
Yes, you are absolutely correct on this. The intellectual and moral bankruptcy and/or moral inversion that allows for this twisted thinking is extremely frustrating. Frankly, it is, IMHO, a major factor in why the world (and not just regarding Israel) is in the shape it is in today.
Interesting point worth considering at the end of this thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1711630404132773920.html
"Israel can win a one front war against Hamas. It can contain a two front war against Hezbollah. It might just endure a three front war in the West Bank. It may not survive a four front war with its domestic Arab population. Everything I fear is designed to bring about the latter "
Quote from: Tripoli on October 12, 2023, 09:04:25 AMInteresting point worth considering at the end of this thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1711630404132773920.html
"Israel can win a one front war against Hamas. It can contain a two front war against Hezbollah. It might just endure a three front war in the West Bank. It may not survive a four front war with its domestic Arab population. Everything I fear is designed to bring about the latter "
I'm not sure the Arab Israeli population sees things in the same way as those who are in the West Bank and Gaza. Israeli Arabs have the privilege of citizenship, benefit from economic advantages and are much better off than than their peers. While I doubt they have patriotic love for Israel, I don't think many of them would take up arms.
The Arabs have largely received a free pass for the last 15-20 years, in large part because the Israelis seemed to have the upper hand. In the face of these most recent Hamas atrocities, I suspect much of world opinion will mellow.
The Israelis have always had to strike a balancing act between world opinion and survival instinct. It is worth remembering that Hamas is fundamentally a terrorist organization. Unless/until they get their hands on nuclear weapons, their primary weapon against Israel is terror.
The Israelis need a surgically calibrated response here that protects their own, but doesn't play into Iran's longer-term plans. While Hamas is the latest Hydra-head to emerge from the mess that is Palestine and the Middle East, I think that the root cause here is Palestinian extremism, backed by Iranian planning and resources.
That is a frustrating balancing act. But it's exactly the challenge Hamas sought to pose when they committed the atrocities that they did.
I could find a few Tsun Szu quotes that apply here pretty easily. But the Israelis need purpose and calculation here even more than passion. Even if I understand the passion behind the response 100%.
Tomas Pueyo writes some interesting stuff. He's provocative more often than he's entirely correct, but if anybody wants a SUPER high level summary of geography and economics in the Middle East, you can find an interesting link here (https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/will-israel-be-at-war?r=4sbw6). It's maybe a 5-minute read with lots of pictures.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2023, 08:10:37 AMThere will be no peace until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Truer words have never been spoken.
...will not happen,
look what this guy is doing to get his Pallywood production sobstory video :idiot2:
well, it didn't worked like intended :grin:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711723744731734048
Quote from: MikeGER on October 12, 2023, 09:39:13 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2023, 08:10:37 AMThere will be no peace until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews. Truer words have never been spoken.
...will not happen,
look what this guy is doing to get his Pallywood production sobstory video :idiot2:
well, it didn't worked like intended :grin:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1711723744731734048
Not that it changes the content of the video, but this is from 2016 !.
Shadows can't be like that this time of the year.
http://www.thetower.org/3715-watch-palestinian-urges-idf-to-shoot-his-son-on-camera-soldier-and-boy-high-five-instead/
Hamas' hoping for an Israeli over-reaction/Multitude of dead Palestinian bodies to post on social media, is aimed not at Israel but the West. They well know Israel has the stomach for this kind of war but, 'We', meaning America and Europe, do not. Their hope is that people of conscience will ride-in at the last moment, again, and save them. It worked last time but may not this time, I hope.
That is why Israel is moving so fast here, they know it will only be a little while before World Opinion guided by Palestinian propaganda, will try to make them stop and negotiate a deal that Hamas can display to the whole Arab World as another victory over Zionism.
If Israel can form a unity government in light of the last few years of domestic politics, then maybe they can save the peace process with the Saudis too.
Re the 20% Muslim population of Israel: I don't have independent confirmation of this, but I recall Shaprio saying that in a poll a very large percentage of that population -- so large it might as well be unanimous -- stated they hated Israel.
Of course, he was understandably upset at the time, so he might be rhetorically exaggerating the point, or misremembering the details. But his point was the irony involved: they have more freedoms and get more benefits living there, than any general Muslim population anywhere around them, and VASTLY more than any Jewish population in any Muslim nation anywhere on Earth. And yet some, too many, of them still hate Israel and want to see it swept of Jews from the river to the sea.
Hopefully an equally large fraction of that hatred is just cultural cover for their own protection from problems by fellow Muslims. That boy high-fiving the IDF, in the video above, might be more representative. I'd sure like to hope so.
For whatever it's worth, one of the main reconciliation factors in recent years between Jewish and other semitic people, has been a surprising jump in conversions of Muslims around the world to Christianity. There are built-in factors even within Islam for reconciliation with their brothers: they're taught to at least like Abraham and David, and really admire King Solomon (to the point of some of their leaders claiming to be the inheritors of Solomon), and they're taught to love "Issi", the miracle-working virgin-born prophet of Allah/the Lord. Can't really get around all these people being ethnically Jewish.
Just a reminder what Israel is fighting against, and what supporters of Hamas are actually supporting:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-explains-how-they-did-it/ar-AA1i41dw?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=d54b2310aaec4c2a8feed77dc4f9332d&ei=37
Unfortunately, this brief editorial piece at
WSJ doesn't give citations for Ali Baraka's interview with
Russia Today.
Most of the article is this key paragraph:
Quote"In the past couple of years, Hamas has adopted a 'rational' approach. It did not go into any war, and did not join the Islamic Jihad in its recent battle," Ali Baraka said in an interview that ran on Russia Today and was translated by Memri. "We made them think that Hamas was busy with governing Gaza, and that it wanted to focus on the 2.5 million Palestinians there, and has abandoned the resistance altogether. All the while, under the table, Hamas was preparing for this big attack."
Note that "governing Gaza" still involved shooting occasional rocket strikes into Israel hoping to hit population centers. :buck2:
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 12, 2023, 07:53:51 AMNo other country on the planet would tolerate what Israel has put up with since 2007 1948
fixed
so what are the chances of Israel using water, gas and food as leverage in getting the hostages released?
complaining about not having enough water while you did up your own water lines.....
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712456802531491947
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8PymMJawAA3ew9?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8PymMNbEAAS152?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8PymMCawAA8kup?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8Qm01pWoAAulk6?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67089113
QuoteOne of the first Israeli settlements to come under attack when Hamas militants surged into Israel early on Saturday morning was the Nir Am kibbutz, where local people put up a fierce defence and drove the attackers away.
"I took my pistol, my clothes, my bulletproof vest and the other thing was cigarettes," Adam says, calmly recounting being jolted from his bed by the sound of gunfire at 06:30 on Saturday. "We started to kill everyone who came to the fence."
He's been labelled the hero of Nir Am, the saviour of his kibbutz, a community of around 400 people living just 2km (1.2 miles) from Gaza.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712530717693931888
'A colossal failure brought on by a heavy reliance on digital tech and an underestimation of the enemy.'
Axios reports that a UN spokesperson Stephanie Dujarric has said that the Israeli MOD has given the UN and about 1.2 million people north of Wadi Gaza to evacuate to the southern tip of the Gaza strip in 24 hours.
Shortly after that massive artillery and air strikes have begun rolling regularly in northern Gaza.
Fast analysis on that of course is that is a logistical impossibility. The US State Department said talks failed with Egypt to open the southern border. Egypt feels that the Palestinians should fight their own battles and are refusing them refuge.
Looks like the invasion is coming tomorrow.
lotta mixed emotions about where this is going to lead.
UN just issued a statement condemning the order to evacuate in the timeframe given.
The statement reads "The UN considers it impossible for such a move to take place without devastating humanitarian consequences"
BREAKING: Israel has used white phosphorus in military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, putting civilians at risk of serious and long-term injuries.
White phosphorus causes excruciating burns and can set homes afire. Its use in populated areas is unlawful.
https://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=20
"As we act, let us not be the evil that we deplore."
Live feeds are nuts right now. Pretty much a strike every few seconds. Doesn't look like arty, airstrikes with some major payloads.
Quote from: Groggy on October 12, 2023, 10:16:26 PMhttps://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=20
skeptical about that
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8Sa1tNWwAA4ujy?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 12, 2023, 10:20:51 PMQuote from: Groggy on October 12, 2023, 10:16:26 PMhttps://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=20
skeptical about that
HRW analyzed the video and identified 155mm white phosphorus airburst artillery projectiles. And lets not forget that Israel has a track record of using white phosphorus going back to the 2008-09 Gaza campaign.
ok
Reuters reported that Hamas has ordered its population to stay in place. They are informing their citizens that it is false information and they are to shelter in place.
to be clear, I'm asking this due to the massive amount of disinformation surrounding this conflict.
what are the other primary sources?
what are the secondary sources?
the post goes from a picture to a video on WP effects with no other information.
no after effects, no burned people running away, nothing.
what is the rest of the story if there actually is one.
to be fair, the IAF has dropped a shit ton of 2000lb jadams all over Gaza so far, so why use WP?
I'm not saying they haven't used it in the past but I think there would a lot more coverage of this today.
also the two videos provided in the article seem to be pretty consistent with smoke screens, which they mention which is fair play.
tank uses multi spectral smoke grenades = war crime?
Lawrence Freedman with his first commentary on Hamas. I've quite appreciated his analysis re Russia's Invasion of Ukraine. This one was a thorough and also quite downbeat analysis for the background as how we got here, and how, in fact, Hamas can't be contained.
I read somewhere a comparison to Indonesia and Tamili Tigers, and for the cost of having that terror organisation eradicated. That took some 40k civilian casualties iirc.
No good options, I wonder if any bad options either, just worse and even worse options, as diplomacy does not work with terrorists.
https://samf.substack.com/p/hamas-attacks-israel?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
WP shell
smoke screen shell
'Egypt feels that the Palestinians should fight their own battles and are refusing them refuge.'
Well how about that.
and Jordan has blocked its border with the West Bank.
its like theyre well aware of the trouble these people can cause. :rolleyes:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712822160358523202
The various regional players besides Israel and the Palestinians all have their own agendas here, and providing justice and a safe homeland for the Palestinians isn't always high on their list. A thought-provoking but heartbreaking article in Politico suggests that, while Israel is understandably grieving and rightly furious, there might be some lessons to be learned from the US response to 9/11.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/13/in-israel-theres-grief-anger-and-determination-but-whats-the-plan-00121366
FOX News' Man-on-the-Ground Trey Yingst I think, reported this morning that he had multiple sources telling him that Hamas was actively preventing civilians from leaving Gaza per the Israeli Evacuation Warnings.
^Yes - standard operating procedure for Hamas.
Israel is going to catch all the shit no matter what they do so they might as well do what they think is best for them.
Quote from: Groggy on October 12, 2023, 10:16:26 PMBREAKING: Israel has used white phosphorus in military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, putting civilians at risk of serious and long-term injuries.
White phosphorus causes excruciating burns and can set homes afire. Its use in populated areas is unlawful.
https://x.com/hrw/status/1712573871596187916?s=20
"As we act, let us not be the evil that we deplore."
Not sure about this video, but false reports recently went around making this claim while showing a video from around 2016.
Quote from: Gusington on October 13, 2023, 12:04:23 PM^Yes - standard operating procedure for Hamas.
Yep. Hamas needs a body count. They really don't care if it is Israeli or Palestinian. In their eyes, both are useful for advancing their cause.
Hamas isn't only actively preventing them, they're putting their HQ's and strongpoints in and among civilian concentrations.
Hamas will melt away and use pre-prepared evacuation routes as soon as the pressure is on, and use civilians to absorb the casualties and stir greater rebellion.
Iran will tout the body count and turn every image that comes out of Gaza into a recruiting poster for Hezbollah.
and the world calls for Israeli restraint.... gtfo
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712840771328483528
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712877760966717916
What absolutely infuriates me how these wicked hypocrites jump all over Israel as soon as fighting breaks.
The story is different though with every other nation on this planet, including, yes even including the wicked monster puti n and what he's doing. How come no one called for restraint by either party in that war?
The old testament clearly says that the G of Israel will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. One day, whether you believe it or not, these evil doers will be held to account before the almighty and no one will be there to help them.
In the meantime we must pray for the innocent people caught in the crossfire no matter which nationality they are.
Putin has been uncharacteristically silent about this one. I wonder why? Or have I missed something?
found this quote and I think its pretty accurate.
The current Israeli mood (as much as I can determine it) could best be analogized for Americans to that in the US post-9/11. Many think they're up against Holocaust 2.0, they're in the process of fighting it out with terrorists while they bury their dead. Calls for restraint and protestations about the finer points of international law are going to fall on deaf ears.
Agree with it or not, that's where they are and we should prepare ourselves for the implications of that mindset as the IDF gears up to invade Gaza.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 13, 2023, 02:05:31 PMPutin has been uncharacteristically silent about this one. I wonder why? Or have I missed something?
oh you've missed some things on this. gimmi a few to dig up his moronic commentary
first this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8UpxWcW4AEW_5e?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 13, 2023, 02:06:29 PMQuote from: Sir Slash on October 13, 2023, 02:05:31 PMPutin has been uncharacteristically silent about this one. I wonder why? Or have I missed something?
oh you've missed some things on this. gimmi a few to dig up his moronic commentary
Yeah he said a couple of hypocritical things but later I read he said "I support Israel". Whatever dude, he sucks. Put in that is.
more here:
https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/
Quote from: W8taminute on October 13, 2023, 02:11:24 PMYeah he said a couple of hypocritical things but later I read he said "I support Israel".
the maralago mango mocked Israel a few days ago as well and today came out with a I stand with Israel comment.
fuck them both
I know Shaprio thinks (or thought yesterday) the interview with Russia Today was legit, where a Hamas leader explained their deception strategy (as I reported briefly upthread). That's pretty telling.
On 155mm WP, I don't know how true that is this time, but if the IDF is doing it this time my preliminary guess would be it's for the same reason(s) as last time -- whatever that would be.
A Palestinian pizza restaurant owner thought it would be funny to use the image of a kidnapped holocaust survivor in an ad. IDF did not find it funny and promptly arrested the owner and bulldozed the pizza restaurant.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712603342684250372
heres some context for that
The 90-year-old Holocaust survivor Gina Smiatich was murdered in her own home in Kibbutz Kissufim by Hamas.
She was dragged out of a shelter, taken to her living room, forced to kneel and then shot in the back of her head.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8TXxLOXYAAU5ss?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1712886039503593675
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 13, 2023, 02:24:58 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 13, 2023, 02:11:24 PMYeah he said a couple of hypocritical things but later I read he said "I support Israel".
the maralago mango mocked Israel a few days ago as well and today came out with a I stand with Israel comment.
fuck them both
Yes
It is really difficult to watch or read about Holocaust survivors who were killed in this. I can't focus.
Y'all beat me to it with Putin's 'unacceptable' quote today.
Unreal.
I also learned today that I have cousins who live in the Tel Aviv area (I thought they lived near Jerusalem). Haven't seen them for about 25 years but I am hoping someone in my family would know if they are ok or not.
...
To back up the comments that Israel is in no mood for BS, there's this from the BBC:
**
A group of BBC journalists covering Israel's war with Hamas were held at gunpoint and assaulted by Israeli police in Tel Aviv Thursday night, according to the network.
The disturbing incident came as the team of three journalists drove to their hotel in a vehicle "clearly marked as media," the British news network said.
The BBC said that the team was "dragged from their vehicle," searched, and pushed up against a wall during the stop. One of its journalists said that when he tried to film the incident, an officer threw his phone to the ground.
**
Blood is clearly boiling.
this is in many ways a lot rougher for me personally then 9/11.
ffs an Israel diplomat was stabbed in china today.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-china-attack-d572e4169dd7f451cb2b2197506bc74c
someone tell me again that there are good people on both sides.... :angry:
^I just saw that in Politico and didn't understand the background, it sounded like a random crime. I dunno...
9/11 really messed me up as old-timers here know, as I was there.
This is different in a new, horrible way. Similar to the Russian invasion of Ukraine last year, but worse.
I just feel like I am walking around with a bullseye on my chest.
Quote from: Gusington on October 13, 2023, 05:03:57 PM^I just saw that in Politico and didn't understand the background, it sounded like a random crime. I dunno...
hamas or whoever called for a day of jihad today.
a French teacher was killed by a chechin.
^I know, I was ordered to stay out of my office building today.
Some kids in my area did not go to school.
I was expecting much worse.
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1712799822023913769
Did they accept?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 13, 2023, 04:57:01 PMsomeone tell me again that there are good people on both sides.... :angry:
Awad Darousha, an Israeli Arab citizen, was an ambulance driver who, during the Hamas terror attack on Saturday, worked with medical teams to save the lives of the wounded until Hamas terrorists murdered him as well. One of the 1300 victims of Hamas' heinous terrorism and hellish diabolical massacre in Israel this week💔https://twitter.com/YosephHaddad/status/1712439746742362318?t=Lsgb8lt12FQhZXZ6og79HA&s=19
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/arab-israeli-hamas-attacks.html
^You had me until the ambulance driver was also killed :/
as I was saying.
funny how 2+ billion people intrinsically want to kill 16 million.
then add all the rest.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDkWWYKCQAEghU-.jpg)
Some years back I worked with a Psychiatrist from Spain, a really good doctor, a highly educated man, and a very moral man. This was back in the Palestinian Suicide Bus-Bomber days. A report came on TV of the Israelis retaliating by bombing some target somewhere and I distinctly recall him turning to me and saying, "The Jews. No matter where they live they cause nothing but trouble. They just can't get along with anyone".
I was dumbfounded and tried to explain why the Israelis were doing what they were doing but he just shook his head and said again, "Nothing but trouble no matter where they live". I knew this man well enough to know he didn't hate Jews. He simply was ignorant of the truth. He had one of the finest educations a person could ever have, but he never bothered to learn truth, nor even apparently an opposing opinion. There's lots of THAT going round these days.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713201470445609322
Another horrible stastic to throw on the pile.
Gaza has the highest percentage of children to the overall population in the world. As of last count 42.5% of the population of the strip is age 14 and under. Almost 2/3rds of that is under 9.
Trophy might be getting a workout soon
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713235215739506999
3 bomb threats so far in France today.
the Louvre, Versailles and another Im forgetting
this is training that hamas could not have gotten in Gaza.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713241277796335871
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8Vg3kpWUAAejV5?format=jpg&name=large)
:RockOn:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713203892245164467
"The protest against the BBC continues following the fact that it refuses to call Hamas a terrorist organization: this is what the entrance to the building looked like this morning"
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19398
"Hamas sets up barriers to prevent residents from going south"
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/19382
why couldnt the IDF just start pumping sea water into the tunnels and literally flush hamas out?
IDK, that's a good question. I think though they want to bomb the tunnels so that they get blocked up permanently.
As reported earlier, the Hamas official explaining things to RT was true. I'm going to post the Ben Shapiro show from Thursday, which starts by going over the footage and explaining what's being said. (The whole show is a little over an hour, but the first part is useful corroboration to earlier reports.)
Age restricted, so you might need a google or related account signed in somewhere to watch.
Quote from: W8taminute on October 14, 2023, 08:43:04 PMIDK, that's a good question. I think though they want to bomb the tunnels so that they get blocked up permanently.
my understanding is that this is exactly what Egypt did on their side of the border and it worked.
pumping the water at a high pressure will do the job of collapsing the tunnels.
this also avoids having to use chemicals like tear gas or worse.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 14, 2023, 09:08:18 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 14, 2023, 08:43:04 PMIDK, that's a good question. I think though they want to bomb the tunnels so that they get blocked up permanently.
my understanding is that this is exactly what Egypt did on their side of the border and it worked.
pumping the water at a high pressure will do the job of collapsing the tunnels.
this also avoids having to use chemicals like tear gas or worse.
it takes too long.
I. opt for acetylene. It has explosive limit between 2.3% and 82% (above 82 it selfintegrates with the same result, no oxygen needed) when the mixture reach a ignition source somewhere in the tunnel you get -->
they used CH4 to simulate natural sewer gas so
Landing F-15s always look like they are right at a tail strike.
best fighter ever!
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 14, 2023, 09:08:18 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 14, 2023, 08:43:04 PMIDK, that's a good question. I think though they want to bomb the tunnels so that they get blocked up permanently.
my understanding is that this is exactly what Egypt did on their side of the border and it worked.
pumping the water at a high pressure will do the job of collapsing the tunnels.
this also avoids having to use chemicals like tear gas or worse.
Nice, I did not know that. They should give this a try then.
A Hamas fighter's last moments caught on GoPro. It's marked NSFW but there's no blood or anything.
Notice how carefully he tactically walks in the middle of open ground completely exposed while yapping loudly enough for anybody nearby to hear.
Allegedly this is the same person seen in another GoPro video shooting a dog that ran up to him wagging its tail, then set the owner's house on fire.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/178dlxu/footage_hamas_militant_last_moments/?ref=share&ref_source=link
EDIT - Here's the embedded video from Twitter
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1713559468913340546
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713604671179211189
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713362660564046095
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713650373255192785
From CNN:
-Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, in his first clear and stark denouncement of Hamas' attacks on Israel, said the militant group's actions "do not represent the Palestinian people."-
seems like a plan
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8fp-u2WUAAjZQu?format=png&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713575620507009313
https://twitter.com/tallyman2023/status/1713780418745622754
never forget
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713865851412140455
oh, those the "innocent" civilians of Palestine everyone's been soon crying about :magnify:
I would add one thing to the, "Star Post-Battle Plan". Last time this happened, as soon as the rockets fell silent, good old Uncle Sam showed-up with a big, fat check to pay for everything Israel knocked down to be rebuilt. This time let them live in the rubble a while.
Analysis of Hamas Op Orders.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8juaGvWcAAWib9?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8nDvZBX0AACFxh?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Quote from: MikeGER on October 16, 2023, 06:54:34 AMhttps://twitter.com/tallyman2023/status/1713780418745622754
never forget
These images were used to support a narrative that Palestinians were celebrating the attacks, but it's important to recognize that these celebrations were not representative of the entire Palestinian population and were not widely endorsed.
Quote from: Groggy on October 17, 2023, 06:56:27 AMQuote from: MikeGER on October 16, 2023, 06:54:34 AMhttps://twitter.com/tallyman2023/status/1713780418745622754
never forget
These images were used to support a narrative that Palestinians were celebrating the attacks, but it's important to recognize that these celebrations were not representative of the entire Palestinian population and were not widely endorsed.
I believe the evidence is that the post-9/11 celebrations in the Palestinian areas were in fact representative of the majority of the Palestinians. To begin, it is undeniable that Palestinian public support for terrorism is widespread. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence):
"A July 2001 poll conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy & Survey Research (PSR) found that 58 percent of Palestinians supported armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel and 92 percent supported armed confrontations against the Israeli army in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. A May 2002 poll by the center found that support for bombings of civilians inside Israel dropped to 52%, but support for armed attacks against Israeli settlers remained "very high" at 89 percent. Support for armed attacks against soldiers stood at 92 percent. A poll after the 2003 Maxim restaurant suicide bombing, in which 20 Israelis were killed, concluded that 75 percent of Palestinians supported the attack, with support higher "in the Gaza Strip (82%) compared to the West Bank (70%), in refugee camps (84%) compared to towns and villages (69%), among women (79%) compared to men (71%), among the young (78%) compared to the old (66%), among students (81%) compared to professionals (33%), and among supporters of Hamas (92%) compared to supporters of Fateh (69%)". SO based on this, support for terrorism against civilians was generally approved by Palesinians in 2001.
Moving to the 9/11 attacks specifically, in Brown, Cameron. "THE SHOT SEEN AROUND THE WORLD: THE MIDDLE EAST REACTS TO SEPTEMBER 11TH." CIAO: Columbia International Affairs Online. Last modified December 2001. https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/brc01_01.pdf., polling after 9/11 shows considerable support for the attack.
"One of the most fascinating findings was the response to the question: "If it is proven that the party responsible for the attacks in New York and Washington is of Arab-Islamic descent, should these groups be seen as representing Arabs and Muslims as a whole?" Fifty percent of the respondents answered yes (54 percent in the Gaza Strip),
and only 42 percent said no. Further, only 25 percent of the respondents agreed that "the United States [is] justified in attacking those parties responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington," while nearly 70 percent disagreed. On the other hand, only 26 percent of those surveyed believed the attack was consistent with Islamic Shari'a, while 64
percent disagreed. As far as the ramifications for the attacks were concerned, Palestinians seemed quite split, with 43 percent holding the opinion that the attacks "are consistent with Arab interests" while 47 percent disagreed."While this data does not show overwhelming support for the 9/11 attacks among Palestinians, it does show, either a very significant minority or a slight majority appear to support the attacks. There is other polling from the era I could dig up, but that will have to wait until later today.
Very true. To the Muslim-Fanaticals, Israel is the, 'Little Satan' and the U.S. is the, 'Great Satan'. Wahabi-ism has taught for many years in the West Bank and Gaza the Palestinians to hate the West and kill Jews. It begins in their Elementary Schools.
In this case two things can be true at once: Palestinians (among other Muslim ethnic groups) widely supported the 9-11 attack, but this support was not representative of the Palestinian people as a whole. One might suppose some of the support was more a case of being sure to fit in, to protect themselves; but one might suppose some of the opposition was also a case of protective covering.
Anyway, even though I regard that celebration as morally reprehensible, they have the freedom to do so as protected (but not granted) by the US Constitution. Just like the Hamas supporters today. And other demonstrations I regard as morally reprehensible. Many of them would regard me as morally reprehensible in turn, so that's fair.
That doesn't mean everyone supporting Hamas or 9-11 really understood the implications of what they were supporting. Rational action is a fundamental characteristic of persons, but that doesn't mean people are always competent at applying it, even when they're supposed to be.
(I'm a bit salty this morning from having been taking notes on an article written by someone who thinks if Justice Himself brings all doers of injustice to do only justice instead forevermore, then that's false justice; unlike Justice Himself choosing for at least some creatures to necessarily only do injustice and never do true justice forevermore, including injustice toward Justice Himself, which Justice Himself regards as the fullest expression of the chief goal of Justice that those creatures should truly honor justice. This has some relevance to Islamic theology generally -- a comparison this professor of philosophy and theology, teaching other people for many decades now at professional institutions, would probably be insulted by. He states he doesn't and shouldn't even want Justice Himself to bring all creatures to do justice, as that would be horribly unjust against victims of their injustice and against the cry of the human heart for justice! :doh: :uglystupid2: :tickedoff: He's actually a very kind-hearted person, who doesn't understand what in the actual hell he's saying or teaching or even teaching against in some cases.)
I think we need to redouble our efforts to keep the thread focused on the tactical and strategic situation in the region. I know that everybody feels very strongly about this conflict, including myself, and it is pretty clear that although many of us view the conflict through a similar lens, not everyone is in complete agreement, so we need to try to be respectful of that. Certainly, there is so much cross-over and there is much that many of us would like to say and discuss, but we need to continue following the no RPFM rule as best as we can. Most of us will stray at one point or another, but lets think twice before posting and try not to lose focus.
