IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Discussion

[Skoop]

Most likely the standard blanked statement from indie sim devs, limited resources and manpower so they have to focus on the vital elements.  But hey, if you liked pat's career generator in ROF, now you have a ostfront WWII version.

[sandman2575]

I like PWCG for RoF -- and think Pat Wilson deserves enormous credit and thanks for putting it together. But it will always be a band-aid for RoF. There's no way around the fact that it's clunky to use, looks primitive, and feels detached from the game (of course it is detached) in a way that's pretty immersion killing. I'm sure it will feel the same way for BoS.

I understand the 'indie developer with limited resources' argument. But no one was asking for miracles from 777. They did include SP and a campaign. *Why* they insisted on creating a non-dynamic, non-career-based 'campaign' rather than something most simmers would recognize as a campaign mode (i.e. you're a pilot who flies for X squadron and keeps a record of missions -- like Over Flanders Fields or countless other sims) -- that's the part that baffles me.

[Nefaro]

For you SP guys, a Community member has added the IL2 career generator app to add  career elements to the stock campaign.

Why 777 was so opposed to including real "career elements" in the first place is something I'll never understand.

They obviously prefer focusing on modelling the aircraft in 3D, and perhaps flight modelling.

Seems like they want to just make a toolkit and let the community do the rest of the work.   :-\

[Skoop]

I have no problem with the toolkit strategy and let the community build the missions.  There's plenty of good content coming out from the community, infact I'd rather they keep focusing on evolving the engine so we get closer to persistent battlefield campaigns.  The mission makers are already there and need performance increases, looking at tech upgrades like x64 and DX11.  That's only going to happen with the community building SP content to fill that void. 

[sandman2575]

Skoop (or anyone else in the know) -- Is it still the case that BoS doesn't let you combo key bindings on your flight stick?  This limitation wasn't an issue for me in RoF because of the simplicity of the flight controls. But with BoS I found it a genuine handicap (...one of the reasons I uninstalled BoS months ago -- that and the constant 1.5GB updates....although I'd be willing to look at it again). 

My T-Flight Hotas X doesn't have nearly enough buttons for this 'one key per function' silliness --

[Skoop]

Yeah, it doesn't have a builtin modifier key like dcs.  You would have to use target or some other joystick programmer to achieve that which is a downer for most people. 

You can assign multiple keys functions to one key, if that helps.  Meaning the keys for the 109 stabilizer can be the same keys for trim in all the aircraft even though it seems weird that they have different trim keys for the 109, 190, and all other aircraft.  I basically just set all trim to the same keys.

Another trick to maximize your limited controls, is to use hotas keys for all open or all closed on your engine management.  Meaning you could set both the radiator and oil rad to those same keys so they are both controlled at once.  Make fine adjustments with keyboard keys.  I find that having all the CEM keys bind together really helps in combat, because your not going to be making fine adjustments when your dogfighting.

[sandman2575]

Thanks for the tips skoop.  Seems pretty ridiculous that BoS doesn't include this functionality. For all its faults, Cliffs of Dover gave you way more flexibility for setting up controls.

[MengJiao]

Thanks for the tips skoop.  Seems pretty ridiculous that BoS doesn't include this functionality. For all its faults, Cliffs of Dover gave you way more flexibility for setting up controls.

  Yep.  And the current Fusion-modded CLOD still is the best-looking flight sim of all time.  Plus the mission editor (where I play) works very well.

  I have BoS and eventually will get BoM, but I'm not playing it much at the moment.  The P-40s are nice to see though.

[sandman2575]

Question for the experts if I could -- 

I reinstalled BoS last night. Still finding the joystick mapping limitations very frustrating, but regardless --

Trying to fly the 109F -- I'm noticing in lower altitude flight that my plane pulls strongly to the left, whether at lower or higher speeds? I checked my roll calibration and it's centered, and I don't think this is engine torque, or is it?  I never noticed anything like this before -- maybe they've updated the FM since last I played?

