Battlefront’s 2023 look ahead

Started by Grim.Reaper, January 29, 2023, 08:38:36 PM

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Destraex

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 02, 2023, 07:59:53 AM
Quote from: Destraex on February 02, 2023, 02:58:23 AMUnderstand your POV. I would say in response;

* Do we have current player figures for the non-steam version? If not how can we compare the two?

I don't see this as bearing any relevance. A comparison is not necessary. All I'm disputing is the point that the porting over of the titles to steam resulted in a substantial boost in sales and new players that outweighed the benefits of devoting resources to engine upgrades and new content. All that is necessary to address here are Steam numbers and they are clearly extremely low by any measure.

You are looking at how many people are playing rather than purchases, I would expect that not many people would play each month. Combat Mission is the kind of game you play when you get the itch and then drop for a long period before getting the itch again. I own a lot of Combat Mission titles I have barely touched. This is why numbers at game launch are probably much more indicative. A comparison of players active off steam would prove in addition to total sales which we do not have what percentage of players on average still play "regularly". I'd be happy to have off-steam players to compare, especially for the titles that released at the same time on both platforms.

Quote from: Destraex on February 02, 2023, 02:58:23 AM* I would say that moving to steam will make maintaining Battlefront games easier in future and if they ever drop the ball and shut up shop steam will keep supporting the games if people keep playing them I would say?

Disagree. Now instead of updating a single version of the game, Battlefront must update and service two. I would argue this will actually be a drain on resources and if low sales on steam continue, a further detriment to the company overall. If battlefront Heaven forbid goes under, Steam can't support the games. Perhaps they can still sell them and you can still play them, but steam is not in the patch development business. Otherwise, maybe the steam version is easier to update and maintain on the developer end...maybe it isn't. I simply do not know.

By support I meant if the Battlefront site goes down as they shut up shop or retire you will still be able to download them if you have them on steam.

Quote from: Destraex on February 02, 2023, 02:58:23 AM* I own none of the games you mention as I either had the previous titles and the new ones were extremely expensive or I was not interested. This was particularly the case with Black Sea and Cold War because of the claustrophobic maps in the demos that did not fit being able to manoevure and fire combined with advanced weapons that basically stopped anybody from putting their head up.
My actual point here is that we might look again once the more popular titles like Normandy etc are on steam. But without any stats to compare non-steam................

I'm sure the release of the WWII titles will definitely bring in more sales. However, my suspicion is that the model will be much the same. Only a handful of new buyers and players. As far as the non-steam comparison, again, irrelevant in my view.

At least on steam their is a "chance" especially from a social aspect of the game gaining more popularity and they are at least trying new things.

Quote from: Destraex on February 02, 2023, 02:58:23 AM* I think most wargamers would own steam. I'd point out that DCS is an example of a game that I know people who use steam and would not have played otherwise and made the jump on steam.

I still think in this genre or niche, the majority of players don't have a preference or even prefer a non-steam option. You may get some more deviation on this with battlefront only because of the nightmare updating frequently became because of their old licensing system, but as Grim noted, the system has changed and it is very easy now. Funny you mention DCS, it's one of the few titles I prefer non-steam. I refuse to transition over and continue to happily use either the desktop shortcut or skatezillas great utility.

I think that newer players of much younger age groups that will get into this sort of thing would have a preference for steam. If the old forums and communities away from the battlefront webiste still existed maybe steam would be less of a factor, but I think socially it is going to get much more exposure than the stand alone island on the internet that the battlefront webiste\forum is today could offer. This forum we are in is one of the last I know of with an active social pc wargaming community
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Grim.Reaper

Using one of the methods for estimating Steam sales, created the calculations below.  Basically seems like a number of people believe the number of Steam reviews a game has can translate into very rough estimates of the number of sales that occur per review.  Once you have the revenue, they then estimate the various expenses that reduce what the actual developer receives such as VAT, returns, regional pricing, discounts, and Steam's cut.  They claim that certainly not exact as there are likely unique circumstances per game, but indicated it at least was in the ballpark, I guess it depends on the size of ballpark:)

For these calculations, the calculator used 45 sales per review as the base.  I have seen other calculators suggest could be anywhere between 20-55, with the typical around 30.  Therefore, these numbers might be on the high-end but just for illustration purposes we will use it.

The difficult factor for the Combat Mission series released on Steam is the fact we don't know how many reviews were from people who got FREE keys being previous Battlefront owners, testers, etc.  When you do look a Steam they do break out reviews between people who have bought directly from Steam or another source.  Not really sure how a FREE key counts, whether included within Steam purchase reviews or non-steam purchase reviews.  I broke out the numbers between the two, although hard to really no how non-steam users factor in because that is from legit third party sellers and likely a lot of non-legit sellers.  Not sure how that factors into the expenses and such.  It is totally possible the base calaculation already considers all of this.

With all that said, if using the total reviews as a very high end revenue number, they have roughly made $993,000.  I suspect the number is not this high because of the FREE keys given away and possibly a higher return rate after people determined not their thing (i.e. graphics, performance, complexity, etc.) but we'll use it as the ceiling for sake of argument.

