Main Menu

DCS Discussion

Started by republic, October 28, 2013, 06:25:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Destraex

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 23, 2023, 08:23:18 PMI'm generally not a big fan of the VSN mod stuff since they usually don't have custom 3D cockpits or even cockpits that are clickable and they all use EFM, but this one looks pretty damn good. Might have to check it out.

I also don't go in for DCS mods. Mainly because you never really know how accurate they are and if I recall their are some things locked out to modders. Apart from that I have my hands full with the genuine modules, no point pushing into the realms of fantasy. I have a friend who loves mods and as he delves deeper is finally realising what is missing from them. He is starting to notice the bedrock they are usually built on that cannot be changed, i.e. another actual bonified DCS module. I appreciate the modders work, but for me their just is not much point.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Jarhead0331

^well, you're missing out because there are some truly notable exceptions. The Community A-4E and the T-45 Goshawk to name a couple. These mods easily rival and in some ways exceed the quality of official modules.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Skoop

Not to mention some of these mods become payware full fledge 3rd party modules.

Toonces

Man alive that F-4 mod is loin-moistening.  I really need to get my HOTAS set back up soon.
"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Destraex

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 24, 2023, 07:25:24 AM^well, you're missing out because there are some truly notable exceptions. The Community A-4E and the T-45 Goshawk to name a couple. These mods easily rival and in some ways exceed the quality of official modules.
How do you know they exceed the quality of the official models? Did the DCS devs say that after checking the flight model and instrumentation performance data? Or do you just mean they look good?
I assume when they become paid DCS world insists they prove their data is valid and they are then also forced to meet the DCS standards.

In any case I don't feel I am missing out. I would never get to them anyway. Time would not permit it. Best to spend any time I use in DCS to learn the modules that are already known good tested and verified up to standard.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Jarhead0331

Quote from: Destraex on January 25, 2023, 03:08:44 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 24, 2023, 07:25:24 AM^well, you're missing out because there are some truly notable exceptions. The Community A-4E and the T-45 Goshawk to name a couple. These mods easily rival and in some ways exceed the quality of official modules.
How do you know they exceed the quality of the official models? Did the DCS devs say that after checking the flight model and instrumentation performance data? Or do you just mean they look good?
I assume when they become paid DCS world insists they prove their data is valid and they are then also forced to meet the DCS standards.

In any case I don't feel I am missing out. I would never get to them anyway. Time would not permit it. Best to spend any time I use in DCS to learn the modules that are already known good tested and verified up to standard.

Honestly, why should I bother answering your questions since, you "would never get them anyway". I don't need to convince you to try something that is free and takes a minute and a half to install.

It's all good. Rock on with the modules that are verified to your exacting standards.  :ThumbsUp:
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Destraex

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 25, 2023, 07:01:09 AM
Quote from: Destraex on January 25, 2023, 03:08:44 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 24, 2023, 07:25:24 AM^well, you're missing out because there are some truly notable exceptions. The Community A-4E and the T-45 Goshawk to name a couple. These mods easily rival and in some ways exceed the quality of official modules.
How do you know they exceed the quality of the official models? Did the DCS devs say that after checking the flight model and instrumentation performance data? Or do you just mean they look good?
I assume when they become paid DCS world insists they prove their data is valid and they are then also forced to meet the DCS standards.

In any case I don't feel I am missing out. I would never get to them anyway. Time would not permit it. Best to spend any time I use in DCS to learn the modules that are already known good tested and verified up to standard.

Honestly, why should I bother answering your questions since, you "would never get them anyway". I don't need to convince you to try something that is free and takes a minute and a half to install.

It's all good. Rock on with the modules that are verified to your exacting standards.  :ThumbsUp:

You are right. You are in no way obligated to validate or prove your statement to me. I guess I came off harshly because I get the impression you are now a treating me as a hostile witness.  :judge:

You made the statement, "These mods easily rival and in some ways exceed the quality of official modules." and I was curious how you came to that conclusion for both myself and my friends that seem to love these community mods and insist on playing on servers that support them. Personally I am never sure of the quality of the mods (I am sure it varies as it is not quality checked by the officials) and whether they have advantages they should not in multiplayer.
So I have been pointing out the flaws in the community mods to my friends as they use them and how the underlying modules they are built on top of show their heads every now and then.

I know DCS modules and missiles are going to be different (on purpose) to the real thing in some respects but in multiplayer I am kind of against the mods. However the counterargument would be that even DCS modules have many different but standardised flight models, which means nothing is ever really balanced. The aircraft with the simpler or more complex flight models will sometimes be at an advantage or disadvantage because they are all in the mix at the same time. At the end of the day though it's just people having fun. Everybodies fun is different and in a simulator some people like "Exacting standards" "the best standard possible" overseen by the developer and officially stamped.

