Russia's War Against Ukraine

[JasonPratt]

The relative problem is the low-slung intake for the 16 compared to the 18. And I didn't say it would be impossible, just a lot more time-consuming. With manpower, much is possible! (Which is why on a carrier practically everyone shows up for the 'walk' down the flight deck, from the admiral on down, traditionally. Dad used to see top brass doing that on the Nimitz in early Nam days.)

[Windigo]

I don't want detail, I want the "elevator pitch".

"We're professionals.  Trust us!"   

You got 25 more seconds.... no dead air space

[Windigo]

How about some Harriers? The UAF could really have fun poking the bear with those. Playing whack-a-mole with russkie artillery that's trying to hit them and service crews on the ground (they'd be moving all the time).

[SirAndrewD]

One of the problems I read that the Ukrainian air force was running into was finding enough pilots that were fluent enough in English to operate the plane's MFD systems. 

Don't forget that there isn't just a language barrier here, there's an alphabet barrier.


While a lot of Ukrainians speak English, they still need to learn it well enough to parse the plane's terminology.  To that end the RAF has set up a special school in the UK, but they anticipate months of turnaround for a lot of the pilots to be prepared. 

During those months these pilots are effectively out of the war otherwise.

[GDS_Starfury]

the FOD thing to me isnt that big a deal.  every airbase and carrier does FOD walks all the time.  its literally part of the routine.
as for the pilots, a couple of ideas.
take Ukrainian civilian pilots and use the best of those to train on 16s while the front line pilots continue on.
why not switch out the alpha numerics for Ukrainian language?  would that not take less time?
I also recall quite recently seeing an ad for essentially Ukraine Flying Tigers.  foreign pilots that are already
rated on F-16s.

[GDS_Starfury]

and Ukrainians being who they are would probably come up with some low disruption screen for the intakes anyway.

[FarAway Sooner]

I don't want detail, I want the "elevator pitch".

"We're professionals.  Trust us!"   

You got 25 more seconds.... no dead air space

But then I'd be going beyond the script of The Polar Express!

[SirAndrewD]

Yeah, I keep hearing the idea for a Ukraine Flying Tigers/Lafayette Escadrille and it seems like a valid concept. 

I know the US is highly opposed to creating one with the sanction of the government so it'd have to be something Ukraine put together themselves.  Even then we're far more hesitant to allow our even retired pilots to volunteer for such an endeavor than we are individual infantrymen. 

If we did it I'd imagine it'd have to be on the sly with conditions like the old Soviet "Hondos" in Korea.  They'd be required to stay over friendly territory at all times and avoid capture so they wouldn't be exploited for propaganda purposes. 

Even if a non-active American or NATO F-16 pilot got captured flying an F-16, the Russians would massively exploit that as proof NATO was directly intervening in the war.

[GDS_Starfury]

soviets fucks flew in Korea and Vietnam so fuck em. 

[Jarhead0331]

Since you're on the topic...

[SirAndrewD]

Good video Jarhead and yeah, that keeps being the issue with complicated NATO fighters and why I keep being skeptical the F-16 is going to be able to be operated effectively enough to be a difference maker in the short term.

This is why so many keep suggesting the Gripen, but of course there aren't enough of them.

Also good info on why the UAF is being so "slow" on clearing the front lines of defense and mostly working horizontally on the front rather than vertically. 

To bolster his points there was an interesting article in Newsweek about Russian artillery doctorine and its recent changes. 

As the first lines are increasingly under pressure, Russian artillerists have been ordered to ignore the possibility of friendly fire on lines manned with reservists. 

So they are now doing more than danger close.  If they are engaged at close range Russian arty is dropping equally on their own men, sometimes intentionally as they don't want to see the route at Urozhaine repeated. 

Russian friendly fire casualties have skyrocketed in the last weeks, enough that the DPR local commander has grown increasingly infuriated that the Russian military is butchering his allied troops in the eastern part of the lines. 

[Sir Slash]

The Ukrainians should just paint Putin's face on every plane they have, no Russian pilot would dare shoot at them then. Of course...everybody else in the whole world would so... maybe not a good idea. 

[Jarhead0331]

Sadly, still no gum drops and unicorns in Ukraine. What miracle NATO wonder weapon will be needed to turn the tide now?

[GDS_Starfury]

seems like winning to me.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1693922011951542408

[Jarhead0331]

You can continue to bury your head in the sand by posting cool videos, or you can accept the reality that is becoming more and more undeniable.

Ukraine losing is not an outcome anyone really wants, but it appears fairly inevitable given the actual strategic reality on the ground. My concern is how the West will continue to "up the ante" in order to lead to further escalation. In the end nobody will benefit (except the MIC, of course) and Ukrainians will continue to suffer the most. That, on the other hand, is an outcome that nobody should be pushing for.