Middle Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread

[Erax]

I need to have a good look at the situation and for that I need to get home. I will post a plan tonight.

[Erax]

I said I wouldn't double-check the math but I ended up having to do it anyway to find out how much each faction is earning.

JP, you forgot to give Ethel the double knight cash bonus, he should have an extra T$ 6 this turn.

We have a Dictator position, two provinces and two concessions to hand out, then we have three wars to fight. Here's the plan.

I propose Claudius of the Plutocrats as Dictator, *provided* he agrees to the following package deal:

Aemilius gets Censor, as proposed before, provided he agrees to not prosecute anyone who votes for the package deal.

The Conservatives are sitting on large reserves but have the lowest income out of all the factions so they should get the Tax Farming concession (it will still leave them at the lowest income but it's better than nothing).

The Aristocrats get the Land Commissioner concession as a small compensation for losing Scipio.

The two provinces offer little to nothing until they develop, so I suggest we ask for volunteer governors who MUST be honest and stay honest until the provinces develop, we want them to develop quickly and not be a drain on Rome. This incidentally rules out both my Senators.

On to the wars.

Fabius takes 5 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Lusitanians, for a total of 5 + 5 + 4 - 6 = +8.
Claudius takes 4 regulars + 3 veterans vs. the Illyrians, for a total of 2 + 4 + 6 - 5 = +7.
Flaminius takes 9 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Macedonians, for a total of 4 + 9 + 4 - 10 = +7.

Fabius gets the extra point because we don't want the revolt to survive and start attacking our newly-created provinces.

This plan does not require a vote, as long as 1) Fabius agrees and 2) Claudius agrees to propose the above package deal, Claudius is appointed Dictator and then he can propose the deal, setting a voting order if he so wishes.

[JasonPratt]

This should be considered a Contract proposal by the way.

Once enough people have signed on for a majority (and other agreed conditions, like not prosecuting anyone who joins the contract), then I'll start processing automatically.

I can confirm that Erax is correct about my missing the double-knight income for the Plutocrats -- which is weird because I explicitly wrote down a reminder to count the knights twice! (It can be seen in my segment 1 income post for the Plutocrats!) Nevertheless, I forgot to add another 6. Fortunately this did not affect anything the Frog was doing. I'm currently keeping 6 in the Faction Treasury, but if he wants me to distribute them out some more I will.


Note that aside from questions of honesty ;) , Plautius is serving as Roman Consul this turn, and Flam is the permanent PontMax, and so neither can be given a Governor post.

[JasonPratt]

Fabius gets the extra point because we don't want the [Lusitanian] revolt to survive and start attacking our newly-created provinces.

Claudius, as Dictator, would also get to appoint his Master of Horse, and add that Mil Skill to the headquarters buff.

Assuming he would appoint a senator with enough Mil (not necessarily having to be a Militarist in this case?) to maximize his HQ buff, the math would be 7 Legions (regulars and vets) + 3 Vets (counted again for their extra attack) + 7 total Mil (Claud 2 + assuming a MoH with at least 5 Mil, giving all Legions an extra attack) -5  Illyrian Land strength = +12.

(The current Contract Proposal would not forbid Claudius from appointing and bringing a MoH either.)

This could affect the calculus about who should be sent where: if you need to whomp the Lusitanians hard now, the Dictator/MoH team would be the best to Deploy there.


Note that while Paullus Macedonicus would outright eliminate the Macedonian War D/S chances, Erax can't include him in the Contract unless he's Dictator, so with the Consuls already taken Paullus would not be able to Deploy. (He could still go as MoH, but then he couldn't use his special ability.)

[Ethel the Frog]

I don't fully understand, but I will accept these terms.

[Erax]

Right, there's a MoH, silly me. Claudius can appoint as he wishes (remember the MoH can't be given a province later).

Let's amend the war proposal to:

Claudius takes 6 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Lusitanians, for a total of 2 + 6 + 4 + MoH - 6 = +6 + MoH.
Fabius takes 4 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Illyrians, for a total of 5 + 4 + 4 - 5 = +8.
Flaminius takes 8 regulars + 3 veterans vs. the Macedonians, for a total of 4 + 8 + 6 - 10 = +8.

[malize]

It may just be the antibiotics talking, but I'll agree to this.

[Ethel the Frog]

That works.  What do I need to do next?

[Erax]

Pick a Master of Horse, preferably with a 3+ MIL. Needs to be in Rome, in a faction and not in major office (exception: the Censor, because another one would soon be elected anyway). Bear in mind that whoever you choose, in practice, won't be eligible for governorship when we decide who gets the provinces.

After that you've already agreed to proposing the package deal above, so it is proposed, and you can pick a voting order (or not) if you want after which JP will handle it.

