Berlin Wall has been destroyed longer than it was in place this month.
Celebrating the demise of Communism is a good thing. Like counting your blessings.
Current Russian autocrats kill, jail, starve, and send to mental institutions far fewer people than the commies did.
Brant got to it first :P
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=21555.0
Quote from: mirth on February 05, 2018, 11:04:04 AM
Brant got to it first :P
http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=21555.0
in fairness, my subject line was a little vague.
Airboy is right, we should be celebrating the end of communism
As a youngster I never thought I would live long enough to see the end of the "Cold War". The Cuban Missile Crisis happened when I was about 6 and scared the crap out of me. When Ronnie Reagan began his anti-communist campaigning people thought there would be a Nuke War in about a year but instead they ended-up in Reagan's 'Ash Can of History'. Without nuclear destruction. Reason to celebrate indeed. Vodkas all around!
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 05, 2018, 11:32:05 AM
we should be celebrating the end of communism
In Eastern Europe. It's still around elsewhere ;)
Too true! :hide:
I grew up in West Germany as a missionary kid. My parents traveled secretly behind the Iron Curtain for more than a decade to share the gospel with the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, and the USSR. Being US citizens, the risk to them was very small. But the people they ministered to and worshiped with needed to make long treks into the mountains or meet in darkened homes in the early hours of the morning to avoid detection, arrest, and imprisonment by the secret police, simply for practicing their faith. State atheism is a jealous god.
When the wall came down, my dad drove up to Berlin with a sledge hammer and brought back a big chunk of it. I still have a small piece.
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 05, 2018, 01:16:07 PM
I grew up in West Germany as a missionary kid. My parents traveled secretly behind the Iron Curtain for more than a decade to share the gospel with the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, and the USSR. Being US citizens, the risk to them was very small. But the people they ministered to and worshiped with needed to make long treks into the mountains or meet in darkened homes in the early hours of the morning to avoid detection, arrest, and imprisonment by the secret police, simply for practicing their faith. State atheism is a jealous god.
When the wall came down, my dad drove up to Berlin with a sledge hammer and brought back a big chunk of it. I still have a small piece.
Awesome O0
I remember being scared to death of nuclear war. Of course it didn't help that I devoured books like War Day and watched movies about it (Testament is particularly depressing as hell).
Most of my peers feared it, too. In JROTC they made us do a LOT of presentations. The ones I did on the North African campaign and Barbarossa bored the crap out of them (LOL) so I did one on nuclear war and holy hell were they engaged in it, asking tons of questions. It helped that I had found a copy of a supposed targeting map of San Antonio by the Commies. At the time good ol' SA had five military bases that were all highly important in various ways, so yeah, they would have wiped that city off the earth had that come (thank goodness it did not).
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 05, 2018, 01:16:07 PM
I grew up in West Germany as a missionary kid. My parents traveled secretly behind the Iron Curtain for more than a decade to share the gospel with the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, and the USSR. Being US citizens, the risk to them was very small. But the people they ministered to and worshiped with needed to make long treks into the mountains or meet in darkened homes in the early hours of the morning to avoid detection, arrest, and imprisonment by the secret police, simply for practicing their faith. State atheism is a jealous god.
When the wall came down, my dad drove up to Berlin with a sledge hammer and brought back a big chunk of it. I still have a small piece.
Thanks for sharing!
Great family story, AR.
I am old enough to remember nuclear drills in school and fallout shelters...both of which appear to be making a comeback, but named differently :/
Gus's fallout shelter is named 'Uncle Paul.' ;D
My one uncle, who is actually an inch or so shorter than me, is built like a brick shithouse and weighs about 220. He spends about 2 hours in the gym almost every day and is a certified genius. Over the course of his working life he was an 'urban planner' and 'built computers for the government' starting with punchcard tech in the early 1970s. The guy can take an entire car apart and put it back together again, he taught himself to play and build guitars, and he brews his own beer. If anyone can stop a new cold war it's my uncle :)
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 05, 2018, 01:16:07 PM
I grew up in West Germany as a missionary kid. My parents traveled secretly behind the Iron Curtain for more than a decade to share the gospel with the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, and the USSR. Being US citizens, the risk to them was very small. But the people they ministered to and worshiped with needed to make long treks into the mountains or meet in darkened homes in the early hours of the morning to avoid detection, arrest, and imprisonment by the secret police, simply for practicing their faith. State atheism is a jealous god.
