Star Citizen

[glen55]

The Oatmeal has some serious fans.

...and none of them are members of PETA.

Oh, they're just as happy to blow up babies.  Making fans doesn't seem to be the point.

[Huw the Poo]

As for the comparisons between the response to Smart vs. Molyneux, I think part of it is that Molyneux's latest disaster is already out and a mess. Also, he has made a career of the same formula of 'hype up upcoming game and say it makes up for last one, release puddle of crap that doesn't come close to hype, start hyping next game which will totally make up for this one'. Roberts doesn't have that same long tail of failure going on. However, if this does bomb or come up far short of expectations (and he's hyped it up so big that it almost has to at this point), he's done. No way dude ever works in the games industry again.

It's a matter of opinion, but I'd say Molyneux's record is far more impressive, and I say that without even regarding myself as much of a fan.  Look at his credentials: Populous, Dungeon Master, Theme Park, Syndicate, Magic Carpet, Theme Hospital etc.  And in later years, the very successful Fable series and then, of course, Black and White.  Sure, his games don't always live up to the hype, but none of those games suck.  Godus is the only game he's struggled with, and even then, there's an actual game to be played.

Meanwhile, what's Roberts done?  Wing Commander and Freelancer - and I would argue that although it has plenty of fans, Freelancer is a crap game.  Now look at what he's doing with Star Citizen.

People have short memories.  Molyneux has accomplished tons more than it appears Roberts ever will, and deserves much more respect in my opinion.  It's disingenuous at best to compare the two, and I stand by my comment that RPS are being hypocrites by treating the two as they have.  If anyone deserved the mauling that Molyneux got, it's Roberts.

[Arctic Blast]

As for the comparisons between the response to Smart vs. Molyneux, I think part of it is that Molyneux's latest disaster is already out and a mess. Also, he has made a career of the same formula of 'hype up upcoming game and say it makes up for last one, release puddle of crap that doesn't come close to hype, start hyping next game which will totally make up for this one'. Roberts doesn't have that same long tail of failure going on. However, if this does bomb or come up far short of expectations (and he's hyped it up so big that it almost has to at this point), he's done. No way dude ever works in the games industry again.

It's a matter of opinion, but I'd say Molyneux's record is far more impressive, and I say that without even regarding myself as much of a fan.  Look at his credentials: Populous, Dungeon Master, Theme Park, Syndicate, Magic Carpet, Theme Hospital etc.  And in later years, the very successful Fable series and then, of course, Black and White.  Sure, his games don't always live up to the hype, but none of those games suck.  Godus is the only game he's struggled with, and even then, there's an actual game to be played.

Meanwhile, what's Roberts done?  Wing Commander and Freelancer - and I would argue that although it has plenty of fans, Freelancer is a crap game.  Now look at what he's doing with Star Citizen.

People have short memories.  Molyneux has accomplished tons more than it appears Roberts ever will, and deserves much more respect in my opinion.  It's disingenuous at best to compare the two, and I stand by my comment that RPS are being hypocrites by treating the two as they have.  If anyone deserved the mauling that Molyneux got, it's Roberts.

Most of what you listed came out 15+ years ago, making it as meaningless today as anything Roberts put out before SC started up. The only recent releases for Molyneux are the Fable series (which grew increasingly messy, with increasing hype, with each subsequent release) and Godus. Roberts seems like a gigantic douche with an ego the size of a small city. Molyneux is a snake oil salesman. Were this 200 years ago, he'd be hawking 'miracle elixirs' out of a covered wagon. Both should be drummed out of game development and neither would be missed.

[JudgeDredd]

I don't know anything of the background story outside of this.

Found it on Youtube re Star Citizen and mismanagement. I'd be interested in impressions on this discussion? Especially as there is some discussion round here about the lack of progress towards an end.

Just hyperbole? Any legal validity in any of the chat? Would be interested in JH's take on it as he's the lawyer I know around here (I understand there are different types of lawyer....so...)

