Someone's following the dev of this game? I like what i see....still a long way to go though...
http://shallow-space.com/ (http://shallow-space.com/)
Nice.
Also - with a name like that, does it have bewbays?
Two posts. It's a record! Except in the hotter threads, of course. :coolsmiley:
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 15, 2014, 11:36:06 AM
Two posts. It's a record! Except in the hotter threads, of course. :coolsmiley:
What do you mean?
The reference he made to female chest parts.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 15, 2014, 11:36:06 AM
Two posts. It's a record! Except in the hotter threads, of course. :coolsmiley:
We have standards to uphold, here. O0
Huh. A developer website which is essentially a Tumblr site. Kind of odd...
Quote from: Huw the Poo on August 15, 2014, 03:37:00 PM
Huh. A developer website which is essentially a Tumblr site. Kind of odd...
Odd...and annoying. Very difficult to navigate.
Agreed. With many, and small, updates it could kind of work, but with no grouping of information it's a bit useless.
Yes - very interested in the game and enjoyed watching the Youtube videos. Can't make heads or tails of the website.
Two things I like right off about this is the 3D movement UI that seems to have been taken lock, stock, and waypoint from Homeworld. Secondly, the ships seem to move slowly but realistically.
Seems like this has come a long way in a year (http://shallow.space/). The video is excellent, I'm getting a strong Homeworld vibe. The blurb is particularly encouraging (emphasis mine):
QuoteShallow Space is an action packed Real Time Strategy space game in a true 3D environment.
It's been 10 years since the true greats of the genre arrived on the scene (Homeworld and Nexus: The Jupiter Incident) and we think that by looking at what made those games great and adding a few twists of originality we can help breath a bit of life into the fairly neglected niché of the 3D movement, space-faring RTS genre.
Scope
Players will control a wide variety of heavily customizable ships throughout an in depth story line and skirmish scenarios, in single player and multiplayer throughout a variety of game modes. With a heavy emphasis on gameplay options, Shallow Space: Insurgency's asymmetrical balance will ensure plenty of variety and replayability.
The scope of play will be a set of planetary systems in which you will be tasked to assemble your battlegroup to deny the opposing force access to your zones of control.
You will do this by mining resources, building stations, acquiring blueprints for ships and weapons assembling your fleet from the individual turrets right up to flotilla organisation. You will complete both structured story and incidental missions for rewards and you will play the game as a battlegroup commander, a small cog in a very big wheel.
Execution
Shallow Space's gameplay will focus on the "macro" style of strategy games. Rather than spending all of your time piloting one ship, or even four or five ships, you will be commanding several flotillas across your designated sector of control. This allows players to focus on the strategy of combat, rather than the tactic involved with piloting a single ship.
Players will have access to a variety of tools to aid them in managing large scale war. Ships will be organized into "flotillas" and "wings," enabling easier fleet management in the intensity of combat. Furthermore, ships will be have some level of autonomy to them, they are piloted by an entire crew after all.
These ship organizations and intelligence allows players to focus on the big picture strategy.
The UI will have a variety of helpful tools, information, and automation to help manage your ships in this potentially difficult environment.
Players will even be able to pause, slow down, and speed up gameplay, all while being able to issue orders. Overwhelmed by too much combat? Pause or slow the game, assess the situation, issue commands, and then resume the game.
Early access begins in August, with full release planned for August 2016. You can currently buy in for a minimum of $15. I don't know about anyone else, but
I've certainly developed a raging boner!
Linux and Mac planned. Oh, and Windows, for those of you still using it. :P
Yep, definitely in on this one.
Quote from: panzerde on June 21, 2015, 03:00:23 PM
Yep, definitely in on this one.
You gonna buy into the early access, mate?
Quote from: Huw the Poo on June 21, 2015, 03:30:53 PM
You gonna buy into the early access, mate?
Yeah, I think I will. Looks pretty polished based on the videos I've seen. Even if a campaign isn't in place yet it looks worth it for the sandbox fights.
Safe. I'll look forward to your impressions!
I ended up buying into this too. Got an email recently to say to look out for a fulfilment email from Humble soon. Excitement! I'll be sure to post impressions as soon as I have any.
It's live! Downloading on Steam now. 461 MB download.
Excellent!
Soooo....
I can see that this is heavily influenced by the Homeworld series. I'm curious about how a campaign plays out though, since there is some brief mention of getting side missions or something. Is there some kind of exploration or non-linearity?
