Back in the water!

[MarkShot]

Actually, I made a mistake in that post.  To avoid MAD, you have to get to 800' or so.

I wanted to SNEAK out, but to get you that deep, pushes you up against the FFG.

It would be easy to launch on the FFG immediately with a flying fish.  With the helo (SC/SCX/DW/LWAMI), if you stay shallow enough, I believe, their air dropped fish don't work.  Then, after the helo is out, you would need to go deep and break contact.

[MarkShot]

By the way, were you Nefarious Koel over at Subsim?

[MarkShot]

I have completed the SD Breakout mission in the Akula.

Status.  You are detected in the hardbor.  An FFG and helo is looking to sink you.  You must put 15NM between yourself and SD without being detected.  It is your option whether you kill your enemies.

My preferred approach was to get out by stealth.  Although, I have short range SAMs which can be fired from the Sail, this does not want to really have a duel with an ASW helo.  And, of course, the FFG will immediately know here I am.  Again, if I sink the FFG, the helo will immediately know where I am.

The proper was to sink the FFG (forget the helo; it is a low value asset) is to put a lot of distance between me and it.  Note, where it is located, and then fire an ASW missile down its bearing.  As soon as lauching, go deep and run so that any aircraft vectored to my position will not find me at the launch site.

But getting back to the stealthy escape.

As noted yesterday, the ASW helo with its MAD/SAD detector is the biggest problem.  I start in only a about one hundred feet of water.  The Helo can detect a sub if it is traveling at about 200' almost down to 800' if it passes right over it.

So, the first thing I do is make turns for 10KTS while hugging the bottom until I can get to a depth of around 600'.  At the same time, I am monitoring the FFG's pinging.  It is generally doing a barrier patrol of my most likely path to escape.

I put a range circle on my boat.  I am generally going to try to avoid maneuvering when the FFG breaks 5NM.  Also, when it does, I am going to bottom my boat and just sit.  When on the move, the most I will do is 5KTS.  When I get in over 1,000' of water, I will deploy the TA as a further indication if the the FFG is closing.

I bottom about three times.  The FFG never detects me.  The helo is finally recovered.  I parallel the FFG barrier patrol, and then exit the area.

I haven't done it yet (even though I have won), but I think I will sink it ASW missile for fun after this.

Some screenshots ...

My initial run out to deeper water.



Bottoming the boat as I wait for the FFG to go by.



A TMA plot of the FFG based on its active sonar pinging.



What the actual track of my sub and the FFG look like.  The ASW helo has already been recovered.

[MarkShot]

(duplicate)

[MarkShot]

I just ran the launch of the two SS-N-27ASM at the FFG.  Well, I escaped without a problem, but the FFGs long range and close in defenses neutralized them.  It then raced to the launch area and didn't find me.

[MarkShot]

What deploying MAD/SAD looks like.



What a MAD/SAD hit looks like (really bad news for your sub).  It not only means to them that they go you, but they are right on top of you!



BTW, I haven't tried the other platforms ... only the subs.

[MarkShot]

All in all, not a bad day for nuke boats.

I just finished a dynamic scenario which I had created to practice.  You can pick up to any of one of four subs to control.  There are up to four randomly generated surface ships and one Red Force sub.

The idea is to find and kill the Red Force sub before it does the same to you.

So, I chose a 688i and a Seawolf was generated.  So, I was outclassed in terms of sensors, speed, and number/rate of countermeasures which I could deploy.

Well, I was looking for it.  I was thinking one of the neutral surface craft was a POSSUB, when WHAM! TIW (torpedo in the water).

First, I tried one active sonar pulse to see if I could get an exact fixe on who launched it.  (No reason not to do that.  Normally, that gives your position away, but the shooter already knows where you are.  So, a good active search can help to quickly level the playing field.)  No joy!  Then, I launched a snapshot down the bearing.  Most likely he shot direct.  At the very least, it will give him something do instead of just targetting you again.  I fired off a couple of active decoys and rang a flank bell going deep.  I set a course 45 degrees off the approaching fish which was opposite my previous direction.

(1)  You want to change general drift, since you must assume that the fish was launched to lead you.

(2)  You want to try to get out of the seeker detection cone.  Simply going 90 degrees off the launch bearing is a mistake, since you want the decoys to be closer to the seeker head than your boat when they light up.  Going 0 degrees (running straight away) is a mistake, since if the fish was launched, it will run through the decoys and then reacquire and catch you.  45 degrees gives the fish a chance to acquire the decoy and get distracted.  By the time, it is through the distraction hopefully you have displaced out of the seeker cone.  (Note:  a fish without a lock up will S along looking for a target.)