This is all meaningless numbers if we don't try and compare what they could have been spending their time on with new total base games, modules, and/or content.  For this, let's assume they started working on Steam conversion at the start of 2020, which then allowed them to release their first Steam game in August 2020.  That means the comparison period is from January 2020 thru today, February 2023, baslically three years and a month.  So what could they have released in that time period?  Generally speaking of their newer games, they released a brand new complete base game every two years.  It gets far too crazy to also anticipate how many modules/add-on pack, paid upgrades, etc. they might have completed, so let's just stick with a brand new base game (i.e. like normandy, italy, russia, etc.).  Shockforce 2 appears to be their most sold game on Steam which suggests around 28,000 units sold for roughly $555,891 net revenue.  Let's say they released a new base game and just released through their own store.  No idea how many units they sale through their own store, but to be roughly even with the net revenue they got from Shock Force 2 on Steam, they would need to only sell around 10,000 units, although I don't know their expenses that might come out of it.  Again, I have no idea if they sell that much through their own store but this doesn't also account for the fact beyond the one module they would likely have sold additional modules (their $34.00 variety) and miscellaneous upgrades and other add-ons.  On top of that, they could have additionally be spending time on their 2nd base game and/or a major new version of the game which would have eventually resulted in more sales.

Obviously this is not scientific and could be largely off the mark, but maybe provides some form of "estimating".  But I think this just goes back to the original point of the debate which there is a reasonable chance time could have been better spent making new content for the game versus converting the game to Steam in its current state.  Of course nobody knows the long term impacts because maybe as new engines/versions come out that appeal to more people, certainly Steam sales could help.



smittyohio

All I know is that I've gotten SF2 and Black Sea on Steam, and I *never* would have gotten them from Battlefront with all their licensing issues.  I'll be getting most of the WW2 stuff, too. 

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: smittyohio on February 05, 2023, 10:39:13 AMAll I know is that I've gotten SF2 and Black Sea on Steam, and I *never* would have gotten them from Battlefront with all their licensing issues.  I'll be getting most of the WW2 stuff, too. 

Yep, no argument that Steam will attract new users, not previously owners of the game. It's just a matter of how many new people and if "worth it" in the end.  That is subjective and only people that it really needs to please is the company themselves. The licensing and update process has changed a bit since the early days so not as nearly as complex although likely can still have issues.

Gusington

I don't own any of these games but will get Red Thunder when it's released on Steam.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Pete Dero

Combat Mission Normandy (with new DLC) will be available on Slitherine & Steam on march 28th (according to the latest Tea Time).

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1760108058

Sir Slash

"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

rss334

Anyone hears when the Engine 5 upgrade is coming, currently their games are unplayable except on the lowest settings for me and in larger scenarios the mouse panning lags so bad it's frustrating to play.  Really hoping the new engine upgrade at least makes the game playable.

JasonPratt

Quote from: Pete Dero on March 09, 2023, 11:55:38 AMCombat Mission Normandy (with new DLC) will be available on Slitherine & Steam on march 28th (according to the latest Tea Time).

I already own this (not the new DLC) and I STILL reflexively jerked my head over to double-check the date under the system clock...
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Redwolf

Quote from: rss334 on March 09, 2023, 05:00:41 PMAnyone hears when the Engine 5 upgrade is coming, currently their games are unplayable except on the lowest settings for me and in larger scenarios the mouse panning lags so bad it's frustrating to play.  Really hoping the new engine upgrade at least makes the game playable.

No mention of v5 in recent BFC communications.

What hardware do you have?

rss334

Quote from: Redwolf on March 14, 2023, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: rss334 on March 09, 2023, 05:00:41 PMAnyone hears when the Engine 5 upgrade is coming, currently their games are unplayable except on the lowest settings for me and in larger scenarios the mouse panning lags so bad it's frustrating to play.  Really hoping the new engine upgrade at least makes the game playable.

No mention of v5 in recent BFC communications.


What hardware do you have?

OK Thanks, gaming pc with rt3080 .   All the battlefields games run like crap, stopped buying after red thunder

Jarhead0331

Quote from: rss334 on March 09, 2023, 05:00:41 PMAnyone hears when the Engine 5 upgrade is coming, currently their games are unplayable except on the lowest settings for me and in larger scenarios the mouse panning lags so bad it's frustrating to play.  Really hoping the new engine upgrade at least makes the game playable.

Unplayable on a 3080? I don't think so, brother. Your problem must be related to some other aspect of your hardware.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


SirAndrewD

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on March 14, 2023, 07:44:56 PMUnplayable on a 3080? I don't think so, brother. Your problem must be related to some other aspect of your hardware.

Yeah, I'm not seeing that.  I have all the CM games and they ran perfectly well on my old 2080 Super and my older system with a 1st Gen Titan and a Ivy Bridge E I7 CPU.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

Tripoli

Quote from: rss334 on March 14, 2023, 07:09:24 PM
Quote from: Redwolf on March 14, 2023, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: rss334 on March 09, 2023, 05:00:41 PMAnyone hears when the Engine 5 upgrade is coming, currently their games are unplayable except on the lowest settings for me and in larger scenarios the mouse panning lags so bad it's frustrating to play.  Really hoping the new engine upgrade at least makes the game playable.

No mention of v5 in recent BFC communications.


What hardware do you have?

OK Thanks, gaming pc with rt3080 .  All the battlefields games run like crap, stopped buying after red thunder

I am playing unmodified Combat Mission using a CTX 1660 Ti without any problems.  Right now I'm doing a battalion-sized PBEM match on a 1700x2200 meter map, without any issues.  I believe your 3080 benchmarks at 30% faster.  See https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-3060-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1660-Ti/4105vs4037  Based on this, I agree with JH that there is something off with your setup.
"Do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?" -Abraham Lincoln

JasonPratt

THE PROMISED TIME HAS COME!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2297010/Combat_Mission_Battle_for_Normandy/

On sale for only US$122.36! That's like 24% off on average!  :Party:


More importantly, I found both my BF password and my CMx2 keys where I had the prescience to archive them in case such a day, not to be even hoped for at the time, ever came.

How to use them, exactly, I don't know yet. But I shall be researching, in accordance with links upthread!

Where by "upthread" I basically mean "here", courtesy of fellow Groghead Pete Daro: https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?msg=723570
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!