I'm interested but- as usual- combat looks hectic. Why games have to be so fast paced that you can't enjoy looking at things during battle I will never know. Anyway, is there a button that changes the battle to 1/2 speed or something?
Its pretty bare bones so far. Nothing but a pretty simple skirmish mode, a few hull classes and limited weapons and modules with which to configure ships. Furthermore, one of my peripherals is causing a conflict and keeps causing the camera to scroll to the left, so until I sort that out its unplayable for me.
All that being said, I really like where the developers are headed with this and they seem to be trying to create a distinctly naval feel, which I really like. I'd give it some time to cook in the oven if you're on the fence.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 21, 2015, 08:45:29 PM
Its pretty bare bones so far. Nothing but a pretty simple skirmish mode, a few hull classes and limited weapons and modules with which to configure ships. Furthermore, one of my peripherals is causing a conflict and keeps causing the camera to scroll to the left, so until I sort that out its unplayable for me.
Always ended up being a joystick I had plugged in, when that happened with other games in the past. Or a USB console-style controller.
I recall some people mentioning it being a regular problem with some drawing or drafting peripherals too, years ago, but I've never used 'em.
Quote from: Nefaro on October 21, 2015, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 21, 2015, 08:45:29 PM
Its pretty bare bones so far. Nothing but a pretty simple skirmish mode, a few hull classes and limited weapons and modules with which to configure ships. Furthermore, one of my peripherals is causing a conflict and keeps causing the camera to scroll to the left, so until I sort that out its unplayable for me.
Always ended up being a joystick I had plugged in, when that happened with other games in the past. Or a USB console-style controller.
I recall some people mentioning it being a regular problem with some drawing or drafting peripherals too, years ago, but I've never used 'em.
Yep...x-com did the same thing to me. It was the joystick being plugged in
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 21, 2015, 08:45:29 PM
Its pretty bare bones so far. Nothing but a pretty simple skirmish mode, a few hull classes and limited weapons and modules with which to configure ships. Furthermore, one of my peripherals is causing a conflict and keeps causing the camera to scroll to the left, so until I sort that out its unplayable for me.
All that being said, I really like where the developers are headed with this and they seem to be trying to create a distinctly naval feel, which I really like. I'd give it some time to cook in the oven if you're on the fence.
So would you describe the game in its current state as... Shallow? ;D
Quote from: Tpek on October 22, 2015, 08:42:54 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on October 21, 2015, 08:45:29 PM
Its pretty bare bones so far. Nothing but a pretty simple skirmish mode, a few hull classes and limited weapons and modules with which to configure ships. Furthermore, one of my peripherals is causing a conflict and keeps causing the camera to scroll to the left, so until I sort that out its unplayable for me.
All that being said, I really like where the developers are headed with this and they seem to be trying to create a distinctly naval feel, which I really like. I'd give it some time to cook in the oven if you're on the fence.
So would you describe the game in its current state as... Shallow? ;D
I see what you did there.
...so I seez this one is on sale for $5 over at HB (https://www.humblebundle.com/store/shallow-space) for the next day. Anyone still playing it?
Quote from: steve58 on May 19, 2016, 12:26:53 PM
...so I seez this one is on sale for $5 over at HB (https://www.humblebundle.com/store/shallow-space) for the next day. Anyone still playing it?
There's no game yet. In fact, they recently decided to take the game in a different direction. If I recall correctly, it's going from being a mission-based campaign to an open-world game. But in any event, completion seems a long way off.
Thx Huw O0. Found their updated roadmap (http://shallow.space/roadmap/). Might still pick it up as its only a fiver.
Yeah it must be worth a punt at that price; the game could be a good one eventually.
I have it already for a while but haven't played yet.
So believe it or not, this game has been revived by the developer and work on it appears to have started again. But don't throw any parties because the game has been taken in a totally new direction and it seems quite disappointing.
Starting in December, I began receiving in my email blogs from the developer talking about renewed efforts to continue development. I really wasn't paying close attention to them until I read in the latest blog that this game is now a MMORTS. It was a stunning admission that prompted me to go back to the prior blogs and review them more closely.
A lot of the details are still somewhat vague and ambiguous, and the developer seems to try to sugarcoat a lot of his new decisions, but the most shocking changes, aside from the fact that there is no longer any single player element to this and it is entirely MP focused, is that it is not even in 3D anymore.
