Author Topic: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart  (Read 13467 times)

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #60 on: December 09, 2017, 08:21:33 AM »
I wonder how many fans have taken up VR's offer to make the DC3 engine available for creating other campaigns? I suppose if I were less lazy I could go find out...  :crazy2:
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Offline Crossroads

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #61 on: December 09, 2017, 10:04:37 AM »
I wonder how many fans have taken up VR's offer to make the DC3 engine available for creating other campaigns? I suppose if I were less lazy I could go find out...  :crazy2:

There was at least a Winter War module out, in addition to a Volkov to Tichwin sample by VR themselves.
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Offline Barthheart

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2018, 08:39:44 AM »
....
0.) The campaign designer(s?) chose to put the famous 19th Corps with all its famous power and leaders (Rommel, Guderian, etc.), totally out of position. Even Falkenwrath (or whatever his name was, in my headcanon it's this so there  :P ) was largely out of position -- and he was the most competent corps remaining in East Prussia! In their place were a weak reservist division (treated like a corps, Brandt's Gruppe); and a weak corps made of two weak reservist divisions (Wodrig's). Plus some scattered auxiliaries attached to the army HQ, like a sizeable but still reservist garrison division that would take me several turns to a-historically move out of place to try to make up for problems.
....

Man for the longest time now this statement has stuck in my brain.... because I believed it to be a false one but couldn't find an easy way to disprove it.

This map shows the disposition of the Germans on Aug. 31, 1939. XIX Corps and XXI Corps in the game are exactly where shown on this map.



This next map shows the German operations for the 1st 2 weeks of the campaign and you can see how XIX Corps moves across the top of the map, through East Prussia and then down towards Brest. Also XXI Corps moves east across East Prussia before coming down on top of Lomzo.



I think you might have been thinking of where they operated not where they first started.

Whew! Now my OCD can let me sleep at night....  ;)

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2018, 09:39:44 AM »
I don't know how XIX Corp got through those swamps. I never could in the game.
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2018, 10:54:41 AM »
Okay, fair point. Although I can't see that happening in DC1, especially against a competent player who wouldn't let Falkenwrath's corps just pull back and loop around to push south along Wodrig's path. Maaaaybeee the 19th Corps could loop across the Polish Gdynia salient all the way over to where Brandt's Gruppe was pushing down south (west of Grodno) to V(W)isnia (and the famous 40:1 block).

But clearly they did it in real life; and not the fault of the designer trying to balance the map by ahistorical positioning. I should make a followup episode correcting my annoyance about this.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline Barthheart

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2018, 12:00:14 PM »
Having found this, I now want to play the game using exactly these maneuvers and see if I can make it work.....

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2018, 02:07:34 PM »
I sure as heck wouldn't move the 8th Army that way against a human player; the Poznan army would have all the opportunity in the world to fall upon the logistic tail and that would be the end. I wouldn't move the 21st Corps off station for much the same reason: that's just inviting trouble from a human commander who isn't early 20th century Polish.

Looks like the 14th Army had a lot less trouble against Krakov than would be expected against a modern human player, too: sweeping right by it would be disastrous unless the human player pulled back everyone to stack in the city so that a short circumference noose could be hung around it preventing breakouts.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline Barthheart

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2018, 03:08:54 PM »
Looking at this timeline of the campaign....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_invasion_of_Poland

I don't think it's even possible against the AI... the movement rates aren't big enough...

Now I REALLY want to try it....  :D


Offline JasonPratt

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Re: DC1: Warsaw to Paris - Jason vs Barthheart
« Reply #68 on: March 21, 2018, 06:53:58 PM »
And they've improved the AI since then with routines from DC2 and DC3!  :hide:

I have to presume that the key on the northern front is to connect to the rail network through the Gdynia salient freakishly fast and then rail the 19th corps over to Brandt's Gruppe pronto. Maybe rail the 21st over to Wodrig's, too, and hope the AI is historical (dumb?) enough to just sit there with its Polish corps congratulating itself on scaring off the Nazis.

The more larger-scale wargames I play, though, the more I realize the Nazis got lucky against inept opponents early enough to have what looked like a shot at keeping Europe for themselves.

(...not that this explains my loss against you in DC3... ;) )
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.