Has it been that long since the release of Battlefleet Gothic: Armada I??
I can't wait! I think the first one is great.
More to be revealed from the developers next month, I've read.
I can already hear the clink as the gold piles up in the GW vaults..........
I have nothing against the game, and I badly want to like it -- but the fact remains that I have played maybe three missions in the campaign, and never any farther. ??? :-\
Sometimes the hot goth girl just... isn't worth courting after all, I guess? I am truly baffled why I can't get into the game.
How the hell do developers keep releasing sequels which are basically built on the woes of people who supported the first game. I dunno. This is kinda like re-marrying 10 days after your wife dies. Feels wrong.
Jason I am the same as you. This game has everything one could want except WEGO and Z axis. But even though I liked the game their just seemed to be no point to playing it.
Still the cut scenes were nice. The game needed soul that gave me a reason to play. I found Battlestar Galactica Deadlock a much more engaging game.
I guess one of the main problems in BFG1 was that I just felt like no matter what I did their was no real way to gain an advantage and win over the enemy. In real time as well, I will admit, the game was very clumsy. I played coop with friends mostly you see, we did not pause.
I wonder if a sequel to Space Hulk Deathwing will be announced next week?
Quote from: Destraex on January 24, 2018, 06:17:25 PM
How the hell do developers keep releasing sequels which are basically built on the woes of people who supported the first game. I dunno. This is kinda like re-marrying 10 days after your wife dies. Feels wrong.
Very good question.
I kept checking scuttlebutt about the first one, when it went on sale, as to whether it was in a good condition. Expected complaints, but there were a fair bit of the kind I look for; the ones regarding leftover bugs and performance issues left over after the developers moved on.
After numerous reports of the devs dropping patch development, I suspected they were going to be doing a re-release.
Rather glad I didn't buy the first one, now. Something kept telling me to wait because this exact scenario - the quickly followed up (and fixed) sequel syndrome.
It must be noted that the first one was a good game as 40k games go. COOP progression was good and a lot of fun. But once again, it just seemed useless at least in coop.
I always considered it inferior because of it's board game perfection philosphy whilst going real time at 100 miles an hour. But I did enjoy it just because there simply is no other BFG game out their and it did contain some nice customisation and options. They were just hard to use in real time. I don't regret getting the original.
The developers are Hungarian as I remember?
I have to say I was kind of surprised by this, but it also makes sense.
I dabbled a bit in Armada back in 2016 - I enjoyed it, I liked how the campaign was set up, (and I hated the Orks) but like most games I just stopped playing for reasons.
Was a bit worried though when 2017 sailed by and literally nothing happened with it. I'd figured they'd abandoned development, but ploughing forward with a sequel instead does make sense if there's still faith in the core idea but a company is hesitant to put too much time and resources into fixing the original game.
It is a shame to leave loyal fans of the first game in the lurch, but by the same token I'm often up for buying a game in the hope that the sequel will A/ be approved and B/ be the game we actually wanted No. 1 to be.
I felt that way about Battlefront 1, although was ultimately let down by the looks of what's happened with BF2. >.<
I bought the first one but never really got into it. Not going to buy this one especially since they have not updated the original since Nov '16. At least now we know what they have been doing with their time, since it obviously wasn't supporting the first game.
I enjoyed the first one for what it was. Will be watching though to see if this time around the game becomes amazing more than the first one was just a collection of ideas thrown together. I'd like to see the graphics improve and the game pickup some meaning especially when it comes to multiplayer. Z axis would be nice but I doubt that will ever happen. Which is strange considering this is real time and not a board game verbatim.
Quote from: Destraex on January 24, 2018, 06:44:39 PM
I always considered it inferior because of it's board game perfection philosphy whilst going real time at 100 miles an hour.
But it introduced
a super-slo-mo button
as standard function... ???
I remain enraged that the iPad version of BG is significantly better than this.
I'll get it on sale -- I really can't not -- but the decision to make this continuous time and therefore far more fiddly than it ever needed to be was an immense mistake. The iPad version is an elegant, faithful representation of the TT and the fact that its developers are blocked by this from bringing it to the PC (I asked them) really grinds my gears.