I totally get that you are excited about DCS mods and were simply expressing your passion for them. I also get that you probably just think I am starting a debate for the fun of it just to be contrarian. I can assure you I was not. But you probably know me well enough by now to know that. Peace out.  :peace:

P.S. The other thing of slight concern is the internet wilds that contain these mods and trust in the download. I remember there was a scare recently with some mod that contained a virus of some kind. I think it was a false alarm in the end though. I notice some of the DCS mods instead of being direct links take you to what appears to be somebodies dropbox somewhere.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Jarhead0331

There are certainly a lot of mods that, like you, I won't bother trying because they are simply an external model, but otherwise contain no aircraft specific avionics, flight model, custom cockpit, or interactive controls. But I'm not talking about those. There are a handful of extremely high quality mods that are worth any diehard fan's attention, including the two I already named. It is not difficult to look them up and see why. Hell, even ED showcases them in their own marketing videos and materials. By any reason able standard these are exceptional modules and I would gladly pay for them, full ED price.

As far as requiring meticulously researched and accurate modeling, sure I'd like to think that makes a difference to me...but at the end of the day, I can only take someone else's word, since I've never actually piloted any of these aircraft, so who the hell knows? Can I really perceive whether the handling of the Hornet, viper or tomcat is correct? Not a chance. So, any inaccuracies impacting my sense of the aircraft would purely be psychological.  :ninjameditate:

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


SirAndrewD

Holy carp, the latest iteration of the VSN F4 Mod is amazing!

It's right up there or better than their Starfighter.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

CaptainKoloth

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 25, 2023, 07:54:25 PMAs far as requiring meticulously researched and accurate modeling, sure I'd like to think that makes a difference to me...but at the end of the day, I can only take someone else's word, since I've never actually piloted any of these aircraft, so who the hell knows? Can I really perceive whether the handling of the Hornet, viper or tomcat is correct? Not a chance. So, any inaccuracies impacting my sense of the aircraft would purely be psychological.  :ninjameditate:



It's amazing how many people on the ED forums or reddit or such places will complain about the flight models of certain aircraft being inaccurate. I always think when reading those complaints... how the heck do you know how the aircraft is supposed to fly? (Sure, some real ex-fighter pilots play DCS, but they're not generally the ones whining on reddit).

Destraex

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 25, 2023, 07:54:25 PMThere are certainly a lot of mods that, like you, I won't bother trying because they are simply an external model, but otherwise contain no aircraft specific avionics, flight model, custom cockpit, or interactive controls. But I'm not talking about those. There are a handful of extremely high quality mods that are worth any diehard fan's attention, including the two I already named. It is not difficult to look them up and see why. Hell, even ED showcases them in their own marketing videos and materials. By any reason able standard these are exceptional modules and I would gladly pay for them, full ED price.

As far as requiring meticulously researched and accurate modeling, sure I'd like to think that makes a difference to me...but at the end of the day, I can only take someone else's word, since I've never actually piloted any of these aircraft, so who the hell knows? Can I really perceive whether the handling of the Hornet, viper or tomcat is correct? Not a chance. So, any inaccuracies impacting my sense of the aircraft would purely be psychological.  :ninjameditate:


Completely agree. I can only trust the officials have made sure they themselves and any paying third parties under their system have been vetted for the highest quality according to what the engine and the standards ED have laid out can afford. Generally including not doing modules without all the correct manuals, data and if possible input from actual pilots who flew them before releasing. Then I can be reasonably assured that I am getting the best study simulation to satisfy my curiosity about how they flew and how capable they were against each other.

Those that were showcased technically could just as easily have been AI or upcoming modules, but are most likely to encourage the community of modders who still buy the modules to support their mods. I do know that ED are kind enough sometimes to help modders and am happy for said modders. I used to love mods for all kinds of games but another downer in recent years is the number that have had patches break them or teams simply fade away for your fav mod. Where the Hawk as far as I am aware is the only official module to have suffered such a fate thus far.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Skoop

I recently read a review of the Apache by a real Apache pilot who stated the dcs Apache is more twitchier and harder to fly than the real life Apache.  But I'm not sure if all the auto pilot dampers are modeled yet.  And the Apache's flight model is a work in progress.


Skoop

Also, if you guys like those VSN mods, there's a server that exclusively runs those as a Vietnam war server.  It's pve coop, and the guys are really chill......check it out.

SirAndrewD

Well, I just joined you guys in the RTX 4090 club. 

If Grogs was set up in a JV/Affiliate program they'd be run out of a palace that would be the envy of the Sultans of old Araby for the sales they inspire.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback