Game DRM

[LongBlade]

This is a solid, healthy debate.

I've used Steam for years. A decade ago it sometimes gave me problems, but over the last four or five years I've never had a problem. If it goes TU, as Toonces suggested, I guess I'll just deal. It's rare for me to return to a game I have ceased playing, but I take some comfort in knowing all those games are there if I'd like to play them.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the dishwasher argument suggested by Undercovergeek. He makes a good point, but I'm not sure it's valid. Even if it is valid, there are products that receive lifetime warranties. 20-ish years ago my uncle returned a hammer to Sears that was broken. He'd purchased it probably 50 years prior. Lifetime warranty, it was replaced with a new one.

The main reason washing machines aren't given away for free is that there is a real cost in material. Software, once cut, and bought, can be replaced cost free. Yes, there is a small cost of the network/internet, but in today's world bandwidth as a cost is inconsequential.

That said, this is the free market. If XYZ company wants to force you buy their game three times to replace two HDD meltdowns that's their prerogative. It's also the consumer's prerogative to decline that offer. Or accept it as they wish.

Simple profit and loss will determine if that course is acceptable to both consumer and publisher. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[undercovergeek]

Steam and valve have gone on record to say come the day of the great unplug if it all goes wrong they would unlicence the games and they would be unrestricted

[JudgeDredd]

^ Really? I wonder what the developers and publishers think of that?

[JudgeDredd]

This was from Page 9 of the Battle for Normandy manual

"there is no way to "unlicense" a previously activated copy on a computer. Which has the advantage that you can't ever forget to do so :^)"

OK - there's a difference - but are they genuinely asking people to remember what kind of system they have for each of their games? I have 4 full games (CM:SF, CM:FI, CM:Afghanistan and CM:BfN) and 5 DLC's (Marines, British Forces, NATO, Commonwealth Forces)!

[Greybriar]

Steam and valve have gone on record to say come the day of the great unplug if it all goes wrong they would unlicence the games and they would be unrestricted

What else did you expect them to say? If and when the day comes that Steam goes TU, the "No Guarantees" clauses in the Steam Subscriber Agreement lead me to believe the exact opposite of what you say will be true.

[Huw the Poo]

Steam and valve have gone on record to say come the day of the great unplug if it all goes wrong they would unlicence the games and they would be unrestricted

For one thing, they're not on record saying that.  Supposedly Newell said it once but it can no longer be found anywhere.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly...that's just an empty promise.  They can't possibly have the necessary agreements in place with every single developer and publisher.

[magnus]

 I am not a fan of DRM by any means, but at least with Steam I can play 95% of my Steam games offline.The other games are UBI etc. and need to connect online.

So for the 95%, I do not see what the problem would be if Steam did go belly up.

The one problem it might cause if you buy a new machine or a crash and you have to reinstall.

I am a little confused though about one thing. I thought that the EU had a lawsuit against a company for " not selling you a product, but selling you the chance to use it". I thought that they won the suit and there was going to be some backlash about it?

[Huw the Poo]

Oh and I may as well weigh in myself, here, since I do give a damn about DRM.

Publishers that use limited activations are fuckheads.  When I buy something, I expect to be able to use it until it breaks - not possible with software - or until the heat death of the universe.  Allowing deactivations (oh how generous!) is a panacea at best, and in practise is yet another way to make the paying customer's life hard, as JudgeDredd's misfortune has so aptly demonstrated.

You guys say Steam doesn't give you this trouble?  You know what else doesn't?  "Pirated" games.  DRM like that being discussed in this thread actively makes life far harder for people who pay than people who don't pay.  When is the world going to wake up and collectively scream that this is wrong?

As Toonces has alluded, what you're prepared to put up with has probably changed over the years.  Almost every non-indie publisher now uses some form of DRM, and the less egregious implementations have largely been accepted by the gaming world, now.  But the ones that bend you over and shaft you up the arse are still rightly decried by anyone who gives a damn about their rights.

Finally, we have so far been skirting around the very real issue that "piracy" is not the detrimental force it's claimed by some to be.  From research showing that the closure of file-sharing services hurts box office revenues to revelations that Netflix actually uses torrent sites to pick content through to the vehemently anti-DRM stance held by many developers (including CD Projekt who have sold millions of DRM-free copies of The Witcher 2), I just have to wonder why anyone bothers with DRM at all.

P.S. The beloved Steam doesn't even refer to what you "buy" as games.  Have a look at your account history, and see which "licenses and subcriptions" you "own".

[undercovergeek]

Steam and valve have gone on record to say come the day of the great unplug if it all goes wrong they would unlicence the games and they would be unrestricted

For one thing, they're not on record saying that.  Supposedly Newell said it once but it can no longer be found anywhere.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly...that's just an empty promise.  They can't possibly have the necessary agreements in place with every single developer and publisher.

"If Steam were to go out of business, you would still hold a limited user license for all of the Steam products you have purchased. Steam has already arranged to deactivate online verification and have a third party host the software for download."

is what i read

[Huw the Poo]

Can you provide a link please mate?

[undercovergeek]

"Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available.

We've tested disabling authentication and it works."

ive only got these from sources around the net, my original url is a dead link now

[Huw the Poo]

ive only got these from sources around the net, my original url is a dead link now

Yeah, and that's precisely what I said in an earlier post; they've reportedly said it in the past, but nobody can find it now.  If they did say it, they've clearly retracted it, with obvious implications.

Also, this scenario depends on Valve having notice of a shutdown, and also giving enough of a damn to do something about it.

[undercovergeek]

my steam library is worth probably 700-800 pounds in money spent

my steam library is worth exactly 70 pounds to me - 35 for Rome II, 30 for EU IV and 5 for HOI III, the rest, if i could i would give away or happily delete from my library

if the Steam Apocolypse comes tomorrow, let it come

[Tuna]

Well fired up Shockforce and it still seems to work, so maybe I lucked out.. a CPU change isn't enough to set it's DRM off.. unlike CMBN which it did.

[Nefaro]

my steam library is worth probably 700-800 pounds in money spent

my steam library is worth exactly 70 pounds to me - 35 for Rome II, 30 for EU IV and 5 for HOI III, the rest, if i could i would give away or happily delete from my library

if the Steam Apocolypse comes tomorrow, let it come

You say that now, but when Steam's quality customer service fails to do anything and we can never download our games ever again, it may be a different tune.

I don't foresee that happening soon, but our Steam Libraries are continually growing.  I have no doubts that if something drastic happened, and Steam shut down (sold out, increased account auto-bans, etc) that they wouldn't spend all the extra time fixing us up.  Hell, it's like pulling teeth trying to get anything but an automated response back from their customer service.  Sometimes I don't think they even have full-time CS.  It's obvious that they don't give much of a shit. 

Steam has advantages, but it also has disadvantages and certainly bugs.  If at some point you can't log in, there will be no way to reinstall your Steam software since there is no client-free installers.  Unless you, ironically, install a pirated version. 

Acting like you don't care losing hundreds of pounds/dollars in software makes me  ::)