This follows the pattern of Blood Bowl in that they released, what, four versions it seems before finally getting it right? If only we stopped giving them our money.
Never happen ;D.
Quote from: Cyrano on January 28, 2018, 11:51:48 AM
I remain enraged that the iPad version of BG is significantly better than this.
The tablet version is great little game.
Quote from: mirth on January 28, 2018, 11:54:42 AM
Quote from: Cyrano on January 28, 2018, 11:51:48 AM
I remain enraged that the iPad version of BG is significantly better than this.
The tablet version is great little game.
Does it have a real replayability factor?
Especially for those that like hotseat battles?
And how is the RNG in the game? I've read it's even more broken (in favor of AI) than in most other games.
Battlefleet Gothic: Armada II is available on Steam 1/24/19.
The last phase of the beta is open now. I like it...the strategic game is better this time around. Moving fleets around to capture and hold sectors, which provide unique bonuses and perks, resource collection and fleet customization. As far as the tactical battles go, they feel similar, but there are strategic points to capture. Holding these locations earns you points and the side that collects the most points can win the battle without destroying the enemy fleet. I'm not sure if I like this, or not.
One thing I don't like so far is the maps. They are a bit..."busy"...if you will. Too many astronomical features and objects really distract from the ships themselves.
I have the original but never played it. With II coming out now should I even bother playing the first? This sequel looks better to me.
There is definitely a lot more going on in the sequel. Its certainly bigger, but I'm not sure if the gameplay is fundamentally better....too early to tell.
I also have the original but only put about 5 hours into it before deciding I didn't care for it. Will probably wait on this one for more comments here and reviews before deciding if enough improved to make me want it.
Thanks JH and Geezer. I almost want to buy II right now because it sounds TWish, in a good way.
Hopefully I will be able to hold out...
I'm not holding out. Going to give the beta a spin right now.
Post impressions!
Quote from: Gusington on January 20, 2019, 10:41:00 PM
Post impressions!
Spent most of the night looking at the Blood Moon through my Orion, but I've had a bit to give it a run.
Seems more fun than the first, that I played little of, on first impression. Impressive selection of fleets. Imperial Battleships seems really beefy. Lots and lots of options, too much to wrap my head around in just a few minutes.
Had a few crashes at start but running smoothly now. Very pretty.
I'll add some more later after I get to run through a mission or two. Just shooting up stuff with ships so far.
Thank you. I like me some beefy battleships.
I think I owe it to my wallet to play at least one campaign through of the original before buying the sequel.
Of course, I just noticed the special offer of 25% off for owners of the original game. Which brings the price down to a reasonable 29.99. Hard to resist that.
Quote from: Gusington on January 21, 2019, 10:18:30 AM
Of course, I just noticed the special offer of 25% off for owners of the original game. Which brings the price down to a reasonable 29.99. Hard to resist that.
That's why I jumped at it. I put in very little time with the first game, but I did own it.
I actually played around with both last night to refresh myself and compare.
I like the UI and the overall feel of the battles more in the new one. Things seem to move slower and more methodically, with the ability to pause giving a lot more consideration for tactics.
Campaign in the new one also seems to offer a lot more, but I didn't get to spend a lot of time with it and you can't save in the Beta, so I'm not going to really delve into that until later.
Not sure how I feel about the point capping system in battles. AI seems to go whole hog for the cap and spread themselves out pretty badly. I'd say so far the tactical AI is kind of poor, but that's just a first impression.
One complaint I had about the first seems to be in the second. Some battles just devolve into a slog of ships turning and offering broadsides until one goes down. Not much else happening with out extreme micro.
Also of note, for 40k fans, the story in Armada 2 is a lot more "relevant" than the story from the first game.
It takes place during the 13th Black Crusade, rather than the much older Gothic War. The Prologue of the game covers the story of the Fall of Cadia, and seeing it in all of its horror is pretty cool if you're into the lore.
So, strictly speaking, it's no longer a "Gothic" Armada? ^-^
I like my armada's as Gothic as possible.
Can you control what forces land on planets and take them this time?