Thanks! :ThumbsUp:
U.S. Marines and Navy continue moving assets into the region:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/politics/us-marines-pentagon-israel/index.html
Guys this forum does an excellent job keeping sensitive topics under control. There is only one other forum that is equally if not more effective in keeping things civil and that's the civ fanatics forums.
Somehow over there people have lock down drag down discussions on religion but keep it respectful and from escalating out of control.
Now the community here is far more superior knowledge-wise, gaming-wise, and just plain grogginess-wise. Surely we can keep it civil while at the same time keeping it real.
Which means stay on target...I mean topic. :grin:
Oh and here is a little Star Wars for you because you know, it's me. :tie1:
(https://media.tenor.com/xTUusIsHDOUAAAAC/star-wars-stay-on-target.gif)
missile hits pali hostpital and kills several dozen.
world blames the IDF because why not.
missile turns out to be one fired by hamas that fell short.
most news just goes to the next story with no correction because Jews.
dumb fucks almost hit the Al-Aqsa mosque the other day as well.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1714379637839573451
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 17, 2023, 04:24:26 PMmissile hits pali hostpital and kills several dozen.
world blames the IDF because why not.
missile turns out to be one fired by hamas that fell short.
most news just goes to the next story with no correction because Jews.
Yeah, it won't matter if the IDF did it or not, the Arab world won't buy it.
The PNA representative to the UN directly called Netanyahu a liar and claims the IDF spokesperson tweeted that the IDF bombed the hospital because it had a Hamas HQ inside. They deleted the tweet but the PNA claims to still have it. I've not seen any media outlet able to confirm that.
Jordan and Egypt have cancelled the peace summit with the PNA and US in protest.
and thats one of the many reasons I have almost zero sympathy for palestinians
Newsmax reports that the hospital strike was a single explosion followed by a massive secondary.
The IDF spokesperson has said they'll provide all the telemetry data of the Islamic Jihad rockets but they will not allow any neutral investigation of the impact site.
They're also providing data of all air combat activity at the time showing there was only one combat sortie in progress and did not strike anywhere close to the hospital.
Biden's visit to Jordan has been canceled and the four-way summit between the leaders of the USA, Palestine, Egypt and Jordan has been scrapped after the strike on the Al-Ahly hospital.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 17, 2023, 05:05:44 PMNewsmax reports that the hospital strike was a single explosion followed by a massive secondary.
hamas would NEVER hide rockets in a hospital or school!
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 17, 2023, 05:24:41 PMhamas would NEVER hide rockets in a hospital or school!
Of course not!
The IDF actually showed UAV footage of the strike zone and the hospital shows no exterior damage at all. The impact site is clearly in the parking lot.
That doesn't mean that the impact didn't trigger a weapon store inside the hospital though. That's increasingly looking like what happened.
And now a massive pro-Palestine riot in Istanbul.
still caused this summit to not happen
CNN is reporting that it was indeed a Palestinian rocket that caused the hospital explosion.
But that still does not take away from the point that the Arab world will believe it as said above.
jfc these people
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8qahHWWEAAk5TF?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 17, 2023, 09:00:26 PMjfc these people
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8qahHWWEAAk5TF?format=jpg&name=small)
This is entirely political. Keep it out.
:nono2:
It's foolish to think our enemies would not take advantage of the border crisis by infiltrating into the country through the porous south. What would be the ramifications of an attack within the continental United States and do you think this is something Iran is planning?
https://nypost.com/2023/10/15/4th-iranian-special-interest-alien-apprehended-this-month-in-texas-us-customs-confirms/ (https://nypost.com/2023/10/15/4th-iranian-special-interest-alien-apprehended-this-month-in-texas-us-customs-confirms/)
I'm sure they're already here and probably not just Iran. There have been quite a large number of Chinese apprehended at the border as well. They would be fools not have taken advantage and slipped sleeper cells inside the U.S. Remember the Russians planned to do something similar at the beginning of a conflict in Europe. What they would do and what would trigger it I'm afraid to think about. But I bet Trip's on it! :ThumbsUp:
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 17, 2023, 10:43:02 PMapprehended
that word comes up a lot these days.
its like the people guarding the border are doing their job or something.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 17, 2023, 10:43:02 PMWhat they would do and what would trigger it I'm afraid to think about.
why are you even thinking about sleeper cells anyway? nothing that happened in Israel involved sleeper cells.
where are they sleeping? are you afraid of waking up one day to the great landscaper revolution of 2025? or is it the shawarma insurrection of 2023? a full on assault of your colon.
can we split this off into another thread
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 17, 2023, 11:27:15 PMQuote from: Sir Slash on October 17, 2023, 10:43:02 PMWhat they would do and what would trigger it I'm afraid to think about.
why are you even thinking about sleeper cells anyway? nothing that happened in Israel involved sleeper cells.
where are they sleeping? are you afraid of waking up one day to the great landscaper revolution of 2025? or is it the shawarma insurrection of 2023? a full on assault of your colon.
Why would you jest about this as if there is no border crisis and Iranians have not been arrested having illegally crossed it? It's not a political issue, so don't make it one. The United States is completely exposed and this is directly related to the war in Israel, particularly as the US makes additional commitments to Israel in its war against hamas.
Not completely exposed, or there wouldn't be apprehensions, too, which I think was at least part of Star's point, but I know what you mean.
It's also "also" a political issue, but we may be able to try to avoid that, as long as we don't consider the causes and possible solutions (if any) to any potential or actual tactical and operational issues. Not sure how easy that will be while discussing any potential or actual etc., but we can try.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 17, 2023, 04:24:26 PMmost news just goes to the next story with no correction because Jews.
To be fair (aside from this also being a socio-political topic), most news tends to ignore acknowledging past mistakes even when reporting what amounts to corrective information, regardless of the topic being about Jews or not. That's just how most news works. (Speaking from personal experience as well as a long-ago bachelors of communication degree in broadcasting. :buck2: ) Newspapers may correct their own things occasionally, but they'll typically de-emphasize it. I only know of one periodical offhand which tends to at least sometimes acknowledge corrections of their past mistakes to the top of relevant subsequent articles, and even they don't tend to correct past articles on the same topic, nor are they consistent about it.
News/opinion agencies live or die by perceived trustworthiness, to at least some degree, so there's an institutional reluctance to announce clearly that they were wrong previously on anything; at best they (usually) just hope the audience will forget they made the mistake, unless forced by legal action to do otherwise, and even then they'll tend to do the absolute minimum legally required.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 18, 2023, 07:37:14 AMNot completely exposed, or there wouldn't be apprehensions, too, which I think was at least part of Star's point, but I know what you mean.
There have been more then 2.8 million border crossings in 2023. More than 181,000 in August alone. If that does not qualify as completely exposed, I don't know what is. Furthermore, the country of origin for many of those crossing the border is no longer entirely from Mexico or Central and South America. There are increasing numbers from across Africa, the middle east, China and India.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 18, 2023, 07:37:14 AMIt's also "also" a political issue, but we may be able to try to avoid that, as long as we don't consider the causes and possible solutions (if any) to any potential or actual tactical and operational issues. Not sure how easy that will be while discussing any potential or actual etc., but we can try.
It is not a political issue, unless you want to turn it into one. It is very simple to discuss the potential for attacks originating from terrorists who have infiltrated through the southern corridor and how such attacks may manifest without discussing the abysmal state of the national border policies. It has happened in France and Belgium since October 7. It is not a matter of if it will happen in the US, but when, in my view.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 05:00:41 AMWhy would you jest about this as if there is no border crisis and Iranians have not been arrested having illegally crossed it?
because I think its a joke and the fact that iranians have been arrested along with a lot of other nationalities.
this tells me that the people on the border are doing their jobs.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 08:09:48 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 05:00:41 AMWhy would you jest about this as if there is no border crisis and Iranians have not been arrested having illegally crossed it?
because I think its a joke and the fact that iranians have been arrested along with a lot of other nationalities.
this tells me that the people on the border are doing their jobs.
If you think it's a joke, you're even dumber than I already thought you were.
oh no :ROFL:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 08:18:52 AMoh no :ROFL:
No, seriously. Its great you're laughing about it. I have daughters that go to a Jewish day school. 3,000,000 people have crossed the border illegally since January 2023. "Since the first of October, Border Patrol agents have apprehended individuals from Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya. Malaysia, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Yemen." That was between 10/1 and 10/10. It begs the question...how many weren't apprehended?
...and you think it's a joke? Yeah...stupid.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 07:48:15 AMQuote from: JasonPratt on October 18, 2023, 07:37:14 AMNot completely exposed, or there wouldn't be apprehensions, too, which I think was at least part of Star's point, but I know what you mean.
There have been more then 2.8 million border crossings in 2023. More than 181,000 in August alone. If that does not qualify as completely exposed, I don't know what is. Furthermore, the country of origin for many of those crossing the border is no longer entirely from Mexico or Central and South America. There are increasing numbers from across Africa, the middle east, China and India.
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 18, 2023, 07:37:14 AMIt's also "also" a political issue, but we may be able to try to avoid that, as long as we don't consider the causes and possible solutions (if any) to any potential or actual tactical and operational issues. Not sure how easy that will be while discussing any potential or actual etc., but we can try.
It is not a political issue, unless you want to turn it into one. It is very simple to discuss the potential for attacks originating from terrorists who have infiltrated through the southern corridor and how such attacks may manifest without discussing the abysmal state of the national border policies. It has happened in France and Belgium since October 7. It is not a matter of if it will happen in the US, but when, in my view.
In 2017, there were approximately 10.5 million illegal aliens in the US. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/13/key-facts-about-the-changing-u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population/ (I personally believe that number was higher, but lets go with this as a "best case" number). As of this time last year an additional 5.5 million have crossed the border. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fair-analysis-5-5-million-illegal-aliens-have-crossed-our-borders-since-biden-took-officehow-is-secretary-mayorkas-still-employed-301658734.html So, the absolute "best case" is right now we have 16 million in the US (I know I'm discounting the entirety of the FY 2023 crossings, but this is to get an absolute floor on the number of illegals. I personally believe it is considerably greater than that. This means that approximately 4.5% of the US population is here illegally. It is an absolutely basic fact that terrorists like to hide among a civil population. Therefore, it should be a basic assumption that a significant number of terrorists/terrorist sympathizers are among this large and unvetted population of illegals. The neither the Iranians, the Chinese, nor any of our other potential enemies are so stupid as to not take advantage of such a cheap (especially given we pay for many of the illegals), and potentially deniable attack mechanism. Assuming only 1:100,000 of these illegals is a trained terrorist, that means we have, in the US right now, a minimum of
160 terrorists. I shudder to think what the Iranians (or any other group) could do with such a cadre.
Quote from: Tripoli on October 18, 2023, 09:56:12 AMAssuming only 1:100,000 of these illegals is a trained terrorist, that means we have, in the US right now, a minimum of 160 terrorists. I shudder to think what the Iranians (or any other group) could do with such a cadre.
But that 1 in 100,000 number is pulled out of thin air. You can't use that as a base to calculate other numbers less pulled out of thin air.
Quote from: Redwolf on October 18, 2023, 10:20:43 AMQuote from: Tripoli on October 18, 2023, 09:56:12 AMAssuming only 1:100,000 of these illegals is a trained terrorist, that means we have, in the US right now, a minimum of 160 terrorists. I shudder to think what the Iranians (or any other group) could do with such a cadre.
But that 1 in 100,000 number is pulled out of thin air. You can't use that as a base to calculate other numbers less pulled out of thin air.
Regardless of what the actual number is, its foolish to think that the number is zero. Can't we all agree that the open border is a blatant vulnerability? Our guys need to get it right every single time, while on the other hand, it will only take one mistake that could lead to catastrophic consequences. If only one terrorist gets through, it is one too many. What is the point in arguing over numbers?
Quote from: Redwolf on October 18, 2023, 10:20:43 AMQuote from: Tripoli on October 18, 2023, 09:56:12 AMAssuming only 1:100,000 of these illegals is a trained terrorist, that means we have, in the US right now, a minimum of 160 terrorists. I shudder to think what the Iranians (or any other group) could do with such a cadre.
But that 1 in 100,000 number is pulled out of thin air. You can't use that as a base to calculate other numbers less pulled out of thin air.
As I acknowledge ("Assuming only 1:100,000 of these illegals ..."in my post, that number is an assumption. However, it isn't entirely pulled out of thin air. As I note, terrorists as a matter of routine hide among civilian population. Therefore, it is an absolutely consistent with foundational TTP that they would do so IRT hiding among illegals coming across our border. Coincidentally, https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/number-people-terror-watchlist-stopped-mexico-us-border-risen-rcna105095 reports that 160 people on the terrorism watchlist have been stopped at our southern border. WHile there are problems with the terrorism watch list as a proper metric, this number indicates that certainly the bad guys are trying to infiltrate, and that my 1:100,000, while an assumption, is an extremely generous assumption. As I indicate,
it is likely more. Considerably more. And, FWIW, I spent 20+ years doing CT work, so while my assumptions are just that, I have some real world experience to back them up.
There was almost...almost...a catastrophic failure in Times Square with a car bomb ~5 years ago.
It only took 9 to pull-off 9/11. All were in country illegally as I recall. That's why I worry about Sleeper Cells.
Speaking of sleeper cells, lets not forget the deadliest terrorist attack in US history until 9/11 was committed by a white supremacist domestic terrorist. There are plenty of next generation Timothy McVeighs residing in this country. It could happen again.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 18, 2023, 10:56:12 AMIt only took 9 to pull-off 9/11. All were in country illegally as I recall. That's why I worry about Sleeper Cells.
I think it is fair and reasonable to think that the Mullahs in Iran will continue with their history of taking advantage of situations to harm the West. The opportunity presented by the US southern border is a situation the Mullahs could attempt to exploit.
Assuming just five people get through the southern border and they have training and direction from the Mullahs, what might they do? What are some targets they would go after?
Quote from: Groggy on October 18, 2023, 11:32:57 AMSpeaking of sleeper cells, lets not forget the deadliest terrorist attack in US history until 9/11 was committed by a white supremacist domestic terrorist. There are plenty of next generation Timothy McVeighs residing in this country. It could happen again.
Don't worry. Fortunately, the FBI and every other federal agency in the country is devoting the vast majority of their resources to saving the world from the grave threat of white conservative males. Thank God for that. :notworthy:
What lie will they tell next?
Do it yourself independent analysis.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 12:41:50 PMQuote from: Groggy on October 18, 2023, 11:32:57 AMSpeaking of sleeper cells, lets not forget the deadliest terrorist attack in US history until 9/11 was committed by a white supremacist domestic terrorist. There are plenty of next generation Timothy McVeighs residing in this country. It could happen again.
Don't worry. Fortunately, the FBI and every other federal agency in the country is devoting the vast majority of their resources to saving the world from the grave threat of white conservative males. Thank God for that. :notworthy:
I'm sure you're being intentionally obtuse, but there's a pretty big difference between "white conservative males" and the domestic terrorists Groggy alluded to - which absolutely exist and just as much a threat to our society as foreign terrorists crossing our borders.
Just off hand, any time certain Twitter personalities tweet about grade schools daring to teach kids that gay and trans people exist, said schools receive bomb threats. That's not conservatism, that's domestic terrorism.
EDIT - Adding to this that it's not specifically a right-wing domestic terror thing. Leftist terrorists who threaten Christians, for example, are also just as much a threat as the latter two mentioned categories.
Quote from: al_infierno on October 18, 2023, 01:15:56 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 12:41:50 PMQuote from: Groggy on October 18, 2023, 11:32:57 AMSpeaking of sleeper cells, lets not forget the deadliest terrorist attack in US history until 9/11 was committed by a white supremacist domestic terrorist. There are plenty of next generation Timothy McVeighs residing in this country. It could happen again.
Don't worry. Fortunately, the FBI and every other federal agency in the country is devoting the vast majority of their resources to saving the world from the grave threat of white conservative males. Thank God for that. :notworthy:
I'm sure you're being intentionally obtuse, but there's a pretty big difference between "white conservative males" and the domestic terrorists Groggy alluded to - which absolutely exist and just as much a threat to our society as foreign terrorists crossing our borders.
Just off hand, any time certain Twitter personalities tweet about grade schools daring to teach kids that gay and trans people exist, said schools receive bomb threats. That's not conservatism, that's domestic terrorism.
EDIT - Adding to this that it's not specifically a right-wing domestic terror thing. Leftist terrorists who threaten Christians, for example, are also just as much a threat as the latter two mentioned categories.
Listen, Groggy took an opportunity to try to draw another false equivalency, like many in the media are doing to distract from the evil that is Hamas. Unfortunately, I fell for the bait. Let's stay focused on the actual and credible threats which are related to the ones that triggered the regional war that we're discussing in this thread, shall we?
With all the proof and logic in the world showing that rocket hitting the Gaza hospital was in fact a Hamas rocket...it still won't matter.
This is Hamas. The world must see so they cannot deny. That so many are in the streets around the world supporting this literally breaks my heart. I cannot wrap my mind around it.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 18, 2023, 10:56:12 AMIt only took 9 to pull-off 9/11. All were in country illegally as I recall. That's why I worry about Sleeper Cells.
unsurprisingly you're once again completely wrong. they all had passports and visas. 4 of them were going to flight school. two of them were even living with an FBI informant. I keep telling you to read more but you seem allergic to facts and accurate information.
There were also 19 hijackers, not 9.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announces-list-of-19-hijackers
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 03:15:28 PMThis is Hamas. The world must see so they cannot deny. That so many are in the streets around the world supporting this literally breaks my heart. I cannot wrap my mind around it.
that's probably the most shocking footage I've ever seen. I hope every single one of those animals die a horrible dearth.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 03:30:40 PMQuote from: Sir Slash on October 18, 2023, 10:56:12 AMIt only took 9 to pull-off 9/11. All were in country illegally as I recall. That's why I worry about Sleeper Cells.
unsurprisingly you're once again completely wrong. they all had passports and visas. 4 of them were going to flight school. two of them were even living with an FBI informant. I keep telling you to read more but you seem allergic to facts and accurate information.
...and you're also wrong. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read more?
Four of the hijackers passports survived in whole or in part. Two of the passports were clearly doctored and were manipulated in a fraudulent way. Fifteen of the hijackers passports did not survive. So firm factual statements cannot be made about them. Beginning in 1997, the 19 hijackers submitted 24 visa applications, 23 of which were granted. However, none were issued in the US and all of the applications were incomplete and/or contained demonstrably fraudulent information. All of the visas were tourist visas. none of them were changed to student visas. This is relevant for the student pilots who violated federal law by not applying for the change.
The director of the FBI testified that considered collectively, the 9/11 hijackers:
1. included among them known al Qaeda operatives who could have been watchlisted
2. presented passports "manipulated in a fraudulent manner"
3. Presented passports with "suspicious indicators" of extremism
4. Made detectable false statements on their visa applications
5. Were pulled out of the travel stream and given greater scrutiny by border officials
6. Made false statements to border officials to gain entry to the US
7. Violated immigration laws while inside the US.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8wGeUkWEAADUcH?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 03:52:40 PM..and you're also wrong. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read more?
fair enough
was this what you pulled up?
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/staff_statement_1.pdf
my point still stands that they had visas and were let in the country and didn't get here by crossing the Rio Grande.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 04:23:55 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 03:52:40 PM..and you're also wrong. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read more?
fair enough
was this what you pulled up?
https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/staff_statement_1.pdf
my point still stands that they had visas and were let in the country and didn't get here by crossing the Rio Grande.
One of a few sources I reviewed to get the full picture.
Bottom line for me is that there is no black and white in these things. There are no simple or basic answers. Its always complicated. Certainly true that they didn't cross the border, but when they came here, the border situation was entirely different, so your point, is both inconsequential and irrelevant.
The only simple thing for me is that Hamas is evil and it is so stunning to me that a mixture of academia and the media have managed to brainwash a substantial portion of nearly an entire generation into not seeing this simple unassailable truth.
this is supposedly the impact crater of the explosion that killed 500 people....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8tvgyiWoAAWqdM?format=jpg&name=medium)
^ Clearly those were 500 clowns packed into those burned out cars. The Palestinian comedy community may never recover...
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 04:29:33 PMso your point, is both inconsequential and irrelevant.
just responding to Slash about immigration in a thread about Israel because thats where someone drove the conversation... :whistle:
a more expanded view of the strike zone
the red VW in the lower right... seems like a pretty sturdy car!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8vf8_uWcAA6e6K?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 03:15:28 PMThis is Hamas. The world must see so they cannot deny. That so many are in the streets around the world supporting this literally breaks my heart. I cannot wrap my mind around it.
Shocking, barbaric, genocidal stuff. There are more videos of the Hamas terrorists attack that are much more gruesome and sickening. By comparison this video is on the tame side. It is an introduction video into the crimes against humanity committed by Hamas. Shocking.
Human Rights Watch report today accusing Hamas of war crimes on October 7th:
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1714762996868698603?t=wrxgAYTz87RSfK1QqjSnqw&s=19
So the body count is also totally fabricated at the Gaza hospital scene?
I read the hospital reported 3 injuries. but who knows.
and HRW is about as much of a joke as the UN human rights committee.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 07:50:14 PMand HRW is about as much of a joke as the UN human rights committee.
Yeah, you have a point there. Back in 2012, the then HRW executive director Ken Roth accepted a donation of almost half a million dollars from a Saudi real estate tycoon with the condition that the money could not be used to support the group's LGBT advocacy in the Middle East and North Africa. This is the same real estate tycoon that HRW accepted the donation from who was accused of worker abuse. The donation was eventually returned but still not...great.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 18, 2023, 12:41:50 PMDon't worry. Fortunately, the FBI and every other federal agency in the country is devoting the vast majority of their resources to saving the world from the grave threat of white conservative males. Thank God for that. :notworthy:
Ok. I didn't bring up the grave threat of white conservative males. You did. I would highly recommend reading Kathleen Belew's Bring the War Home.
Jarhead, the stuff we're seeing here is really tragic. It's hard for all of us to deal with.
But if you think that injecting local American domestic politics into this thread--here and now--serves a constructive purpose for this community, you should go ahead and open up the R&P forums and post things like that there.
Ok, So 19 Hijackers not 9. My, 'One' key is busted. :grin: But I believe all of the visa's for the hijackers were expired and so they should've been deported but clearly weren't. Back then they couldn't have gotten away with crossing illegally into the country because they would have been caught and sent back. Today all any of them would have to do is claim Refugee Status and they would be allowed in with a Court Date in infinity. Almost 2 million Got-Aways in the past 3 years according to the Border Patrol would lead any sensible person to conclude there could be army of terrorists living in Star's FEMA Trailer right now. :HideEyes: Add-in One Hundred Thousand deaths last year from Phetanol Poisoning, all smuggled across the non-secured Southern Border by the Mexican Drug Cartels, and you've got the Decline and Fall of The American Republic.
This is why I play games, Reality is too real for me.
I cant wait for you to provide link to those stats.
heres a stat for you, the vast majority of fentanyl comes into the US through ports.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/addressing-mexicos-role-in-the-us-fentanyl-epidemic/
here are some fun quotes since you dont read:
Quotesome 90% of fentanyl seizures occur in legal points of entry.
QuoteMexican cartels predominantly hire U.S. citizens to smuggle drugs across the border; U.S. citizens represent more then 85% of those convicted of fentanyl charges.
but you enjoy your fox fueled crisis.
now stop derailing this thread.
you guys worry about sleeper cells ?
the first minister of scottland Humza Yousaf
(who is humping a Palestine-offspring women btw , and so his mother in law is trapped in Gaza on family vistits ) ask for a refugee scheme and want to build a Gaza in Scotland, Europe and elsewhere :doh:
https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1714602956857757706
and here are his Hamas ties history
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/scottish-first-minister-hopeful-humza-yousaf-met-former-hamas-chief-6FYnnRGZMqczibvhaAqnpB
We probably need a separate thread (with posts moved or copied there where topically appropriate) for border security tactical and operational implications.
And whatever else tends to get imported with that discussion.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 18, 2023, 11:10:47 PMbut you enjoy your fox fueled crisis.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1714932842902552595
I was listening to an interview on National Public Radio this morning, where they had a panel of American-Israelis talking about the plight. One of the participants was a retired Professor of Middle Eastern studies at Brandeis who was in Israel right now and not opting to take shelter in his house's bomb shelter. His explanation: "We are actually hosting a remembrance for my daughter and son-in-law who died at last week's music festival, and we have so many guests that there is no room for me in our shelter. I'm just being a generous host."
What was striking to me was how nuanced their perspectives were. One told the story of a Palestinian-born paramedic who was at the music festival. When shots started happening and people were fleeing, he headed toward the sound of shooting , because he knew people would be treated. I inferred from the comments that he was subsequently killed.
Another was talking about how complicated things are for those living in Israel. One of them said something to the effect of, "There are good people of every kind in this region, and we can't forget about them. If we start treating all Palestinians like they are Hamas, we'll have adopted Hamas' worldview. That will mean victory for them."
All of them agreed that Hamas must pay.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 18, 2023, 10:56:12 AMIt only took 9 to pull-off 9/11. All were in country illegally as I recall. That's why I worry about Sleeper Cells.
I don't know whether they overstayed their visa, but they did not come in illegally. They had student visa. I'm sure Wikipedia will have the details.
ETA: didn't read the previous replies to this post
Quote from: Redwolf on October 19, 2023, 01:26:11 PMI don't know whether they overstayed their visa, but they did not come in illegally. They had student visa. I'm sure Wikipedia will have the details.
I really don't want to get involved in this because as we see with the hospital bombing, facts and data are far less persuasive than personal biases.
I'll just leave this and hope we get off the subject...
"This policy analysis identifies 219 foreign‐�born terrorists in the United States who killed 3,046 people in attacks on U.S. soil from 1975 through the end of 2022. Nine of them were illegal immigrants; 70 were lawful permanent residents; 22 were students; 1 entered on a K‑1 fiancé(e) visa; 28 were refugees; 13 were asylum seekers; 44 were tourists on various visas; 14 were from Visa Waiver Program countries; 1 entered on an A‑2 visa for government business or military training; and 1 was on an H‑1B visa for skilled temporary foreign workers. The visas for the remaining 16 terrorists could not be determined. During that period, the chance of being murdered by a foreign‐�born terrorist on U.S. soil was 1 in 4,338,984 a year. The annual chance of being murdered by someone other than a foreign‐�born terrorist in a normal homicide was more than 316 times greater than the chance of dying in a foreign‐�born terrorist's attack." - Cato Institute
Light reading for those that want to analyze data before making decisions..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7926034/
https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/terrorism-immigration#introduction
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0049089X20301101
https://www.cfr.org/blog/southern-border-poses-terrorism-risks-homegrown-threats-still-loom-larger
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://whanchoi.people.uic.edu/Does-Restrictive-Immigration-Policy-Reduce-Terrorism-in-Western-Democracies.pdf
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-world-more-say-immigrants-are-a-strength-than-a-burden/
Quote from: MikeGER on October 19, 2023, 05:25:40 AMyou guys worry about sleeper cells ?
the first minister of scottland Humza Yousaf
(who is humping a Palestine-offspring women btw , and so his mother in law is trapped in Gaza on family vistits ) ask for a refugee scheme and want to build a Gaza in Scotland, Europe and elsewhere :doh:
https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1714602956857757706
and here are his Hamas ties history
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/scottish-first-minister-hopeful-humza-yousaf-met-former-hamas-chief-6FYnnRGZMqczibvhaAqnpB
Technically he is correct - there needs to be a better solution to refugees than just sitting in few countries with pending asylum trials.
