Hannibal, son of Hamilcar - A Rome II Total War Carthaginian AAR

[Martok]

Nice.  Looking forward to seeing how you dealt with them.  :) 

[undercovergeek]

are the pictures too small?

[undercovergeek]

The Battle for Carthago Novo

Lookouts rush to the north wall and Baal gate to track the movements of the enemy army

Hannibal orders the whole garrison army to run for the Baal gate as it begins to burn in the distance...........

......the Edetani have arrived at the Baal gate and begun to set fire to the sturdy doors

The fire destroys the gate just as Hannibal's army gets into position

Hannibal heads to the battlements for a better view of the Edetani composition

The Baal gate is flung open and the enemy pour through

The stout defenders hold the superior swordsmen back with their spears...................

.........but the Edetani's better training and skill begins to pay off

Using the intelligence gained from the heroic sailors and his own view of the enemy, Hannibal moves his elephant troops into position

The Edetani have made the fatal error of not bringing any spear troops to defend against mounted men. Screaming the name of the sunken naval squadron Hannibal charges his elephants into the face of the enemy

The Edetani front line are no match for the beasts

Vengeful Carthaginian spearmen fill the gaps left by the marauding elephants and take the attack to the Edetani outside the gates. Seeing the enemies backs in the open space before the city walls, Hannibal orders his elephants to stampede - the animals crush everything before them whilst the garrison stay just behind them in case of a rogue

Battered and exhausted the Edetani turn and run for their boats - none shall leave the shadow of Carthago Novo. Writing his report to Hanno, Hannibal notes that of 4000 Edetani, 3780 litter the battlefield, the remainder were lost in the forests to the North or are still swimming out to sea. He begs for permission to advance on the Edetani capital and put the remainder of the foe to the sword.

As I read this report to my Lord he is both elated and furious. His reply to Hannibal's request is to have him immediately sent back to Carthage, for what i do not know

[Martok]

Great battle, geek!  Elephants definitely seem to be war-winners when utilized properly. 

are the pictures too small?

No, I'd say they're just about right, actually.  I'd meant to comment (and compliment you) on that.  :) 

[undercovergeek]

Thanks martok.... the elephants do come in handy but can get in a spot of bother if surrounded by spears

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Not to derail the thread, but how valid do you think the points are that are raised in this video?

I haven't purchased R2TW yet.  I mainly play for the tactical battles and from what I see here and have read elsewhere, the tactical battles are a big step back for the franchise.  Do you find this to be true?

[Martok]

Personally, my two main critiques where combat is concerned is the too-fast pace (unit movement and kill speeds), and the "blobbing" effect where a battle line loses most/all cohesion once troops get into melee range. 

As I understand it, the former problem can be addressed (at least to an extent) with mods, but the latter can only be fixed by the devs. 

[undercovergeek]

Sdr - haven't had chance to watch it yet, should be tomorrow and I'll let you know

[MetalDog]

The pictures are just the right size.  I don't have to scroll to the end of the post to move the pic over so I can see all of it.  And nice save by Hannibal.

[undercovergeek]

Cool that's what I was aiming for - more later

[undercovergeek]

I clattered into the Imperial throne room, my arms full of brushes, quills, and pots of ink and colours - my Lord Hanno had requested me to record the meeting with Hannibal. So preoccupied with not dropping anything and detangling myself from the curtain that was drawn across the doorway into the room I did not notice the two men there. One was a bear of a man, far taller and wider than any man should be, he stood there with his arms folded, arms criss-crossed with pale battle scars, a look of disdain on his face as he surveyed this clerk stumbling about. The man's legend preceeded him, Krastus, Hannibal's captain and head of the General's bodyguard. He said nothing, simply allowed his scornful gaze to follow me around the room as i placed the pots and brushes at my desk, a permanent frown upon on his face. And there next to him, almost as tall but nowhere near as large, General Hannibal, a kinder face but no less intimidating for it, he seemed to have fared better than Krastus in his battles and was much less scarred. Both of them looked hewn from stone, stood with easy confidence, waiting for Hanno. The heralds announced his imminent arrival and both Krastus and Hannibal went down on one knee, their right arm crossed over their breast, their fist clenched. I bent to my knee as Hanno entered the room, wafting his hand and dismissing a number of scribes and advisers crowding round him.

A curt nod in my direction let me know to be seated and commence taking notes.

'To the Great Hanno, I must with all haste pursue our enemy to the mountains and rid this land of the Edetani once and for all?' recited my Lord from memory. 'Maker of war policy are we now great General? Shepherd of my armies and guiding light to our countrymen?'

'Lord, I only thought..........' interrupted Hannibal. Hanno raised his hand slowly,

'There will be no thinking Hannibal Barca of Gades, son of Hamilcar. I can arrange for you to tend sheep on the hillsides if you wish, or maybe you'd like to chat to Rasfer, that most deplorable of Carthage's servants, down there in the torture chambers.'

I glanced up at the creaking of leather as Krastus clenched his fists at the very mention of Hannibal's presence in the dungeon. Were it not for my Lord's hard of hearing, he would definitely be on the way there now.

'You forget 'Dido's Faithful' belong to me General. Do you understand?'

'Yes sire' conceded Hannibal.