Warning for some language for anyone sensitive to such things

[JudgeDredd]

I do have one question...

It's a fairly simplistic one just based on numbers, but what in god's name has happened to a game that was looking for $4m on kickstarter to one that has raised $80m+ on and is still not complete?

[FarAway Sooner]

Dredd, the term professional project managers use is "scope creep".

[JudgeDredd]

$80m jump - that kind of cash can give you considerable scope to creep to  ;D

[Jarhead0331]

Just hyperbole? Any legal validity in any of the chat? Would be interested in JH's take on it as he's the lawyer I know around here (I understand there are different types of lawyer....so...)

This is a very new area of liability, and in some cases criminal culpability, being explored by authorities. I posted about the first prosecution filed by a US authority against a kickstarter for failing to deliver on a theory of fraud.  The kickstarter was recently found liable and ordered to make restitution.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/11/9310945/kickstarter-court-victory-attorney-general-washington-asylum-playing-cards

For the first time, a Kickstarter campaign has been ordered by a state court to pay restitution and civil penalties for failing to deliver rewards to its backers. The judgment, filed July 22 in Washington state, sets a precedent there that companies and individuals who accept money through crowdfunding are beholden to deliver on their promises.

[Father Ted]

I do have one question...

It's a fairly simplistic one just based on numbers, but what in god's name has happened to a game that was looking for $4m on kickstarter to one that has raised $80m+ on and is still not complete?

I know I've said this before, but what I think's happened is that they've realised that they can sell dreams better than actual videogames.  Once you stop selling dreams and start trying to sell a finished game , then the revenue dries up - so keep selling dreams as long as you can.

[smithcorp]

I know I've said this before, but what I think's happened is that they've realised that they can sell dreams better than actual videogames.  Once you stop selling dreams and start trying to sell a finished game , then the revenue dries up - so keep selling dreams as long as you can.

Nicely put.

[Yskonyn]

I have been reading the Escapist articles these last few days. Didn't even know about this whole issue before , except Smart's blog.
Interesting read.

[Jarhead0331]

Well, I'm still VERY skeptical and the game is nowhere near where it should be, but I can state that significant progress has been made. Version 2.0 of the Alpha was recently released and it contains the first release build of the FPS environment and a portion of the persistent online MP universe. What I have experienced is promising. If Roberts delivers half of what he has promised, this will still be a spectacular game. It looks great and feels epic. The scale of objects and vessels feels much larger than the experience in Elite. However, the physics in Elite feels much more authentic. Not sure if that is a factor of SC being in alpha, or if its just the "wing commander" arcade style. Still, it has my attention now...I only ran from my quarters and hopped into a ship for literally a 5 minute flight. I took a few quick snapshots and will post more later.

Is it $100,000,000 worth of progress...I don't think so. But there is definitely something here. You can jump in with a ship package now in the $25-$35 range, I believe.

[ArizonaTank]

I think video game companies spending lavishly on themselves, and their creative talent, is just what Hollywood has been doing for almost a century. 

If they build a game for $100 million, that would have been done by someone else for $10 Million, and they blew the difference on lavish salaries and perks for themselves, was there a crime?  Not saying any of this is a good thing...but I am guessing there is no law against it.  As long as they deliver what they promised.

However, ole' Marx is probably smiling in hell; Star Citizen brings new meaning to "the Opiate of the Masses".

[jamus34]

Guess it depends on whose money you are spending. I know of 1 specific game I bought at full price that was not a full price game (Brink).

Considering I refuse to even pre buy games anymore I won't support a kickstarter. If the game is good sure I'll buy after the fact but I won't support a pipedream.

To me this crowdsourcing drive is crap. They want consumers to become investors with no benefits to being an investor.

[Zulu1966]

I have been looking at this but to be honest I still have no idea what the game is about. What do you do in it ? Also - some of the prices for ship packages look absolutely ridiculous.