Russia's War Against Ukraine

[Uberhaus]

Note on French troops, sounds crazy but I think French troops taking over Ukraines logistics behind the lines and providing security on the belorus boarder could free up a ton of manpower right now and could be a short term solution.

and border with Transnistria.

[Skoop]

I saw the other day that Loyd Austin was pressuring Ukraine to stop with the Russian oil refinery attacks because it might hurt westerners more than Russia or have a domino effect on the fragile global economies thus hurting Bidens election chances.

Might just be political lip service, but I disagree.  The refinery strikes are the one thing that Ukraine can really hurt and affect Russia's war effort.  It's quite obvious that Russian oil is fueling its war effort and shrugging off the sanctions.
Ukraine should burn down all the Russian refineries......game on.

[JasonPratt]

Or per Red Storm Rising, go after the parts that are vital but difficult to replace. (Which seems to have been the plan so far.)

[Crossroads]

https://twitter.com/emilkastehelmi/status/1779531397109080242

 

Then again, providing Ukraine with SOA air defence capabilities and letting them handle the attacks is preventing attacks, too. But to do it directly, apparently a step too far. I don't have a opinion on this, but a well placed provocative question it is.

[FarAway Sooner]

I think this was a one-time attack that we had success in repulsing.  In Ukraine, my sense is that Western weapons systems (and anti-air systems in particular) have worked quite well, so long as they haven't run out of ammo. 

Of course, the West is dragging its toes to re-arm them with surface-to-air missiles, in part because our own inventories are so limited.  Of course, that could have something to do with the fact that a Patriot missile costs somewhere between 60 and 400 times as much as a Shaheed drone.

The nature of modern sustained warfare seems to require a different high/low mix than our current procurement systems seem interested to provide.  We seem to be taking the German approach to WW2 rather than the approach that actually won the war for the Allies.

Folks point to WW2 as a war of maneuver on the ground, but it really wasn't (in Europe at least).  It took 2 1/2 years of considerable bleeding through largely attritional warfare (much of it aerial) to weaken Germany sufficiently that the Allies were able to land on the French coast.

[Uberhaus]

It would be nice to see NATO frustrate Russia by shooting down drones and missiles launched against civilian targets. 

CNN had, I believe, General W. Clark on talking about how Ukraine had much more area to cover with AD, compared to Israel.

[Windigo]

That could be a tough sell, given that Russian oil refineries are on the drone menu.

[Jarhead0331]

CNN had, I believe, General W. Clark on talking about how Ukraine had much more area to cover with AD, compared to Israel.

General Clark, had his orders been followed by the British, nearly started World War III in 1999. Thankfully, he's no longer issuing commands, but hopefully those who do think twice about his advice. 

[Skoop]

I've heard many pro Russians cite that Clark incident in Serbia.  They tout that as nato aggression and the sentiment is probably what lead to Putin's rise. 

I don't buy all the nato expansion bad and caused Ukraine war that's being put out there.  Something has to keep the Russians in check from gobbling up the Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.  Eastern Europe is thriving living free from Russian rule, no way that would happen with out nato. 

We wouldn't need to move nato East if Russia would let Eastern Europe live in peace.

I think really, the failure is letting the Russians become enemies 22 years ago.  Nato moving East could have been a friendly alliance with Russia moving closer, some how diplomacy dropped the ball 20+ years ago.

[Windigo]

Never underestimate the power of monied elite types protecting their turf.

[Jarhead0331]

I've heard many pro Russians cite that Clark incident in Serbia.  They tout that as nato aggression and the sentiment is probably what lead to Putin's rise. 

I don't buy all the nato expansion bad and caused Ukraine war that's being put out there.  Something has to keep the Russians in check from gobbling up the Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.  Eastern Europe is thriving living free from Russian rule, no way that would happen with out nato. 

We wouldn't need to move nato East if Russia would let Eastern Europe live in peace.

I think really, the failure is letting the Russians become enemies 22 years ago.  Nato moving East could have been a friendly alliance with Russia moving closer, some how diplomacy dropped the ball 20+ years ago.

I'm certainly not pro-Russian. Just pragmatic, level-headed and citing a very well-documented fact. I personally draw no connection between the Pristina incident and the rise of Putin.

[GDS_Starfury]

ffs, they're building more on these things. 

https://twitter.com/i/status/1780311326218129808

[Gusington]

I remember when there was serious discussion of Russia joining NATO one day.

[Windigo]

I remember Patton telling Eisenhower to keep rolling east...

[Gusington]

Do you also remember Genghis rolling west?