Ardennes atrocities

[besilarius]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/11605822/Anthony-Beevor-There-are-things-that-are-too-horrific.html

It will be interesting to see if a discourse opens on this.  The allies are always depicted as so righteous, but nothing brutalises like deadly combat.
The only similar thing for the western allies I can think of is the accepted story of the Canadian - Hitler Jugend tit for tat massacres in Normandy.

[Airborne Rifles]

Rick Atkinson addresses some of this in the third book of his liberation trilogy, The Guns at Last Light. He talks about the atrocities in Normany, the Ardennes, and also the summary execution of concentration camp guards by U.S. troops fight before the end of the war.

[mirth]

I respect Beevor's work (he's tackled some very tough subject matter and done an excellent job), but I disagree that atrocities committed by US and British soldiers is still a taboo subject. It's definitely been written about and acknowledged in the last 15 or so years. If it's depicted in Band of Brother's or Saving Private Ryan, it's not really a taboo subject anymore, it's pretty well mainstream.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Somewhat related.

I picked up Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of WWII on a Kindle sale a few months back.  Quite an interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World-ebook/dp/B006ZL9C8E/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1431989589&sr=1-1&keywords=savage+continent

[mirth]

Cool that you've read it. I didn't know Beevor had a new book out so I'm glad this thread was started. I'll pick up a physical copy as soon as I can. He is an excellent author. I think he wrote a book about the invasion of Crete that was done before Stalingrad made him famous. I'd really like to pick up a copy of that one.

[Gusington]

I just picked up Beevor's Battle for Berlin.

[mirth]

Great book. Brutal though.

[Gusington]

I took your advice and am doing some cheery reading on the Pacific War to cleanse my palette after finishing Ian Kershaw's The End yesterday...before starting Battle for Berlin.

[mirth]

Yeah, those books back-to-back will not make you feel great about humanity.

On the other hand reading much about the PTO probably won't either. At least it's a slightly different flavor of evil.

[Airborne Rifles]

Cool that you've read it. I didn't know Beevor had a new book out so I'm glad this thread was started. I'll pick up a physical copy as soon as I can. He is an excellent author. I think he wrote a book about the invasion of Crete that was done before Stalingrad made him famous. I'd really like to pick up a copy of that one.

Crete...as a paratrooper just the mention of that battle makes me shudder.

[mirth]

Yeah. That's one of the really amazing nightmares of the war. A testament to training and willpower overcoming the odds.

A 'He who dares, wins' moment if there ever was one.

[Gusington]

Reading about WWII at 40 is very different than listening to my Grandparents when I was 8 or so. WWII may have been the most serious bout of collective insanity the world has ever seen. It's amazing there is still a world to inhabit. God bless the WWII generation. They make us look like total morons 

[mirth]

People certainly seemed to be much more stoically accepting about life sucking, but finding a way to get by anyway.


Most days I think we've become the 'Pampered Generation'.

[Gusington]

Life sucking in the northeast US in 2015 is very different than life sucking in Germany in May 1945 or China in 1932 or North Africa in 1942.

Can you imagine the debate on social media today if we were faced with having to use nukes again? We'd never even finish the debate, never mind take action.

9/11 was the closest event that we've had to bring us together in modern times, and any positive legacy from it is already fading.

[mirth]

Life sucking in the northeast US in 2015 is very different than life sucking in Germany in May 1945 or China in 1932 or North Africa in 1942.

Or Russia pretty much ever.