[Skoop]

They have made some FM changes to the 109 since release.  Mine does pull to the left as well it's the torque, historic from what they say.  You really notice it on take off, I almost have 50 to 70% right rudder engaged to keep it straight on the runway.  It seems to pull less as you gain speed and alt. 

I had to get a CH stick a couple weeks ago because my Warthog took a crap.  The CH fighterstick actually has analog trim dials that allow you to force aileron trim into the 109 when historically it only had elevator trim.  It's so useful,  I don't know if I will put my warthog back in service once it's fixed.

I suspect they made some FM tweaks to all the 109 FMs with the addition of the emil, my rudder and trim seemed to produce way more drag than before v104.  Had to make some adjustments. 

The Emil flys nice, the BOM planes will be fun if they keep the maps balanced.  If your going competitive MP and rolling lonewolf, your gona want to fly the 109f4 or yak-1.  If you go for p-40s or i16s, your gona need a wingman on comms or your toast. 

That's the thing with going backwards in the timeline, a lot of the MP guys pass because the inferior aircraft will give them no edge.
As an aviation enthusiast, I couldn't resist, some good planes in the BOM package.

As the speculation goes, people think that they will go Kursk, then MED, then maybe Westfront or Pacific which will be cool.  That would bring a pretty diverse package of theaters and planes....comparable to 1946.

[Skoop]

Also on the controls subject, if you notice in ROF you can create control profiles for specific aircraft.  This is crucial for flying the Fw190, which has extremely sensitive controls.  BOS has a ones size fits all control system, which is a hassle because every time I fly the folke wulf, I have to reset my stick settings specifically for the Fw190. 

Eventually we will get plane specific control profiles like ROF.  If ROF has a modifier switch in the control settings, I bet we'll get that added too. 

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

I booted it up for the first time in months.  Such a frustrating game!  I love how the aircraft fly and how the enemy fighters behave and respond.  I had a blast escorting some IL-2s to their target in my Yak.  We got bounced by 8 Bf 109G-2s and a really exciting, chaotic fur ball ensued.  That part of the game is great!

Too bad the larger world is so bad.  The enemy AI for fighters seems good but the bombers are still dumb as rocks.  Friendly AI is still broken as far as I can tell.  My wingman happily blasted several rounds into my engine in an effort to kill the 109 I was tailing.  The rest of the flight buggered off after some random Tante Ju and refused to respond to orders. 

Mission briefings still lack individuality or historical verisimilitude and the map waypoints are cookie cutter affairs.   Debriefs are even worse.  I got 3 kills and was awarded the spiffy medal of awesomeness and 312XP or something.

I gave up on wishing the devs would listen to the dwindling player base and build a single player campaign.  Hopefully Pat can work a miracle but from what I've seen of his build so far, it's got a long way to go.

[Skoop]

What would be a great  compromise would be to migrate the coop mode from ROF.  It's already in the editor, they just need some coding to link it into the game.

I brought up the hopeless wingman AI many times, the best would just have the feature to fly all campaign and SP missions with a buddy in coop mode.

You can build MP missions to function as a coop, but to play some of the cool sp missions as a coop, it would require a complete rewrite.. So it's a hassle for the guys who create sp missions.  A built in coop mode for the single player content would be the way to go.  The AI does well when it's not tied to a wingman, but when you rely on it as your wingman, it seems to always fail.

In all fairness though, I don't remember the AI wingmen in clod or 1946 or DCS really strikingly better.  They all have their AI quiks.

[RyanE]

Well...if that's all they need...

"they just need some coding to link it into the game"

[Skoop]

So the 1.05 update has arrived.

Most notable are the addition of the Bf-110E2(to purchasers of Battle of Moscow EA), crewable tanks, and the support for flying with mouse control.

Testing all of these at the moment.

further notes here :

Update 1.105




Hello everyone!



