Not a wargame, but I think it would appeal to wargamers. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/19/to_infinity_and_beyond
Cool!
The designer, Phil Eklund, also came up with Airships at War (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/959/luftschiff) (Known earlier as Luftschiff) which I own but have yet to have the chance (or room) to play.
I have often wanted to get High Frontier, but the game is really hardcore in subject matter. I mean it is the astrophysicist's dream game!
Never let rocket scientists design games. At least not ones you plan to play with any sort of fun. If the game description lists a scientific calculator as required to play you're probably not in Kansas anymore (Kansas being fun).
Quote from: mirth on May 03, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
Never let rocket scientists design games. At least not ones you plan to play with any sort of fun. If the game description lists a scientific calculator as required to play you're probably not in Kansas anymore (Kansas being fun).
You should see the board and pieces! They have sins curves, mathematical symbols, and all sorts of gravity and orbital velocity lingo on them!
Quote from: mirth on May 03, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
Never let rocket scientists design games. At least not ones you plan to play with any sort of fun. If the game description lists a scientific calculator as required to play you're probably not in Kansas anymore (Kansas being fun).
I beg to differ. A friend of mine is a rocket scientist. For real. He designs games. Good ones. (Really good.)
BTW, he hangs here sometimes. So while some guys may overdo it, keep mind that not *all* of them do :)
The game seems compelling, but the seriously hardcore science driving it scares the ever living crap out of me.
I just noticed that my usual online game store has 6 copies of Mage Knight, on the other hand...ANd Earth Reborn on sale?! Sorry, wallet.
Quote from: Arctic Blast on May 03, 2012, 11:23:42 PM
The game seems compelling, but the seriously hardcore science driving it scares the ever living crap out of me.
I just noticed that my usual online game store has 6 copies of Mage Knight, on the other hand...ANd Earth Reborn on sale?! Sorry, wallet.
Snatch up those Mage Knights and resell them! They are like game gold at this point. I have a copy coming and will hopefully get some time to video it next week (at the end of the week, I have conference to go to and so I can't play it right away... :-\)
High Frontier 3rd Edition recently hit Kickstarter and is already reaching some nice Extras.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/highfrontier/high-frontier-0
I've been waiting & hoping for this to get re-released in a newer revised edition with some rules clean-up and extra bells & whistles. The used copies had been going for ridiculous prices for awhile now, and that didn't even include the expansion (which is included in 3rd Ed. + more).
My wait paid off. :)
Fortunately, it's also scheduled to be done this year.
Have you played High Frontier? I'm interested in the game as well and this might be a good way to get it. And the shipping to the Great White North is not much this time at only $8!
Too many games coming out.... :buck2: :D
Ooooo...yeah, I'm tempted by this one.
Quote from: Barthheart on July 07, 2015, 07:43:30 AM
Have you played High Frontier? I'm interested in the game as well and this might be a good way to get it. And the shipping to the Great White North is not much this time at only $8!
Too many games coming out.... :buck2: :D
I've not played it, but watched some vids and read up on it. Certainly a brain burner but well worth it to me since there will be two solitaire sets of rules in this edition - one for regular+colonization game and one for use with the new Interstellar add-on. I can gorge on the dense rules and subject matter by myself, without trying to convince other people to join me in what they would consider some kind of mental space exploration torture. ;D
The older editions were pretty scarce, as many of these Phil Eklund games from Sierra Madre have been, so it wasn't easy to come by for a decent price when I had been checking the last couple years. The base game was usually set at $150 or more, by itself. That's why I jumped on the KS.. to make sure I didn't miss it again.
Really enjoyed the other Eklund game I have,
Bios: Megafauna despite the rules needing many clarifications and some revision since my copy's printing. He's obviously a great designer and his science & pre-history themes are a refreshing change from the norm. I'd have more of his games if they weren't so damn 'Sold Out' all the time. I believe he announced that they were also going to reprint some of his other popular out-of-print stuff soon, along with High Frontier. Was wanting the human pre-history one too, when it gets reprinted.