When the wall came down, my dad drove up to Berlin with a sledge hammer and brought back a big chunk of it. I still have a small piece.
That's pretty awesome.
My dad has a chunk of it at his house.
I don't have a piece of it myself, but I pissed on it at least twice in the 80s.
And while my dad never would confirm it to me, I always figured if the balloon had gone up in the 80s, I wasn't likely to evacuate with my mom & brother. I was a pretty independent teenager, but more importantly, spoke fluent German and could pass as a native to a non-native, I was pretty damned good at AFVID and unit symbology, knew my way around the country and a mapbook, and was just generally too useful to be sent home.
Wolverines!!!
Quote from: mirth on February 05, 2018, 02:00:25 PM
Wolverines!!!
pretty much. except I wouldn't be armed... too obvious
Ferrets!!!
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 05, 2018, 01:56:12 PM
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 05, 2018, 01:16:07 PM
I grew up in West Germany as a missionary kid. My parents traveled secretly behind the Iron Curtain for more than a decade to share the gospel with the people of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, and the USSR. Being US citizens, the risk to them was very small. But the people they ministered to and worshiped with needed to make long treks into the mountains or meet in darkened homes in the early hours of the morning to avoid detection, arrest, and imprisonment by the secret police, simply for practicing their faith. State atheism is a jealous god.
When the wall came down, my dad drove up to Berlin with a sledge hammer and brought back a big chunk of it. I still have a small piece.
That's pretty awesome.
My dad has a chunk of it at his house.
I don't have a piece of it myself, but I pissed on it at least twice in the 80s.
I bought a piece when they were available.
I peed on part of the wall in a Las Vegas bathroom.
Quote from: airboy on February 05, 2018, 03:01:23 PM
I peed on part of the wall in a Las Vegas bathroom.
Truly, you have live a full and rich life :P
Gus, your uncle sounds like Captain America.
I had a piece of the Berlin Wall back in high school - my German teacher brought back tiny bits of it, one piece each for each of her students. No idea where it went to.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 05, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Quote from: mirth on February 05, 2018, 02:04:55 PM
Ferrets!!!
Muskrats!
Werwolf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werwolf)!(Wait, wrong political ideology...right idea though.)
I got a piece of the wall when I got World In Conflict; collectors edition.
Dad was in the air force for 20 years. For 6 of those years, he was air crew on NEACP. Odds were 50/50 that if there was a nuclear war, he would be with the president and mom and I would be dead.
I saw a map of the top soviet targets for nuclear strikes. I lived half of my childhood in the top 3; DC, Offutt, and Ellsworth.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 05, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
Dad was in the air force for 20 years. For 6 of those years, he was air crew on NEACP. Odds were 50/50 that if there was a nuclear war, he would be with the president and mom and I would be dead.
I saw a map of the top soviet targets for nuclear strikes. I lived half of my childhood in the top 3; DC, Offutt, and Ellsworth.
That's pretty interesting. We have a friend of the family that unfortunately I haven't seen or talked to in years but we used to visit all the time when we lived in northern VA. He was the navigator on Air Force One for three Presidents - Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon.
Whenever I think of NECAP I think of that movie with James Earl Jones in it...
By Dawn's Early Light, I think it was. They called it 'Looking Glass.' Was that the same as NECAP? I always thought they were the same thing.
Quote from: OJsDad on February 05, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
Dad was in the air force for 20 years. For 6 of those years, he was air crew on NEACP. Odds were 50/50 that if there was a nuclear war, he would be with the president and mom and I would be dead.