One thing I thought felt empty and useless in the original was that in the campaign you would usually fight a "decisive" engagement to clear a planet or area and then it was just assumed you had the combat power to take the planet or system associated. The space marines especially would have been good at this.
This brings me to the point that you could not have a space marine element with an imperial element like you would in the lore for space battles.
Quote from: Destraex on January 21, 2019, 05:50:02 PM
Can you control what forces land on planets and take them this time?
One thing I thought felt empty and useless in the original was that in the campaign you would usually fight a "decisive" engagement to clear a planet or area and then it was just assumed you had the combat power to take the planet or system associated. The space marines especially would have been good at this.
This brings me to the point that you could not have a space marine element with an imperial element like you would in the lore for space battles.
No. There is no landing on planets. You move forces into a sector. If there is an enemy fleet you fight it in a tactical battle. If you win, or if the sector is unoccupied, you simply press a button to take control of the sector.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 21, 2019, 03:20:26 PM
So, strictly speaking, it's no longer a "Gothic" Armada? ^-^
Battlefleet Gothic still plays a large part of the story. The Imperials pretty much threw everything they had into the failed defense of Cadia, including fleets from other sectors and pretty much all the Space Marines they could muster.
So, it's still very Gothic. ;)
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2019, 05:59:31 PM
Quote from: Destraex on January 21, 2019, 05:50:02 PM
Can you control what forces land on planets and take them this time?
One thing I thought felt empty and useless in the original was that in the campaign you would usually fight a "decisive" engagement to clear a planet or area and then it was just assumed you had the combat power to take the planet or system associated. The space marines especially would have been good at this.
This brings me to the point that you could not have a space marine element with an imperial element like you would in the lore for space battles.
No. There is no landing on planets. You move forces into a sector. If there is an enemy fleet you fight it in a tactical battle. If you win, or if the sector is unoccupied, you simply press a button to take control of the sector.
Thanks. Just wondering also whether I should finish the old campaign before getting the new game at some point? It seems the old characters re-appear.
Also. Is multiplayer any good? I found the multiplayer in the original fairly bland. Fun for a couple of goes until you got used to it. Then there it kind of lost our interest. Don't know why. But I suspect that it was just too messy and too much like lining up and letting the ships fight. Rather than being invested. I know of the new capture points which definitely make the game less like blobs in space.
Oh and I cannot remember. Do all 4 sides have armour values? Or just one hull points bar?
Quote from: Destraex on January 21, 2019, 06:37:24 PM
Thanks. Just wondering also whether I should finish the old campaign before getting the new game at some point? It seems the old characters re-appear.
Also. Is multiplayer any good? I found the multiplayer in the original fairly bland. Fun for a couple of goes until you got used to it. Then there it kind of lost our interest. Don't know why. But I suspect that it was just too messy and too much like lining up and letting the ships fight. Rather than being invested. I know of the new capture points which definitely make the game less like blobs in space.
Oh and I cannot remember. Do all 4 sides have armour values? Or just one hull points bar?
I'm playing through the campaign in the old game just to do it. The Gothic War and 12th Black Crusade had a lot of bearing on the 13th, and the main character from the first game is back in the second, so it might be worth it if you're a lore guy to dig through the first even though the second does play better.
Haven't tried multiplayer, but I've heard complaints that the balance right now is really bad. I can't answer to it myself, but I really won't judge multiplayer till full release.
The capture system also doesn't seem to be a good idea as the AI is currently implemented. In the skirmishes I've done, I notice the AI sends ships in multiple directions to cap, and then sit there while the cap counter is going up. You can concentrate your fleet and hit them all at once, destroying them piecemeal. They won't even try to fight back much since the AI seems to prioritize capping over engaging.
I don't have enough time into it to REALLY see if that's a regular thing, but it's happened more than once when trying out the different fleets. I also saw a few reporting the same on the Steam forums. As it is I hope they do some tweaking before release.
^The campaign AI seems pretty week too. It doesn't appear to be aggressive at all. In the beginning, Imperial forces are heavily outnumbered, yet the enemy fleets do not appear to move in order to attack unprotected Imperial sectors, or move in order to threaten Imperial fleets.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 21, 2019, 07:58:09 PM
^The campaign AI seems pretty week too. It doesn't appear to be aggressive at all. In the beginning, Imperial forces are heavily outnumbered, yet the enemy fleets do not appear to move in order to attack unprotected Imperial sectors, or move in order to threaten Imperial fleets.
As much as I think that's going to be an issue of programming, I wish it was done from a lore perspective.
It's actually exactly what happened after Cadia fell in the 13th Black Crusade. The Chaos forces turned on each other, fighting over loot and scraps, giving the Imperium time to rally and Cawl time to go to the Ultramar and revive Gulliman so he could take command of the Imperium.
I doubt that's the intent, but that'd be a really cool way to give the Imperium player some time.
Yeah, I don't think so. They aren't fighting each other...they're just sitting there picking their noses.
I just bought it. Downloading now. I think it will be fun to compare campaigns like D did.
Quote from: Gusington on January 21, 2019, 10:10:58 PM
I just bought it. Downloading now. I think it will be fun to compare campaigns like D did.
Just remember, above all, regardless of anything....
The Emperor Protects.
And now his son protects us again.
Death to Chaos! Long live the Primarch!
You're creeping me out, D.
I thought the Emperor himself returned at the end of the assault on Cadia!?
That was several years ago though, and I guess I'm remembering what the win-condition plot plans were revealed to have been, had the Imperium players pulled out the win after all. (Though I thought the whole point of that plotline was to save their hash from losing.....)
Anyway, this plot makes better sense of the ongoing storyline.
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 21, 2019, 10:42:25 PM
I thought the Emperor himself returned at the end of the assault on Cadia!?
That was several years ago though, and I guess I'm remembering what the win-condition plot plans were revealed to have been, had the Imperium players pulled out the win after all. (Though I thought the whole point of that plotline was to save their hash from losing.....)
Anyway, this plot makes better sense of the ongoing storyline.
Current story goes like this...
Cadia was destroyed in the 13th Black Crusade. Big reveal is the other 12 were all successful too because Abbadon destroyed the worlds with the Necron Pylons on them.
When Cadia falls, the Eye of Terror expands into the Imperium, cutting it in half.
Cawl goes to McCragge and resurrects the Primarch of the Ultramarines, Robute Gulliman, last son of the Emperor, to lead the Imperium in its darkest hour.
Gulliman goes to Earth, declares himself Regent, unites the Imperium and goes on the counterattack.
Pretty much the shortest way I can put it.
Ok I take it back. Now you're really creeping me out.
Man...I was really out of the lore loop. I had no idea Guilliman had been revived! This is very exciting news, although I'm sure it will all still end in disaster for humanity.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 22, 2019, 11:26:00 AM
Man...I was really out of the lore loop. I had no idea Guilliman had been revived! This is very exciting news, although I'm sure it will all still end in disaster for humanity.
Yep, GW finally decided to have things happen in the lore. They sort of had to do something after years of their sales falling off on both tabletop and in the Black Library. They even had a year where they fell behind X-Wing in sales. After finally moving the lore forward, they've reclaimed their position at the top and then some financially.
Gulliman comes back and actually has a conversation with the Emperor, first time the guy has talked in 10,000 years. Then he writes the Codex Imperialis, reforms the Imperium into something more akin to what the Emperor would've wanted, writes an unbiased history of the Imperium available to all people, and ends divine worship of the Emperor.
He also uses his gene seed to create a new breed of Space Marine, the Primaris. Of course they're bigger, stronger and have new super advanced marks of Power Armor that the Mechanicum designs. At this point in the lore the Primaris Marines make up the majority of most of the major Astartes chapters.
And also of course, this means that GW sells all new large base Primaris figures, and if you want to be up on the current rules, you have to replace your old outdated Space Marines with the shiny new models. Only $60 for a box of ten! And now Gulliman is in the game too, with insane rules and a awesome figure only another $60 by himself!
And you can see why GW moved the lore forward.
This sadly is why I don't play the tabletop anymore.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on January 22, 2019, 02:54:09 PM
This sadly is why I don't play the tabletop anymore.
LoL, you could still play under the old rules, no?
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 22, 2019, 05:02:17 PM
LoL, you could still play under the old rules, no?