The end of November is here and, as we promised, the work on the next update is finished. It is a big step forward in the development of the project once again and it brings two huge chunks of new functionality and content: aircraft mouse controls and player controlled tanks. Of course, it adds a new playable plane for Battle of Moscow owners as usual: twin engine heavy fighter Bf 110 E-2 (players who have only Battle of Stalingrad can set it as AI controlled plane or encounter it in multiplayer).



Previously in our developer diary we told about the new additions in detail, you can read them here:

Developer Diary, part 113

Developer Diary, part 114



Here's a brief overview:



Tanks:

1. "T-34-76 made by Stalingrad Tractor Factory, model of 1942" and "PzKpfw III Ausf. L" tanks are available to all owners of the game.

2. You can operate them using the following controls:


"E" - Start engine

"Cursor Keys" - Movement (the game automatically translates these simple direction commands to pushing pedals, switching friction clutches and changing gears).

"RAlt-C" - Close/open hatch (riding with open hatches is obviously more dangerous).

"LCtrl-C" - Switch to gunner and back to driver seat.

"RAlt-G" - Switch ammunition: Armour Piercing / High Explosive / Machine Gun.

"Ralt ;" "Ralt ." - Adjust gunsight verticaly (range)

"Ralt ," "Ralt /" - Adjust gunsight horizontaly vertical (only on T-34)

"Mouse Wheel" or "LShift - Mouse Wheel" - Zoom in or out

"T" - Set turret to stowed position / Take control over the turret

3. At the release, there are two multiplayer missions where you can try them (or provide air support):

3а. First mission is a territory capture that can be played on tanks and planes simultaneously. Tanks need to capture enemy tank spawn points designated by flags, getting closer to the enemy airfield. Players who prefer air power can take off from the airfield either on ground attack planes to support their own ground forces or on fighters to counter enemy air. To capture a flag, ground forces must preserve numerical superiority in its vicinity for a short time. After capturing a couple of enemy flags, tanks can move further to the enemy airfield and wipe it out for good, winning the mission.

3б. Second mission is simpler, but can be more hectic. Players on tanks can participate in the endless AI tank battle (roughly 2 vs 2 tank companies with artillery support) to turn the tide in their favor. Here you immediately jump into the heat of battle. If many players participate in this mission, it can grow up to battalion vs battalion size. Supporting your side from the air is also possible.



Aircraft mouse controls:

1. A mouse controlled plane has the same flight model, damage model and weapons systems as joystick controlled plane, there are no simplifications in the simulation.

2. Mouse controls only pitch, yaw and roll, the rest of the systems (engine, weapons, landing gear, flaps, brakes, etc.) are controlled in the same way as with joystick controls.

3. Server owners can allow both control types on a server or restrict it to be joystick-only.

4. Default mouse controls are mapped to:


"Mouse movement" - Aiming the 'advanced helper' pointer

"Mouse wheel" - All engines throttle

"Left mouse button" - All guns fire

"Right mouse button" - Hold it to look around without changing the direction of the flight

"F1" - Default view from cockpit

"F4" - External view with mouse controls (available only at Normal difficulty since external views are disabled on Expert)

"LShift + mouse wheel" - Zoom view or sight



The full 1.105 change list follows:


Spoiler 



Main features:



1. German two-seater Bf 110 E-2 is available for all customers who pre-purchased Battle of Moscow. All other players can set is as AI plane in skirmish or scenario.

2. Player controlled tanks Pz III Ausf L and T-34-76 STZ (Autumn 1942 series) can be added to multiplayer missions. They can be controlled by one or two (driver and gunner) players.

3. Mouse control scheme added (experimental). Flight model is the same as with joystick control scheme (player points the mouse cursor in a direction he or she wants to fly and a special helper adjusts control surfaces to fly in that direction). Server owner can restrict control scheme to joystick if desired.