Of course nobody wants the population of Gaza which did (probably) vote for Hamas in a majority.
Quote from: Redwolf on October 19, 2023, 01:41:27 PMOf course nobody wants the population of Gaza which did (probably) vote for Hamas in a majority.
I believe the median age in Gaza is rougly 19, so most of the current population wouldn't have been voting age or even born yet when Hamas came to power.
MikeGER, if anybody on this board were to use the phrase "who is humping a Jewish-offspring woman BTW" they'd be promptly drawn and quartered.
I think it's fair to question the motives of any public figure, but if we don't use the same standards for how we refer to folks of all the different races, we end up being racist ourselves.
the US Navy, feeling bored, decided to shoot down some missiles and drones today.
:intrepidphasers:
Hamas has Explosively Formed Projectiles: https://www.businessinsider.com/captured-hamas-weapons-israel-face-efp-ieds-terrified-us-iraq-2023-10 The article states that the Hamas munitions are produced locally.
However, I don't think people need to be reminded that Iran introduced these in Iraq to be used against US and allied troops. The assassinated Iranian General Soleimani was attributed with the distribution of these weapons to Shia militias.
If a shooting war with Iran starts, it will be very likely that Iran resorts to terrorism, including trying to infiltrate terrorists into countries. If war with Iran doesn't start, it will be unlikely that they resort to terrorism, not wanting to provoke. Actions by proxies are a different matter.
Iran entering the fray?
OK. Temp Off-Topic reply to the Border Security issue we're not supposed to talk about here. Most Fentanyl comes in through Ports of Entry: Well known for some time now...by Mexican Drug Cartels. Mexican Drug Cartels use legal citizens to smuggle it in: Key word here is, "SMUGGLE" which is against the law and...done by Mexican Drug Cartels. Previous post listed, "Border Patrol" as source of numbers, did you miss that?
Solution: Ask anyone working for the Border Patrol or I.C.E. Hint: They work for the Federal Govt. NOT FOX News. I now return you to your MSNBC Fueled False Reality. :ROFL:
Please, let's rein it in.
:nono2:
Well, whoever launched those drones or whatever toward Israel that we shot down in the Red Sea (could have been one of a few south-coast Arabian nations, and I'll bet western intel knows EXACTLY who by now), they probably didn't do it by their own initiative.
QuoteJudith and Natalie Raanan, the American citizens who were kidnapped and held hostage by Hamas and were released earlier today. This picture was taken minutes after they crossed the border to Israel
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F86Mym8WgAAigOt?format=jpg&name=medium)
^Awesome.
I'm guessing the guy in between them with the ballistic vest is a family member of theirs, possible a father/uncle? Looks like he's got all of Hell's wrath behind those eyes.
I can think of a lot of valid reasons that Israel hasn't stormed into Gaza yet. one of the best byproducts of the delay is letting pure vengeance boil off a bit.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 20, 2023, 06:47:40 PMI can think of a lot of valid reasons that Israel hasn't stormed into Gaza yet. one of the best byproducts of the delay is letting pure vengeance boil off a bit.
Cooling off is a valid reason.
The most valid reason though is the military reality.
Israel's ground forces arrayed for the attack may not be sufficient to succeed in their objectives.
Hamas has been training and preparing the strip for more than a decade. There are underground networks, escape routes, strong points and Hamas has very heavily trained its troops.
Israel needs to employ a significant force to be able to take the strip. The last time they pushed in they got a bloody nose compared to what they had expected.
They have to employ sufficient force to endure significant casualties in urban warfare and still keep their borders secure.
That's not an easy task from a military point of view.
unfortunately there is a real clock ticking here with that many people under arms and not working and keeping the country going.
image from Sderot of recent impacts from two barrages of rockets earlier this evening from Gaza.
where have I seen this kind of crater before? :rolleyes:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F86N2x8WEAApN_j?format=jpg&name=large)
hummus reports that 2630 palestinians died from this IDF bunker buster.
i stick to my Bible those troubled days :Hug:
Amos1:7 So I will send down fire upon the wall of Gaza,
and it will devour their fortified citadels
:grin:
Quote from: MikeGER on October 21, 2023, 04:46:56 AMi stick to my Bible those troubled days :Hug:
Amos1:7 So I will send down fire upon the wall of Gaza,
and it will devour their fortified citadels
:grin:
Christian Zionism says what?
another day around Avdiivka
https://twitter.com/i/status/1715762924088615286
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 21, 2023, 11:29:56 AManother day around Avdiivka
https://twitter.com/i/status/1715762924088615286
Wrong thread, bro. It's definitely becoming hard to keep our wars apart. Just wait until Taiwan Invasion kicks off.
:embarrassed:
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 21, 2023, 11:32:02 AMJust wait until Taiwan Invasion kicks off.
the Navy seems to be actively practicing for that now in the Red Sea.
pretty much sums it up
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8-47nkWMAAq4sN?format=jpg&name=medium)
Provoking external crises can be a good way to distract people from internal failings. Going after the Little Satan (Israel) via proxies is a great way to get the Great Satan (US) involved, which will keep the Iranian regime in power for a while longer.
But an Iranian invasion of Israel would be downright stupid. Not only because Israel could likely kick their butt, but also because even if they couldn't, the US probably would get involved.
I strongly suspect that the Israelis have had nukes for a couple decades now, but are saving them for existential threats. We all know that the Iranians are getting nukes sometime very soon (if they don't already have some via illicit channels).
There are a couple key assumptions that make nuclear deterrents work in a Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) scenario. Virtually none of those necessarily hold true in the Middle East. I shudder to think what even a limited nuclear exchange (maybe 10 or 15 warheads on each side) would do. :embarrassed:
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on October 21, 2023, 05:04:59 PMI strongly suspect that the Israelis have had nukes for a couple decades now
Wikipedia sez you're correct, they're believed to have completed their first deliverable nuke around 1967.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
Quote from: al_infierno on October 21, 2023, 05:18:00 PMWikipedia sez you're correct, they're believed to have completed their first deliverable nuke around 1967.
They were prepared to use them during the Yom Kippur war. If Egypt had broken through they were going to. Clancy used a nuke that got loose in that conflict as a plot for Sum of All Fears.
just loving the flood of anti-semitism online right now.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 21, 2023, 06:35:33 PMjust loving the flood of anti-semitism online right now.
I'm loving the flood of antisemitism in the US Congress.
It's really incredible that folks are more agitated at people standing up to apartheid and genocide than they are at overt anti-semitism being mainstreamed by wealthy figures like Musk.
It's heartbreaking.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9BGI1maYAARjA9?format=jpg&name=large)
From six years ago: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4584520/Jewish-nurse-breastfeeds-Palestinian-baby-boy.html
Since 2013: https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-israel-has-treated-over-2600-wounded-syrians/
It's not just historical, the Israeli Bedouin arguing with the BBC Arabic announcer speaks of injured Palestinians in Israeli hospitals.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 16, 2023, 12:05:10 AMhttps://twitter.com/i/status/1713575620507009313
What an evil way to repay goodness.
Israeli army releases footage of first operational use of 'Iron Sting' munition destroying rocket launcher (https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-army-releases-footage-first-operational-use-iron-sting-munition-destroying-rocket-launcher)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1715945361347318228
Quote from: steve58 on October 22, 2023, 03:30:42 PMIsraeli army releases footage of first operational use of 'Iron Sting' munition destroying rocket launcher (https://www.foxnews.com/world/israeli-army-releases-footage-first-operational-use-iron-sting-munition-destroying-rocket-launcher)
I hope for the Ground campaign the IDF has a lot of unseen hightech toys we are not much aware of at the moment :ThumbsUp:
i have seen older vids of small birdlike drones, and robots that were thrown in a room, unfold and can climb stairs too, medium size remote vehicles with an MG used by military, and a common Spot robot is even in use with German Police in my state
now imagine what still clandestine and testbed stuff the IDF has for tunnels and CQB
https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1716156227585974585
Hhhmmm, maybe both should be targets?? :headscratch:
Quote from: MikeGER on October 23, 2023, 07:10:10 AMI hope for the Ground campaign the IDF has a lot of unseen hightech toys we are not much aware of at the moment :ThumbsUp:
i have seen older vids of small birdlike drones, and robots that were thrown in a room, unfold and can climb stairs too, medium size remote vehicles with an MG used by military, and a common Spot robot is even in use with German Police in my state
now imagine what still clandestine and testbed stuff the IDF has for tunnels and CQB
Hamas would know from the moment a robot crawls inside. The tunnels were built to defend. There could be sensors that trigger an alarm and CCTV cameras that can allocate such as a robot and define if it's for ISR purposes or a kamikaze robot that will blow up once it encounters the militants. Tunnel warfare is never easy. Troops simulate a tunnel based on what they have discovered before and act as if it is the reality they will face, but it is not. It's a simulation for something they have never seen and don't have experience in combat, nor won a battle inside one of them. What awaits the Israeli forces is the unknown, and those who built the tunnels know how to fight inside them.
I'd like to think that the 2000 lb jadams being used are collapsing those very same tunnels.
I've seen more then a few videos of a building taking a hit and every manhole cover up the street explodes.
Quote from: Groggy on October 23, 2023, 11:19:43 PMHamas would know from the moment a robot crawls inside. The tunnels were built to defend. There could be sensors that trigger an alarm and CCTV cameras that can allocate such as a robot and define if it's for ISR purposes or a kamikaze robot that will blow up once it encounters the militants. Tunnel warfare is never easy. Troops simulate a tunnel based on what they have discovered before and act as if it is the reality they will face, but it is not. It's a simulation for something they have never seen and don't have experience in combat, nor won a battle inside one of them. What awaits the Israeli forces is the unknown, and those who built the tunnels know how to fight inside them.
of couse a remote ISR device trigger alarm. But did it also trigger the right conclusions? :grin:
and this is just an year old cheep OSINT China toy, now estimate what an IDF 'DARPA' thing could do to find the hostages dungeons
We dont want to drop a GBU-57A/B on the wrong spot, or at the wrong moment
I read somewhere that generators are required to vent air into the tunnels. Generators powered by diesel. Take the diesel away and the vermin will be forced to the surface for lack of air.
Quote from: MikeGER on October 24, 2023, 03:32:37 AMand this is just an year old cheep OSINT China toy, now estimate what an IDF 'DARPA' thing could do to find the hostages dungeons
"SEND THE ROBOT LOCUSTS OVER TO GAZA FOR A CHANGE!" -- North Korea :evil:
Anti-semitism has been on the rise in the USA for a while now. Without in any way meaning to make light of the problem, I think it's been on the rise even faster than anti-everything-else-ism. As is the case with a lot of such intolerance, much of it is "dog whistle racism" these days.
Of course, not all calls for Israeli restraint or for an end to US unqualified military assistance to Israel represents anti-semitism. There is widespread debate on what Israel can do that won't create as many problems as it solves. There is also the age-old "ends versus the means" debate that has been around for thousands of years. Lastly, there is also widespread debate about whether Palestinian civilians are willing supporters of Hamas, or simply terrified bystanders afraid of getting killed themselves.
The truth in all of these things is probably somewhere in the middle, but I do not know enough to say with much confidence where it is.
All of which makes it more likely to get heat than light when we discuss what the path forward should be. I'm all for a path forward that tries to strike a balance between eliminating Hamas, safeguarding Israeli military lives, and trying not to harm Palestinian innocents. As is the case in so much low-intensity conflict, it will be pretty easy (militarily) for the Israelis to go in but much harder (politically) for them to achieve what they want to after they go in.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on October 24, 2023, 03:05:43 PMAnti-semitism has been on the rise in the USA for a while now. Without in any way meaning to make light of the problem, I think it's been on the rise even faster than anti-everything-else-ism. As is the case with a lot of such intolerance, much of it is "dog whistle racism" these days.
Of course, not all calls for Israeli restraint or for an end to US unqualified military assistance to Israel represents anti-semitism. There is widespread debate on what Israel can do that won't create as many problems as it solves. There is also the age-old "ends versus the means" debate that has been around for thousands of years. Lastly, there is also widespread debate about whether Palestinian civilians are willing supporters of Hamas, or simply terrified bystanders afraid of getting killed themselves.
The truth in all of these things is probably somewhere in the middle, but I do not know enough to say with much confidence where it is.
All of which makes it more likely to get heat than light when we discuss what the path forward should be. I'm all for a path forward that tries to strike a balance between eliminating Hamas, safeguarding Israeli military lives, and trying not to harm Palestinian innocents. As is the case in so much low-intensity conflict, it will be pretty easy (militarily) for the Israelis to go in but much harder (politically) for them to achieve what they want to after they go in.
Correction...antisemitism is on the rise around the world, not just in the United States. It seems to be just about everywhere.
I agree that calls for Israeli restraint and questions over the US economic and military backing of Israel are not always, in and of themselves, antisemitic, and the debate on these issues is important. However, I think any discussion on these issues that isn't antisemitic must start with the acknowledgement that Israel does show tremendous restraint, does expose itself to risk by engaging in measures aimed at reducing unnecessary collateral damage and that Palestinian civilian losses are largely driven by the nature of Hamas strategy which purposely puts its own civilians in harms way with the express intent of causing large casualty counts.
In order to win, all Hamas needs to do is survive long enough for there to be enough destruction that the rest of the world forces Israel to disengage. It truly is an almost impossible military situation for Israel in my view.
Also don't forget the requirement that Israel does have a right to exist...which many states and non-states around the world do not acknowledge.
Quote from: Gusington on October 24, 2023, 03:55:48 PMAlso don't forget the requirement that Israel does have a right to exist...which many states and non-states around the world do not acknowledge.
Yes. Very true. Especially when they say things like, "Free Palestine" and "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!". People don't seem to stop and think exactly what that means...and if they do, and still say it, that is even more troubling.
Quote from: W8taminute on October 24, 2023, 09:33:01 AMI read somewhere that generators are required to vent air into the tunnels. Generators powered by diesel. Take the diesel away and the vermin will be forced to the surface for lack of air.
The news reported that food and medicine was sent into Gaza at the Egyptian crossing but not fuel. Israel allegedly does not want fuel to go in with other aid. If Hamas needs fuel for generators to keep lights and air on in their tunnels this makes sense. With Israel's SIGINT capabilities they are probably intercepting Hamas discussions about the situation in the tunnels.
I now expect a lot of reporting about how fuel is critically needed for hospital generators. Power for incubators is gone, innocent children and babies will die unless fuel is sent now... Unfortunate that if fuel is sent it will be used by Hamas.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on October 24, 2023, 03:05:43 PMAs is the case in so much low-intensity conflict,
what low intensity conflict?
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on October 24, 2023, 04:41:02 PMI now expect a lot of reporting about how fuel is critically needed for hospital generators. Power for incubators is gone, innocent children and babies will die unless fuel is sent now... Unfortunate that if fuel is sent it will be used by Hamas.
and this is the problem that gets blamed on Israel. the world ignores the fact that hamas will use anything they can for themselves first while blaming Israel for all their problems. it sucks to say it but either way those babies are dead and 100% hamas's fault.
not that that will matter in the worlds ignorant opinion.
I was gonna type that this 'conflict looks pretty high intensity to me.' And once the IDF goes into Gaza it will be extremely high intensity urban fighting.
Quote from: Gusington on October 24, 2023, 03:55:48 PMAlso don't forget the requirement that Israel does have a right to exist...which many states and non-states around the world do not acknowledge.
The Palestinian, Israeli situation if often talked about as if it was basically about the land. Land for peace etc. But it is also about the existence of a Jewish state. I admit I did not appreciate this fact until this last week or so. In this light, the genocidal actions by Hamas on October 7th make more sense. Hamas, their supporters, apologists etc have no plans to live side by side with any Jewish state. Ever. Period.
This probably doesn't leave Israel with a lot of choices in what must be done. The tactics of how it is done but not the end state.
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on October 24, 2023, 04:41:02 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 24, 2023, 09:33:01 AMI read somewhere that generators are required to vent air into the tunnels. Generators powered by diesel. Take the diesel away and the vermin will be forced to the surface for lack of air.
The news reported that food and medicine was sent into Gaza at the Egyptian crossing but not fuel. Israel allegedly does not want fuel to go in with other aid. If Hamas needs fuel for generators to keep lights and air on in their tunnels this makes sense. With Israel's SIGINT capabilities they are probably intercepting Hamas discussions about the situation in the tunnels.
I now expect a lot of reporting about how fuel is critically needed for hospital generators. Power for incubators is gone, innocent children and babies will die unless fuel is sent now... Unfortunate that if fuel is sent it will be used by Hamas.
IDF says Hamas is sitting on 500,000+ liters of fuel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas
Quote from: steve58 on October 24, 2023, 06:06:20 PMQuote from: MOS:96B2P on October 24, 2023, 04:41:02 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 24, 2023, 09:33:01 AMI read somewhere that generators are required to vent air into the tunnels. Generators powered by diesel. Take the diesel away and the vermin will be forced to the surface for lack of air.
The news reported that food and medicine was sent into Gaza at the Egyptian crossing but not fuel. Israel allegedly does not want fuel to go in with other aid. If Hamas needs fuel for generators to keep lights and air on in their tunnels this makes sense. With Israel's SIGINT capabilities they are probably intercepting Hamas discussions about the situation in the tunnels.
I now expect a lot of reporting about how fuel is critically needed for hospital generators. Power for incubators is gone, innocent children and babies will die unless fuel is sent now... Unfortunate that if fuel is sent it will be used by Hamas.
IDF says Hamas is sitting on 500,000+ liters of fuel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas
The linked article includes a photo of fuel tanks. If these are Hamas fuel tanks the IDF must be intentionally avoiding hitting them. I wonder what that's about.
restraint if its true.
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on October 24, 2023, 06:36:38 PMQuote from: steve58 on October 24, 2023, 06:06:20 PMQuote from: MOS:96B2P on October 24, 2023, 04:41:02 PMQuote from: W8taminute on October 24, 2023, 09:33:01 AMI read somewhere that generators are required to vent air into the tunnels. Generators powered by diesel. Take the diesel away and the vermin will be forced to the surface for lack of air.
The news reported that food and medicine was sent into Gaza at the Egyptian crossing but not fuel. Israel allegedly does not want fuel to go in with other aid. If Hamas needs fuel for generators to keep lights and air on in their tunnels this makes sense. With Israel's SIGINT capabilities they are probably intercepting Hamas discussions about the situation in the tunnels.
I now expect a lot of reporting about how fuel is critically needed for hospital generators. Power for incubators is gone, innocent children and babies will die unless fuel is sent now... Unfortunate that if fuel is sent it will be used by Hamas.
IDF says Hamas is sitting on 500,000+ liters of fuel.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas
The linked article includes a photo of fuel tanks. If these are Hamas fuel tanks the IDF must be intentionally avoiding hitting them. I wonder what that's about.
PR. If the oil is there and purposely being withheld by Hamas from supplying civilian services, then it is Hamas who is depriving the people. If, on the other hand, Israel destroys it, then it is they who are depriving the people. The oil has greater strategic value to Israel just sitting there in reserve, than if they destroyed it.
...and in addition the (now dug in?) depot is near the Rafah crossing.
the tremendous fire/fireball and unhealthy plume of smoke could impair Egyptian personal and large flogs of civilians loitering there (many with foreign citizenship too, who wait get allowed throug the crossing)
last but not least, stuff could flow into the Mediteranien sea, Israel inflicted oilspill - that is the headline enemyies friendly media are just waiting for.
-edit-
google earth picture from 5/12/22 shows depot is not covered with dirt and only 50m ! from the Egyptian border and about 1.2 klicks North of the crossing
after attacks on US military forces in the Middle East lately the Commandant of the Marines had this to say.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1716987125030113586
^That's a lot of brass. I'd take him at his word.
Does not feel like 40 years have past.
Quote from: Gusington on October 25, 2023, 09:12:45 AMDoes not feel like 40 years have past.
look at your hairline. :Hug:
I don't have one.
exactly!
and mine is mostly silver now.
and the 6 pack of abs I used to have has coalesced into 1. :embarrassed:
My beard grows in silver. Damn :ninjameditate:
1983 was just yesterday.
its behind a paywall but the New York Times is still pushing that the hospital rocket came from Israel. :doh:
at what point in time did the NYT become a shitty newspaper?
Quote from: Gusington on October 25, 2023, 10:12:39 AMI don't have one.
On the upside, if there are holes in your pant pockets you could rub your fingers through your hair.
so thin happened in Israel in 1983:
The NYTimes became shitty probably 20 years ago.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 10:48:51 AMits behind a paywall but the New York Times is still pushing that the hospital rocket came from Israel. :doh:
at what point in time did the NYT become a shitty newspaper?
Their Editors note on the matter says that the NYT will continue to report Hamas claims that Israel struck the hospital as their claim without editorializing on the truth of it.
The editors have said they also are covering that Hamas has so far failed to make their case.
Haven't seen the article you mentioned in question because, well, paywall.
I'm also highly annoyed with the re-reporting of hamas claims of over 5000 dead palis over half of which are supposedly women and children. because lets take the word of a terrorist regime. :Loser:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 12:44:53 PMI'm also highly annoyed with the re-reporting of hamas claims of over 5000 dead palis over half of which are supposedly women and children. because lets take the word of a terrorist regime. :Loser:
...and then you have members of US Congress spreading these same lies...their presence within the halls of the Capital is extremely offensive.
Congress if full of scumbags.
would you like my list? :coolsmiley:
Don't forget the UN.
Aljazeera' s brave veteran journalist Wael Dahdouh's wife, son and daughter were killed in an Israeli airstrike which targeted a shelter house they had fled to. Wael received the news while on air covering the nonstop Israeli strikes on Gaza!
https://twitter.com/moawady/status/1717229166712836271?t=xaZZ7HOV6q_VdenK4o5Wuw&s=19
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 01:13:11 PMCongress if full of scumbags.
would you like my list? :coolsmiley:
No, because I know it's most likely biased.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 25, 2023, 03:26:47 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 01:13:11 PMCongress if full of scumbags.
would you like my list? :coolsmiley:
No, because I know it's most likely biased.
How about the scumbag that ousted a perfectly good and functioning speaker Macarthy and sent congress into nonfunctioning turmoil for no reason ? Is that biased ?
just google Cooper Union news
jesus fucking christ!
Quote from: Skoop on October 25, 2023, 06:01:42 PMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on October 25, 2023, 03:26:47 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 01:13:11 PMCongress if full of scumbags.
would you like my list? :coolsmiley:
No, because I know it's most likely biased.
How about the scumbag that ousted a perfectly good and functioning speaker Macarthy and sent congress into nonfunctioning turmoil for no reason ? Is that biased ?
Actually, yes. And whether I agree with it or not, it doesn't belong in this thread.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 06:39:15 PMjust google Cooper Union news
jesus fucking christ!
Man...I wish I had been there. I hate it when Jews allow themselves to be victimized.
Damn man, that Cooper Union thing is totally f'd up. And in NYC no less :hair:
Trying to remain calm.
Look how the cowards run and hide when confronted by an armed combatant, as opposed to defenseless women and babies.
Quote from: Groggy on October 25, 2023, 02:41:34 PMAljazeera' s brave veteran journalist Wael Dahdouh's wife, son and daughter were killed in an Israeli airstrike which targeted a shelter house they had fled to. Wael received the news while on air covering the nonstop Israeli strikes on Gaza!
https://twitter.com/moawady/status/1717229166712836271?t=xaZZ7HOV6q_VdenK4o5Wuw&s=19
On one hand that's a hideous tragedy, and one of hundreds and thousands so far.
On the other hand, I doubt Israel targeted it as a shelter house per se.
Im more and more fine with the IDF going full Dresden on gaza.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 09:07:30 PMIm more and more fine with the IDF going full Dresden on gaza.
well, this is an insult to the 25 000 - 350 000 war crime victims (numbers depending on which propaganda you like to follow) of 4 air raids in just 40 hours with a summed up yield of about 3.98 kt (blast and incendiary)
compared to that, Gaza is (still) just plinking
check out those secondaries :magnify:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717547749258699185
the vid is claimed to be from Khan Yunis, doesnt look all to devasted from that angle
^Hamas will claim the secondaries are the result of innocent women and children exploding in a hospital.
they blow up so young these days
https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20231026-iran-s-revolutionary-guard-recruits-volunteers-to-fight-in-gaza
The Iranian government is trying to recruit volunteers to fight in Gaza. This idea is not popular at all with anti-regime Iranians exampled by:
QuoteThe Iranian regime's anti-Israel rhetoric has even found its way into the Friday prayers. The prayers are attended by the government's hardliners, and are often followed by chants of "Death to Israel" in addition to the customary "Death to America" and "Death to Britain".
"These slogans are chanted automatically and are now a part of the Iranian regime's discourse. But a lot of Iranians see them as meaningless and turn them around during anti-regime protests, calling instead for the death of, not Israel nor the United States, but of the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei," Piron said.
...a photograph of a young Iranian woman jumping over the Israeli flag to avoid stepping on it also started to make the rounds on social media.
Une Iranienne saute par-dessus le drapeau d'Israël posé par terre dans une rue de Téhéran pour éviter de le piétiner. pic.twitter.com/kj49BQRdYm
— lettres de Teheran (@LettresTeheran) October 20, 2023
Piron described the woman's refusal to trample on the flag as a "a strong symbol, especially as it comes at a time when Israeli and American flags are being painted on the ground in front of some Iranian public buildings, forcing pedestrians to walk on them".
The old propaganda tactics is losing traction these days due to "a growing mistrust among the population", explained Piron.
Over the past few years, Piron notes, anti-regime demonstrators have also begun to criticise the government's international expenditures, demanding that the money spent on operations in Syria and Lebanon and sponsoring Hamas should instead be spent on the Iranian people struggling to make ends meet amid an economic crisis.
Best of all is:
QuoteSince the death of Mahsa Amini in September last year, tensions between pro- and anti-regime Iranians have increased, and have in some cases spilled over into public displays of anger against the government's support of Hamas. On October 8, during a football match between Persepolis and Gol Gohar in Tehran, hundreds of football fans openly protested when operatives of the Revolutionary Guards started to wave Palestinian flags on the pitch.
« Met le drapeau palestinien dans ton c.. » scandent des supporters du club de foot Persepolis en voyant des pro- regime agiter ce drapeau dans le stade. Une réaction qui exprime le raz le bol d'une partie de la population face au soutien total du régime islamique au Hamas. pic.twitter.com/F74X8WP7J8
— lettres de Teheran (@LettresTeheran) October 8, 2023
The polite translation of the French is the club supporters telling the RG what to do with the Palestinian flag when they started waving it around. A reaction explaining how fed up the population is with the regimes total support of Hamas.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717630939545715040
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/20908
Inglorious bastards 2023
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 09:07:30 PMIm more and more fine with the IDF going full Dresden on gaza.