Quote from: LongBlade on May 03, 2012, 02:49:49 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 03, 2012, 01:40:40 PM
Never let rocket scientists design games. At least not ones you plan to play with any sort of fun. If the game description lists a scientific calculator as required to play you're probably not in Kansas anymore (Kansas being fun).
I beg to differ. A friend of mine is a rocket scientist. For real. He designs games. Good ones. (Really good.)
BTW, he hangs here sometimes. So while some guys may overdo it, keep mind that not *all* of them do :)
And he's a key part of Staff Wargaming at Origins, using one of his games. Pretty approachable, for a rocket scientist. ;)
Then of course there's the guy that makes black holes for a living...
Arise, Chicken! Arise!
For those considering picking up HF 3rd when it hits retail in the next couple months:
There are 4 solitaire variants included in 3rd Edition High Frontier.
I'm not able to tell you the differences, or which I prefer, just yet. Because I have a lot of rules yet to be read and put into practice.
Regarding the reading, there are 4 manuals that come with this edition:
"Training Guide" is 23 pages.
"Colonization" main rules are 67 pages.
"Interstellar" rules 27 pg
"Reference Guide" is 63 pg - also contains the 3 or 4 pages of Solitaire variant rules.
Fortunately the manuals have larger fonts, so you blind old codgers can see them easier. Although I don't think the blind old codgers will ever skip complaining about font size no matter how large. :P They also have full color pics of some example components. Although I don't really see any illustrated examples of gameplay in the rule book, the Training Guide has an introductory walkthrough of the basics.
There are a number of rules changes & additions from 2nd Edition. So the game has changed a bit, in a few areas, with this newer version. They're listed in the front of the Colonization manual. I've never played previous versions so I can't contrast.
It was difficult to stop playing the Basic Game so that I could move on to learning the Advanced stuff. "One more turn" and all that. :clap:
There is a LOT of pre-planning to do. Many factors and approaches to run through in your head, based on what tech (cards) you currently have, the many places in the system you can possibly reach, with varying mixes of those cards + fuel loads, and the things to do there once you arrive.
In my Basic Game initiation, there was definitely a lot of "analysis paralysis". Just because there were so many options in rocket stack mix and selecting where I wanted to go first, along with calculating how much fuel I'd need for each. I doubt this planning time will ever be shortened much by experience with the game so multi-player games will probably be pretty long sessions with all the players constantly focusing, squint-eyed, on the board. Mentally planning ahead. There is no hidden information regarding the game components; the mental planning of all the possibilities (and sometimes risk) is where it's at.
Obviously not something the Gaming ADD type folks would enjoy, but I'm definitely enamored with it. Nerdgasmic.
The solitaire variants all require some of the Advanced Rules. The Advanced rules can supposedly be plugged into the Basic game in chunks. Probably more like you can leave a few of the bits out. Reportedly there was some kind of Intermediate rules in previous editions, but now it's just Basic & Advanced in 3rd, but the latter may have some modularity.
The basic game rules are fairly simple. Although I highly recommend running one Basic game, yourself, in order to iron out some of the situations being put into practice. Definitely had a steady number of look-ups for awhile. After getting the basics down, I'm comfortable doing the same with Advanced for awhile.
Some of the solo variants look to be primarily based on a hard timer. But one, called "CEO solitaire" IIRC, looks like fun. You have to gain a minimum number of VPs every solar cycle or you lose (program funding in thematic terms). So you have to keep making a steady stream of VPs, industrializing/colonizing more and more of the solar system. With some hitches, such as your required VP being increased for every manned crew you lose to accidents. I don't recall exactly what the final "win" condition is, but this definitely seems like a gauntlet style solo mode with a bit softer time limits and possibly optional use of the Interstellar colonization rules (end-game win condition?).
HF looks fantastic. I really want to grab a copy once it goes retail. The amount of negative buzz surrounding the rules has me thinking 4th edition.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Nefaro.
Quote from: Rekim on April 04, 2017, 08:33:25 AM
HF looks fantastic. I really want to grab a copy once it goes retail. The amount of negative buzz surrounding the rules has me thinking 4th edition.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Nefaro.
:)
The rules are probably better than those from previous editions. Hell, I have another of Phil Eklund's scienc-y games,
Bios: Megafauna, and the original rulebook in that one is pretty sketchy on details. The ones in previous versions of HF were reportedly in a similar style.