If as soon as the fish is launched, you hear rapid pinging.  Then, the shooter is close and it is unlikely that you are going to break lock.  With or without decoys.  Of course, in a game of long range hunting, shots are generally taken as soon as positive ID can be established.  Otherwise, you risk not being the first to shoot.

So, there were actually two fish fired at me.  The second right after I slowed having survived the first.  I managed to dodge both of them.  In mean time, my second snapshot got the Red Force Seawolf.  Perhaps it failed to notice the me as along the same bearing was a noisy merchant.  So, maybe my launch and torpedo's noise got drowned out by the fishing trawler.

Well, glad that I didn't pack this in yet.  Almost did ...

[Bison]

Mark there is an AAR section that you can use here to keep your thoughts and actions so they don't get buried underneath all of the daily threads and chatter.

You do some fine write ups on your gaming exploits and the AAR section helps others to follow your on going action.

Good stuff btw.

[Nefaro]

By the way, were you Nefarious Koel over at Subsim?

Yes.  Had been hangin' there a long time, but not visited much in awhile.

[Nefaro]

I just ran the launch of the two SS-N-27ASM at the FFG.  Well, I escaped without a problem, but the FFGs long range and close in defenses neutralized them.  It then raced to the launch area and didn't find me.

The AI ships' air defenses in DW will murderize your anti-ship missiles.  I'd go so far as to say some part(s) of the stock air defense model is overpowerful.  You generally have to let loose with a full tube load of ASMs to even have an inkling chance of getting one through.  Firing at least five missiles, and preferably six or more depending on the class of warship, is recommended.   In the case of a lone OH Perry frigate, with the one-armed bandit launcher,  three missiles should probably end up in at least one hit but the vanilla game is more difficult here as I would often see 4 being shot down at once.  I don't even think the old OHP's SM1 missiles were very useful against sea-skimming missiles at all anyway (being meant for higher altitude anti-air duty in those earlier versions) so the Phalanx gun is probably the only one likely to shoot one of those sea-skimming ASMs down and it's range is so short that it couldn't get but one or mayybe two on a stretch.

Although I think LWAMI probably reduced the AA overkill in this department, or they wanted to at least.   Can't recall if it was a hard-coded thing.

Edit:  I also recommend copying & pasting your AAR in the AAR section, since it'll probably be visible on the front page longer on that one.  After you're done, of course.  8)

[jomni]

I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it.  How I miss working those sensors. :)  But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.

[MarkShot]

Mark there is an AAR section that you can use here to keep your thoughts and actions so they don't get buried underneath all of the daily threads and chatter.

You do some fine write ups on your gaming exploits and the AAR section helps others to follow your on going action.

Good stuff btw.

Well, this won't become another 1830PC multi-year thread.  I only have 4 weeks before my desktop goes offline.  I have no idea what I'll be playing in the future.  Also, after 4 weeks or so, my USA ISP account of 13 years will be going away which means any posted screenshots.

[MarkShot]

I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it.  How I miss working those sensors. :)  But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.

The learning curve is quite large (concepts and systems).  Similar to that of modern jet study sim.  However, it can be very educational and pretty much for first person gaming the only options are Sub Command and Dangerous Waters.  It's funny how with so many people playing digital games these days, for some subject matter, the options are incredibly limited.  Short of buying SC/DW, your only other option is to enlist.

[Nefaro]

I don't have DW but have the sub sim titles that came out before it.  How I miss working those sensors. :)  But learing the game need a lot of work and I'm an aviation guy.

The learning curve is quite large (concepts and systems).  Similar to that of modern jet study sim.  However, it can be very educational and pretty much for first person gaming the only options are Sub Command and Dangerous Waters.  It's funny how with so many people playing digital games these days, for some subject matter, the options are incredibly limited.  Short of buying SC/DW, your only other option is to enlist.

LOL

I recall seeing an old X-Play review on Dangerous Waters that was joking about how massive the manual is (570pg), and how it's so difficult to learn that they may as well have joined the Navy.

[MarkShot]

Yes, the manual is 500+ pages.  However, in reality it was closer 200+ pages.  Much of the information across platforms was highly redundant.  As each platform section was written as if that was the only platform the player was reading about.  Although from a reference useability point of view, it was better to not split key UI information between common elements and platform specific elements.

The manual is pretty good compared to many hard core games.  However, naval warfare basic concepts for gamers is probably harder to find than other genres like air and ground combat.