By that logic, you don't give a damn about the 200+ hostages.
Quote from: Groggy on October 26, 2023, 10:31:57 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on October 25, 2023, 09:07:30 PMIm more and more fine with the IDF going full Dresden on gaza.
By that logic, you don't give a damn about the 200+ hostages.
Or the insane demographic disaster of the Gaza strip that has entered into a demographic collapse that resulted in the strip being 40 percent children, and of that 40 percent being a high percentage under 9 years old.
And yeah I say what I say about the above but I also say this...
Quote from: Groggy on October 26, 2023, 10:31:57 PMBy that logic, you don't give a damn about the 200+ hostages.
sure I do. ya ever walk and chew gum at the same time?
I just don't see how the IDF roots out hamas without taking tons of casualties unless they just pummel gaza for a month and then go in. no matter what they do Israel eats a political shit sandwich and I care way more about the Israelis then I do about the palestinians. orders of magnitude more.
nice secondaries again ...and an extra juicy target (that why they probably used 2 bombs)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717563507019812894
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 26, 2023, 10:38:25 PMOr the insane demographic disaster of the Gaza strip that has entered into a demographic collapse that resulted in the strip being 40 percent children, and of that 40 percent being a high percentage under 9 years old.
That is what I don't get.
If Gaza (and other refugee camps in the area too) are an openair prison since 17 years and such a hellish place, why are they able (child mortality rate) and especially willing! to reproduce like flies?
why are man and women still biological fertil if the living conditions are as bad as claimed?
which reponsible parents want to have an additional child if they know they can't even support the existing one?
Well, maybe cause the UN and EU had pumped millions in relief efforts into the place.... and in the end just to breed an even larger generation of islamists fodder to get indoctrinated in UN financed schools ...the new HJ = Hamas Youth?
(https://bilder2.n-tv.de/img/incoming/crop24489941/1921328435-cImg_16_9-w1200/GazaKinder.jpg)
https://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/videos/politik/Gazas-Kinder-lernen-Hass-und-Terror-auch-an-UN-Schulen-article24489872.html
Good analysis of the hospital "strike".
Another incursion into Gaza.
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/october-27-israel-hamas-war
Israel launches second ground incursion into Gaza, Hamas commander killed in airstrike
Israel launched a second brief incursion into Gaza overnight Thursday with ground troops supported by fighter jets and drones as the war against Hamas continues. IDF struck anti-tank missile launch sites, command and control centers and Hamas operatives, the military said. These ground incursions come ahead of an expected invasion of Gaza in a war that has already cost more than 8,000 people on both sides.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717940209227083814
^That...was awesome.
the northern strip of gaza right now:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9eGq0nWoAAqQAP?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9eGq1JWkAABb6J?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9eGq0pXMAEhCVV?format=jpg&name=medium)
buckle up boys and girls, we get to learn the names of all new places!
at least after 20 years of the GWOT these are easier to pronounce.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9eD5VGXMAAH64N?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717933878407463385
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 02:32:08 PMhttps://twitter.com/i/status/1717940209227083814
This type of behavior is not limited to NY but also all over the world. I see a lot of videos online of pro Hamas-ISIS-Nazi people tearing down posters of innocent victims, especially babies. This simple act betrays a wickedness I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. We were all taught at a very young age at my school that anti-Semitism is a bad thing yet here we are in the supposed civilized 21st century.
In my eyes these people are also terrorists.
Also in response to the question in another thread regarding that we're living in safe times you've got to be kidding me. Can you not all see that the world's major players are sending military forces to the middle east. WW3 is at the door.
I'm sorry for the rant but what I see happening in the world is not to be taken lightly.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 03:31:40 PMhttps://twitter.com/i/status/1717933878407463385
I saw that too. Supposedly the Houthis in Yemem fired something towards Eilat. USN Arleigh Burke destroyers failed to intercept so IAF jets were scrambled. The drones/missle whatever it was landed in Egypt.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 02:32:08 PMhttps://twitter.com/i/status/1717940209227083814
I concur with Gus. That is awesome.
As an aside: The New York accent of the guy calling out the pro-terrorist guy makes the video nearly perfect....
I'll dig for more videos of people standing up to this trash. I know there out there because I've viewed them already.
one way to clear a block and everything underneath it.
if you go frame by from all explosions happen in the streets or building fronts.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717875154238198181
like this:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717972005243306468
^Ordinarily this is where I would start to get a bleeding heart and feel for whoever is on the receiving end of that.
Not this time.
the people on the receiving end of that are hamas fucks in the tunnels.
and I found a longer video while searching for the other ones.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717935965472199062
well, not that much longer.
^That is the neighborhood my Dad lives in. I knew it looked familiar. I used to be there all the time.
I would die laughing if I found video of your dad beating ass.
'ol man Gus
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/gran-torino-2008/EB20081217REVIEWS812179989AR.jpg)
Heh I wish.
oh noooos
Iran Observer
@IranObserver0
⚡️Coastal areas of Gazans report that American troops of the Delta Force units are fighting on the ground.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9eb6ViWQAATH1n?format=jpg&name=small)
an interesting thread about social media, mostly tik tok and twitter, and how its impacted youth opinions on this war.
and this will probably shock JH, but I was totally onboard with the idea of banning tik tok in the United States.
https://twitter.com/jmj/status/1717404573214671068
^That is pretty f'd up, but just reinforces how much independent thinking has lapsed.
My daughters are 15 and 17 and love that crap as much as the next teenager, but I have inculcated the idea of questioning their sources in their young brains.
TikTok is a scourge.
just from a numbers point, there are only 16 million Jews and they aint all rolling out media clips all the time.
QuoteThe Israeli government has now responded to the UN resolution calling for a ceasefire.
Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen:
"We reject outright the UN General Assembly despicable call for a ceasefire.
Israel intends to eliminate Hamas just as the world dealt with the Nazis and ISIS."
The UN is f'ing worthless and almost as anti-Semitic as Hamas.
looking for confirmation on this statement.
QuoteNews: USMC Lt. Gen. James Glynn, dispatched by Pentagon to advise Israel on risks inherent in an invasion of Gaza Strip, has returned to the US.
"Make no mistake: what is, has or will unfold in Gaza is purely an Israeli decision." -USMC commandant Gen. Eric Smith told reporters.
Total blackout in Gaza, which seems to indicate ground action is imminent. :undecided:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna122531
(https://i.ibb.co/PDdjB0T/ad19e9j6.png)
:thank_you:
for your TikTok reel, story, clip, short , ... or what ever its called
I love the smell of smoked ham in the morning :Dreamer:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 06:22:22 PMQuoteThe Israeli government has now responded to the UN resolution calling for a ceasefire.
Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen:
"We reject outright the UN General Assembly despicable call for a ceasefire.
Israel intends to eliminate Hamas just as the world dealt with the Nazis and ISIS."
Because they know damn well that this time Israel means business. Hamas does not stand a chance that's why everyone is crying out for a ceasefire. Where were all these bozos when Russia invaded Ukraine? How come there wasn't incessant calls for a ceasefire then and global condemnation? Hypocrites!
Palestinian Islamic Jihad would like to hire this guy from the Turkish pro-terror protest as head rocket launch commander. He appears to have the right skills.
https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1718342759981986215?t=S9Cw9AhQ1vM7V1b1SISInQ&s=19
Quote from: MOS:96B2P on October 28, 2023, 03:52:10 PMPalestinian Islamic Jihad would like to hire this guy from the Turkish pro-terror protest as head rocket launch commander. He appears to have the right skills.
https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1718342759981986215?t=S9Cw9AhQ1vM7V1b1SISInQ&s=19
Breaking news from Al-Jazeera. Israeli's bomb protest in Istanbul, nearly 1000 pro-Palestinian Turkish protesters dead. Arab states demand Turkey implement Article 5 against Israel!
Erdogan can suck it:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67252049
Quote from: Gusington on October 28, 2023, 06:32:58 PMErdogan can suck it:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67252049
He needs to be careful. The parts of Turkey are very secular.
Some of his attempts to end Ataturk's "Secular Nation" haven't gone over as well as he'd like.
^Good.
Quote from: Gusington on October 28, 2023, 07:48:55 PM^Good.
Only partly. He's done a good job of setting himself up as a little tyrant. Those secular movements are mostly concentrated in the western parts of the country and the east is increasingly Islamist.
The extreme Islamic right in Turkey is pushing hard for an eventual Iran style Islamic Revolution.
Never forget that even today a large segment of Iran is secular and has mostly what would be considered Western values but live in a nightmare police state. I've got a lot of friends who are Iranian ex-pats who are from that group. They dream of a life where they can return to their homes and families and live in a freedom they believe Iran deserves.
^I do too. The Iranians that I am friends with here in New York are some of the warmest, kindest people I know.
And some of the women...hubba hubba. That's Persian for 'hawt.'
Quote from: Gusington on October 28, 2023, 08:31:58 PM^I do too. The Iranians that I am friends with here in New York are some of the warmest, kindest people I know.
And some of the women...hubba hubba. That's Persian for 'hawt.'
Yeah, same. We have a "Little Persia" here in Montgomery, that's mostly moved off to Pike Road. I had a lot of those kids as my students and parents as friends. They're heavy into local business ownership here and a few of those guys and girls were people I've known since High School.
Extremely decent people. They hate what's happening in Iran with a white hot fury that I can't even comprehend. They feel like the birthright of their entire nation and culture has been taken from them.
Most of the people I know here are through my wife's family. The patriarch and his wife fled here in 1979 and were extremely wealthy in Iran. Here the man became a surgeon. One of their daughters is pretty well known:
https://www.instagram.com/yasminvossoughian/?hl=en
Can't locate the thread for posting hypocrisy, so I'll post it here. https://ca.rogers.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-israels-gaza-bombardment-114134986.html
QuoteRussian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said that Israel's bombardment of Gaza runs counter to international law and risks creating a catastrophe that could last decades.
Maybe Lavrov will end up being the joker in the deck of cards.
Quote from: Uberhaus on October 28, 2023, 09:15:32 PMMaybe Lavrov will end up being the joker in the deck of cards.
Send Lavrov to Gaza to put a flower in the barrel of an IDF soldiers' gun.
ok hive mine, go aggregate info on sponge bombs.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 08:56:59 PMlooking for confirmation on this statement.
QuoteNews: USMC Lt. Gen. James Glynn, dispatched by Pentagon to advise Israel on risks inherent in an invasion of Gaza Strip, has returned to the US.
"Make no mistake: what is, has or will unfold in Gaza is purely an Israeli decision." -USMC commandant Gen. Eric Smith told reporters.
I saw the video myself, I don't have the link offhand but it's definitely real.
I know not to believe everything I read that pops up due to propaganda, but I have to admit I'm extremely disturbed by the death tolls being reported in Gaza, including that of children. I have to wonder if what appears to be mass bombing campaigns will really help root out Hamas rather than embolden survivors to join them. Their leaders aren't even present in Gaza, but rather living comfortably in cities far from the conflict.
I don't feel that I'm in a position to criticize Israel for what measures they choose to take to defend themselves, but it makes me extremely uncomfortable to read about what's going on and know that one of our major representatives is essentially washing the United States' hands of Israel's conduct.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 28, 2023, 11:58:02 PMsponge bombs.
its probably a PU foam, (expanding foam in your DIY-store)
the tricky part is to optimze a method of application for field use and the mixture for a bit faster reaction and more volume (bigger bubbles in the foam)
(there is a 1-component variant which needs humidity to expand and has an expansion factor of 55
so a 400ml can expand to 22 liter of foam )
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/25/sponge-bomb-new-weapon-israel-gaza-tunnels-war-hamas/
Quote from: al_infierno on October 29, 2023, 01:00:06 AMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on October 27, 2023, 08:56:59 PMlooking for confirmation on this statement.
QuoteNews: USMC Lt. Gen. James Glynn, dispatched by Pentagon to advise Israel on risks inherent in an invasion of Gaza Strip, has returned to the US.
"Make no mistake: what is, has or will unfold in Gaza is purely an Israeli decision." -USMC commandant Gen. Eric Smith told reporters.
I saw the video myself, I don't have the link offhand but it's definitely real.
I know not to believe everything I read that pops up due to propaganda, but I have to admit I'm extremely disturbed by the death tolls being reported in Gaza, including that of children. I have to wonder if what appears to be mass bombing campaigns will really help root out Hamas rather than embolden survivors to join them. Their leaders aren't even present in Gaza, but rather living comfortably in cities far from the conflict.
It isn't anywhere close to a "mass bombing campaign". Israel is using precision strikes to hit valid military targets. Once again, it is not fair or logical to expect Israel to avoid civilian casualties when those civilians are used by Hamas as shields for the most critical of command, logistical and offensive sites. Of course civilians will die, but the blood is on hamas' hands. Furthermore, I've said it many times here and nobody has really commented...in world war 2, and wars since, by the way, we bombed cities indiscriminately in order to destroy the enemies will and ability to fight. Nobody questioned or was concerned about whether the hundreds of thousands of civilians who died or were displaced were actual nazis or Tojo supporting samurai. It was total war, and the more damage inflicted, the faster the end would come. Why should Israel now be held to an entirely different standard?
Finally, there are leaders and commanders in Gaza, as should be evident from the reports of the numbers of them who have been killed.
Quote from: al_infierno on October 29, 2023, 01:00:06 AMI don't feel that I'm in a position to criticize Israel for what measures they choose to take to defend themselves, but it makes me extremely uncomfortable to read about what's going on and know that one of our major representatives is essentially washing the United States' hands of Israel's conduct.
Why should the US in any way be responsible for how Israel fights its war? Weren't we complaining about NATO interference in how Ukraine fights its war? I believe most felt that the US should provide Ukraine with the weapons and let Ukraine decide for itself the best way to employ them. Why the difference in attitude here?
Quote from: al_infierno on October 29, 2023, 01:00:06 AMI have to admit I'm extremely disturbed by the death tolls being reported in Gaza, including that of children.
the last thing I'm going believe right now are hamas casualty reports.
I feel like I posted this before.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718287858421698712
I don't really see how you can look at this image and characterize it as the result of precise strikes and not mass bombing. By all accounts, swathes of Gaza is being leveled. Was every one of the buildings in this picture a command, logistical, or offensive site?
As for the Ukraine comparison, the obvious difference is that Ukraine isn't bombing any Russian cities as far as I'm aware, and certainly not to the extent that Gaza is getting bombed.
JH I agree that the blood is on Hamas's hands. My point was that when this is over, I'm concerned Hamas will actually grow stronger due to further radicalization of Palestinians toward their cause.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/17E48/production/_131546879_gaza_beit_hanoun_east_before_after_oct21640_x2_nc.png)
my off the cuff analogy would be thinking about that one area of Chicago were all the shitty things happen.
Quote from: al_infierno on October 29, 2023, 09:30:51 AMI don't really see how you can look at this image and characterize it as the result of precise strikes and not mass bombing. By all accounts, swathes of Gaza is being leveled.
what happens in Gaza is still plinking
take a look at Berlin 1945
there is an estimate of about 40 000 Hamas fighters and about 15 000 of that Palastine Jihadists group in Gaza
now take into accout, like in all armies, as a rule of thumb for every fighting frontline soldier you need 10 in the logistic chain, here probably in plain clothes without a uniform or batch or brassard to identify in the mortuary or on media vids
so call me again about casualities when the Gaza death toll is the low single digits of hundred thousands
and btw if someone is able and willing to haul lets say an RPG warhead to the front line (like HJ with a Panzerfaust) its a valid target beside its young age
especially if he had spit on that festival dancing girl, lying in the pickup 3 weeks ago... i spare us the repost
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718561318360564096
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718578538108932364
London has fallen :embarrassed:
looks like we (the West) have let way to many of the wrong people into our countries :HideEyes:
Quote from: al_infierno on October 29, 2023, 09:30:51 AMI don't really see how you can look at this image and characterize it as the result of precise strikes and not mass bombing. By all accounts, swathes of Gaza is being leveled. Was every one of the buildings in this picture a command, logistical, or offensive site?
As for the Ukraine comparison, the obvious difference is that Ukraine isn't bombing any Russian cities as far as I'm aware, and certainly not to the extent that Gaza is getting bombed.
JH I agree that the blood is on Hamas's hands. My point was that when this is over, I'm concerned Hamas will actually grow stronger due to further radicalization of Palestinians toward their cause.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/17E48/production/_131546879_gaza_beit_hanoun_east_before_after_oct21640_x2_nc.png)
Buildings are still standing and people are still living. Seems restrained from my perspective. My point is that when this is over, bombing or not, Hamas will still grow stronger because regardless, children will be taught to kill and hate. How would you go about handling a group of people that do not believe you have a right to exist? just how careful and discriminant would you be?
Meanwhile on the West Bank...
"A Jewish settler shot dead a Palestinian man harvesting olives near the West Bank city of Nablus, the man's uncle said Sunday. This brings the number of Palestinians reported killed by settlers to seven since Hamas's bloody incursion into Israel three weeks ago."
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-settler-shoots-kills-palestinian-harvester-violence-surges-104457880
"Settler leader Yossi Dagan said in a video posted on the social media p(platform Facebook Saturday that the shooter was accompanied by family members and fired in self-defense after they were "attacked with rocks by dozens of rioting Hamas supporters." -- same article.
It's possible both stories are true, and the guy was mistakenly shot trying to get his family away from the conflict. Or one or the other side (or both) is flatly lying to protect themselves. I think it's worth noting that both stories include protection of family members from the violence. (And both testimonies are second-or-thirdhand.)
The ABC article points out that a lot of the 100 deaths in the West Bank since the war started, occurred during military raids and violent protests. Only ('only') seven have been shot by Jewish settlers in the area.
There is at least some hope that the death will be investigated properly, instead of Jews dancing in the streets and showing their children how to deal with Palestinian dogs etc. Depends on who's running the rule of law in the West Bank and how civilized they regard the rule of law to be.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 29, 2023, 12:34:45 PMBuildings are still standing and people are still living. Seems restrained from my perspective. My point is that when this is over, bombing or not, Hamas will still grow stronger because regardless, children will be taught to kill and hate. How would you go about handling a group of people that do not believe you have a right to exist? just how careful and discriminant would you be?
So if Hamas will grow stronger after this regardless of what happens, what exactly is the bombing accomplishing? I thought the goal was to root out and destroy Hamas. At what point is the population of Palestine sufficiently eradicated to ensure that Israel is safe from Hamas?
People across the West are crying about genocide against Palestine at the hands of Isreal, and I've been very incredulous of these statements... but if the goal is truly to eradicate Hamas by any means possible, and the chosen means are to level Gaza indiscriminately, I have to ask at what point will victory be declared and how much of the population will be spared. I know they've been radicalized since they were children, but so were the Germans in 1945.
And as for your question, I don't have an answer because I truly don't know and I'm glad I'm not in the position to make the decision. Maybe I'm being naive.
Quote from: MikeGER on October 29, 2023, 11:21:59 AMwhat happens in Gaza is still plinking
take a look at Berlin 1945
there is an estimate of about 40 000 Hamas fighters and about 15 000 of that Palastine Jihadists group in Gaza
now take into accout, like in all armies, as a rule of thumb for every fighting frontline soldier you need 10 in the logistic chain, here probably in plain clothes without a uniform or batch or brassard to identify in the mortuary or on media vids
so call me again about casualities when the Gaza death toll is the low single digits of hundred thousands
and btw if someone is able and willing to haul lets say an RPG warhead to the front line (like HJ with a Panzerfaust) its a valid target beside its young age
especially if he had spit on that festival dancing girl, lying in the pickup 3 weeks ago... i spare us the repost
From the stats I looked up, Berlin had a population of 4 million prior to WWII and Gaza had a population of 400,000 in 2017. Hardly apt to compare death tolls. However, I can't agree with "children are valid targets because they're able to haul RPGs" - this line of thinking will create multiple honest-to-goodness terrorists for every "terrorist" child that's killed.
And yeah, I'm still furious about the massacre on 10/7. I still believe Hamas needs to be destroyed and held accountable. I'm just not convinced that leveling Gaza indiscriminately is going to solve anything or make the region a better place for anyone - Israelis included.
I dont think what Israel is doing is indiscriminate.
10/7 was pretty indiscriminate in its slaughter of Jews. Did anyone ask Hamas to be more specific and target only IDF? I already know the answer.
That said, it's the age old question - how to destroy a terrorist without creating 10 more to take his place. I dunno.
Brainwashing, poverty and propaganda don't help either.
This whole disaster is really opening my naive eyes on how anti-Jew hate still thrives. I did like to think it was less now in 2023 than it had been 100 years ago leading up to WWII.
May as well make it an Olympic sport at this point.
Just to be clear I'm not suddenly supporting Palestine and I'm still very much on the side of Israel defending itself. I just want to ask what I see as the "hard questions" about the long term implications of Israel's current response. As many others have pointed out, it seems like a similar dynamic to America post-9/11 and as we all know, our response to 9/11 didn't exactly work out well for the region seeing as Al-Qaeda is not just alive, but thriving.
^I don't think anyone here sees you as a Hamas supporter - your questions pre-date 9/11 too.
The Enforcer collects some more information about the Dagestan attack. Evidently the mob did catch and take off some Israeli citizens to lynch them.
who protested this?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718241412590821464
US logistics is a fucking thing to behold!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9iiXV-a4AAiHzF?format=jpg&name=large)
and the Med is our fucking lake.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9pg__TXUAAH02q?format=jpg&name=large)
Netanyahu wanted Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO and the Palestinian Authority for the purpose of undermining both. At the time, this may have seemed like good realpolitik. In retrospect, it was an unwise and exceedingly dangerous strategy to pursue.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-future-of-hamas-after-october-7-2023-part-1/ (https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-future-of-hamas-after-october-7-2023-part-1/)
anyone have this on their bingo card?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718738113718088077
Shani Nicole Louk, the German-Israeli girl you all know from the electro dance festival and later seen paraded around in that pick-up truck is confirmed dead.
President Jitzchak Herzog himself had to report that they found her skull!, she had been beheaded. :shocked:
(https://www.ansa.it/webimages/img_700/2023/10/30/15c10e127994fbee62224035cafbc355.jpg)
RIP
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 30, 2023, 07:08:43 AManyone have this on their bingo card?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718738113718088077
The pro-Palestinians were too stupid to know that the black Israelites actually hate real Jews just as much as they do.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718977025426292752
the original interview with Jitzchak Herzog
meanwhile somewhere in the West :HideEyes: :ROFL: this planet is domed :undecided:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719016090531950922
AS JH said, the Black Israelites are as f'd as Hamas.
RIP Shani Louk.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 30, 2023, 07:08:43 AManyone have this on their bingo card?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718738113718088077
it's Chicago...whaddya expect?
Now that I thought about it for a second...if the Black Israelites and Hamas fans could destroy each other...everyone else would benefit muchly.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on October 30, 2023, 07:08:43 AManyone have this on their bingo card?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1718738113718088077
Shoot-I would have paid $20 for bleacher seats to that cage match.... :RockOn:
Quote from: Gusington on October 30, 2023, 11:02:27 AMNow that I thought about it for a second...if the Black Israelites and Hamas fans could destroy each other...everyone else would benefit muchly.
In better news, BBC reports an IDF private has been rescued :peace:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67258466
The Israel Defense Force (IDF) and Israel Securities Authority (ISA) have released a joint statement in the last few minutes announcing the rescue of a female Israeli soldier taken hostage by Hamas.
They said that Private Ori Megidish was freed during IDF ground operations overnight after being taken hostage on 7 October.
"The soldier was medically checked, is doing well, and has met with her family. The IDF and ISA will continue to do everything it takes in order to release the hostages," the statement added.
kinda surprised no one got shot cause.... Chicago bang bang!
...another good analysis that helps clarify the likely bullshit and spin that will come from al jazeera, et al. The explosive bits are readily available from other online sources.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9y5GiNXMAEse-q?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719506019351462385
'Get the f outta here, you're a scumbag.' Yes.
I've seen many similar videos of incidents like this taking place in various cities. In my view, the antisemitism was always there brewing. The war has simply brought it to the surface for all to see. The protests are particularly infuriating for me. You've got one idiot up there with a megaphone shouting ridiculous slogans and large mobs of morons blindly repeating them. The dangers of ignorance and group think are out on display for all to see.
'You've got one idiot up there with a megaphone shouting ridiculous slogans and large mobs of morons blindly repeating them.'
It would be funny if it wasn't funny at all. I really did not think we would see this again. Actually, this is the first time it has been so in my face, ever.
I have to give respect to my older daughter who wears a silver Star of David. She is one of only a handful of Jewish kids in the high school here and she is a senior.
Without any prompting, when this started, of course she was afraid, but also defiant. She wears the star out on top of her clothes, instead of tucking it in.
Maybe not the wisest thing to do in this atmosphere, but I would be lying if I said I was not proud of her.
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2023, 09:21:46 AM'You've got one idiot up there with a megaphone shouting ridiculous slogans and large mobs of morons blindly repeating them.'
It would be funny if it wasn't funny at all. I really did not think we would see this again. Actually, this is the first time it has been so in my face, ever.
I have to give respect to my older daughter who wears a silver Star of David. She is one of only a handful of Jewish kids in the high school here and she is a senior.
Without any prompting, when this started, of course she was afraid, but also defiant. She wears the star out on top of her clothes, instead of tucking it in.
Maybe not the wisest thing to do in this atmosphere, but I would be lying if I said I was not proud of her.
Yeah. This is a really tough call. Whether to put pride above safety. I had a discussion with my oldest daughter this past weekend about the current situation, the history of antisemitism and how to have a strong identity while being aware of the dangers she may face or encounter and the importance of using good judgment and discretion. It is a difficult discussion to have with a 10-year old.
You should be very proud of your daughter. My wife and I have not made enough of an effort to instill that kind of awareness and pride in our daughter's religious identity. I mean, she knows she is Jewish and is proud of it, but I don't think it is truly a part of who she is yet.
I'm actually not surprised that we are seeing this level of hatred. It has always existed and history does tend to repeat itself.
...another shocking exchange.
Thanks JH. We are proud. And quietly nervous.
I watched that whole clip above and the sheer ignorance of history is an eye-opener. Besides the blatant Jew-hate.
At least, a couple of times, Ben got some applause.
And I am not the biggest Ben Shapiro fan either.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719761521058742730
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719754718220525757
fuck every last one of these god damn assholes.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719665588228751481
^They're not going to be doing anything because there will be no Hamas left.
As the Jewish contingent here we may be letting our emotions show.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F93GHmJXwAAons1?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2023, 12:35:23 PMAs the Jewish contingent here we may be letting our emotions show.
ya want the video of the first responder who found a girl with both arms cut off but still alive talk about how she died soon after being found?
NO
love this
https://twitter.com/i/status/1717159421179052271
Another concise analysis by Ward Carroll.
I'm seeing a lot of videos documenting the ugliness that is rearing it's head all over the west. But this one I found, from a Jewish YouTube channel, is about the supposed son of Hamas leader who sides with Israel. Don't let his language confuse you on where he stands. He's definitely all about destroying Hamas and he stands with Israel.
The real tragedy I see unfolding before our eyes is how everyone is totally ignoring the facts and the truth on what happened on October 7 and crying out for palestine to be free from river to sea. But I really do believe Israel will be victorious and the G who never sleeps nor slumbers WILL protect Israel.
another 421 casualties.... :Loser:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719782173765505229
:Dreamer:
is it me or is there a widespread lack of official support for hummus among regional countries?
the dipshit in turkey has come out in support as has iran. but beyond protests not much.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1719800820265267440
I have noticed an interesting silence from Saudi Arabia.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F93eFNCXIAAIIjO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2023, 03:19:51 PMI have noticed an interesting silence from Saudi Arabia.
they were about to sign treaties with Israel. while still making a shit ton of money from oil the Saudi's have been looking for every way to move away from that as their sole income. to do that they need peace in the region and the help of solid, stable countries. like Israel.
It's certainly a test on who exactly is running the Sauds right now.
Personally I'm waiting for the shipments of Western pig blood to arrive for Delta Force and related ops. Hamas has bigger problems going to judgment than that, but they won't think so.
All that said I am sure that Saudi Arabia is not happy with Iran's meddling across the whole region.
Israel's moving some Saar class frigates to the Red Sea to counter houthi cruise missiles. the Saudi's dont have the assets to deal with it and seem to have given the Israelis tacit approval.
Quote from: Gusington on November 01, 2023, 12:35:23 PM^They're not going to be doing anything because there will be no Hamas left.
As the Jewish contingent here we may be letting our emotions show.
No problem. It's very understandable and justified. And just so you know: a lot of your Christian brothers want to open up a can of whup ass on the Hamas bastards.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F94J_jKXEAEzrO5?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1720052261169008873
WTF is this about? This is very unprecedented.
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/399008803_7209109185766338_8047105064346868434_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=hwaIaImor0gAX9yl--4&_nc_oc=AQneC12PdL1ICgEPT5dsv98vnw-zxPMVr8yKa9BMCXkJOy4Akj1R_zJXnUGjGx0FF6I&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=00_AfAdZ2AwASdR-QxONGywa6dERt90fuinorzILqgtg3nG7Q&oe=6547C1A4)
It may be a force protection issue. Don't want to have a bunch of senior marines all in one place at a party.....
Quote from: Tripoli on November 02, 2023, 09:15:11 AMIt may be a force protection issue. Don't want to have a bunch of senior marines all in one place at a party.....
I would imagine if that were the case then there must be some pretty credible intel of an actual threat. Either way, it is still very unprecedented and it makes me think something is really up.
Has it ever been cancelled before?
And thank you for the kind words Tripoli. The great shame in all this is that Christians, Muslims and Jews are all brothers.
It just does not feel like it now.
Thanks to JH for introducing me to Ryan McBeth - what a Middle East regional war could look like...I learned a lot in a short time here:
"In less than 24 hours, the number of victims of the first and second Israeli bombings of the Jabalia refugee camp has exceeded 1,000."
https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1719878237206311222?t=uVsRenH3Yt3TwLRmvfTBHA&s=19
Look at this pathetic loser who made the anti-Jewish threats at Cornell. I would love to meet him.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/01/us/cornell-university-antisemitic-threats-thursday/index.html
Quote from: Gusington on November 02, 2023, 09:34:32 AMHas it ever been cancelled before?
And thank you for the kind words Tripoli. The great shame in all this is that Christians, Muslims and Jews are all brothers.
It just does not feel like it now.
You are not alone. There are a lot of us out here that got ya'lls back. Like this guy (who has been mentioned before) here: https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/11/just-a-regular-guy-meet-nyc-construction-worker-who-confronted-man-tearing-down-israeli-hostage-posters/
This video shows a lot of the megaphone touting and blind following that JH was mentioning, but it also shows a lot of very smart, well-spoken kids who give me some hope.
One of the Jewish girls featured reminds me a lot of my oldest daughter and she is wearing the same or similar Star of David I mentioned earlier.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/11/01/college-campus-protests-pro-palestinian-jewish-students-antisemitism-war-reeve-dnt-ac360-vpx.cnn
Tripoli that guy you featured above has become a hero of mine. I hope there are billions more like him.
Do any of these fuckknuckles on all these college campuses even know what they're protesting for or what's even is going on outside of their Tiktik pages and frat house rages?
Pathetic
Quote from: Groggy on November 02, 2023, 10:04:39 AM"In less than 24 hours, the number of victims of the first and second Israeli bombings of the Jabalia refugee camp has exceeded 1,000."
https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1719878237206311222?t=uVsRenH3Yt3TwLRmvfTBHA&s=19
I saw something about this earlier. What's the actual story on it? Are the numbers confirmed (which is somewhat less important but Hamas and related sources have been known to inflate numbers)? Was it really a refugee camp? If so, was it also being used as human shields for something else like rocket strikes at Israeli civilians or a Hamas HQ? Was it even an Israeli strike? (Hamas has dropped munitions on their own people before, at least by accident, and blamed it on the Jews; the recent hospital wasn't even the first time, it happens pretty regularly, though usually without such casualties.) If it was an Israeli strike on a legitimate refugee camp, was it bad intel? If Israel intentionally hit a mere refugee camp (twice), regardless of the number of casualties (even if it was only one casualty it would still be questionably bad at best), who authorized it and why?
On a lighter note: Wonder Woman has not yet joined the reservists, but she does post support for Israel and the hostage children.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fact-check-has-gal-gadot-joined-israeli-army-to-fight-hamas/ar-AA1jhhIk?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=d77f7c8466d14fcbb31f261c68c2b18e&ei=28
I don't have a link off hand, but Wolf Blitzer interviewed an IDF spokesman who confirmed that they struck a refugee camp and killed a high ranking Hamas commander who was using them as human shields. No idea if the death tolls are accurate.
^According to Al Jazeera, as quoted by Groggy, they are all "victims". :idiot2:
now the real squeeze begins.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F98f7xHW4AAEz6W?format=jpg&name=large)
I have some images to share regarding the deception that is going on in the media. I'll share later tonight when I have access to my Telegram account.
Just curious: when I post a link to a Telegram article are you all able to see it or does it ask for you to log into Telegram?
send up a test balloon and we'll see.
the amount of disinformation I've seen about this war dwarfs what Ive seen coming out of Ukraine.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 02, 2023, 09:18:35 AMQuote from: Tripoli on November 02, 2023, 09:15:11 AMIt may be a force protection issue. Don't want to have a bunch of senior marines all in one place at a party.....
I would imagine if that were the case then there must be some pretty credible intel of an actual threat. Either way, it is still very unprecedented and it makes me think something is really up.
Tomorrow, Hassan Nasrallah, the S-G of Hezbollah, may be announcing his very own cotillion. Hopefully, Marines will be invited; the history between is known.
From ISW: https://www.understandingwar.org/
QuoteIran and Lebanese Hezbollah (LH) are continuing to promote the expectation in the information space that LH will announce some kind of escalation against Israel on November 3. CTP-ISW previously reported that LH has released two dramatic videos in recent days ahead of LH Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah's planned speech on November 3, creating the expectation of a significant announcement on the Israel-Hamas war. This speech is significant in that it will be Nasrallah's first public statement on the war. Iranian state media has further amplified the news of the upcoming speech and the dramatic videos, describing them as a "sign of future events."
Iran: "A sign of future events!"
Others: "Going out of business!" "Fire sale, everything must go!"
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 02, 2023, 03:42:11 PMsend up a test balloon and we'll see.
the amount of disinformation I've seen about this war dwarfs what Ive seen coming out of Ukraine.
You're not kidding.
Here are a couple of links:
This one is about a guy that keeps showing up in propaganda videos
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/21702
And this one is about some racists who made the front page of the New York Post because of her hatred
https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/21822
Ive seen the first guy a whole lot.
Ive seen her with the other chick taking down posters.
fuck them both.
fwiw a lot of these people are getting fired, deported and sidelined because its so easy to identify them today.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 02, 2023, 02:34:47 PM^According to Al Jazeera, as quoted by Groggy, they are all "victims". :idiot2:
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1720026256601702897
^I saw that clip yesterday. Pretty brilliant.
'I'm glad I read you the terms and conditions.' :cool:
^I understand. :cool:
QuoteMany Gazans are sharing this footages which appears to show a group of residents gunned down by Hamas police on the Al Rasheed beach road as they tried to flee south from the Israeli offensive and it triggers outrage among residents
https://twitter.com/i/status/1720457311951499372
Someone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
Quote from: Groggy on November 03, 2023, 03:53:38 PMSomeone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
(https://media.tenor.com/QdFuSeDGQJkAAAAC/dont-start-nothing-wont-be-nothin.gif)
Quote from: Groggy on November 03, 2023, 03:53:38 PMSomeone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
these kids?
(https://images.genpi.co/uploads/arsip/normal/2021/07/03/anak-anak-gaza-dilatih-menggunakan-senjata-di-summer-camp-ha-wxky.jpg)
I'm sure Groggy meant Hamas when he typed 'good guys.'
But please don't let me put words in your mouth, Groggy.
"In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to show the way."
Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition Rulebook, pg. 38
Now while there may be a certain truth to that thought of the day in the WH40K universe, I believe that is not applicable to our world. However that being said it sure does look like the madmen are leading the way.
Guys, and I'm talking to the non-Jews here, we need to be respectful considering the website we're on. It's ok to disagree but it's best for everyone to do it in a respectful manner. Sarcasm doesn't help no matter how righteous you might think your cause is. Present the facts clearly and amicably and you'll get a better discussion.
At the end of the day we might not all see eye to eye but we are all groghead brothers. No need to let our different opinions and beliefs stop us from being friends.
I know what I'm saying might sound a bit foolish and idealistic to some but if we can learn to disagree while still maintaining cordial talks isn't the world a better place for it?
Also keep in mind that what's happening now in the middle east affects a lot of us in a personal and emotional manner. I can spit vile venom if I wanted to concerning how my people were ethnically cleansed from Nagorno Karabakh last month before the middle east erupted on fire and the world didn't give a damn about the plight of the Armenians. But what good would that do?
What's happening today in the world is totally demonic, there really is no other explanation for it.
Quote from: Groggy on November 03, 2023, 03:53:38 PMSomeone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
Groggy, I'm sympathetic to the idea that Palestine is full of victims and not necessarily perpetrators or supporters of terror. But I have to ask what you think you're accomplishing by posting intentionally incendiary stuff like this on a forum that clearly has strong feelings on the topic? If you want to make the case that Palestinians are being unfairly victimized by Israel's policies, I am open to hearing them. But dropping an "actually Isreal is the bad guy here" bomb without elaborating on it or justifying it isn't helpful and won't change anybody's mind.
I am in favor of de-radicalizing a future generation of Palestinians instead of wiping them out, and with this thought in mind I can share what I assume is your distaste for folks who say Gaza should be leveled. I also expressed similar concern earlier in this thread. But at the same time, I would recommend you maybe think through your posts a bit more next time and try to form a cogent argument that might make somebody reconsider their views rather than stirring the pot with a concise Twitter-esque reply.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-C-yyJXYAACnU1?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Groggy on November 03, 2023, 03:53:38 PMSomeone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
Don't worry Groggy, the Palestine Human Shield Generator produce about 5400 new units a month, so actual situation is not even weakening the shield yet :huh:
...doing the Ha-math for you :)
Quote from: al_infierno on November 03, 2023, 10:44:17 PMQuote from: Groggy on November 03, 2023, 03:53:38 PMSomeone please tell the terrorists to release the hostages or else the "good guys" will kill another 3,000 children.
Groggy, I'm sympathetic to the idea that Palestine is full of victims and not necessarily perpetrators or supporters of terror. But I have to ask what you think you're accomplishing by posting intentionally incendiary stuff like this on a forum that clearly has strong feelings on the topic? If you want to make the case that Palestinians are being unfairly victimized by Israel's policies, I am open to hearing them. But dropping an "actually Isreal is the bad guy here" bomb without elaborating on it or justifying it isn't helpful and won't change anybody's mind.
I am in favor of de-radicalizing a future generation of Palestinians instead of wiping them out, and with this thought in mind I can share what I assume is your distaste for folks who say Gaza should be leveled. I also expressed similar concern earlier in this thread. But at the same time, I would recommend you maybe think through your posts a bit more next time and try to form a cogent argument that might make somebody reconsider their views rather than stirring the pot with a concise Twitter-esque reply.
In Groggy's defense, making such an argument for his case would most certainly cross our well-defined line of what constitutes R&P. Giving him every benefit of the doubt, he may be deliberately obtuse in his postings in an effort to make his point without getting into too much detail as to justify censure from a mod.
I recognize it is a difficult line to tow and Groggy, based upon what I surmise are his true feelings on this issue, has been especially restrained. It's not easy to sit silently by as others post news and opinions that are in stark contrast to one's own thoughts and views.
So while I think going down this rabbit hole will most certainly cross into R&P and quite rapidly, at that, I'm willing to indulge for the time being unless and until things get out of hand or start distracting from more on point or appropriate topics. Personally, while I certainly can understand how one might take issue with certain policies enacted by Israel, I cannot for the life of me see how this could justify widespread support for Hamas or justification for naked acts of terror. Perhaps my curiosity has simply gotten the best of me?
I don't understand how anybody can take the victim numbers out of Gaza seriously. They are entirely controlled by Hamas and to me completely useless.
The fact that we don't get any alternative numbers does not improve their quality.
would you want to be a western journo in gaza right now? :axechaser:
Photos showing some Palestinian civilians on October 7th.
https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1720838343972233349?t=-QqAZEUwF3O4S9Am3Fwvug&s=19
https://twitter.com/TbaFun/status/1720839077812142396?t=eJFvkv00w2Q-_qrqWDcmrQ&s=19
I think the ones really victimizing Palestinians are Iran. Palestinians are just pawns in Iran's Middle East power play. Sad really, because with gazas loacation, it could have been the Singapore of the Middle East, but they went the terrorist route.
Quite interesting that Arab nations are not very aggressive, but it's Persian Iran that's the catalyst for violence here. And also seems the Hamas/ Hezbollah / Iran has been playing the information war pretty solid, I can't see how anyone would be on their side after what we saw on 10/7.
Quote from: Skoop on November 04, 2023, 02:05:35 PMI think the ones really victimizing Palestinians are Iran. Palestinians are just pawns in Iran's Middle East power play. Sad really, because with gazas loacation, it could have been the Singapore of the Middle East, but they went the terrorist route.
Quite interesting that Arab nations are not very aggressive, but it's Persian Iran that's the catalyst for violence here. And also seems the Hamas/ Hezbollah / Iran has been playing the information war pretty solid, I can't see how anyone would be on their side after what we saw on 10/7.
Palestinians are used not just by Iran, but by every single Arab state. Nobody wants them in their country, but at the same time, they're valuable pawns in the PR war against Israel and the west. Think about it, Egypt and Jordan won't let a single refugee across their borders, yet somehow, they're Israel's total responsibility.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 04, 2023, 02:29:48 PMPalestinians are used not just by Iran, but by every single Arab state. Nobody wants them in their country, but at the same time, they're valuable pawns in the PR war against Israel and the west. Think about it, Egypt and Jordan won't let a single refugee across their borders, yet somehow, they're Israel's total responsibility.
It was the same way in '48.
I'll just say this:
I've been reading claims that Israel is all good and Palestinians all bad, and many claims that say the exact opposite. It appears to me that members of both groups are doing great evils, while others of both groups suffer great evils.
I feel only grief and pain from it. And this is only the beginning because in the not so distant future we are going to see more disruption, violence, and general bizarreness with the geopolitical order. Change my mind.
Quote from: Groggy on November 04, 2023, 07:59:37 PMChange my mind.
As a general rule, anyone that ends a message in that fashion has already made up their mind, and any attempt to change it is an exercise in futility.
the Arab world at large and certain specific groups have been trying to eradicate Israel from day 1. many wars and countless terrorist acts later and you'll excuse me if I really don't give a fuck about the pali plight. they were given gaza to do with as they please and decided to elect a terrorist organization to power.
has the IDF randomly lobbed rockets into gaza and the west back for shit and giggles? no they haven't.
so spare me your grief and your wish to both sides this issue.
Trophy working, watch the tank on the right.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1720797697190269197
https://twitter.com/i/status/1720844002520396222
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-K73-kWcAAjgvs?format=jpg&name=medium)
the stupidity...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-LJje_WAAAyAPV?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 04, 2023, 10:45:40 PMthe Arab world at large and certain specific groups have been trying to eradicate Israel from day 1. many wars and countless terrorist acts later and you'll excuse me if I really don't give a fuck about the pali plight. they were given gaza to do with as they please and decided to elect a terrorist organization to power.
has the IDF randomly lobbed rockets into gaza and the west back for shit and giggles? no they haven't.
so spare me your grief and your wish to both sides this issue.
The biggest part of the problem the way I see it is that Israel has a very right wing aspiring autocrat who needs a war to stay in power. And an extremists right wing fundamentalist autocratic government who refuses to hold elections and needs war to further their reign from their safe locations in Qatar. So the problem is the leadership. That is where we should focus.
There's also the problem of billions of people latching on to this war as a new cause to wipe out Jews.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 05, 2023, 01:33:42 PMthe stupidity...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-LJje_WAAAyAPV?format=jpg&name=medium)
Some analysis on the "Queers for Palestine" phenomenon: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/queers-palestine-identity-politics-its-most-absurd
^Good link, Tripoli. If only people would read it.
"Leftists in English-speaking nations tend to see Palestinians (including Hamas) as an oppressed, brown victim class, whose freedom-fighting "resistance" against their oppressive, white, US-backed colonizers in Israel is a righteous cause with which to stand in solidarity."
This perfectly describes the common sentiment I see across Twitter. Nothing all that more deeply examined than "white-backed US colonizers bad, oppressed brown-skinned people good"
^Can we pit these idiots against the other idiots who see me as subhuman because I'm Jewish?
I came across this video clip on my YT feed this morning. Wanted to share it and I hope it brings some comfort and understanding about why the world is the way it is.
No this is not a proselytizing video, it's one of logic. Some will understand this Rabbi's message and some will not.
Quote from: Groggy on November 05, 2023, 04:01:07 PMThe biggest part of the problem the way I see it is that Israel has a very right wing aspiring autocrat who needs a war to stay in power. And an extremists right wing fundamentalist autocratic government who refuses to hold elections and needs war to further their reign from their safe locations in Qatar. So the problem is the leadership. That is where we should focus.
So, just to be sure I understand your claim, you think Netanyahu, the elected president of an actual democratic republic which guarantees human rights to its citizens including freedom of religion, engineered a more-severe-than-usual Hamas attack on his people in order to keep from being voted out of office, and this is one of the things we should be focusing on?
And if so, would you consider that to be the biggest part of the problem, or only equally big of a problem as the actual genocidal fascist leadership by actual autocrats who (as actual autocrats) cannot be voted out of their reign and aren't in the area being attacked by their opponents unlike Netanyahu, and who have absolutely no concept of the protection of other people's fundamental rights?
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 06, 2023, 01:10:45 PMQuote from: Groggy on November 05, 2023, 04:01:07 PMThe biggest part of the problem the way I see it is that Israel has a very right wing aspiring autocrat who needs a war to stay in power. And an extremists right wing fundamentalist autocratic government who refuses to hold elections and needs war to further their reign from their safe locations in Qatar. So the problem is the leadership. That is where we should focus.
So, just to be sure I understand your claim, you think Netanyahu, the elected president of an actual democratic republic which guarantees human rights to its citizens including freedom of religion, engineered a more-severe-than-usual Hamas attack on his people in order to keep from being voted out of office, and this is one of the things we should be focusing on?
And if so, would you consider that to be the biggest part of the problem, or only equally big of a problem as the actual genocidal fascist leadership by actual autocrats who (as actual autocrats) cannot be voted out of their reign and aren't in the area being attacked by their opponents unlike Netanyahu, and who have absolutely no concept of the protection of other people's fundamental rights?
I'm just waiting for Groggy to call Netanyahu a Nazi.
Jordan not happy :/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-all-options-open-gaza-conflict-intensifies-2023-11-06/
It is crystal clear Israel doesn't give two shits about what anyone thinks they should or should not do. I'd tell everyone to fuck off too :ThumbsUp:
Incredible overhead footage of Israeli special forces assassinating high-ranking Hamas members. Awesome display of tactics and communication. These guys are definitely not fucking around.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/
(or alternatively)
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/
SFW. Thankfully the massive balls on the cameraman are just out of frame.
Article for context: https://archive.ph/VlObI#selection-463.0-463.88
Israeli Army Says Killed Four Terrorists, Including Hamas and Fatah Members in West Bank
Quote from: Gusington on November 06, 2023, 05:40:01 PMJordan not happy :/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-all-options-open-gaza-conflict-intensifies-2023-11-06/
its posturing for his domestic audience.
this is what they lose if they either revoke their peace treaty or attack Israel.
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/mideast/RL33546.pdf
I dont see them giving up $1.45 billion a year in aid while we have squadrons of F-15s and A-10s in country.
Israel shot down a Houthi missile that was outside Earth's atmosphere, which is apparently the first recorded instance of space warfare. :tie1:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-771910
concealed hamas rocket launchers. I think these were once water tanks.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-QYBczXsAApcTF?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-QsBwxW0AA-AG4?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1721376898100379674
Quote from: al_infierno on November 06, 2023, 06:25:50 PMIncredible overhead footage of Israeli special forces assassinating high-ranking Hamas members. Awesome display of tactics and communication. These guys are definitely not fucking around.
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/
(or alternatively)
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/
SFW. Thankfully the massive balls on the cameraman are just out of frame.
Article for context: https://archive.ph/VlObI#selection-463.0-463.88
Israeli Army Says Killed Four Terrorists, Including Hamas and Fatah Members in West Bank
This is what vengeance looks like.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-SEoxEXcAAtGnR?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-SEsd0WEAA4wz5?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Fighting seems fairly limited based on that map, with "clashes" being relegated to just a couple of hot spots. Given the scope of the areas in which Israeli operations are taking place, I'd expect to see a much more active battlefield.
opsec from the IDF and very few survivors from hamas
https://twitter.com/i/status/1721657370827219213
^meanwhile....at Shifa Hospital. Just another night at the drive-in. Innocent Gazans enjoyed a pleasant evening screening of the October 7 massacres.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzRW3pkLXXV/ (https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzRW3pkLXXV/)
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 06, 2023, 01:10:45 PMQuote from: Groggy on November 05, 2023, 04:01:07 PMThe biggest part of the problem the way I see it is that Israel has a very right wing aspiring autocrat who needs a war to stay in power. And an extremists right wing fundamentalist autocratic government who refuses to hold elections and needs war to further their reign from their safe locations in Qatar. So the problem is the leadership. That is where we should focus.
So, just to be sure I understand your claim, you think Netanyahu, the elected president of an actual democratic republic which guarantees human rights to its citizens including freedom of religion, engineered a more-severe-than-usual Hamas attack on his people in order to keep from being voted out of office, and this is one of the things we should be focusing on?
And if so, would you consider that to be the biggest part of the problem, or only equally big of a problem as the actual genocidal fascist leadership by actual autocrats who (as actual autocrats) cannot be voted out of their reign and aren't in the area being attacked by their opponents unlike Netanyahu, and who have absolutely no concept of the protection of other people's fundamental rights?
One of the most concerning aspects of Netanyahu's leadership has been his impact on Israel's democratic institutions. His long tenure as PM (1996-99 and 2009-2021) has seen a significant erosion of the checks and balances within the Israeli political system. He has been criticized for his attempts to weaken the judiciary, undermine the press, and challenge the independence of law enforcement agencies, all of which are hallmark behaviors of autocratic leaders seeking to consolidate power.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 06, 2023, 01:13:12 PMI'm just waiting for Groggy to call Netanyahu a Nazi.
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :idiot2:
I don't disagree with much of what you said about Netanyahu above, but why would any of that matter now after the worst terror attack in 20 years and the subsequent wave of anti-Semitism and victim-shaming? Not to mention the absolute barbarity of Hamas?
I do think it's worth continuing to keep an eye on Benny, in an effort to make sure that personal political aspirations don't cloud his conduct of the current special operation in Gaza.
I also believe that his own political theatrics in the months leading up to the Hamas attack contributed to a lack of Israeli readiness, but it's ultimately up to the Israeli people (and Netanyahu's recently convened Unity Cabinet) to decide that for themselves.
Quote from: Groggy on November 07, 2023, 07:20:15 AMQuote from: JasonPratt on November 06, 2023, 01:10:45 PMQuote from: Groggy on November 05, 2023, 04:01:07 PMThe biggest part of the problem the way I see it is that Israel has a very right wing aspiring autocrat who needs a war to stay in power. And an extremists right wing fundamentalist autocratic government who refuses to hold elections and needs war to further their reign from their safe locations in Qatar. So the problem is the leadership. That is where we should focus.
So, just to be sure I understand your claim, you think Netanyahu, the elected president of an actual democratic republic which guarantees human rights to its citizens including freedom of religion, engineered a more-severe-than-usual Hamas attack on his people in order to keep from being voted out of office, and this is one of the things we should be focusing on?
And if so, would you consider that to be the biggest part of the problem, or only equally big of a problem as the actual genocidal fascist leadership by actual autocrats who (as actual autocrats) cannot be voted out of their reign and aren't in the area being attacked by their opponents unlike Netanyahu, and who have absolutely no concept of the protection of other people's fundamental rights?
One of the most concerning aspects of Netanyahu's leadership has been his impact on Israel's democratic institutions. His long tenure as PM (1996-99 and 2009-2021) has seen a significant erosion of the checks and balances within the Israeli political system. He has been criticized for his attempts to weaken the judiciary, undermine the press, and challenge the independence of law enforcement agencies, all of which are hallmark behaviors of autocratic leaders seeking to consolidate power.
I agree with all of that (so far as I know), but by your own description, he supposedly instigated this war to keep from being voted out, which means he is not in fact an autocrat yet. And you didn't clarify whether he's supposed to be the biggest part of the problem, or only equally as much of a problem as the genocidal actual autocrats who have been going out of their way to hit Israeli civilians while enslaving their own populations far more than any populations in Israel are enslaved (if any at all).
I don't appreciate Gazan civilians being killed by Israel either, but there's a qualitative difference of intention between Israeli government (even run by Netanyahu) and the terrorists in charge of Gaza.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 07, 2023, 02:34:27 PMI don't appreciate Gazan civilians being killed by Israel either, but there's a qualitative difference of intention between Israeli government (even run by Netanyahu) and the terrorists in charge of Gaza.
like putting rocket launchers in and around mosques.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1721654675076718887
Been loving seeing the ads from Mosab Hassan Yousef, the Arab, Muslim Palestinian son of the founder of Hamas.
He's been taking to the airwaves to directly tell people that Hamas uses human shields to increase civilian casualties and reports its own fighters as civilian dead. He's been revealing the insane depravity of their tactics from someone who was raised as a Hamas fighter and is calling on his fellow Palestinians to break their indoctrination.
I hope it works but suspect it won't.
He'll be labeled a Palestinian Uncle Tom or whatever the slang for 'traitor to your own kind' is.
I'm surprised the guy is still breathing.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on November 08, 2023, 02:26:42 PMI'm surprised the guy is still breathing.
He's extremely protected and has had multiple fatwah's put on him. He served for a time as a intel mole and has been vocal about how many Palestinians feed info to the Shin Bet because they live in terror but can't get out.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1722270489362710663
Do I recall correctly that radio intercepts about the parking lot crater outside the hospital earlier, indicated that the rockets had been fired from a mosque or its grounds nearby?
(I know I recall hearing the intercepts on something like that, the local Pal troops investigating the impact were complaining about putting the launchers there. But I can't recall if that was for the hospital 'strike' or something else. Could also have been fake intercepts, of course.)
I dont recall the where but it was a hamas rocket, or some sub sect of them.
https://malcolmnance.substack.com/p/hamas-needs-children-to-die?r=adfbl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 08, 2023, 03:36:46 PMDo I recall correctly that radio intercepts about the parking lot crater outside the hospital earlier, indicated that the rockets had been fired from a mosque or its grounds nearby?
(I know I recall hearing the intercepts on something like that, the local Pal troops investigating the impact were complaining about putting the launchers there. But I can't recall if that was for the hospital 'strike' or something else. Could also have been fake intercepts, of course.)
They were fired from a cemetery near a mosque.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on November 08, 2023, 04:27:07 PMQuote from: JasonPratt on November 08, 2023, 03:36:46 PMDo I recall correctly that radio intercepts about the parking lot crater outside the hospital earlier, indicated that the rockets had been fired from a mosque or its grounds nearby?
(I know I recall hearing the intercepts on something like that, the local Pal troops investigating the impact were complaining about putting the launchers there. But I can't recall if that was for the hospital 'strike' or something else. Could also have been fake intercepts, of course.)
They were fired from a cemetery near a mosque.
A cemetery, near a mosque, inside of a nursery, located adjacent to a playground, across the street from a soup kitchen.
and crewed by 17 year olds
So, apparently Hamas let freelance 'photojournalists' be a part of their massacre party on Oct 7. Photos were used by AP and Reuters.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/8/ap-reuters-photographers-scene-hamas-attack-spurri/
Hamas is pretty reprehensible, and Israel is not the only neighboring country that bears responsibility for the mess in Gaza right now. From a purely practical standpoint, I do wonder what the next step is.
Groups like ISIS, Hamas, and the Taliban strike me as a more dangerous version of cockroaches. You can take a wrecking ball to a place and kill a lot of them. You can continue to spray and keep their numbers down.
But if, at the end of the day, you don't do enough to change the root causes of the problem, they'll just return whenever you're done. And, if you didn't do a good job cleaning up the wreckage, it might be even harder to stop them next time.
Assuming that the Israelis are able to go in and largely eliminate Hamas as a functioning organization, I wonder what the next steps should be?
Quote from: steve58 on November 09, 2023, 10:30:56 AMSo, apparently Hamas let freelance 'photojournalists' be a part of their massacre party on Oct 7. Photos were used by AP and Reuters.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/8/ap-reuters-photographers-scene-hamas-attack-spurri/
I saw that too Steve. It's quite disgusting but that just tells you that many people knew in advance that this was going to happen. I don't believe in coincidences.
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on November 09, 2023, 12:55:08 PMI wonder what the next steps should be?
That's easy. Israel has since day one trying to give the Palestinians a better life despite what absolute garbage you hear from MSM.
It's the terror organizations and the abuse of their own people who don't want the truth to be told. But little by little and day by day the truth is coming out on just how beastly these organizations are. One Hamas leader was estimated to be worth 11 billion dollars and lives a life of luxury in a posh hotel 1800 km away from the suffering people in Gaza.
Have you seen that speech in the UN by a Palestinian official who berates the UN for not intervening and getting rid of terror organizations like Hamas? He even goes on to say that if it weren't for Israel and the jobs it provides that the Palestinians would be worse off than they are now.
Quote from: W8taminute on November 09, 2023, 04:05:24 PMQuote from: steve58 on November 09, 2023, 10:30:56 AMSo, apparently Hamas let freelance 'photojournalists' be a part of their massacre party on Oct 7. Photos were used by AP and Reuters.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/8/ap-reuters-photographers-scene-hamas-attack-spurri/
I saw that too Steve. It's quite disgusting but that just tells you that many people knew in advance that this was going to happen. I don't believe in coincidences.
Israel has said the so-call journalists will be added to their target lists. :knuppel2:
Quote from: W8taminute on November 09, 2023, 04:05:24 PMHave you seen that speech in the UN by a Palestinian official who berates the UN for not intervening and getting rid of terror organizations like Hamas? He even goes on to say that if it weren't for Israel and the jobs it provides that the Palestinians would be worse off than they are now.
no but I would like to. any links for it?
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/israel-gaza-situation-report-hamas-lost-control-in-the-north-idf-says
West Bank medic takes a gun from a downed militant, then hands it to another militant who continues shooting.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a war crime?
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17rff07/west_bank_medic_takes_weapon_from_downed_militant/
How quickly did it take the interwebz to break into a frothing riot accusing the IDF of war crimes after that Hamas 'medic' was shot?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 09, 2023, 05:31:48 PMQuote from: W8taminute on November 09, 2023, 04:05:24 PMHave you seen that speech in the UN by a Palestinian official who berates the UN for not intervening and getting rid of terror organizations like Hamas? He even goes on to say that if it weren't for Israel and the jobs it provides that the Palestinians would be worse off than they are now.
no but I would like to. any links for it?
Yup, right here
its a case where theres no way that Israel is going to get in front of the information war.
Hamas, like other armageddon-ish death cults, succeeds by success. That's a big reason why they, and other Muslim militant groups, shoot rockets at Israeli civilians whenever they think they can get away with it. It's one thing to kill and die for victory, though, and quite another to just die. They may get some recruits from Muslims wanting to die as a guarantee of being in their own personal heaven, and seeing a handy opportunity to do that (which is why British troops used to add pigs' blood to some of their rounds, to discourage that factor!) But if Hamas is being ground down they aren't winning, and that's a sign they aren't really chosen by God to be the ascendant champions of Islam.
Same thing happened with ISIS/ISIL: once it became obvious they were going to lose, they didn't get so many new recruits, and ceased to function at more than an occasional tactical level. Admittedly they were being more armageddon-ish in their overt approach than Hamas seems to be, claiming they were initiating the final fight against the Satans and that their coming victory would be a miraculous sign of God's approval for all Muslims to join their new caliphate.
Of course, there are other root problems to address, although Israel can't feasibly address one major root problem: malignantly tribal anti-Judaism. But making Hamas clearly lose, and lose big, will reduce Hamas' own recruitment drives, at least for a while.
Ive been seeing a lot more Pali's blaming hummus for their woes now.
I knew nothing about the Ireland/Palestinian connection.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-oVNokWgAAjmJh?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-oVPbtXkAAHLKK?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
about those hummus casualty figures......
:Loser:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1723680858874298654
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 12, 2023, 11:11:54 AMabout those hummus casualty figures......
:Loser:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1723680858874298654
I suppose you will next be telling us that pro wrestling is also fake.... :laugh:
Pro wrestling has more credibility.
Here's a pretty balanced warts-and-all 16 minute digest of how Qatar went from being a key ally of the War on Terror to hosting and funding the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas -- including the recent attack on Israel.
Note: the "Israel Is Scared" clickbait title can and should be completely ignored. This channel makes good docs on a regular basis but still insists on doing the dumbest clickbaity titles I may have ever consistently seen.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 12, 2023, 11:11:54 AMabout those hummus casualty figures......
:Loser:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1723680858874298654
Is there some kind of confirmation that this was indeed a propaganda staging? I've seen a bunch of clips like this going around being claimed as such, and many of them turned out to be from the set of a movie some Palestinians were making back in like 2017.
Given the amount of bombing going on it seems weird that they would need to stage more blood and death. Plenty of that going around.
...and the result of Pallywood is then this :HideEyes:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1722504313027616948
on top we (the West) have let way to many of the wrong migrants, refuguees, whatchamacallits in our countries
and suddenly you have 300 000+ pro-Palestine march through London
on Saturday even 1000 in my hometown :shocked:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1723408700235194537
the only good news
Greta fuc#ß& up pretty much her international Climate Movement, and debunked that it was all about mongering known extrem left positions under the cover of claimed climate change urgencies.
(https://i.ibb.co/TH7HtJ8/F-WGa7-Aaw-AED4-VB.jpg)
I guess this is how you genocide these days....
QuoteThe Israel Defense Force has launched an Operation to Transfer potential Hundreds of Incubators for Newborn Babies as well as other Medical Equipment to the Al-Shifa Medical Center in the Northern Gaza Strip; Israel Ground Forces are still only 3-4 Blocks from the Hospital and are continuing to Advance from the East and West.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-25ctfW0AAXIJY?format=jpg&name=medium)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1724223439924347033
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 14, 2023, 11:59:03 AMhttps://twitter.com/i/status/1724223439924347033
It runs much deeper than just "fashion". It is an outcome of decades of generational brainwashing that has associated western civilization with the oppression of minorities while treating all who oppose western civilization as righteous victims fighting a just battle against their evil oppressors. This is obviously a very naive and simplistic view that requires a great deal of ignorance among its adherents.
Only this woke brand of ideology is capable of justifying the heinous acts of barbarism perpetrated by Hamas.
I do think there is a "woke crowd" that has gone overboard. I don't think they're nearly as numerous or as influential as right-leaning media makes them out to be, but they're certainly there.
Of course, lots of people can be in favor of trying to moderate Israel's conduct in Gaza without having bought into "the West is the root of all Evil" argument. I'm not sure I can do more to dispute this theory without taking us into R&P land, but I'd suggest that even a short screed against Woke Ideology moves us heartily in that direction.
I'm okay talking R&P if you are, but you can't keep dropping hints and then clamping down when people respond.
Unless you want to be like Star? :Party: :justice:
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on November 14, 2023, 02:13:36 PMI do think there is a "woke crowd" that has gone overboard. I don't think they're nearly as numerous or as influential as right-leaning media makes them out to be, but they're certainly there.
Of course, lots of people can be in favor of trying to moderate Israel's conduct in Gaza without having bought into "the West is the root of all Evil" argument. I'm not sure I can do more to dispute this theory without taking us into R&P land, but I'd suggest that even a short screed against Woke Ideology moves us heartily in that direction.
I'm okay talking R&P if you are, but you can't keep dropping hints and then clamping down when people respond.
Unless you want to be like Star? :Party: :justice:
I guess when Star does it, I could just remove it. Sometimes, I prefer to respond, rather than censor.
I will correct you where you are wrong though...I can drop hints and clamp down when people respond. It is my prerogative. I think overall, I'm very fair and reasonable.
seems the IDF is now clearing the al-Shifa hospital.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1724457130168631302
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-7yBfNW8AAqbAd?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F-7yC2jWcAAUlVT?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
IDF engineers enjoyed this one.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1724810523265679554
...they put a living baby in an oven an turned it on in front of its parents. And this is who they support with their protests.
We can break it down repeatedly forever and it still will not get through.
^Great video.
Filled with logic, truth, and common sense. Yet the masses around the world can't or won't hear it, so fixated are they on their hate. So willing are they to believe in lies rather than listen to the truth.
One nation's constitution calls for peace and harmony while another nation's constitution calls for no solution other than war and destruction.
As dismayed and heartbroken as I am from seeing all of this hate erupt out of no where I am firmly convinced we are living in the residue of a great conflict of spiritual origin between light and dark. It has manifested itself in our reality where the representatives of the light are clearly being separated from the representatives of the dark.
Light = logic, truth seeking, love
Dark = death, uncontrollable hatred, lies and the spreading of them
^Well, the hate didn't manifest out of nowhere.
Quote from: Gusington on November 15, 2023, 03:36:38 PM^Well, the hate didn't manifest out of nowhere.
No it did not, but it was suppressed somehow all these years. Current events seem to have exposed it.
I have to respectfully disagree once more...it was barely suppressed in the West. And not suppressed at all in Arab countries and encouraged in places like Iran and Pakistan.
the hate wasnt suppressed it was fermented by groups like the plo and hamas. like most fermented things, shake it enough and it explodes.
Point taken guys.
Let me retract and rephrase.
I'm heartbroken because I see not just on the social media and news but also in real life a hatred that wasn't apparent before in people I would not have suspected. This is more or less what I was trying to convey in my previous posts.
Yes there has always been this hate before, Yassir Arafatso, your run of the mill redneck, etc. But today I see it where I didn't expect it. Including friends of friends in real life.
That's what killing me.
You never know until you look and you probably won't like what you find.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_KEpa9WwAAtycz?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_KEqpmXYAA_FBu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Sign at the Yale/Harvard football game yesterday.
https://twitter.com/aaronsibarium/status/1725948749325742190
seems like a good deal.
hamas triage in effect!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_SaviMXIAAJZ7N?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1726260367683362921
The Enforcer summarizes information about the somewhat-Israeli car-carrier hijacked by the Houthies just recently:
The IDF says no Israeli citizens on the ship (but some Ukrainians among others). It arguably as stronger British and Japanese connections.
Israeli hostage deal coming?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/21/world/israel-hamas-hostages
seems to be the word around town.
which tells me the IDF is going to pushing extra hard until it happens.
I wonder if they knew all along they would be soundly thrashed by the IDF so they took as many hostages as they could on 7.Oct. They're using these hostages as a bargaining chip to get a couple days of ceasefire.
This is how they plan on trying to survive as long as possible and they planned it from the beginning like this. All of this is just my speculation.
Or am I giving these guys too much credit for craftiness?
I think they didnt expect the initial success that they had and bit off way more then they could chew.
I also have the suspicion that the hostages were written off from the start. if the IDF could get them, great!
if they couldn't then its all the more reason to finally crush hamas in its entirety.
Yup, that makes sense. Harsh, but I believe true.
A cease fire, as mentioned in the CNN article Gus shared, would be disasterous. The IDF really should just focus and remove the threat permanently.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on November 21, 2023, 04:27:28 PMI think they didnt expect the initial success that they had and bit off way more then they could chew.
I also have the suspicion that the hostages were written off from the start. if the IDF could get them, great!
if they couldn't then its all the more reason to finally crush hamas in its entirety.
I've kinda wondered about that myself with the IDF blowing the tunnels. How did the IDF know which tunnels to blow and which may contain hostages?
I dont think they worried about it. I would have to dig around for the article and supporting videos but the gist of it was that the IDF is leveling buildings and tunnels to help the ground troops move forward with longer fields of fire and visibility. the fact that strongpoints and command centers happen also to be in the way is a bonus.
another way to look at it is this: will the IDF care about maybe killing a few dozen Thai farm worker hostages if it means saving hundreds of IDF troops from ambush? no fucking way.
Are many of the tunnels that Hamas is using not former IDF tunnels?
I also agree with the above when Star says no one was more shocked at their success than Hamas.
can you expand on "former IDF tunnels" please.
'Former IDF tunnels' meaning that the tunnels that Hamas is now using were constructed and used by the IDF when Israel still occupied Gaza...say, 2005 and before.
all Ive found with google is substructure work done to the hospital that was recently taken.
I read it on CNN earlier today.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_f5F7yXYAAmARu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_f5HXeWYAA5LZA?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
First 50 hostages, mostly babies and elderly, will be released at 3am local time today in exchange for one day of ceasefire, and the deal is structured to have one ceasefire day added for every additional ten hostages released. Netanyahu is speaking publicly about the deal now.
Palestinian prisoners also part of deal:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/politics/us-has-working-list-of-hostages-likely-to-be-released-by-hamas-thursday-source-familiar-says/index.html
what nice people
QuoteHamas just executed two Palestinians in the city of Tulkarem in the West Bank in accusation of collaborating with Israel.
They hung their bodies on an electricity pole for everyone to see and all gathered to picture it.
Hamas is responsible for killing thousands of Palestinians.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_u5H7BW8AA0xpS?format=jpg&name=medium)
Media: today Palestinian women and children are being released from captivity! ...in exchange for women and children held by Hamas.
Technically true. But the women and children, including infants with their mothers, being released by Hamas, were held captive for the crime of being Jewish. The Palestinian women being held were imprisoned for committing crimes like stabbing people (typically Jews), and the Palestinian children are late-teen boy soldiers not actual infants.
How much the proportion shown in the video holds true, I don't know.
Saw this video today and the message is so true. There is no argument that can be made about this issue. Either the world will believe it or not. I will say this though, if the world chooses not to believe they're in for a rude awakening.
Worth keeping in mind that Hamas set the terms 3 to 1.
Israel's version of SNL satire was understandably acidic about the ceasefire purposes (and the BBC). I don't have a direct link, but the first part of it can be found at 7:55 in this video.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1728548380694253700
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAPr-F_WgAAWWwc?format=png&name=small)
I see a boardgame incomming :grin:
"The Gaza"
lead IDF forces removing Hamas from the Gaza strip.
minimise your losses, free hostages, time is running against international political pressure for an onesided undeclared armistice
the map is already generously generaded for us by the IDF :cool:
https://www.idf.il/ar/%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%B4-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A/%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%B4-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%81%D8%A7%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A/swordsofiron-181123-118/
maybe form White Dog Games analog to "The MOG" (my treasuer hunt from the Essen fair this year :-) )
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/OsjYdvd47_CsolLMuHzerA__imagepage/img/8y4MtJmN23D7EoYNImmwUlCKg8I=/fit-in/900x600/filters:no_upscale():strip_icc()/pic7393389.jpg)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/674db9_356bc944ef03462f9a0fb14fbde09257~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_652,h_814,al_c,q_90,enc_auto/back%20box%20snap.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAiP56GXoAAX1Z4?format=jpg&name=large)
IDF is flooding the Hamas tunnels.
https://twitter.com/academic_la/status/1732129584777441406
about time. iirc its what the Egyptians did on their side.
of course now it'll be a war crime because Jews....
So, odds on Hamas making sure some hostages drown for the optics? 120% chance, or more like 160%?
I'm not against Israel doing it, but might as well get ready. I haven't kept up on news recently, are all American citizens recovered? If not, would Hamas sacrifice a few here for the optics? "Look, America, Israel drowned your own citizens, make them stop!"
This response on the genocide of Jews from Harvard, MIT, UPENN...is unbelievable.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/06/investing/bill-ackman-harvard-penn-antisemitism/index.html
^I saw that article earlier this morning as well. Truly disgusting.
Congresswoman Elise Stefanik posted on social media condemning the presidents of Harvard, MIT, and UPenn.
Here is her questioning of Harvard president Claudine Gay.
https://stefanik.house.gov/2023/12/icymi-stefanik-demands-answers-from-harvard-president-claudine-gay-on-harvard-s-failure-to-condemn-antisemitism-and-anti-israel-attacks-on-campus
Disgusting yes, but not surprising as they are the ones doing the indoctrinating/brain washing. :tickedoff:
^True. I hate when you're correct.
The elements required to permit a repeat of the Holocaust are far closer than most could imagine. Every American Jew should be trained and armed. I view this not only as a right, but a responsibility.
I can't believe this conversation is even happening. Totally unreal. But I guess this is blowback from extreme woke-ness.
and also from the normalization of hate speech by certain political leaders.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 06, 2023, 06:31:44 PMand also from the normalization of hate speech by certain political leaders.
Yes. Especially certain congressmen and women.
I don't have an "X" account so I can't retrieve this but I copied his tweet from somewhere else.
David Frum [https://twitter.com/davidfrum?lang=en]
"The reason 3 university presidents had trouble with the genocide question is not because of an over-zealous commitment to free speech. Universities punish people all the time for First Amendment protected speech. They had trouble because anti-Jewishness is baked into the ideology of much of their staff and faculty, and criticizing anti-Jewishness would criticize them."
Quote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 09:22:07 AMI don't have an "X" account so I can't retrieve this but I copied his tweet from somewhere else.
David Frum [https://twitter.com/davidfrum?lang=en]
"The reason 3 university presidents had trouble with the genocide question is not because of an over-zealous commitment to free speech. Universities punish people all the time for First Amendment protected speech. They had trouble because anti-Jewishness is baked into the ideology of much of their staff and faculty, and criticizing anti-Jewishness would criticize them."
Imagine the response if the question had been, "do you consider calls for the genocide of all black people harassment or bullying in violation of the code of conduct?"
Would they have said, "it depends on the context, and if it becomes conduct or is constant or pervasive..."? It is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 11:20:24 AMIt is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
It is shocking and only now is the fruits of these wicked ideologies coming into the light.
People can no longer use their brains because no one is teaching them critical thinking. Instead these educational institutes teach hate and hide truth.
Quote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 11:59:31 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 11:20:24 AMIt is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
...
People can no longer use their brains because no one is teaching them critical thinking. Instead these educational institutes teach hate and hide truth.
It's not just critical thinking they aren't teaching-it is also basic facts, such as the nature of communism, as well as basic facts regarding the US, the constitution. Without being taught basic facts, it becomes impossible to teach how to think critically.
Quote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 11:59:31 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 11:20:24 AMIt is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
It is shocking and only now is the fruits of these wicked ideologies coming into the light.
People can no longer use their brains because no one is teaching them critical thinking. Instead these educational institutes teach hate and hide truth.
Out of curiosity, which "ideologies" are you referring to specifically?
Quote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 12:23:18 PMQuote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 11:59:31 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 11:20:24 AMIt is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
It is shocking and only now is the fruits of these wicked ideologies coming into the light.
People can no longer use their brains because no one is teaching them critical thinking. Instead these educational institutes teach hate and hide truth.
Out of curiosity, which "ideologies" are you referring to specifically?
I can't speak for W8, but personally, I believe it stems from ideologies like CRT and the like, that basically teach that all people with white skin are oppressors and all people with dark skin are oppressed. This, in my view, is why the left has become so radically anti-Israeli (ie. anti-Jewish) and so blatantly pro-Palestinians. In their view, Israelis (ie. Jews), who are predominantly fair skinned, are oppressors, while Palestinians, who are predominately dark skinned, are oppressed victims. This view that sees Palestinians as an oppressed people fighting a righteous struggle against white oppressors leads many to justify the acts of groups like Hamas as "just" and understandable in light of the larger picture and "75 years of oppression".
This is a generalization in a lot of ways, but fundamentally, I think this is a big part of it.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 12:23:18 PMQuote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 11:59:31 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 11:20:24 AMIt is just so shocking. It is as if people can no longer use their brains.
It is shocking and only now is the fruits of these wicked ideologies coming into the light.
People can no longer use their brains because no one is teaching them critical thinking. Instead these educational institutes teach hate and hide truth.
Out of curiosity, which "ideologies" are you referring to specifically?
Tripoli and Jarhead both nailed the ideologies I'm thinking about. Wokeness in general can also be included.
My children have come home to me on many an occasions in the past repeating the filth they learned in school to me. It's heartbreaking but they won't listen to logic. Even more brilliantly the woke agenda has taught them that "your parents may attempt to sway you away but remember they are from a time of barbarism". I'm paraphrasing but you get the idea.
Meanwhile, I literally just received an email from my childrens' school district informing us that yesterday, antisemitic graffiti and swastikas were discovered in one of the high school bathrooms and that the police are conducting an investigation. I live in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in the country. The school district is ranked at the top nationally and statewide and my neighborhood was recently voted most desirable in the state of New York. There is a fairly high Jewish population here, and yet, kids here are still exposed to and susceptible to such expressions of ignorance and hate. It is definitely behavior that is taught and learned.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 01:27:24 PMIt is definitely behavior that is taught and learned.
I absolutely agree. Furthermore most of these children have no idea that they're being taught that the good guys are the bad guys and the bad guys are the good guys. The school preys on the naivete and the innocence of a child's mind.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2023, 01:27:24 PMyesterday, antisemitic graffiti and swastikas were discovered in one of the high school bathrooms
That's both heartbreaking and disturbing.
Well, looks like the UPenn commissar is on the hot seat. Hope they deep six her.
Penn board of trustees hold emergency meeting over calls for president to resign
The University of Pennsylvania 's Board of Trustees held an emergency meeting as school president Elizabeth Magill faces calls to resign after testifying before congressional lawmakers this week.
The meeting began at 9 a.m. and was being held virtually, the Daily Mail reported.
Magill, and other Ivy Leagues school presidents, are facing mounting pressure to resign after they failed to condemn anti-Jewish chants on campus as harassment.
Quote from: W8taminute on December 07, 2023, 01:08:21 PMWokeness in general can also be included.
Maybe this is getting off topic, but I really wish the word "woke" would just be retired from discourse. Originally it meant "socially conscious/aware" and now it means absolutely nothing but a catch-all for stuff one disagrees with. Just say what you think the root of the problem is.
thank you Al!
The root of the problem is it is now cool to hate Jews. Everything old is new again.
washed ... from the river to the sea :laugh:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1732270476167397541
Quote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 04:44:53 PMMaybe this is getting off topic, but I really wish the word "woke" would just be retired from discourse
I agree with you. That word is going to continue to be used as long as possible. At least until it is no longer vogue.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 04:44:53 PMJust say what you think the root of the problem is.
The root of the problem is hate or, to put it another way, an extreme lack of love.
In the context of this thread it is anti-Semitism.
Outside the context of this thread it means hate of anything that the movement disagrees with. To be socially aware (reminds me of Victoria 1 where I first heard that term in reference to your POPs) is one thing. To use the term as a blanket catch all (which I am guilty of but using it in antithesis to today's bastardized meaning) is a result of furthering an agenda, that's another thing.
Quote from: W8taminute on December 08, 2023, 09:16:31 AMQuote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 04:44:53 PMMaybe this is getting off topic, but I really wish the word "woke" would just be retired from discourse
I agree with you. That word is going to continue to be used as long as possible. At least until it is no longer vogue.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 07, 2023, 04:44:53 PMJust say what you think the root of the problem is.
The root of the problem is hate or, to put it another way, an extreme lack of love.
In the context of this thread it is anti-Semitism.
Outside the context of this thread it means hate of anything that the movement disagrees with. To be socially aware (reminds me of Victoria 1 where I first heard that term in reference to your POPs) is one thing. To use the term as a blanket catch all (which I am guilty of but using it in antithesis to today's bastardized meaning) is a result of furthering an agenda, that's another thing.
I think of "woke" as being more than the hate of something a movement disagrees with. While that is part of it, I believe it also combines that hatred with an element of narcissism. The "woke" use their hatred to show how much better they are than the subjects of their hatred. As such, the woke enter into a ever-increasing spiral of hatred as only by hating can they show their increasing virtue over others. Of course, this is ultimately unsupportable. Because of this narcissistic element, the "woke" will eventually consume itself. However, the damage it will do to others and to society in general on the way down will be horrendous.
^That is as good a description I have read of the phenomenon anywhere.
Well stated Tripoli. I'm not good with putting my thoughts into writing but you hit the nail on the head with that.