The developer explained that the perspective and camera are the biggest changes, "gone is that completely three dimensional camera movement..." He even has the nerve to blame this on reports that "players were having headaches" but then concedes that "we want to be able to run this client on phones and tablets eventually." Excuse me, what!?
The blogs also explain that the developer doesn't want to be "chasing [his] tail trying to get the scale of the ships right, realistic ship scale is a fallacy, we spent 5 years chasing it, the capital ships will always dwarf the frigates and you loose the frigate details. Is it useful it anyways? It just becomes confusing in a game in which you need to notice and control your fleets undistracted." Again, what? If you can't even get simple scale right, how are you going to achieve anything?
Instead, the developer is looking to make this into a "more traditional RTS" with "tricks" whereby the ships are a representation like board icons on a game like Civilisation for example.
"In fact, the game is going to play a LOT like a realtime computerised board game."
Similar to the rework of the tactical layer, the strategy layer is also being converted to a 2D system, because "it's easier to understand and control, particularly when a particular planet is busy."
This is just the tip of the iceberg...but for a game that was initially marked as a 3D space combat game and spiritual successor to Home World with realistic features and single player focused story line and skirmish modes, this sure is a very strange turn of events. I think it is a real slap in the face to everyone who backed this game early on. They should have just let this die on the vine.
I'd rather something than nothing. I can deal with my failed investments. I suspect they told this guy he had to put up or give the money back?
I'd rather have the game that was marketed and what I paid for. I have no interest in a dumbed down mmorts aimed at a quick port to mobile devices and tablets. No thanks.
I would rather what you want as well. But I will count this one as a failed investment and see what IS a reslity. If it sux so be it. You know me anyways, I will probably hate it but I will certainly try it.
Well at least the name is aptly chosen.
I'd like to think that a very contentious discussion I had with the developer led to the latest blog post. Seriously, he is a total douche bag...but at least now he is being open and honest. Still patronizing though...
Quote
WTF is Shallow Space an MMORTS now?
Anytime a space RTS tries to rear its head someone manically screams Homeworld or Nexus. Originality is practically met with scorn. I understand now why there is nothing but vacuum where an abundance of RTS games should be ...
The rumour mill is grinding and speculation is abound, the machinery of development is moving and but the game is changing.
But what the actual fuck is going on?
This entire article is a reality check, it's rude, contains frank and unadulterated views and you might not like what you read.
Is Shallow Space an MMORTS?
Yes. But then when I look up examples of supposed MMORTS games I see examples of linear concepts, free-to-play and all sorts of things that we are not looking to be. Shallow Space 3.0 features a procedurally generated play areas with a backend designed to be run on a highly scalable backend (Kubernetes.)
We're not aiming to be the next Eve Online, there is no in-game chat or social bollocks. It's just that if we developed an AI in-game it'll be very simple and predictable and just as boring as the AI in any other RTS.
Playing vs. actual other Players (masquerading as AI) we hope will be far more interesting.
We're not interested in a cash grab, we don't intend on having you subscribe.
The server costs are going to be very light and we have no interest in starting an empire. We'll keep it to a small upfront cost, maybe with some premium skins or boats, run some donations on the landing page or something, we haven't really thought about it.
It's not going to be free, it just wouldn't work.
Is Shallow Space coming out on mobile now??
We're going to make it far easier to control. We're excited about the places we can go but fear not, we have our hands full with the PC version, we got ahead of ourselves, there are no plans to go mobile right now.
Why no single-player?
Because it costs too much to develop.
We would need language translations, three times the assets we currently have, game designers, storywriters, a far bigger team.
This is a rescue project: We tried to crowdsource it, it failed, we tried to run through Early Access, it failed, we tried to find a publisher but they had some pretty ridiculous demands.
Could we take the idea to an investor? We could, but that would mean writing game design docs, business plans, dancing a bloody jig, it would mean quitting my job (again,) risking my career and my livelihood for a second time over something as silly as a computer game.
The risks are just too high, and I'm not prepared to do it.
The only reason why I've picked the project back up again is because I'm working on something I enjoy. I don't enjoy running a business or giving 70% of the IP to some publisher and watching them turn it into another soulless hip shot.
Multiplayer games have a bad rep at the moment I get it, but still; no money, so no real choice.
What about Z axis movement?