I saw a map of the top soviet targets for nuclear strikes. I lived half of my childhood in the top 3; DC, Offutt, and Ellsworth.
I grew up a block outside the main gate of a Navy base in San Diego, and lived there through undergrad and half of grad school. That was a likely early target.
After that, for almost four years I lived in Los Angeles a couple of miles from LAX, LA AFB, and the huge Mobil refinery in Torrance. That was maybe a secondary target, maybe not.
Now I live 15 miles south of DC and work in the Pentagon. Certainly an early target. Actually, I work in the part of the Pentagon that was hit on 9/11, so almost every day is a reminder that I'm a likely target, nuclear or not.
Looking Glass was an EC-135. One was air borne at all times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_EC-135
NEACP is an E-4 that would be used by the President and his battle staff in a war. It used to always follow the President wherever he went, though usually a different airport.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4
When dad was first with NEACP, they were at Andrews outside of DC. Then they moved them to Offutt, with one rotating to Andrews, or where the President was traveling to, all the time. Due to a shortage of radio communications specialists, there were times he was gone every other weekend.
Dads team was clear back in the tail. When I say tail, I don't mean the last row of seats, I mean further back than that. There were four of them. They would trail a antenna from the back of the plane, extending up to a couple of miles at least. Dad had the record for the longest length lost for quite some time.
^ Cool, thanks! O0
That is some fascinating stuff, OJ. Are there still aircraft that are always in the air or did that end when the first Cold War ended?
And thanks BC...he is Uncle 'Murica to me.
Quote from: Gusington on February 05, 2018, 09:01:12 PM
That is some fascinating stuff, OJ. Are there still aircraft that are always in the air or did that end when the first Cold War ended?
We stopped most of the "always airborne" rotations around '94 or so. I remember it was a really big deal when they stopped the bomber rotations.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 05, 2018, 09:26:43 PM
Quote from: Gusington on February 05, 2018, 09:01:12 PM
That is some fascinating stuff, OJ. Are there still aircraft that are always in the air or did that end when the first Cold War ended?
We stopped most of the "always airborne" rotations around '94 or so. I remember it was a really big deal when they stopped the bomber rotations.
SAC was not pleased. Then SAC went buh-bye.
Most...so there are still some.
It's not SAC anymore. Strike Command or some such. I haven't kept up.
Whatever it's called, they keep something in the air, ready to act, all the time...yes?
I don't think so. I think we rely on land-based missiles and subs. I don't think we're keeping bombers in the air like we used to. I don't think we have the assests to do it now. Not 24/7.
I'm pretty sure Air Force one is ready to roll at a moment's notice and I'm pretty sure it could serve as KneeCap, but it's not like the bad old days. But wtf do I know?
Are bombers still fueled up and ready to go at a moments notice on the ground? Or are bombers just too old fashioned and expensive and cumbersome to possess like that now?
Quote from: Gusington on February 05, 2018, 09:51:56 PM
Are bombers still fueled up and ready to go at a moments notice on the ground? Or are bombers just too old fashioned and expensive and cumbersome to possess like that now?
The latter. No one has a real first-strike capability these days. Maybe someone flips nukes at us and then waits an hour or two before we glass them. Same result in the end.
Not that anyone ever could 'win' a nuke war, but it made for some interesting what ifs.
There are a few people out there who believe a limited nuclear exchange is winnable somehow.
Quote from: Gusington on February 05, 2018, 10:14:34 PM
There are a few people out there who believe a limited nuclear exchange is winnable somehow.
And they are total effing loons.
Kim Jong Un and Trumpy
Quote from: Gusington on February 05, 2018, 09:29:19 PM
Most...so there are still some.
I think there's still an airborne command post that stays in the air, but the bombers with the nukes are down.
America's leadership in the 50s was agog with nuclear possibilities. One brilliant idea was to string 20 or so devices across Panama to build a wider Panama Canal. Another was to put anti-Communist propaganda messages on the Moon. The list goes on and on.