I thought Rabbi Wolpe's statement about his resignation from the Harvard Antisemitism Advisory Committe was very well stated. He seems to agree with my sentiment about the role of oppressor vs. oppressed in the equation.
QuoteAs of today I have resigned from the antisemitism advisory committee at Harvard. Without rehashing all of the obvious reasons that have been endlessly adumbrated online, and with great respect for the members of the committee, the short explanation is that both events on campus and the painfully inadequate testimony reinforced the idea that I cannot make the sort of difference I had hoped. Still, there are several points worth making. I believe Claudine Gay to be both a kind and thoughtful person. Most of the students here wish only to get an education and a job, not prosecute ideological agendas, and there are many, many honorable, thoughtful and good people at the institution. Harvard is still a repository of extraordinary minds and important research.
However, the system at Harvard along with the ideology that grips far too many of the students and faculty, the ideology that works only along axes of oppression and places Jews as oppressors and therefore intrinsically evil, is itself evil. Ignoring Jewish suffering is evil. Belittling or denying the Jewish experience, including unspeakable atrocities, is a vast and continuing catastrophe. Denying Israel the self-determination as a Jewish nation accorded unthinkingly to others is endemic, and evil.
Battling that combination of ideologies is the work of more than a committee or a single university. It is not going to be changed by hiring or firing a single person, or posting on X, or yelling at people who don't post as you wish when you wish, as though posting is the summation of one's moral character. This is the task of educating a generation, and also a vast unlearning. Part of the problem is a simple herd mentality – people screaming slogans whose meaning and implication they know nothing of, or not wishing to be disliked by taking an unpopular position. Some of it is the desire to achieve social status by being the sole or greatest victim. Some of it is simple, old fashioned Jew hatred, that ugly arrow in the quiver of dark hearts for millenia.
In this generation, outside of Israel, we are called to be Maccabees of a different order. We do not fight the actual battle but we search for the cruse of oil left behind. Remember the oil was to last one night, but lasted eight - which means there were seven nights of miracle. But of course the first night was the greatest miracle — because the motivation to light the initial candle, to ensure the continuity and vitality of tradition in each generation, that is the supreme miracle. Dispute but also create. Build the institutions you value, don't merely attack those you denigrate. We are at a moment when the toxicity of intellectual slovenliness has been laid bare for all to see. Time to kindle the first candle. Create that miracle for us and all Israel — Blessing to you and Hag Urim Sameach.
^ I saw him speak last night on CNN, I hope his messages get spread far and wide.
'Belittling or denying the Jewish experience, including unspeakable atrocities, is a vast and continuing catastrophe.'
^Can't overstate the importance of that idea either. The re-writing or outright denying of history is insane and is so common now.
Quote from: Gusington on December 08, 2023, 11:45:06 AM^ I saw him speak last night on CNN, I hope his messages get spread far and wide.
'Belittling or denying the Jewish experience, including unspeakable atrocities, is a vast and continuing catastrophe.'
^Can't overstate the importance of that idea either. The re-writing or outright denying of history is insane and is so common now.
So you're the one watching CNN. :Eye_anim:
Yes, it was lonely.
Related to the previous discussion, but if this statistic is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve it) then this is utterly frightening. About 1 in 5 Americans under 30 believe the Holocaust is a myth or exaggerated.
https://twitter.com/elikowaz/status/1733265260101210507
^Incredible. Hard to even figure out how to respond to that, with the millions of photos and other documentation that the Nazis themselves created. Maybe these are the same people that are flat-earthers? Idiocy for the sake of idiocy really is all the rage.
most people cant be bothered to learn history or care about it.
If I ask my daughters right now: 'What do I always say?' they will, with 100% certainty, respond 'People are morons.'
I hate being proven right every single day, like 25 times.
But I guess it comes in handy when dealing with things from the most mundane (bad drivers) to epic levels of idiocy like denying the Holocaust.
Best to know that these people are out there and just prepare accordingly.
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2023, 01:54:26 PMIf I ask my daughters right now: 'What do I always say?' they will, with 100% certainty, respond 'People are morons.'
I hate being proven right every single day, like 25 times.
But I guess it comes in handy when dealing with things from the most mundane (bad drivers) to epic levels of idiocy like denying the Holocaust.
Best to know that these people are out there and just prepare accordingly.
How is your and your family's Krav Maga?
Jew-jitsu
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 09, 2023, 12:15:35 PMmost people cant be bothered to learn history or care about it.
They can't learn what is not taught or denigrated by their so-called teachers.
Quote from: steve58 on December 09, 2023, 03:42:02 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on December 09, 2023, 12:15:35 PMmost people cant be bothered to learn history or care about it.
They can't learn what is not taught or denigrated by their so-called teachers.
American schools still spend a ton of time teaching the holocaust. It's absolutely not the fault of the education system except insofar as not teaching critical thinking skills.
IMO it's more the fault of social media giving platforms to people who spread misinformation and disguise it as being some secret knowledge hidden by mainstream media/schools.
My family's krav maga ain't bad. My younger daughter is a unit and with the right training could be very dangerous.
The Wife has always been shredded and I joke to friends that she is my bodyguard...except I really mean it :3musketeer:
My older daughter, like me, is too kind to really do anyone any real harm unless directly threatened.
And our dog is a huge doofus but doesn't like anyone approaching any of us that he doesn't know. He knows he's Jewish.
I agree with you Al on education, at least in our district. It is excellent here but there is no combatting the sea of total idiots on line. The best I can do about that is laugh and point at them, and then quietly curse them later on for being so stupid and contagious.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 09, 2023, 04:32:13 PMQuote from: steve58 on December 09, 2023, 03:42:02 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on December 09, 2023, 12:15:35 PMmost people cant be bothered to learn history or care about it.
They can't learn what is not taught or denigrated by their so-called teachers.
American schools still spend a ton of time teaching the holocaust. It's absolutely not the fault of the education system except insofar as not teaching critical thinking skills.
IMO it's more the fault of social media giving platforms to people who spread misinformation and disguise it as being some secret knowledge hidden by mainstream media/schools.
C'mon, even CNN says otherwise (http://www.cnn.com/2021/05/29/us/holocaust-marjorie-taylor-greene-states-trnd/index.html). Granted the article is from 2021, but 31 states don't even require that the Holocaust be taught? More than half of American adults don't know how many people died in the Holocaust? 11% of millennial and Gen Z respondents said they believe Jews caused the Holocaust? I'd bet that number has gone up since Oct 7.
Last time I was teaching I was competing directly with YouTube and having to spend time explaining to my students that the world was really, definitely round. When you're starting from that position it's an uphill fight for almost anything.
So no, it doesn't shock me that people increasingly believe the Holocaust didn't happen. I had quite a bit of those too, even back in Private School in the early '00's but I can assure you it wasn't for my lack of teaching it or even having resources or backing of administration.
Quote from: steve58 on December 09, 2023, 05:04:43 PMQuote from: al_infierno on December 09, 2023, 04:32:13 PMQuote from: steve58 on December 09, 2023, 03:42:02 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on December 09, 2023, 12:15:35 PMmost people cant be bothered to learn history or care about it.
They can't learn what is not taught or denigrated by their so-called teachers.
American schools still spend a ton of time teaching the holocaust. It's absolutely not the fault of the education system except insofar as not teaching critical thinking skills.
IMO it's more the fault of social media giving platforms to people who spread misinformation and disguise it as being some secret knowledge hidden by mainstream media/schools.
C'mon, even CNN says otherwise (http://www.cnn.com/2021/05/29/us/holocaust-marjorie-taylor-greene-states-trnd/index.html). Granted the article is from 2021, but 31 states don't even require that the Holocaust be taught? More than half of American adults don't know how many people died in the Holocaust? 11% of millennial and Gen Z respondents said they believe Jews caused the Holocaust? I'd bet that number has gone up since Oct 7.
That article does not say schools are not teaching about the Holocaust. The article is primarily talking about how Holocaust comparisons cheapen its history, and points out that many states don't have laws officially requiring the Holocaust to be taught in schools. That's not the same thing as "schools aren't teaching about the Holocaust."
The trend I see on hellhole sites like Twitter and TikTok among budding antisemites is the notion that the Holocaust is actually over-emphasized, thus it's the work of a Jewish cabal who want to brainwash you.
Also, I don't really find not knowing the exact number of deaths in the Holocaust to be compelling evidence that the Holocaust is simply not being taught. For one, the number varies depending on how wide a net you cast (e.g. do you include non-Jewish slavs, queer people, etc or do you keep it strictly on Jewish deaths?), but I would guess the majority of people who aren't grognards or history buffs simply don't tend to keep things like mass murder death tolls in their back pocket.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 09, 2023, 05:29:18 PMThat article does not say schools are not teaching about the Holocaust. The article is primarily talking about how Holocaust comparisons cheapen its history, and points out that many states don't have laws officially requiring the Holocaust to be taught in schools. That's not the same thing as "schools aren't teaching about the Holocaust."
Exactly this. Alabama does not mandate the teaching of the Holocaust, yet I promise you I was teaching it at both Private and Public school at all levels taking World History.
It was in every textbook we had, it was on the test materials in public school that we were required to use, and I don't know of any World History teacher that didn't cover it when they got to it in the material.
What is true is that the vast majority of the history teachers at the places I taught weren't degreed in the subject and often times knew about as much about History as someone who frequents the Armchair Historian channel. They covered the text and heck, half the time would use YouTube as their lecture. So it's hard for kids to be educated in it when the educators don't have a lot of background themselves.
The last time I taught was just about 20 years ago and YouTube and TikTok didn't even exist, but would you believe it if I told you...there were still Holocaust deniers then?
Growing in Brooklyn amongst tons of Jews, it used to be hard for me to believe that deniers like this existed in the wider world.
Now that I am in the strict minority up in semi-rural NY State...well...it's crystal clear all these years later that deniers clearly exist.
But for the majority of deniers I think they are not coming at the issue from a purely evil perspective. Similar to what was posted above, most people who lean that way just don't give an f...in anything, really. They are more concerned about Dunkin' running out of their favorite drink or the McRib coming back. This is the world we live in.
I still think it is a smaller, hardcore group that are true believers in Jewish extermination. Since October that number has most likely gone up.
Or maybe I'm just being naive again. Maybe I should just watch video of Nazi marches in Charlottesville or Asheville again.
I dunno :buck2:
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2023, 06:26:16 PMThe last time I taught was just about 20 years ago and YouTube and TikTok didn't even exist, but would you believe it if I told you...there were still Holocaust deniers then?
I would. I was teaching 20 years ago as well and not only did I have deniers, but I had a couple of full on youth KKK members.
I even got a warning from a parent once that I better "Teach the Holohoax right".
I was young and full of piss and vinegar back then so I probably kicked a few hornets nests with those people that I should've thought better about doing.
Was that warning in person?
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2023, 06:51:22 PMWas that warning in person?
Oh yes. And no I didn't get myself fired by slugging him.
I however made sure I needled in other ways.
^I thought for sure you received an email or a letter...amazing. Only once in my whole life have I been faced with that kinda hate in person and the other guy didn't even know I was Jewish.
Quote from: Gusington on December 09, 2023, 07:42:23 PM^I thought for sure you received an email or a letter...amazing. Only once in my whole life have I been faced with that kinda hate in person and the other guy didn't even know I was Jewish.
It's Alabama. I'm white. He said the quiet parts out loud. He assumed I was just ok with it.
The thing was, he wasn't any kind of low rent scumbag. He was a respected well known local contractor with a butt ton of cash and connections to the local government. His two sons weren't much better.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on December 09, 2023, 07:56:14 PMIt's Alabama. I'm white. He said the quiet parts out loud. He assumed I was just ok with it.
Ive experienced this a lot over the years.
Quote from: al_infierno on December 08, 2023, 11:16:11 PMRelated to the previous discussion, but if this statistic is true (and I have no reason to disbelieve it) then this is utterly frightening. About 1 in 5 Americans under 30 believe the Holocaust is a myth or exaggerated.
https://twitter.com/elikowaz/status/1733265260101210507
Been away for a few days so sorry for the late response.
This is truly sad.
Hits it out of the park...
hes been pretty good since the end of the writers strike.
I just watched the above on The Insta and loved it. Bill Maher annoys me on occasion but the above is stellar.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBhRMpvXkAACFZk?format=jpg&name=small)
Just got around to watching that Bill Maher clip. For once I totally agree with him.
seems the houthis are close to the find out phase.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBp4mpzXcAAPVVF?format=jpg&name=small)
a more complete idea of whats in the region:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBo9MOcWYAA2zjT?format=jpg&name=medium)
this should be entertaining.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1737071183076405605
The hoodies are a bunch of jackasses. They are gonna get spanked for sure. Good to see this coalition at least agree on protecting shipping in the Red Sea.
While browsing around I found this video. I had to share it here. The God of Israel will not be mocked!!
QuoteU.S. Central Command
@CENTCOM
U.S. assets, to include the USS LABOON (DDG 58) and F/A-18 Super Hornets from the Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group, shot down twelve one-way attack drones, three anti-ship ballistic missiles, and two land attack cruise missiles in the Southern Red Sea that were fired by the Houthis over a 10 hour period which began at approximately 6:30 a.m. (Sanaa time) on December 26. There was no damage to ships in the area or reported injuries.
more pieces on the board.
time to fire up CMANO again.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCaBk8PW4AA9I_v?format=jpg&name=large)
Alborz's journey to Allah would certainly be nasty, brutish, and short... :HideEyes:
per CENTCOM:
The USS MASON (DDG 87) shot down one drone and one anti-ship ballistic missile in the Southern Red Sea that were fired by the Houthis between 5:45 - 6: 10 p.m. (Sanaa time) on Dec. 28. There was no damage to any of the 18 ships in the area or reported injuries. This is the 22nd attempted attack by Houthis on international shipping since Oct. 19.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on December 29, 2023, 06:27:58 PMper CENTCOM:
The USS MASON (DDG 87) shot down one drone and one anti-ship ballistic missile in the Southern Red Sea that were fired by the Houthis between 5:45 - 6: 10 p.m. (Sanaa time) on Dec. 28. There was no damage to any of the 18 ships in the area or reported injuries. This is the 22nd attempted attack by Houthis on international shipping since Oct. 19.
Just my opinion, but we need to start considering shooting at the Archer, and not just the arrows....
Just got a notification that India is also now sending ships to the Red Sea.
Quote from: Tripoli on December 29, 2023, 06:48:45 PMJust my opinion, but we need to start considering shooting at the Archer, and not just the arrows....
its coming
Let's not forget the fletcher.
If you whack the archer hard enough maybe other archers will be more reluctant to accept free arrows from the fletcher.
Quote from: Staggerwing on December 30, 2023, 10:29:24 PMIf you whack the archer hard enough maybe other archers will be more reluctant to accept free arrows from the fletcher.
That would be nice, but the Saudi's have given them quite the pasting already and they're still going.
But here we go: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67851897
QuoteThe US Navy has destroyed Houthi "small boats" attempting to board a container ship in the Red Sea.
Four vessels from Houthi-controlled areas in Yemen fired upon the Maersk Hangzhou and got to within metres of the ship, the US military said.
Helicopters from nearby US warships responded to a distress call and after being fired upon, sunk three of them "in self-defence".
The crews were killed and the fourth boat fled the area.
...
Centcom said while the ships were responding to the distress call, two anti-ship missiles were fired from Houthi-controlled areas at the pair of US navy vessels.
The USS Gravely destroyed the inbound ballistic missiles, Centcom said, adding it was the twenty-third "illegal attack by the Houthis on international shipping" since 19 November.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCstFPbWsAAI-80?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCstC5WXEAAdzhA?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GCstD-yXAAAGiJl?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Israelis wake up.
QuoteUnprecedented numbers of Israelis want to arm themselves. A record 274,279 Israelis have filed for a handgun license between October 7 and December 25. And that number continues to grow at a pace of 500 to 600 per day on average.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/shocked-by-oct-7-failures-israelis-rush-to-buy-guns-with-government-encouragement/
I've been seeing a lot of accusations against Israel accusing them of committing genocide against the pals. My news sources say otherwise but I'm really dismayed at the lies I'm seeing on the internet about this war.
I know I can be cryptic at times (and there is a reason for that) so to be clear, I stand by Israel.
no matter what else is said, it's been a master class in urban warfare!
QuoteMain combat operations in the north of Gaza have come to an end, though there is still an IDF presence.
The IDF has encircled Al Bureij camp and advanced south along the Salah Al Deen Road.
The IDF has also continued to expand its control in the Khan Yunis area.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDi4oG6WAAAyeM2?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDi4o6FW4AAi0cv?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDi4qAqWwAAMZXS?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDi4rUBWcAAlPEv?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
I hope some BDA photos are release from last nights party.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 11, 2024, 11:12:17 AMno matter what else is said, it's been a master class in urban warfare!
I'm curious how you define "master class". I very clearly support Israel without any reservation and I have less than zero sympathy for Palestinians who support and help maintain the hold Hamas has on power. However, I'm also a realist.
20,000 Gazans dead, 5,000 of them children. 80% of the population, that's millions, displaced. It was an aggressive brutal operation in the extreme that has caused more destruction in less time than any other war in modern history. If level everything and kill anyone in your way is your measure of master class, then I guess I agree. There was very little finesse.
Furthermore, it must be stated that the maximalist goals set by Netanyahu cannot be achieved by this operation alone. In fact, the utter destruction of Hamas and the demilitarization and deradicalization of Gaza can probably never be achieved. So how do you even measure the success of all this death and destruction if it doesn't even accomplish the stated military objective?
Personally, I think the US military retaking of Mosul is a far better example of a successful operation in an urban environment.
Again, I'm not troubled by this at all. Fuck with the bill, get the horns. But like I said, I'm a realist and honest about it.
a master class as in clearing that much dense urban terrain while minimizing your own losses in a somewhat short timeframe.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 12, 2024, 07:32:14 AMa master class as in clearing that much dense urban terrain while minimizing your own losses in a somewhat short timeframe.
Out of curiosity, what are IDF total losses? I actually haven't looked into that.
In any event, if you pretty much destroy everything in your path, that is certainly one way to minimize losses, but I don't think it's a MOUT strategy that other military forces will emulate.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 12, 2024, 08:03:06 AMI don't think it's a MOUT strategy that other military forces will emulate.
no its not nor should it be 95% of the time. I think this is a case where there really wasnt much choice for the IDF though.
QuoteSince the start of the ground operation, 184 soldiers have been killed, and 1,085 soldiers have been injured in Gaza, according to the Israeli military.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 12, 2024, 09:16:28 AMno its not nor should it be 95% of the time. I think this is a case where there really wasnt much choice for the IDF though.
Agreed. The IDF is in a unique and very challenging position, both military and political. However, with that said, this operation can hardly be described as a "master class" in urban warfare.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on January 12, 2024, 09:16:28 AMQuoteSince the start of the ground operation, 184 soldiers have been killed, and 1,085 soldiers have been injured in Gaza, according to the Israeli military.
What about tanks, IFVs, aircraft (if any). Curious about those losses, as well.
no real info on equipment losses yet.
Very tragic day for the IDF. 21 reservists killed in a single incident. Apparently, they were wiring two buildings for destruction when Hamas attacked a tank. The destruction of the AFV triggered the detonation of the explosives that had been wired to take down the buildings, which then collapsed on top of the unit, killing them all.
IDF casualties now approach 220.
my understanding was the tank took a hit that caused it to misfire resulting in the detonation.
either way, it sucks.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGEH7lPWEAAaGSW?format=jpg&name=medium)
more seriously, I'm not feeling the push into Rafah is a good idea on any level.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGD53KcWUAErG9H?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
The absolute worst kind of combat.
Rafah must be taken which would then complete the destruction of Hamas. When you look at how the world, the U.N. and the U.S.A. in particular have been pressuring Israel tremendously to not go in it's quite obvious that they don't want Hamas eliminated. What a great blow it would be to Iran if one of their proxies was absolutely destroyed. And destroyed it must be because of their wickedness they committed on October 7.
The Old Testament is filled with examples of God commanding Israel to destroy the Caananites, the Amorites, etc. because of their worship of Baal. The modern day version of that is organizations that celebrate wanton death and destruction must be destroyed. Or else evil will continue to be a thorn in everybody's side.
I'm so proud that Israel rejected calls to send a delegation to Egypt on Thursday to negotiate peace. Why negotiate a cease fire when only 4 brigades are left including the leader? It sounds to me that world opinion be damned, because it is damnable, Israel will complete the job. Then onto to the dweebs in Lebanon.
A very good source for news... https://www.jns.org
And this article... https://www.jns.org/israel-wont-give-in-to-delusional-hamas-demands-netanyahu-says/
as I said, a master class.
keep in mind that everything going boom here is a secondary detonation.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1759600594593910986
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613?twclid=247c5be7cx1bljafcxm69joku8
2024-03-07
There is supposed to be a State of the Union speech tonight. From what I've heard about what is going to be announced, it might be a good idea for interested parties to this thread to watch it tonight.
I'd be interested in hearing your reactions but only through private messages. Do not post in this thread.
So did any of us have a modern Mulberry harbor on their bingo card?
No :/
will be interesting to see how this is pulled off.
this isnt the kind of thing you announce without some kind of workable plan already set up.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sotu-biden-announce-emergency-us-military-mission-build/story?id=107889126
Yep that is what I was alluding to yesterday. I'm not sure I'm happy about this.
I am.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 07, 2024, 05:17:44 PMSo did any of us have a modern Mulberry harbor on their bingo card?
Hope it comes with a few Patriot missile batteries.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GILk8UvXsAACHfO?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Further news stories that, imho, provide evidence of just how important this war really is.
https://israel365news.com/386438/five-small-red-cows-that-rocked-the-world/
"According to the Mishnah, the written version of the Jew's oral teachings, the red heifer sacrifice has only been performed nine times in the history of the Jewish people to provide ashes for consecration. The ashes from the red heifer are needed to dedicate the Third Temple."
https://allisrael.com/blog/what-do-five-red-heifers-have-to-do-with-the-oct-7-massacre
"What do five red heifers have to do with the Oct. 7 massacre?"
Damn - I have never heard of that.
Interesting. Wonder if that Christian Texas rancher has been breeding to try and get the unblemished red heifers?
Quote from: Gusington on March 15, 2024, 03:22:31 PMDamn - I have never heard of that.
Neither have I. But according to all the news sources I've been reading this is a big deal.
Quote from: nelmsm on March 15, 2024, 10:04:31 PMInteresting. Wonder if that Christian Texas rancher has been breeding to try and get the unblemished red heifers?
I'm not sure, could be. This Texan rancher was found by someone over at the Temple Institute in Israel though.
Christian ranchers have been working on breeding the red heifer, explicitly for the purpose of the sacrifice, since the 1980's. See https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1998/07/20/forcing-the-end
:uglystupid2:
Well as one very committed Christian I know, with a PhD in Chem, told me: "Man cannot control God's plans."
:hair:
Brothers, I know exactly where you're coming from, however let's tread carefully here. Remember the rules of this website. :cool:
Btw that was a good article, thanks for sharing Tripoli.
Ok Star, I understand what you're saying. Without trying to push something on you you don't want let's at least just say isn't it interesting to say the least? Even if it seems like fantasy you gotta admit it's interesting. Let me explain...
I do know there are over 600 laws to be kept in Judaism. And like that article mentioned, a number of those laws do require the presence of a temple.
Now the problem is that on the temple mount we have two Islamic structures. This is a huge source of contention. If there is to be a new temple built, what happens to those two mosques?
careful what you think you wish for. not directed at anyone here, just a warning about interpreting prophecy.
(https://wasmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/chosenone.jpg)
^I hear you.
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
:Dreamer:
Several guys in my Sunday School class know one of the ranchers who was helping with the heifer breeding program, his ranch being less than 20 miles west of where I'm sitting between us and the Mississippi River!
Leaving aside the religious aspects, the geopolitical point (which could trigger any amount of Middle Eastern combat) is that a group of orthodox Jewish Levites including priestly family members in Israel, have planned to set up a pre-fab version of the Temple but need a good heifer to sacrifice for the ashes first -- I've been told the one who will come of age first was bred from stock at the nearby ranch I mentioned, btw -- and they aren't necessarily going to wait until something happens to the Dome of the Rock. Nor are they going to try to do anything to the Dome itself. Rather they've plotted out room on Mount Zion for a minimum version of the Temple and will set that up over to the side, once the heifer comes of age to sacrifice on Olivet (over across the Kidron valley).
As far as I know, that still involves taking over part of Mount Zion from 'Palestinian' control, and even if it didn't (I'm not totally sure of who has control of the specific plot of land they have in mind) the Muslim world will not very well tolerate the return of a functioning Temple in Jerusalem.
So those heifers are a ticking clock counting down to a massive upsurge of instability coming to the Middle East sometime very soon.
I am curious as to why China and Russia would veto the US ceasefire proposal at the UN security council. I think it is something more than tit for tat for rebuffing the Russian iniative in November. https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142427
Since the Chinese has supported a ceasefire previously, it is perplexing as to why they would block it. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/china-calls-concrete-roadmap-two-state-solution-solve-gaza-conflict-2023-11-30/
As PM Netenyahu is ready to have the IDF push into Rafah and his political backers want to depopulate Gaza, Egypt will have to make a choice soon. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-68631712?src_origin=BBCS_BBC
QuoteIsrael's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has told the US Secretary of State that Israel will go into Rafah.
Netanyahu told secretary Antony Blinken, who is in Israel, that he hoped there would be US support. But he also said Israel was prepared to enter the city without support from their key ally.
There are about 1.5 million Palestinians sheltering in the city of Rafah, which has become a massive refugee camp.
People from cities and villages in the north fled to Rafah for refuge.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-repeats-call-palestinians-leave-gaza-2023-12-31/
Let me reiterate my support for Israel's right to defend itself from the barbaric attacks of Hamas and further the right to rescue its citizens from brutal captivity. However, as Egypt has threatened to end the peace treaty with Israel if the latter enters Rafah as the Egyptians will end up with the Palestinians, who they like the Jordanians, do not want. https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/egypt-threatens-to-suspend-peace-treaty-with-israel/7484199.html Netenyahu should carefully consider whether Israel can afford to lose this treaty.
I would only be guessing about probabilities of Egypt going to war with Israel but despite the peace treaty, Egyptian sentiment is staunchly anti-Israeli. A war with Egypt would be exploited by all anti-Israeli states and groups. Would China and Russia benefit from the chaos of if not war then the crisis of Rafah invaded? More speculation on my part; hopefully, I'm full of it, and would love to hear so. Iran would definitely like to see such crises, but I'd really be pushing speculation to believe Iran has such clout with Russia and China.
^A key point there that keeps getting buried is that no one wants to help or shelter Palestinian refugees.
Quote from: Gusington on March 22, 2024, 11:28:31 AM^A key point there that keeps getting buried is that no one wants to help or shelter Palestinian refugees.
Quote from: Uberhaus on March 22, 2024, 11:13:29 AMHowever, as Egypt has threatened to end the peace treaty with Israel if the latter enters Rafah as the Egyptians will end up with the Palestinians, who they like the Jordanians, do not want.