The backend has been developed to support three dimensional movement, but honestly, it adds absolutely nothing to the game. We tried with two previous revisions and failed. If such a game is to work, it'll take a far larger team with far cleverer people than me to pull it off.
We would rather focus on creating something that is fun in other ways.
What about the physics and simulated ballistics?
Simulated projectiles, physics based movement. It made for a fantastic technology demo, looked great, but when it came down to it, it added fuck-all to the game.
I honestly don't know what we were thinking.
I guess we went off at the deep end, working on the stuff that looked good so we could pull in the crowd to support us.
Why? Because we were inexperienced, because that's what people were asking for and we wanted desperately to give it to them. We tried to make the game democratically, be the Jesus Christ of Real Time Strategy and because of that we started the project arse-about-face, we got sucked into the crowd and lost our way.
We fell into the Early Access trap well before we were ready and were too busy beating war drums to actually make a game.
We tried to reboot it, but the game suffered from the same mechanical and organisational issues.
Why? Because games need to be deterministic and predictable otherwise, it's not a fucking game. The damage needs to be pre-calculated, otherwise how hell do you balance that? You can't. It might work for an FPS, something with tightly confined parameters, a small amount units maybe, but not fleet battles.
Even if it were to work, the game fully lagged on anything but the best machines. It's not a wonder really, every single projectile had scripts attached. It was crazy to think it could work, but we had to continue, because it's what the fans wanted.
Sorry, that didn't work out - it was a risky endeavour, high chance of it not working out and no matter how upset you are, deep down I think you knew that.
But what about the fans that supported you that want X, Y, Z?
I can't worry about that.
The game is ratshit on Steam and frankly, it's difficult to imagine it getting to an even worse state. I could worry about what the fans might think all day long, but ultimately, I'll just get burnt-out again.
Honestly, it's difficult even listening to the majority of you because you've been starved of originality, so much so that anytime a space RTS tries to rear its head someone manically screams Homeworld or Nexus.
Originality is practically met with scorn.
I understand now why there is nothing but vacuum where an abundance of RTS games should be: You're intelligent, meticulous, demanding, technically adept, a completely impossible bunch to make games for.
You lurk in the shadows, watching but rarely contributing.
Most of you use javascript or ad-blockers so I can't even see most of you visiting the website. I have no real idea of how popular this project is (or isn't.)
I look about to my colleagues of the time to see how many of them made it, where are Limit Theory, Deep Space Settlement and the like?
Burnt the fuck out trying that's where.
Even if it was possible to continue to do things democratically with what little we have we would end up pleasing no-one and frankly, I'd just get bored making it.
It's time to take what we as a team have learned, own up to some realities and take the opportunity to try something different. There will be a few pissed off peeps for sure, but we tried to play it down the middle, now it's time to be contentious.
Maybe you'll like it, I hope you do, I ask you to keep an open mind.
Beside, I haven't just pulled this shit out of a hat, in the years i've been gone i've been to countless game conferences in the Netherlands, met with successful and failed game developers, spoke with devs from some huge studios (343, Bethesda) researched new ideas, understood new trends, and tried to bring them into the original Shallow Space specification.
I think this will be fun and I think it'll face up to the important parts of the original idea.
Think you can do better?
Please do try, there's more than enough room for all of us but some parting words of advice: Never start with the game of your dreams.
That's quite a word salad and all I really got out of it is that the developer is frustrated as hell, burned out, and wanted to do something new. Fair enough, but why not start a new project with a new name, even if you're reusing old assets or whatever?
Also:
QuoteThink you can do better?
Please do try, there's more than enough room for all of us but some parting words of advice: Never start with the game of your dreams.
This argument is the refuge of the weak. I don't need to be a great director to criticize a crappy movie, nor do I need to be a great writer to criticize a crappy book, nor do I need to be a great game dev to criticize a crappy game. If all you can say is, "I don't see you doing better," then you've basically admitted that what you did sucks and somebody else needs to do it better.
^I should share with you the text of the discussion I had with him. It is really remarkable.
Two of the questions the dev dealt with specifically I asked him and had answered by him last night. Namely z axis and plans for other platforms.
I am tempted to ask if he wants to be frank, how much money he pocketed in total. Just to be transparent. I l know though that the point here would be that he burned this up in full time development.
He was the one that advertised the game and made the promises. Now apparently all of that is a silly pipe dream. At least he is honest though.