These rules for HF3 are probably a big leap ahead, despite some of the dual-use terminology not being used uniformly throughout. For example, I regularly see two different words being used for the same thing. For example mentioning, "the Green Player" and "the ESA Player" in different sentences of the rules. They mean the exact same thing, but no single one is used throughout. I had also read no part of the rules which make this color + player equivalency connection beforehand. Had to figure that out, all on my own, after noticing such repeated discrepancies in the rulebook and checking the player cards for differences in color. Minor detective work. ;D
Despite a handful of such examples, and the occasionally ambiguous sentence that is often clarified in the Glossary terms, or a different but related rule, I've been able to learn much of it. The Advanced Rules will take plenty trial run time to get it all memorized, but after playing the Basic Game I don't feel overwhelmed in doing so.
:nerd:
Also - I wouldn't be surprised if another version was eventually released some years down the road. They never seem to make many extra copies of Eklund's games so they're always "out of print" for long stretches. But who knows how long that would take? I'm happy with what I got in 3rd Edition, thus far, despite needing some definitive FAQs on some things.
I have a copy of the 3rd edition too -- I am very happy with it also.
Unfortunately, from what I have heard, it will never go to retail. They made enough for the KS folks, there were some limited copies you could preorder direct from OSS, but they are all supposedly accounted for. They mentioned when all the preorders ship, they may have a few left over, but that's about it.
QuoteHave had a couple inquiries about High Frontier being sold out. Once the dust settles from all the shipping we'll be taking an inventory of what's left (not much). If we find enough copies remain, we will put them back up for sale (but there won't be very many).
Source: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcdf87b/1702
The designer is already talking about a 4th edition, but not with the same publisher (there was some drama, apparently).
Quote from: egg_salad on April 05, 2017, 08:36:37 AM
The designer is already talking about a 4th edition, but not with the same publisher (there was some drama, apparently).
The publisher dragged it's feet in getting the components to the printer over a year. During that time, the KS backers kept being told the proofs were "on the way" and the printing would start within the month (three times IIRC), in the rare KS updates, but that wasn't the case.
When the backers were getting up in arms after noticing the discrepancy in what they were being told & what was happening. Some understandably began thinking they were being lied to. A few of those began requesting refunds to only be told that the money had been spent on printing long ago. So that was the stinky situation for a year & a half.
After awhile Ekland (the original game designer) stated the if the game isn't actually in production by the 2-year mark that
he would pay for the printing to be done. Out of his own pocket. All he did was sign off on Ares (3rd Ed publisher) making the new edition, having no direct involvement with the KS for 3rd edition AFAIK.
Guess this turn lit a fire under Ares' ass in some way. Who had, after this, began blaming delays on the Chinese print company (one of the most popular designer board game printers) for rejecting some of their files as unsatisfactory and requesting more. At least that's what someone at Ares told us in a couple updates, over the next few months.
I expected it to show up.. eventually. Just not sure in what form. So I sat back and watched this mess unfold for awhile.
That they didn't make many extras in the print run - I'm not surprised. This is complete guesswork, but I got the impression that the KS publisher dropped the HF3 funds into all their projects, early on, and was scraping to cover it in the end. Along with some mention of the printing company wanting to renegotiate the printing fees since the original estimate was well over a year old by the time printing was being considered again.
TL;DR:
This edition/revision, which was supposed to be done and printed within a few months, ended up taking nearly two years from the KS start. Due to the company running the KS dragging their heels much of the time. Likely too busy with other production, KS, and such to bother with it for long stretches. Until the original designer chimed in and mentioned that
he would take over if they didn't deliver by a certain time. Which finally got the ball rolling. Arrived a year and a half after estimated delivery, but the complaints were primarily about months going by without updates, no progress, and especially the few updates saying "going to the printers next month!" being false.
Yes, I was a KS backer too. I tend to just try to forget I backed something and then be pleasantly surprised if it shows up. So I guess my expectations were so low, all the shenanigans did not bother me.
And, apparently, the designer has not heard from OSS/Ares since 2015.
https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Paxgames/conversations/messages/312
It is a mess.