The Jordanian experience with Palestinian refugees is Black September, Egypt doesn't want militants in the Sinai again. Neither want the nullification of the possibility of a Palestinian state. https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d
QuoteTheir refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood. El-Sissi also said a mass exodus would risk bringing militants into Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, from where they might launch attacks on Israel, endangering the two countries' 40-year-old peace treaty.
Israel is in a difficult position to rescue its citizens and further degrade Hamas, especially if Egypt's leadership is confusingly saying both that the peace treaty will be voided if Rafah is invaded, but in so causing an exodus would endanger the peace treaty due to future militant attacks into Israel.
At this point I doubt Israel gives a hoot what Egypt wants or thinks and I don't blame them.
Quote from: Gusington on March 22, 2024, 12:30:19 PMAt this point I doubt Israel gives a hoot what Egypt wants or thinks and I don't blame them.
I understand, I can even understand if Israel, while it cannot completely eradicate Hamas; it can send a message to populations that support or just tolerate atrocities against the Israeli people. Brutal realpolitik, but it is also realpolitik for Israel to consider the possibility of a widening war.
I don't think Israel has ever really cared what anybody else wants or thinks.
(https://media.defense.gov/2007/Aug/03/2000463747/2000/2000/0/670608-N-0000P-001.JPG)
The shot-up and napalmed USS Liberty which I won't ever understand, as if my understanding matters at all. Other than not to interfere.
Respectfully, one thing I am trying to fathom is what interest Russia and China have in vetoing the US's ceasefire proposal right before Israel is threatening to invade Rafah?
You may have hit it on the head with Russia and China just attempting to sow more chaos in general.
Quote from: Uberhaus on March 22, 2024, 01:43:24 PMRespectfully, one thing I am trying to fathom is what interest Russia and China have in vetoing the US's ceasefire proposal right before Israel is threatening to invade Rafah?
The interest is probably in prolonging the war, destabilizing the region and turning back the clock on Israeli/Arab relations.
they know it would cause huge problems for Biden domestically during an election cycle.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 22, 2024, 02:26:58 PMthey know it would cause huge problems for Biden domestically during an election cycle.
(https://media.tenor.com/Q7B_-T4G9xIAAAAM/spit-take.gif)
and how's that comment incorrect?
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on March 22, 2024, 03:20:02 PMand how's that comment incorrect?
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/AqrTsKGfPNPuvyul5O/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952hmavzmhtt6f9rf4e0m7vxbavq2i6dehrtys6ib4g&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
At the risk of ending up with JudgeDredd writing my epihtet epitaph: "He was an opinionated ..."
It's up in the air with what China wants in regard to your election.
Quote from: Uberhaus on March 22, 2024, 01:43:24 PMRespectfully, one thing I am trying to fathom is what interest Russia and China have in vetoing the US's ceasefire proposal right before Israel is threatening to invade Rafah?
I'd like to offer a different opinion.
If you observe the Russian, Chinese, and American behavior as of late you can conclude the reason why for all this confusing cease fire talk.
At the beginning of this war America sent naval and land assets to the eastern Mediterranean in support of Israel, or so it would have seemed. Notice today you don't hear anything about the US in the eastern Mediterranean in a show of force for support of Israel.
Instead we see today that America is frantically seeking a two state solution as the only way to end this and future wars. Excuse me what? WTF business does America have forcing Israel against her consent to have a two state solution rammed down it's throat? Do they not realize that you don't reward a terract (Oct. 7) with a state?
Because of this Russia and China vetoed the ceasefire that America proposed. It's no secret that Russia and China support Hamas and they did not like the American solution to it because it also talked about releasing the hostages.
Clearly ever since Hamas found itself on it's death bed all three of these nations have been working to try to save Hamas, only in their own separate ways.
The more time is wasted with these senseless talks the more time Hamas has to escape. That's why earlier in this thread I vocally wanted the IDF to finish the job and smash Hamas in Rafah.
Now whether you believe or not the Old Testament clearly says in Zechariah 12:3
"And it shall come to pass on that day that I will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for all peoples; all who bear it shall be gashed, and all the nations of the earth shall gather about it."
וְהָיָ֣ה בַיּֽוֹם־הַ֠הוּא אָשִׂ֨ים אֶת־יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֜ם אֶ֚בֶן מַֽעֲמָסָה֙
לְכָל־הָ֣עַמִּ֔ים כָּל־עֹֽמְסֶ֖יהָ שָׂר֣וֹט יִשָּׂרֵ֑טוּ וְנֶֽאֶסְפ֣וּ עָלֶ֔יה
כֹּ֖ל גּוֹיֵ֥י הָאָֽרֶץ:
By America insisting on a two state solution with East Jerusalem as the capital of a palestinian state, they are troubling themselves with Jerusalem.
We are seeing Bible prophecy literally leap off the pages.
looking for the source for this
QuoteHamas rejects Israel's 6 week ceasefire offer which was based on exchanging 40 hostages for 700 Palestinian terrorist prisoners.
This means that the ground invasion of Rafah will start soon.
found this:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-tells-mediators-it-will-stick-original-position-ceasefire-2024-03-25/
Yeah, I can understand Hamas not wanting to release 40 hostages for 700 terrorist prisoners who will get plastered soon afterward.
Meanwhile, on Temple news (due to the powder-keg geopolitics which will go off): currently there are three red heifers old enough to sacrifice for the purification ashes, but until just recently they lacked a proper formula for the scarlet dye needed for a string that would be part of that sacrifice. (Comes from a worm.)
Strictly speaking the sacrifice of the heifer doesn't have to happen on Mount Olivet, since it sure didn't happen there in the days of the Tabernacle, although I don't know if there would be political difficulties in using Olivet as the site.
Speaking of the Tabernacle though, the group setting up the rebuild and function of the Temple, have been using Shiloh for years (in Israel, not Tennessee {g}) to do practice runs, and their current plan seems to be that they can set up a new Tabernacle to reinstitute the sacrifices in Shiloh (or really several other places within Israeli control) without even needing to rebuild the Temple (though they still want to do that, too, when feasible.)
Even setting up a functional tabernacle will cause tons of friction in the region to escalate, so keep an eye out for more of that soon!
For what it's worth, a functioning tabernacle has no bearing on (future) Christian prophecies that I'm aware of, which might be an interesting choice for other reasons.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 26, 2024, 12:32:56 PMWorth a watch.
Definitely worth the watch. Lots of truth in that interview. Thank you for sharing.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 28, 2024, 12:42:09 PMYeah, I can understand Hamas not wanting to release 40 hostages for 700 terrorist prisoners who will get plastered soon afterward.
I think that the bad guys also know once they release how ever remaining hostages they have left that their (bad guys) days are severely numbered.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 28, 2024, 12:51:14 PMFor what it's worth, a functioning tabernacle has no bearing on (future) Christian prophecies that I'm aware of, which might be an interesting choice for other reasons.
I agree. It's a functioning Temple that we really need to watch for. [Daniel 9:27]
Breaking: Israeli airstrike in Damascus near Iranian embassy today.
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794796
"An alleged Israeli airstrike targeted a three-story building near the Iranian embassy in Damascus on Monday afternoon, according to Syrian reports."
Hamas has been sending its senior leadership to Iran for meetings. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-leader-haniyeh-travel-tehran-meetings-with-iranian-officials-press-tv-2024-03-26/ Damascus is a little closer though.
BBC is reporting 7 IRGC killed including a senior commander and his deputy. I'm curious if any members of Hamas or Hezbollah were killed or have been there recently. BBC is suggesting that the strike that killed Soleimani in 2020 and the airstrike on Qaddaffi in 1986 de-escalated the situations.
Swerving wildly into conspiracies, I wonder if Israel has found evidence that Iran was not only complicit in training and planning of Hamas but had foreknowledge of the October 7 attacks. Israel would probably announce such a discovery to the world, though.
Scary escalation, but fairly typical of Israeli tactics.
Israel might have found enough information to justify the action internally, but not enough for public justification -- which I agree they'd definitely show, if so. But I don't doubt Israel would hit that place on sufficient internal justification.
Also possible that they had justification which while decisive they wouldn't be able to show publicly without compromising their intel assets/capabilities.
Edgy day to be Canada -- embassy was next to Iran's. ("was" :cool: )
Iran promises "harsh" reprisal.
that Canadian embassy has been closed since 2012 or so.
Meanwhile, congratulations to Israel spec-ops for clearing out Shifa Hospital with zero civilian casualties! :ThumbsUp: :notworthy:
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 01, 2024, 10:24:42 PMthat Canadian embassy has been closed since 2012 or so.
Ah, I was going to say, "Whew, that's good news!" but then I wasn't entirely sure if having an embassy closed (and for that long) counted as good news overall. Good news for that mission anyway.
Does raise the theoretical question of whether Israel would have zorched Iran's embassy had Canada still been next door. My guess would be "yes depending on how necessary."
timing is everything.... :tongue:
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1776014247505408239?t=WjBwJxaDM_TOmM8N6GJM-g&s=09
ya'll might want to check the news as iran launched a drone swarm towards Israel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68810053
From CNN:
Biden will meet with national security leaders in the Situation Room, White House says
From CNN's Lauren Koenig
US President Joe Biden will meet with National Security Council officials in the White House Situation Room upon his return from Rehoboth, Delaware, according to a statement from the White House.
The president was also briefed about the situation in the Middle East earlier by national security adviser Jake Sullivan and principal deputy national security adviser Jon Finer, the White House said.
The White House added that Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown will be among those in the Situation Room, along with Sullivan and Finer.
Vice President Kamala Harris and Biden's Chief of Staff Jeff Zients "will attend by secure video," the White House said.
Also from CNN...US intercepting Iranian missiles and drones:
US continues "to shoot down Iranian-launched drones targeting Israel," defense official says
From CNN's Oren Liebermann
The US is continuing "to shoot down Iranian-launched drones targeting Israel," a US defense official said Sunday.
"In accordance with our ironclad commitment to Israel's security, US forces in the region continue to shoot down Iranian-launched drones targeting Israel," the official said. "Our forces remain postured to provide additional defensive support and to protect US forces operating in the region."
Iran says they are done, warns US...also from CNN:
Iran says its attack on Israel is a response to Israel's strike on the Iranian consulate in Damascus, and "the matter can be deemed concluded."
Iran's Permanent Mission to the United Nations in New York said the early Sunday attack was a response to Israeli "aggression against our diplomatic premises in Damascus."
Israel earlier this month struck an Iranian building in the Syrian capital Damascus, with a military spokesperson saying Israel believed the Iranian building hit in the attack was a "military building."
The Iranian mission said the matter was "deemed concluded."
"However, should the Israeli regime make another mistake, Iran's response will be considerably more severe. It is a conflict between Iran and the rogue Israeli regime, from which the U.S. MUST STAY AWAY!" Iran's Permanent Mission added in its statement on X.
:ROFL:
Iran: manages to wound one 10-year-old girl.
Also Iran: "That's it we're done, now don't mess with us again or we'll be even more severe, waaaagh." {shows a snapshot of wildfires in Texas as footage of what they did tonight}
I like the RAF and USAF involvement. :smitten:
it sends many messages to many people
from what Ive been seeing the IAF decided to clear out its older stock and used Sparrows, Pythons and AIM-9l's last night.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLGXpkjXsAAWhRT?format=jpg&name=large)
I think it can be safe to say the Israel has the best air defense system in the world.
having RAF Typhoons and USAF F-15s helps. :cool:
Israel will rebuild!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLJo0vJXgAA6ymZ?format=jpg&name=small)
:ROFL:
as much as I'd like to see Iran get wrecked I think Israel should take the win and focus on Gaza. last night showed that six nations will step up right away and can coordinate a rather complex defensive opperation on very short notice. I wonder how much this cooperation is lost on people.
wish something similar could be demonstrated with Ukraine.
so, did Biden give the green light to the Iranian attack???
https://twitter.com/jerusalem_post/status/1779512742350635038
I don't know Steve but something doesn't add up.
Why would the media be advertising that such and such will happen soon and here is how its going to happen? In the old days wars would be fought and the public at large wouldn't be aware of what happened until after the fact.
Today with modern media reports we get a blow by blow description of what is happening and what to expect. Could secret meetings be taking place behind closed doors in which all interested parties agree to behave in a certain manner when attacking and defending?
Its almost like watching a movie with the media acting as the narrator to keep the masses up to date on what's happening.
its a lot of kissingeresque diplomacy, thats for sure.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1779845865353486571
Personally, I never think war is a laughing matter and to mock your enemies is the first step to underestimating their capabilities. A regime like Iran only needs to get lucky once in order to inflict real damage. Remember, on February 25, 1991, a single Iraqi Scud missile got through defenses and managed to demolish a makeshift United States barracks in Dhahran that housed more than 100 American troops. 28 American soldiers were killed, 110 were hospitalized and 150 experienced physical injuries. This one Scud's impact accounted for more than a third of all US soldiers killed during the Gulf War. Needless to say, I find these kinds of social media posts and images/gifs to be very immature and unbecoming.
The threat posed by Iran has never been one of conventional weapon systems, so it does not come as any real surprise that the missile and drone attack was largely ineffective...although you can be assured that those on the ground in harms way probably weren't telling jokes and making memes on their computers while the sirens were blaring.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Iran has adapted its military capabilities and doctrine to account for developments by the United States and its allies. Although still technologically inferior to most of its competitors, the DIA notes that the Iranian military has progressed substantially over the past few decades. Iran's use of unconventional warfare elements, proxy forces and asymmetric capabilities pose a persistent threat. Furthermore, each of these forces are becoming increasingly survivable, precise, and responsive. We've already seen how Iranian attacks and those of their proxies can impact global shipping and thereby the entire world economy. Not so much of a laughing matter in my view.
I bet your fun at happy hour.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 13, 2024, 10:00:51 PMI like the RAF and USAF involvement. :smitten:
it sends many messages to many people
True! -- but also, what message does the Jordanian help send? Is that a diplomatic shift in the region?
Quote from: JasonPratt on April 15, 2024, 08:17:52 PMTrue! -- but also, what message does the Jordanian help send? Is that a diplomatic shift in the region?
Israel and Jordan have had treaties for a while and the Saudis would like to get normalized relations as they have to begin moving away from being a petro state.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 15, 2024, 06:41:49 PMPersonally, I never think war is a laughing matter and to mock your enemies is the first step to underestimating their capabilities. A regime like Iran only needs to get lucky once in order to inflict real damage. Remember, on February 25, 1991, a single Iraqi Scud missile got through defenses and managed to demolish a makeshift United States barracks in Dhahran that housed more than 100 American troops. 28 American soldiers were killed, 110 were hospitalized and 150 experienced physical injuries. This one Scud's impact accounted for more than a third of all US soldiers killed during the Gulf War. Needless to say, I find these kinds of social media posts and images/gifs to be very immature and unbecoming.
The threat posed by Iran has never been one of conventional weapon systems, so it does not come as any real surprise that the missile and drone attack was largely ineffective...although you can be assured that those on the ground in harms way probably weren't telling jokes and making memes on their computers while the sirens were blaring.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Iran has adapted its military capabilities and doctrine to account for developments by the United States and its allies. Although still technologically inferior to most of its competitors, the DIA notes that the Iranian military has progressed substantially over the past few decades. Iran's use of unconventional warfare elements, proxy forces and asymmetric capabilities pose a persistent threat. Furthermore, each of these forces are becoming increasingly survivable, precise, and responsive. We've already seen how Iranian attacks and those of their proxies can impact global shipping and thereby the entire world economy. Not so much of a laughing matter in my view.
Got it, no laughing. Ya takes your mental hits and you keeps your mouth shut, see. Get it?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFQYPjVXkAAvEJs.jpg)
Quote from: MengJiao on April 16, 2024, 07:55:05 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on April 15, 2024, 06:41:49 PMPersonally, I never think war is a laughing matter and to mock your enemies is the first step to underestimating their capabilities. A regime like Iran only needs to get lucky once in order to inflict real damage. Remember, on February 25, 1991, a single Iraqi Scud missile got through defenses and managed to demolish a makeshift United States barracks in Dhahran that housed more than 100 American troops. 28 American soldiers were killed, 110 were hospitalized and 150 experienced physical injuries. This one Scud's impact accounted for more than a third of all US soldiers killed during the Gulf War. Needless to say, I find these kinds of social media posts and images/gifs to be very immature and unbecoming.
The threat posed by Iran has never been one of conventional weapon systems, so it does not come as any real surprise that the missile and drone attack was largely ineffective...although you can be assured that those on the ground in harms way probably weren't telling jokes and making memes on their computers while the sirens were blaring.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Iran has adapted its military capabilities and doctrine to account for developments by the United States and its allies. Although still technologically inferior to most of its competitors, the DIA notes that the Iranian military has progressed substantially over the past few decades. Iran's use of unconventional warfare elements, proxy forces and asymmetric capabilities pose a persistent threat. Furthermore, each of these forces are becoming increasingly survivable, precise, and responsive. We've already seen how Iranian attacks and those of their proxies can impact global shipping and thereby the entire world economy. Not so much of a laughing matter in my view.
Got it, no laughing. Ya takes your mental hits and you keeps your mouth shut, see. Get it?
If you want to demonstrate that you have the mental acuity and maturity level of a 12 year old, I won't stop you. Have fun.
I agree, what is about to happen is, for lack of a better term, a "Red Sea" moment for Israel. A serious moment for the world as well.
Between Iran bragging that if Israel strikes they (Iran) will use a weapon they have never used before and chatter about Israel's "Sampson" option means this is a big moment.
What happened on Saturday night was absolutely stunning. A defense system that is guaranteed (by the men who operate it) a 90% success rate at the very best just stopped pretty much 99.9% of Iran's incoming projectiles. It should not be taken for granted.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 16, 2024, 08:21:08 AM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFQYPjVXkAAvEJs.jpg)
I think even the ayatollahs are thinking we are a bunch of posers. I bet they realize that all the years of their bragging and tough talk came back to bite them. Still don't underestimate these losers.
I don't underestimate them but I also don't think highly of them either and I will mock them at every chance.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 16, 2024, 01:10:13 PMI don't underestimate them but I also don't think highly of them either and I will mock them at every chance.
Put in this light, I get it. I just think there should be acknowledgement of seriousness of the situation and the discussion should be balanced with that truth. I think the purpose of the attack was not to inflict any real damage or cause major destruction or loss of life. I think it was 100% political in order to save face and send a message. I believe if they really wanted to cause serious harm and risk escalation, Iran has means at its disposal to accomplish that, or at least, increase the chances of it.
oh I think they ment to do harm. what they didn't expect was Arab and NATO help.
Arab help warmed the wet ashes of what used to be my gray dead heart.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 16, 2024, 08:52:26 AMQuote from: MengJiao on April 16, 2024, 07:55:05 AMQuote from: Jarhead0331 on April 15, 2024, 06:41:49 PMPersonally, I never think war is a laughing matter and to mock your enemies is the first step to underestimating their capabilities. A regime like Iran only needs to get lucky once in order to inflict real damage. Remember, on February 25, 1991, a single Iraqi Scud missile got through defenses and managed to demolish a makeshift United States barracks in Dhahran that housed more than 100 American troops. 28 American soldiers were killed, 110 were hospitalized and 150 experienced physical injuries. This one Scud's impact accounted for more than a third of all US soldiers killed during the Gulf War. Needless to say, I find these kinds of social media posts and images/gifs to be very immature and unbecoming.
The threat posed by Iran has never been one of conventional weapon systems, so it does not come as any real surprise that the missile and drone attack was largely ineffective...although you can be assured that those on the ground in harms way probably weren't telling jokes and making memes on their computers while the sirens were blaring.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency, Iran has adapted its military capabilities and doctrine to account for developments by the United States and its allies. Although still technologically inferior to most of its competitors, the DIA notes that the Iranian military has progressed substantially over the past few decades. Iran's use of unconventional warfare elements, proxy forces and asymmetric capabilities pose a persistent threat. Furthermore, each of these forces are becoming increasingly survivable, precise, and responsive. We've already seen how Iranian attacks and those of their proxies can impact global shipping and thereby the entire world economy. Not so much of a laughing matter in my view.
Got it, no laughing. Ya takes your mental hits and you keeps your mouth shut, see. Get it?
If you want to demonstrate that you have the mental acuity and maturity level of a 12 year old, I won't stop you. Have fun.
Really? I can actually say anything I want? well...type it. I want it in writing that you won't stop me.
This is going to be good.
Godspeed! :ThumbsUp:
^Will you two just get a room already?
:submarine:
they won't rent rooms to 12 year olds.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 16, 2024, 05:45:46 PMthey won't rent rooms to 12 year olds.
Maybe try a youth hostel. Be resourceful. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 16, 2024, 06:25:25 PMQuote from: GDS_Starfury on April 16, 2024, 05:45:46 PMthey won't rent rooms to 12 year olds.
Maybe try a youth hostel. Be resourceful. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
I thought we were focusing on "maturity level" here, not chronology.
do keep up sweetie.
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/BzdybKbJj7gAAAAd/moving-goalpost.gif)
So what will be, the already planed and ordered, Israeli reaction?
I guesstimate a small flight will release a number of modified rather unexpected stealthy (for Iranian standards) cruise missiles, with penetrator capability (let's call it a Taurus 1.5) that will destroy a number of drones and/or ballistic missiles inside storage spaces.
Its not so much about to destroy a few dozen of drones but to demonstrate that they can hit any bunkered target deep inside Iran any time if they have to.
That is the message.
Quote from: MikeGER on April 17, 2024, 04:25:32 AMSo what will be, the already planed and ordered, Israeli reaction?
I guesstimate a small flight will release a number of modified rather unexpected stealthy (for Iranian standards) cruise missiles, with penetrator capability (let's call it a Taurus 1.5) that will destroy a number of drones and/or ballistic missiles inside storage spaces.
Its not so much about to destroy a few dozen of drones but to demonstrate that they can hit any bunkered target deep inside Iran any time if they have to.
That is the message.
Do they have to hit Iranian territory? This is kind of the problem more for Iran than Israel. Israel could just sorta ask the Saudis how much they would mind if somebody (I'm not saying who) beat up on Hezbollah. That way you kill 3 or four birds with one stone:
1) Iran's proxies start suggesting to Iran that maybe shooting at Israel isn't such a good idea. Sure, it's good publicity, but somebody much closer to Israel might get hurt.
2) Iran gets to go on wondering and also explaining that blowing up its proxies is the same as blowing up Iran (which no one will believe)
3) Israel reduces the threat from Hezbollah
4) everyone (even the US and Iran and the Saudis) is happy
5) except Hezbollah
I'd hit targets in Iran to show the Iranian people and the world that Iran can launch at us and do next to none damage but we can hit back much harder. The big risk of that is that Iran might decide to make a much bigger strike and lead to continual escalation.
Iran: "QUICK RUN A BUNCH OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN INTO OUR DRONE/MISSILE BUNKERS!" :buck2:
Israel hits back and the only sad news is that there might not be any more flyable F-14s in the world. :sad:
QuoteIranian State Media is reporting that tonight's Airstrike by the Israel Air Force may have Targeted the 8th Tactical Airbase of the Iranian Air Force, within Isfahan International Airport, which contains multiple Squadrons of F-14 "Tomcat" Fighter Aircraft.
fwiw they dont have squadrons of Tomcats.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 18, 2024, 11:35:56 PMIsrael hits back and the only sad news is that there might not be any more flyable F-14s in the world. :sad:
QuoteIranian State Media is reporting that tonight's Airstrike by the Israel Air Force may have Targeted the 8th Tactical Airbase of the Iranian Air Force, within Isfahan International Airport, which contains multiple Squadrons of F-14 "Tomcat" Fighter Aircraft.
fwiw they dont have squadrons of Tomcats.
Presumably there was something else there more worth blowing up.
Also, as you can imagine, Hezabollah is worried about being kind of left right next to Israel while things are happening. They have remarked that they didn't think any of this was going to happen and that they are just shooting at things occasionally and don't want any trouble.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 18, 2024, 11:35:56 PMIsrael hits back and the only sad news is that there might not be any more flyable F-14s in the world. :sad:
QuoteIranian State Media is reporting that tonight's Airstrike by the Israel Air Force may have Targeted the 8th Tactical Airbase of the Iranian Air Force, within Isfahan International Airport, which contains multiple Squadrons of F-14 "Tomcat" Fighter Aircraft.
fwiw they dont have squadrons of Tomcats.
Yeah, but they do have various Tomcat carcasses that they have no parts to repair. :ROFL:
just gonna leave this here....
:ROFL:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1781377432638959845
^Wow that guy is pissed.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on April 18, 2024, 11:35:56 PMfwiw they dont have squadrons of Tomcats.
Well, y'know, container units. :evil:
on famine and genocide
https://t.co/7pN54X1B1o
^^^^He's got a lot of excellent points even though his language is colorful. The fact is that there are a lot of Iranians who don't want any part of war against Israel or anyone. They just want to live their lives freely, like any other civilized people do.
The big takeaway from that video is that Islam flourishes through the sword, not through love.
Pray for those oppressed by these satanic mullahs. Also pray for the peace of Jerusalem and the salvation of Israel.
Interesting info. in this quick video. The point seems to be that Israel can strike anywhere in Iranian territory with impunity.
Thank you for sharing that video. His information confirms the information I got from my sources on that topic.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1782308765028765975
^ I expected something along that line and still lol'd harder than I thought I would.
this bullshit needs to be squashed fast
https://twitter.com/i/status/1783007217479975184
^Agreed, it's popping up at campuses everywhere like a bad rash. One more item for me to be worried about as my older daughter goes off to college this summer.
Star can you look up a gentlemen called Hen Mazzig on "X" for me? Since I don't have an "X" account I couldn't not pull a quote of his from a post he made yesterday that is related to what is happening at Columbia University and at other U.S. college campuses.
His post contains a list of bullet points that ring very true and he end's it with this statement:
"If you were honestly more concerned with advocating for Palestinians than you are hating a specific group of people, you would be disavowing these actions the loudest. But instead we hear a deafening ___________."
found but will have to link his profile when I get home later.
it may be Austin, but its still Texas. :ThumbsUp:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1783214460280172691
I just saw a clip on Telegram from one of my sources that shows students storming Harvard Yard after Harvard University banned a Palestinian club on campus. This is a bit too close to home for me.
The WifeTM and I were on campus this past Saturday shopping for souvenirs to send out as gifts and things were nice and quiet.
Biden's Gaza pier site attacked with mortars yesterday.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-exclusive-u-s-humanitarian-pier-attacked-during-construction-work-off-gaza-coast
But... but operational security and over the horizon capability and... you know... the thing!
Israel now controls the border crossing into Egypt at Rafah.
Forces are prepping for the final push south into the 'joint' area of Rafah (I mean where Gaza, Egypt, and Israel meet, I don't know the proper local name), where the final local Hamas forces are holed up with their remaining hostages and human shields.
Also, forces are prepping for a ground invasion into Lebanon! :shocked: Might as well take the opportunity to make a clean sweep! -- although I don't know what the operational goals would be (other than opportunity body counts against Hez.)