Quote from: Destraex on February 16, 2021, 08:33:42 PM
At least he is honest though.
Yeah...but I literally had to force it out of him and when I told him why I thought he was making a mistake (after he asked) he got very nasty and rude. He basically said, "stop throwing a tantrum over something that cost you the price of a pizza..."
If it's just the price of a pizza to him, perhaps he should refund all the money? I mean it's just small fry to him by the sound of it.
Quote from: Destraex on February 16, 2021, 09:46:01 PM
If it's just the price of a pizza to him, perhaps he should refund all the money? I mean it's just small fry to him by the sound of it.
I asked if he would offer refunds and his response was, "why would I do that?"
I would love to see the whole interview.
Quote from: Gusington on February 16, 2021, 09:59:34 PM
I would love to see the whole interview.
I wouldn't really call it an interview. It was more like me telling him why I was bothered with the new direction and him telling me to deal with it. Sadly, he deleted some of his more colorful comments before I could copy them all, but I'll post up what I have when I get the chance.
I never enjoy kicking a man when he is down, but this guy was such a prick that I did chuckle when I read this email. Even this notice comes across as lazy, half-assed and totally abdicating of any responsibility. Just another slap in the face to those who supported the project.
Quote
We regret to announce that Shallow Space has been cancelled.
About a year ago we designed a new client that ticked a lot of the boxes that the community were looking for originally but we struggled to include, as time went on it became clear that the decision was contentious as it would remove a lot of the current look and feel.
We have to admit that it would have been quite a different game to what it is currently on Steam now.
There was also have a lot of legacy to deal with. It is highly unlikely that we'd have been able to cut though the negative reviews and press even if we were to create something amazing and frankly it has been soul destroying to even try. Even as we tried to rescue the project, people would continue to pile on negative reviews. To punch through that negativity we would have needed one hell of a marketing campaign which again, was not possible with no funds.
In the absence of funding we intended on it being a part time affair, driven by a couple of the original team members. But coding and community management don't really mix, personally I found myself feeling the effects of burnout yet again and the team had mixed feelings on the direction the project had decided to take.
In addition, with no funding, there was no hope of producing additional required assets that matched the expensive stuff we already had and we only had half the models needed. Trying to raise additional funds by selling the original assets elsewhere didn't work.
Hardest thing ever to admit defeat, but we simply don't have what it takes to finish this financially or mentally. Thanks to all the fans, there are other strong projects continuing the good fight, look forward to seeing them unfold.
Does it mean it will be removed from the library, even if i paid for it?
:buck2:
I hope it doesn't get removed from paying customers' libraries...that sounds very illegal.
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2021, 12:52:26 PM
:buck2:
I hope it doesn’t get removed from paying customers’ libraries...that sounds very illegal.
No. they never remove games from user's libraries. It can be (and likely should be) just removed for new purchases. I have a lot of games in my Steam library that are no longer for sale, and they can still be installed and played normally unless they relied on third party servers to function. For example, I can still install Marvel Heroes Omega from my Steam account, but it won't do any good because the it was online only, and the developers permanently shut down the servers. Steam won't pull it from your library even if the developers cripple it.
Quote from: Sigwolf on September 18, 2021, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2021, 12:52:26 PM
:buck2:
I hope it doesn't get removed from paying customers' libraries...that sounds very illegal.
No. they never remove games from user's libraries. It can be (and likely should be) just removed for new purchases. I have a lot of games in my Steam library that are no longer for sale, and they can still be installed and played normally unless they relied on third party servers to function. For example, I can still install Marvel Heroes Omega from my Steam account, but it won't do any good because the it was online only, and the developers permanently shut down the servers. Steam won't pull it from your library even if the developers cripple it.
That's not quite true. If you read the terms and conditions Steam has the power to do basically anything they want, including revoke games at will. You're not buying games on Steam, you're buying a license to play the games. This is the same way digital movie, book, and music purchases work. There have been some rare instances of Steam revoking games from user accounts, including the ability to download them again. IN PRACTICE this almost never happens, but in theory it can at any time. That's why it's Blu-rays, physical media, and GOG all the way down for me, baby... (I buy tons of stuff on Steam to be clear, but it's not my first choice if I can get it elsewhere for that reason)
I find it amusingly ironic that the discussion of possibly raising one's pitchfork against Steam this way is done in a thread of an atrocious abortion of a game. :DD
Quote from: Yskonyn on September 18, 2021, 02:59:52 PM
I find it amusingly ironic that the discussion of possibly raising one's pitchfork against Steam this way is done in a thread of an atrocious abortion of a game. :DD
I'm not defending this flaming dumpster fire of a game or getting up in arms about it possibly one day being taken off Steam. Just making a general point about your rights over digital goods that you're purchasing. No digital marketplace is forever, and if one day you just lose access to it, the terms and conditions generally give you no recourse.
