Read this yet? Civilization - Niall Ferguson

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 01, 2012, 07:03:10 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-West-Rest-Niall-Ferguson/dp/1594203059/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349136088&sr=1-1&keywords=civilization

Any recommendations?

LongBlade · October 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM

I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.

Gusington · October 01, 2012, 08:24:32 PM

I read both Colossus and Empire by Ferguson and enjoyed both of them. Don't know if you've read anything by him before, Kev.

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 01, 2012, 09:47:47 PM

Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.

I believe you linked that to us. Yes, it was.
Are you going to get the book?

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 01, 2012, 09:49:46 PM

Quote from: Gusington on October 01, 2012, 08:24:32 PM
I read both Colossus and Empire by Ferguson and enjoyed both of them. Don't know if you've read anything by him before, Kev.

No, I've seen him on tv a few times.

eyebiter · October 01, 2012, 10:04:26 PM

The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World is another good one.

LongBlade · October 02, 2012, 08:10:50 AM

Quote from: Mr. Bigglesworth on October 01, 2012, 09:47:47 PM
Quote from: LongBlade on October 01, 2012, 08:12:47 PM
I believe I heard an hour long lecture based on it. It was awesome.

I believe you linked that to us. Yes, it was.
Are you going to get the book?

I buy so many dang books that honestly, I'd forgotten about this one until you brought it up again.

Am I going to buy it? I'm thinking no. First, I listened to the lecture from end to end and think I got the gist. Second, I have too many books to read - probably in a lifetime. And I'll buy more. Unless something comes up in the kids' social studies classes I will be unlikely to get this simply because the reference points are in my head now; I'll only get it if I need to revisit them. (Considering the topics that come up here, however, that possibility remains strong).

Windigo · October 02, 2012, 12:07:47 PM

I agree with the author's premise's. We got to the top of the heap for those reasons. He forgot one though in my opinion: social adaptability. Our societies quickly (relative term now) adapted to harness the other six. Without social adaptability we can't optimize the outcomes from the others.

IMO, thats what is the major hurdle facing the US right now.... lack of adaptability (or stagnation)

LongBlade · October 02, 2012, 02:25:23 PM

Quote from: Windigo on October 02, 2012, 12:07:47 PM
I agree with the author's premise's. We got to the top of the heap for those reasons. He forgot one though in my opinion: social adaptability. Our societies quickly (relative term now) adapted to harness the other six. Without social adaptability we can't optimize the outcomes from the others.

IMO, thats what is the major hurdle facing the US right now.... lack of adaptability (or stagnation)

I'm willing to entertain that thought, but I don't follow. What's the context of a lack of adaptability? Seems like the hallmark of our culture is a melting pot, so I'm not following you.

Windigo · October 02, 2012, 03:20:46 PM

the West developed six powerful new concepts that the Rest lacked: competition, science, the rule of law, modern medicine, consumerism, and the work ethic.

look at each of those and think of stagnation brought about by political/social stalemate.... which inhibits adaptability

consumerism is about the only one still going strong and driving the rest

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 02, 2012, 05:38:36 PM

Quote from: Windigo on October 02, 2012, 03:20:46 PM
the West developed six powerful new concepts that the Rest lacked: competition, science, the rule of law, modern medicine, consumerism, and the work ethic.

look at each of those and think of stagnation brought about by political/social stalemate.... which inhibits adaptability

consumerism is about the only one still going strong and driving the rest

It could be a matter of gaming the system on those 6 points. People have learned to milk the systems by manipulating them. They no longer achieve what they were meant for because of this. If by lack of flexibility you mean associated bureaucracy, i agree.

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 02, 2012, 05:40:22 PM

Quote from: eyebiter on October 01, 2012, 10:04:26 PM
The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World is another good one.

The video series was good.

Gusington · October 02, 2012, 06:08:53 PM

Breezy are you serious when you state that the West developed the rule of law, modern medicine, and a work ethic? Shirley you jest.

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 02, 2012, 07:38:49 PM

Quote from: Gusington on October 02, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
Breezy are you serious when you state that the West developed the rule of law, modern medicine, and a work ethic? Shirley you jest.

The 6 killer apps are Niall's point not Windy's. Of course there has been medicine as long as there have been humanoids. The point is more about modern medicine. ie Based on the treatment of pathogens. If I remember rightly there was a nurse in WWI that revolutionized the way soldiers were treated. She realized they were dying from disease, not their wounds.

Western law flows for the Magna Carta - the limitation of the King to do Whatever the F he likes. Work ethic is more about the industrial revolution's reorganization of work.

Mr. Bigglesworth · October 02, 2012, 08:00:16 PM

Something occured to me while surfing. My theory is everything flows from 1 thing - the Magna Carta. Stated another way advancement is based on the removal of the powers of coercion. A corrupt society based on coercion cannot advance. Niall's 6 killer apps are a result of the freedom of individuals.

How do you like them apples? Eat your heart out Niall. J/K