4. New flag object added that can be used in multiplayer missions for capturing objects and territories.

5. Planes made for Battle of Moscow are added to Battle of Stalingrad campaign as AI controlled planes based on their real life participation in the battle (they appear in certain time periods): La-5 ser.8, MC.202 ser.8, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 110 E-2, I-16 type 24 and P-40E-1. This makes the campaign more interesting and its chapters more diverse.

6. Head movement in cockpit limitation system changed:

Spoiler 















Improvements if physics and systems modeling:



7. ATA limiter removed from P-40E-1 since there was none on this model. You can increase pressure above 45.5 for a limited time. If in-game engine helper is switched off (Expert mode), it won't return to normal values automatically after spending time limit, potentially breaking the engine.

8. Bf 109 F-4 and G-2 thermal balance corrected using 'African' reference: larger and larger radiator opening yields less and less cooling increase, which leads to necessity of opening radiator more at higher temperatures and during climb.

9. Bf 109 G-2 engine reacts to throttle axis in a more convenient way.

10. La-5 can no longer can be destroyed by engine shake.

11. La-5 can be landed without landing gear.

12. I-16 can be landed without landing gear.

13. Fw-190 can be landed without landing gear.

14. Pilot won't always die after nose-over.

15. Yak-1 pneumatic flaps extension speed increased (~80° per second while stationary, less at high speeds) based on learning video for Yak-15 with the same flaps system.

16. IL-2 pneumatic flaps extension speed increased (~33° per second at 200...220 km/h speeds) based on restored IL-2 flight video.

17. Bf 109 tail reinforced to make it more resistant to taxiing over rough ground.

18. Bf 109 G-2 ATA gauge shows correct information after starting a mission in air.

19. Bf 109 G-2 auto level works correctly at 2 km altitude and 500 km/h speed.

20. Damage system has been reworked (more accurate armor penetration calculations).

21. Tracers are randomized while shooting several MGs at once (this was an issue on P-40).

22. Ammo mass is reduced correctly while shooting several MGs or cannons of the same type.

23. Aircraft ground impact at high speeds now correctly causes a detonation (in previous version it could survive a shallow impact at 500+ km/h speeds).

24. Message in technochat about extending or retracting flaps is not displayed when they are fully extended or retracted.

25. Technochat symbol showing that engine assist is on is restored for Bf 109, Fw 190 and MC.202.

26. Bf 109 F-4 and Bf 109 G-2: technochat symbol restored showing that game radiator control helper is on. On-plane automatic radiator control symbol changed in technochat.

27. Gunner turrets rotate more smoothly.

28. Turret rotation smoothness tuned for large zoom values.

29. Mechanical aiming sight corrected on MC.202 ser.8.

30. Contrail appearance altitude now depends on season (temperature). Contrails are intermittent at the altitude of their appearance.



Artifical Intelligence improvements:



31. Ju-52, He-111 and Pe-2 take off better (course oscillating reduced at take off start).

32. AI controlled fighter carrying bombs or rockets now behaves like ground attack plane and doesn't enter combat on its own. If attacked, it will drop the bombs and engage.

33. The simulation will no longer crash while attempting to delete an AI controlled Ju-87 during its bombing run with siren switched on  :)



Other changes:



34. Fixed issue when impact angle wasn't calculated properly for ground vehicles.

35. AI controlled tanks armor structure made more detailed, they have correct armor angles and they can't be destroyed by hitting secondary parts if the main armor body is intact.

36. Target destruction messages ('player destroyed something') are visible only for the player coalition in multiplayer (so they won't reveal the player position to the enemy).

37. After capturing an airfield in multiplayer mission its symbol is updated properly.

38. DServer stability improved, it shouldn't crash after prolonged periods of time.

39. Wrong chat colors in multiplayer fixed.

30. Trees along the roads added to summer and autumn maps.

41. New feature: ability to automatically login and load a certain mission or replay. Use config file <game_folder>\data\autoplay.cfg.

42. Game log in time reduced.

43. Object textures in mission editor update after changing the map preset to another season.