You can, but almost no one does. Regular Space Marines are still part of the army list, but they're so inferior to Primaris that it's pretty much a bad idea to use a lot of them unless you have to. Everyone loves the new hotness.
I could always play my 10000 plus points of
Imperial Guard Astra Militarium I suppose.
Well, it was a very slow work day at my new job where I work from home, so I got to play a lot of both games.
I remembered what I hated about the first. Data recovery and Assassinate missions and the canned feel of the campaign. The tactical combat is ok, and it looks good, but it just reminded me of why I put it down with only a few hours played. It's fun but didn't quite scratch the itch.
The new one just feels better. The ability to pause is a godsend. The way ships handle, the satisfaction of getting good angles and unleashing a lot of firepower. I'm really loving how the tactical combat pops.
The strategic layer is a whole different world and it feels a lot more Total Warish. The canned feeling is definitely waning for me now that I played it long enough to save games and actually dig into it.
Love love love the Imperium's roster compared to the first. Having the Mechanicius and Astartes is a big plus. Love sending the Imperial Fist ships on ramming and boarding runs.
I'm still totally not sold on the capture system. I can confirm that even in campaign, enemy vessels will sit on a cap point and not move, making them very easy targets for torpedo runs and boarding actions. The AI needs a lot of improvement in this respect. Honestly, the AI in the first game was better.
I think this one could grow into a keeper. Not sure if I can suggest futzing around with the original. I'm probably going to shelve it after tonight yet again and concentrate on the sequel.
I must futz!! It's been sitting on my desktop for 2+ years. Gotta get at least 5 hours before switching over to the newer, sexier precious.
And is your employer hiring?
Quote from: Gusington on January 22, 2019, 08:46:35 PM
I must futz!! It's been sitting on my desktop for 2+ years. Gotta get at least 5 hours before switching over to the newer, sexier precious.
And is your employer hiring?
Futz away!
And she is not. She's a very nice, rich attractive Polish woman who lives in Italy and has me selling contracts for her Publishing house. My wife's been working for her as a freelance ghostwriting interviewer for three years so I had a foot in the door.
Pays a bit less than teaching middle schoolers, sometimes. Commission can change that a lot. Gives me a ton of time to play more games though and work in my PJ's.
Are you kidding me?
Quote from: Gusington on January 22, 2019, 09:47:06 PM
Are you kidding me?
Would I kid about working for a hot, rich, lady who lives on the Italian seaside and gives me my instructions for the week through Zoom meetings?
^I...I don't know.
Just fired up both the first and second games just to futz and it is apparent that the second game is the first on steroids, even to a WH40k n00b like me.
I may fall in love with both!
Quote from: Gusington on January 22, 2019, 10:00:10 PM
^I...I don't know.
Just fired up both the first and second games just to futz and it is apparent that the second game is the first on steroids, even to a WH40k n00b like me.
I may fall in love with both!
They're both a lot more fun than they have any right to be honestly.
To finally not be creepy, let's here some good Imperial stuff.
For Gaunt! And the Tanith!
You must work harder on the not-creepy angle.
Quote from: Gusington on January 23, 2019, 02:42:12 PM
You must work harder on the not-creepy angle.
That's what my wife told me after the third restraining order. I guess I did something right, she married me instead of getting a fourth. :coolsmiley:
I like your style.
D, were the restraining orders to keep you away from her, or from tabletop gaming locations where guys all sit around and have creepy conversations about the way GW should tweak their game lore?
Quote from: FarAway Sooner on January 25, 2019, 02:25:08 AM
D, were the restraining orders to keep you away from her, or from tabletop gaming locations where guys all sit around and have creepy conversations about the way GW should tweak their game lore?
The latter.
Would the nice, rich, hot Polish lady be interested in publishing an award-winning but sadly overlooked epic fantasy novel which now has nearly 5000 copies floating around Africa freely for humanitarian reasons and also because my distributor kicked me out of the warehouse despite me paying rent faithfully for ten years?