No explanation necessary. It also wasn't a stab at you. On the contrary; thanks for making me smile!
Still doesn't make the thing any less amusing.
I supported it. You win some you lose some. It's just a game at the end of the day. This is the second space RTS game I have been burned by however. Also pretty much the only games I have been burned in early access by thus far that I remember.
Shallow Space and Legends of Pegasus.
At least Legends of Pegasus was a quick death. A real shame too. Devs never even gave it a chance after release. Which means they never intended to.
Quote from: CaptainKoloth on September 18, 2021, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: Sigwolf on September 18, 2021, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 18, 2021, 12:52:26 PM
:buck2:
I hope it doesn’t get removed from paying customers’ libraries...that sounds very illegal.
No. they never remove games from user's libraries. It can be (and likely should be) just removed for new purchases. I have a lot of games in my Steam library that are no longer for sale, and they can still be installed and played normally unless they relied on third party servers to function. For example, I can still install Marvel Heroes Omega from my Steam account, but it won't do any good because the it was online only, and the developers permanently shut down the servers. Steam won't pull it from your library even if the developers cripple it.
That's not quite true. If you read the terms and conditions Steam has the power to do basically anything they want, including revoke games at will. You're not buying games on Steam, you're buying a license to play the games. This is the same way digital movie, book, and music purchases work. There have been some rare instances of Steam revoking games from user accounts, including the ability to download them again. IN PRACTICE this almost never happens, but in theory it can at any time. That's why it's Blu-rays, physical media, and GOG all the way down for me, baby... (I buy tons of stuff on Steam to be clear, but it's not my first choice if I can get it elsewhere for that reason)
Well, in over 15 years on Steam with more than 1700 titles, I have never had anything removed from my account, so I am not losing sleep over it. 8)
To put it another way, if you read the terms and conditions of the universe, it can send a meteor that will wipe out all life on Earth. In practice it's unlikely to happen, but in theory it can at any time. Then all the physical media and GoG titles in the world won't do anyone any good. :hide: :DD
I get your point, and I am also a fan of physical media, and DRM free options like GoG. I have a large DVD/Blu-ray collection for video because it is still an option. With PC games, however, physical media is rarely an option any more, and GoG's catalog is hardly exhaustive. When I get something on Steam, I don't worry that GabeN is gleefully rubbing his palms waiting to arbitrarily remove it in the future.
But back to the topic... No one needs to worry about losing access to Shallow Space if they purchased it. It won't see any more updates, and since the publisher itself has listed it as a cancelled early access project, the listing should indeed be pulled from the Steam catalog. This would not affect those that have already bought it, as they would still be able to play and/or download it in the future. Delisted games don't even lose their discussion boards, so nothing would be lost for those that own it.
This is sig worthy: "To put it another way, if you read the terms and conditions of the universe, it can send a meteor that will wipe out all life on Earth. In practice it's unlikely to happen, but in theory it can at any time." :notworthy:
:DD
I always thought a strike by a life-killing meteor was a statistical certainty. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but the word on the street is that it has happened before and given the timelessness of the universe and the vast quantity of flotsam and jetsam among he stars, it is really only a matter of time...but I guess I digress. :-X
Quote from: Gusington on September 19, 2021, 10:16:15 AM
This is sig worthy: "To put it another way, if you read the terms and conditions of the universe, it can send a meteor that will wipe out all life on Earth. In practice it's unlikely to happen, but in theory it can at any time." :notworthy:
Who reads the terms and conditions ?
We all clicked 'accept' and this is were it got us.
Quote from: Pete Dero on September 19, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: Gusington on September 19, 2021, 10:16:15 AM
This is sig worthy: "To put it another way, if you read the terms and conditions of the universe, it can send a meteor that will wipe out all life on Earth. In practice it's unlikely to happen, but in theory it can at any time." :notworthy:
Who reads the terms and conditions ?
We all clicked 'accept' and this is were it got us.
I never clicked, my mom did.