For those looking to get it:
Apparently OSS has a very small amount of them left for sale on their site.
http://ossgamescart.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=75
A few retailers should be getting a few, too, although I wouldn't be surprised if they quickly sold out. Maybe even from just pre-orders.
HF3 isn't cheap. Nor light, at 11 lbs, so the shipping likely isn't cheap either.
.............................
Finished reading through the Advanced Rules this last week.
Will probably start up a Solitaire game with all the advanced rule modules (except Warfare) sometime soon. Also have some miniature painting calling to me, though, so.. decisions.
There's currently 24 at that site.
With shipping to my US address it comes to $128 USD... not so bad until you translate that to CDN = $172! >:( :'(
I don't mind paying a $100 for a game but almost $200 for one that will not get played with my group.....
Quote from: Rekim on April 15, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on April 09, 2017, 05:52:05 AM
There's currently 24 at that site.
all gone now :P
There's going to be one final batch of 100 for sale sometime soon, supposedly.
Source: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcdf87b/1750
Quote from: egg_salad on April 20, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
There's going to be one final batch of 100 for sale sometime soon, supposedly.
Source: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcdf87b/1750
Thanks for the tip ES. That post states that they will be putting the batch of 100 up for sale on a website, but doesn't mention a URL/site. Any idea which site?
Same post also alludes to a shit-ton of drama going down during the KS campaign. Doesn't sound like the developer is walking away with a warm & fuzzy feeling from the experience.
From a post on BGG:
QuoteThere will be about 100 copies for sale from OSS's website. I would not expect them to last long.
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcdf87b/1750
Guess they'll be sold on the same One Small Step website you provided a link to previously
http://ossgamescart.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=75
Barthheart - if you're still on the fence (as I am)....I could potentially be your local HF buddy.
Quote from: Rekim on April 20, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Barthheart - if you're still on the fence (as I am)....I could potentially be your local HF buddy.
:D At least then we'd have someone to play it with.
Quote from: Barthheart on April 20, 2017, 09:18:37 AM
Quote from: Rekim on April 20, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Barthheart - if you're still on the fence (as I am)....I could potentially be your local HF buddy.
:D At least then we'd have someone to play it with.
Yes! That, plus slightly better excuse for the boss following my next visit from Mr. UPS; 'But...I told Vance if he bought a copy, I would buy a copy. And wouldn't you know it...'
Quote from: Rekim on April 20, 2017, 09:11:39 AM
Guess they'll be sold on the same One Small Step website you provided a link to previously
http://ossgamescart.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=75
Yep, that's my guess.
Quote from: Rekim on April 20, 2017, 09:03:55 AM
Quote from: egg_salad on April 20, 2017, 08:32:11 AM
There's going to be one final batch of 100 for sale sometime soon, supposedly.
Source: http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dcdf87b/1750
Same post also alludes to a shit-ton of drama going down during the KS campaign. Doesn't sound like the developer is walking away with a warm & fuzzy feeling from the experience.
I was on the KS, and checked in every couple month or two on updates for the past couple years.
The people/company running that KS should take a lot of blame for long periods of zero updates. There for about a year, what little the backers were informed about it's progress obviously wasn't the whole truth. After hearing, "it's going to the printers next month!" for the second and third time over that year (or more), people started getting irate after feeling like they were being continually put on the back burner for other projects or something similar.
I didn't complain, and expected it to show up. Eventually. But my patience was also starting to get tested after the few repeated progress reports proving untrue. Chalked it up to the people doing this new revised edition repeatedly pushing it to the back burner in favor of devoting more time to other ventures.
TL;DR:
Their communication was just terrible. Almost non-existent and often nothing became of their statements until this year. So it's their own fault for the bad rep. It was as if they blew smoke up everyone's butts for a year and a half, then scrambled to get everything done once the backers started getting hostile & the original creator threatened to step in and take over. Then started complaining about delays from the Chinese printers (rather popular among board game companies) for not getting it done quickly enough after the last minute scramble.
Edit:
I'm happy with what I got, in the end. Certainly wasn't impressed with how this modified game reprint was left sitting for so long with little or no progress during the KS.