:coolsmiley:
I could guarantee at least a trilogy out of it. 8)
Quote from: JasonPratt on January 25, 2019, 06:52:13 PM
Would the nice, rich, hot Polish lady be interested in publishing an award-winning but sadly overlooked epic fantasy novel which now has nearly 5000 copies floating around Africa freely for humanitarian reasons and also because my distributor kicked me out of the warehouse despite me paying rent faithfully for ten years?
:coolsmiley:
I could guarantee at least a trilogy out of it. 8)
Sadly fiction isn't our business model. :-\
The campaign AI seems totally broken. All it does is build up fleets and defenses on occasion. I'm 15 turns into the Imperial campaign and I am yet to see a single enemy fleet change position or move to a different sector.
:-[
There is an "urgency" system in the campaign that increases each turn. Apparently, enemy fleets do not start mobilizing until the urgency level reaches a certain point. I just reached that level and received a warning that enemy fleets would now begin mobilizing and attacking neighboring sectors. It is an interesting mechanic, but I think the urgency system needs to be tweaked. At this point, I've pretty much bottled up the remaining enemy fleets so unless they pull a chaos rabbit out of their hats, I'm not too concerned about losing systems to their attacks.
Could you riposte with a vorpal bunny?
{Monty Python joke goes here}
The threat system in the game is actually meant to represent the ebb and flow of the 13th Black Crusade, and provide some balance.
I was confused by it at first and thought the same as JH, the Chaos forces just sat there waiting early on.
However, like I hoped, it is meant to represent the pause after the fall of Cadia that allowed the Imperium to rally and counterattack.
As the threat bar increases, the enemy becomes more aggressive. I read further on the forums and apparently when some of the other factions come in, they're aggressive to the point that a few decry them as nearly impossible to stave off.
Mechanically, it makes the Imperial player stay on the offensive, discouraging turtling and building, which would end up being for naught anyway considering their massive resource imbalance.
It also prevents Chaos from wiping out the Imperium on turn one. It lets them represent the lore situation, having the Imperium in a strategically hopeless situation in terms of being outnumbered and outgunned, but giving the player an early handicap to turn it around.
Great!
Though it would be even more lorey if Chaos were fighting each other at first after their victory. >:D
I've also noticed that at some point in the early campaign, the strategic capture points stopped showing up in battles. My last several battles have been traditional engagements requiring total destruction of the enemy fleets.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on January 27, 2019, 09:43:06 AM
I've also noticed that at some point in the early campaign, the strategic capture points stopped showing up in battles. My last several battles have been traditional engagements requiring total destruction of the enemy fleets.
I noticed at the campaign start menu that the default was a mix of battle types. Cruiser clash, convoy etc. I wonder whether cap point was in that mix. You had the option to choose only one battle type.
A friendly tip.
While the urgency timer pushes the player to keep up a brisk pace and stay on the offensive, you shouldn't go TOO fast, and there are times that the timer can be milked a bit to let you build up.
For example, after you take the Cadian system, and before the story mission to repel the Chaos counterattack, you can wait until level three in urgency before additional Chaos invasions will typically spawn in large enough numbers to be a problem. That lull gives you precious time to build resources, tailor your fleet and collect battle plans from the listening post you can establish.
You'll need this, because when I rushed I found the second story mission to rescue Battlegroup Silver Dawn to be impossible when I tried to do it on turn 19. By milking the timer carefully, you can approach that battle with many cruisers and even battlecruisers which helps a lot.
Take care though, if you let the timer too long you could face an invasion randomly in the Cadian system of fleets sometimes as large as 1200 points in strength.
Also, do not fully upgrade the listening post in the Cadian sector. It's bugged and stops providing battle plans if you make it level III.
Thank you :notworthy:
Eldar are a real pain as the Imperial player, but can be dealt with.
Their shields are strong, but get wrecked when you detect them.
You can't out maneuver the Eldar, but you can keep forcing them back to the corners of the engagement area.
They're vulnerable to boarding actions, especially by Space Marines. Use it. You can turn them into derelicts fast if you get up on them and do a few good Honor of the Chapter and well timed boarding strikes.
Eldar also hate ramming and torpedoes.
They tend to stick in one spot and shoot from stealth. Nova cannons and Plasma Bombs can wreck them as they do this. A Stasis Bomb can lock them down in the spot if they aren't aware.