[JasonPratt]

If enough people sign onto the Contract (which may have happened already, my internet this weekend has been ssuuuuuuper unstable and I haven't been able to check yet), then voting order is irrelevant and isn't needed. No one can veto a Dictator Proposal (much less your appointment of some senator to MoH), which is where we're at now.

The Contract does not particularly spell out who will be sent to be Governors, though, so when we get to that point there will be a pause (deployment of the Dictator to war must come last) and possibly some 'manual' voting on a case-by-case basis.

[JasonPratt]

The current situation (status quo?! ;) ) is this:

Erax, playing the Roman Consul (thus the PM), has drafted a Contract.

Combining his original proposal set and his revision in accounting for the Dictator's (eventual) Master of Horse pick, here's the Contract draft:

I propose Claudius of the Plutocrats as Dictator, *provided* he agrees to the following package deal:

Aemilius gets Censor, as proposed before, provided he agrees to not prosecute anyone who votes for the package deal.

The Conservatives are sitting on large reserves but have the lowest income out of all the factions so they should get the Tax Farming concession (it will still leave them at the lowest income but it's better than nothing).

The Aristocrats get the Land Commissioner concession as a small compensation for losing Scipio.

The two provinces offer little to nothing until they develop, so I suggest we ask for volunteer governors who MUST be honest and stay honest until the provinces develop, we want them to develop quickly and not be a drain on Rome. This incidentally rules out both my Senators.

On to the wars.

Claudius takes 6 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Lusitanians, for a total of 2 + 6 + 4 + MoH - 6 = +6 + MoH.
Fabius takes 4 regulars + 2 veterans vs. the Illyrians, for a total of 5 + 4 + 4 - 5 = +8.
Flaminius takes 8 regulars + 3 veterans vs. the Macedonians, for a total of 4 + 8 + 6 - 10 = +8.

There are some variabilities in this Contract which would have to be settled when I get to them.


Contract drafts per se cannot be vetoed because they aren't Proposals yet; and once this one gets going almost all its actions would be Proposals by a Dictator who cannot be vetoed. Consequently, once enough Players sign on for the Contract, I will process it automatically -- WITH THE PROVISION that Proposals on Governors still need to be voted on. (They can't be vetoed, but they can be voted down.) Also, it's possible the Censor may decide to prosecute someone who didn't sign onto the draft. (Such a prosecution could be vetoed.)


Right now, the Progressives (as Contract drafter) and the Plutocrats and the Populists have all signed on. (I'm assuming y'all agree with his revised combat deployment plan; if not, you should say so soon! ;) )

This is not yet a majority, I think, but I suspect one more Player's agreement would tip the scales. (My internet was super fluky this weekend so I haven't checked the votes yet.)

Therefore: we're waiting for a majority-vote agreement on this Contract draft to be reached. Or, alternately, someone playing a Tribune to kick off a different Contract draft.

Meanwhile, the Frog can be pre-planning whom to set up as Magister, which he can declare now or later if/once the Contract starts processing. Claudius IS NOT YET the Dictator! -- that's provisional on the Contract being validated by a majority of voting senators!

[Erax]

Actually, the two Consuls can appoint a Dictator both agree on without an election (which we do, provided Ethel accepted the contract, which he did). The way I see it, Claudius is the Dictator, he can appoint a MoH while we wait for the others to agree to the contract or not.

[Tripoli]

Just to let everyone know, I may be out of pocket for the next 36 hours.  I'm not sure, as I will be away from home, and don't know what the internet access will be like

[JasonPratt]

Actually, the two Consuls can appoint a Dictator both agree on without an election (which we do, provided Ethel accepted the contract, which he did). The way I see it, Claudius is the Dictator, he can appoint a MoH while we wait for the others to agree to the contract or not.

While that's true, once he's the Dictator I'm not sure you can draft a Contract Proposal of this scope anymore; and Claudius being Dictator was part of the Contract Proposal to begin with.

So there are two options:

(1) You and Malize (i.e. your Consul senators) appointing Claudius is still part of the Contract Proposal which, not quite having received a majority of votes signing onto it, isn't valid yet -- therefore Claudius isn't Dictator yet (although, especially having agreed to the Contract, he can still be making and even announcing intentions about whom he'll appoint as MoH);

or

(2) You and Malize agree to go ahead and appoint Claudius as Dictator, meaning Claudius (thus the Frog effectively) is now the Presiding Magistrate and he's the one who would be making Contract Proposals of this sort. Of course he could use your draft of the Contract as a base, although if he made any alterations then the prior Players committing to the Contract (i.e. you and Malize) would get an opportunity to revise your agreement to it.

[Erax]

In that case let's go with option 1, it's simpler.