If I recall correctly, when the North first invaded South Korea, didn't MacArthur request dropping atom bombs on the Nork spearheads?
Seem to recall a suggestion that a devastated band of land would be the new border.
Considering how drawn down the army was after World War II, it got some serious consideration.
Quote from: mirth on February 05, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
I'm pretty sure Air Force one is ready to roll at a moment's notice and I'm pretty sure it could serve as KneeCap, but it's not like the bad old days. But wtf do I know?
Per the wiki page for the E-4, it still shadows the president when he travels. Sounds more like a backup aircraft than anything else.
Quote from: airboy on February 05, 2018, 11:01:49 AM
Berlin Wall has been destroyed longer than it was in place this month.
Celebrating the demise of Communism is a good thing. Like counting your blessings.
Current Russian autocrats kill, jail, starve, and send to mental institutions far fewer people than the commies did.
I have fond memories of when the Berlin wall came down and the U.S.S.R. ceased to exist.
This is a sappy song to most people, but to me, it coming out at the time that all this change and upheaval was happening, it was rather poignant and yet inspiring. :)
^I was JUST going to post that and have a sing along. You beat me by 3 seconds.
Quote from: Gusington on February 07, 2018, 12:20:08 PM
^I was JUST going to post that and have a sing along. You beat me by 3 seconds.
LOL
I admit it gave me chills up my spine. I haven't watched the video in a long time.
Me neither. Olde.
That song belongs on the remove from the universe list.
Quote from: mirth on February 07, 2018, 02:23:50 PM
That song belongs on the remove from the universe list.
You realize Brant didn't post it, right? :P
I had graduated from a military school in Scotland the year prior to the wall coming down and gotten a bursary if I remained active reserves so it paid for my university but I had the pleasure of having to give up a couple of weeks in the summer to get rained on while I dug foxholes around some godforsaken airfield in the UK or Germany.
Since I was fluent in German (have a German mother and a US dad) I would work in Germany during the remainder of the Summer at a giant German chemical plant. They flew all the work interns out to Berlin for a big shindig. I wasnt thinking and had my military ID on me. Part of the festivities (along with going to a medieval dinner in Scholss Spandau - not the prison) was to go do a tour of East Berlin. So I went through Checkpoint Charlie with bunch of Western University students. The guards boarded the bus and checked IDs so my active Army ID got them really excited. I got hauled off the bus and was standing in no mans land getting harangued by irate and armed East German border guards. I remember thinking that this was a really dicey situation and my best bet was to play it dumb so I didn't speak back in German and just played like a simpleton. They eventually let me back on but I recall that it was pretty tense with these guys and no real certainty on my standings due to all the inconsistencies in my story (US citizen, reserve British military, UK student, German Chemical company).
The tour director was white as a sheet and kept saying to me in German that she thought I was going to get shot or hauled away. Interesting times
Con
^That...is an awesome story!
Con, your tour director sounds like a winner! :D
You know the funny thing is now years later I work for a large German company and I have some interaction with interns and marcom who do these events. I realize that we give these young marcom people no real training in dealing with a crisis and while I was barely 18 she was probably only early 20s. So I actually feel more sympathetic for her that I dropped her in such a crappy situation. I don't blame her for not getting off the bus and helping. She probably would have made it worse in reality.
Ha, good point. I just have a picture in my mind of her standing next to you whispering in a pnaic, "you're going to die, they're probably going to shoot you and you're going to die," with you thinking something along the lines of "not helpful, tour director..."
Quote from: Airborne Rifles on February 08, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
Ha, good point. I just have a picture in my mind of her standing next to you whispering in a pnaic, "you're going to die, they're probably going to shoot you and you're going to die," with you thinking something along the lines of "not helpful, tour director..."
"NO SPEAKEE ZE GERMAIN, remember? ...but as long as I'm gonna be shot, are you seeing anybody right now? O:-) "