Agree, OSS needs to learn communication is important.
Case in point: My HF was pretty heavily damaged in shipment. I sent a note to the ossgames email.. and I hear nothing. A week and a half later, I sent a followup.. like -- hey, did you guys get my email? I get two separate emails, almost berating me for asking.. they had shipped me a replacement the day after the first email.
Great, the end result was good.. but how hard would it have been to tell me that when you originally sent it?
The game is available at the OSS store again.
The shipping cost to Ottawa, Ontario was a hair over $70US :wow:
I'm out
Shows 'Sold Out' again. :(
:-\
I can only imagine how much the opportunist resellers will soon be asking on Ebay and the Geek Marketplace. :o
QuoteHigh Frontier Replacment cards are here!
We have received the High Frontier replacement cards at our office today. We will begin mailing them out shortly after New Years. We've got several thousand to mail out, so please have a little more patience while we wind up this project.
Hrmm..
Props to them for printing & sending some replacement cards for those with errors, and communicating about their imminent shipping. :)
The two replacement cards have been arriving in the mail. Got mine yesterday.
Didn't know if anyone else got the KS - just a heads up to watch the mailbox if you did.
Kickstarter for the 4th edition is running now. Eight days left at the time of this post.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/684398802/high-frontier-4-all/description
and over 2661% funded already.
I sure am tempted to partake...but super reluctant to add to my library of games. Will see how my willpower holds up over the next week.
It's tempting to me too but I've watched some videos of it and my eyes glaze over at the complexity of the rules. Think I'll stick with SpaceCorp 2025-2300 from GMT for my exploration fix.
Broke down last minute and pledged for the core game. :cowboy:
there's still a couple of hours left
Looks like they had a huge surge at the end. One hour to go and I'm still resisting... :)
Hey @Geezer your resolve will be tested again soon as they are going to launch the pledgemanager and open up late pledges. :-" :2funny:
I am seriously thinking about jumping in. It looks like a truely fascinating game and I have two mates who are into anything real life life space project big time. Would be perfect to start playing this with them.
And it seems like there is also going to be extensive rules for solo play this time around.
Plus it has an officially supported TableTopSim module as well as a VASSAL one. Super cool stuff.
Looks like you can pre-order from their website. Not tempted...yet...since the price is not quite as good as the KS which is fair. Might just wait until it releases and think about it then.
So nice, I've now backed it twice.
Thought about getting the upgrade kit, but may as well get a full set for a bit more. It's nice to have upgrade kit options, but the prices just make me wonder why I don't get a full new game and just sell off the old one at some point.
Heads up: The pre-order price at their website gives you a much worse deal on pricing compared to making a late pledge via the pledgemanager.
The base game looks pretty involved. I've decided to pass on the expansion modules at this point. Has anyone played the 'Terawatt & Futures' and/or 'Colonization' modules and have an opinion on their value?
Quote from: Nefaro on December 30, 2019, 12:34:29 PM
So nice, I've now backed it twice.
Thought about getting the upgrade kit, but may as well get a full set for a bit more. It's nice to have upgrade kit options, but the prices just make me wonder why I don't get a full new game and just sell off the old one at some point.
I'm going to ask a dumb question: I'm a sucker for space exploration games. In terms of playability, how is this compare to Kerbal? It does look incredibly involved, so I'm not sure I would ever play it, as compared to a game of Kerbal of BASPM.
Quote from: Tripoli on December 31, 2019, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: Nefaro on December 30, 2019, 12:34:29 PM
So nice, I've now backed it twice.
Thought about getting the upgrade kit, but may as well get a full set for a bit more. It's nice to have upgrade kit options, but the prices just make me wonder why I don't get a full new game and just sell off the old one at some point.
I'm going to ask a dumb question: I'm a sucker for space exploration games. In terms of playability, how is this compare to Kerbal? It does look incredibly involved, so I'm not sure I would ever play it, as compared to a game of Kerbal of BASPM.
You're gonna have an easier time playing anything akin to this as a computer game. Especially when you're learning. It's got quite a learning curve, being a rather unique tabletop game.
That said, this tabletop game is different than KSP. Even though it covers a similar subject, it's approach isn't the same.