'You are not here to be punished General, nor admonished, you are here because i require great things from you. A task so large I would entrust it to noone but my most beloved General.' Hanno nodded to Hannibal, 'Please, arise, and your great ape you have there'.

Krastus and Hannibal stood up and towered above my frail Lord, Krastus able to snap him like a dry stick.

'The Edetani were left no option to attack, they had promised to defend their allies as we had ours, only their allies and brothers have more sense and infinitely more dignity than ours. Those idiots in the North brought trouble on themselves and almost lost us our greatest city beyond Carthage. As I speak Syracruse sharpen their spears against us, Rome has eyes on our lands, thankfully slowed by a war with our friends the Etruscans, and all the tribes of Iberia wish to march against us. All this, ALL THIS, brought about by those fools in the North, and now, even worse, our brothers in the South, Libya, stir the same problems with those damned Egyptians.'

Hanno closed his eyes and gripped his cane to bring his temper under control,

'Brother or no brother Hannibal, son of Hamilcar, I will not stand idle while these petty nations nibble at our dignity and greatness like a pack of mangy hyenas around a noble Lion'. He turned to look at Hannibal, 'I send you to Libya, and to Libya's lands General, from Thapsus in the north to Macomades in the south'

'What would you have me do my Lord?'

'Wipe them from the face of the world my son'

[JasonPratt]

I've had gruntlements about the blobbing and speed ever since Rome1, too, although I've wondered how much of the blobbing is due to a lack of doctrinal training on the part of various armies (and so, is it historical, and if so intentional or an annoying but accurate side effect of the engine)? Put another way, were formations in Shogun and Medieval 1 too neat?

The speed is just as bothersome but more tweakable by various methods.

This reminds me, I think UGeek said so earlier, but I've forgotten: are you playing with any mods on, U? (I'll be curious about your reflections on the video, too. Rome2 and its DLC was the last thing I bought last year, and I figure it'll be modded up to snuff eventually one way or another, but I bought it partly because it seems like it may be worth playing already...)

[undercovergeek]

I've had gruntlements about the blobbing and speed ever since Rome1, too, although I've wondered how much of the blobbing is due to a lack of doctrinal training on the part of various armies (and so, is it historical, and if so intentional or an annoying but accurate side effect of the engine)? Put another way, were formations in Shogun and Medieval 1 too neat?

The speed is just as bothersome but more tweakable by various methods.

This reminds me, I think UGeek said so earlier, but I've forgotten: are you playing with any mods on, U? (I'll be curious about your reflections on the video, too. Rome2 and its DLC was the last thing I bought last year, and I figure it'll be modded up to snuff eventually one way or another, but I bought it partly because it seems like it may be worth playing already...)

Blobbing - i wasnt there, and im sure most of us weren't (maybe Bob), but when i order 160 men with swords it means i want 160 men with swords to start attacking the unit ive clicked on, if this means a clamour among the 160 to get into combat then fine, id rather see a blob of 160 men desperate to find a way to fight the enemy than the old problem of having just your front line attacking whilst the next 6 rows of your men stand there holding their spears watching the fight over the shoulder of those in front. For me personally blobbings a non issue - i dont consider it a problem

Im using the Radious total war mod that does everything i need, there are others that do similar but its much of a muchness and does me fine

The video i had to stop at 12:33 - i couldnt take any more - the guy has decided he is not going to like anything and then make a 35 minute video explaining to everyone else why he doesnt like it. Like all of us, im sure we have a certain way of playing a game, the angle, the way we set up our armies, the way we attack, the way we view the battle - im a big supporter of diversity and a game that can cater to that - oddly, the way this guy plays the game bears no resemblance whatsoever to the way i play mine, and i have no sympathy with him because he wants the game to do it exactly his way, it doesnt - hence 35 minute video complaining - it is the visual equivalent of the whining bitches on totalwar.com pissing and moaning because the game doesnt do what they think it should. Dont like the new feature of the strategic map? fine, dont use it, dont spend 3 minutes highlighting why you dont like it expecting me to agree with you.

I dont like the UI a lot either, id rather see a unit flag that says 129/160 men instead of a green power bar, but you know what, i want to play the game, ill live with the progress bar, i get 5 more hours fun out of the game, while he spends 5 hours making a video squeaking like a little girl that the power bar is ruining his life.

In short, im either apathetic, and am willing to see the good behind the bad, the diamond amongst all the coal, or hes right and i should write a strongly worded letter to CA and complain that they didnt make the game exactly how this guy wanted it to be. In the words of the oft complained about admin at Battlefront - if you want the game to do that and think you can make one, go write it son, see how you get on

[JasonPratt]

Oh, it isn't just 30 minutes, he has a part 2. And it lasts ONE HOUR EIGHTEEN MINUTES! And another half minute. Yeesh:

Blobbing, I think I see the guy's point on this, there's too much penetration between groups, probably because the groups assign man-to-man fights and then warp them into place to do cool sync-kills (after some dice roll). (He admits this worked well-enough in Empire after the bugs were hashed out for the Nappy followup, because hand-to-hand wasn't a big factor there.) On the other hand, his complaints about optimization would be nothing if they had tried to go back to the old pre-Empire system where each soldier was a more-or-less autonomous unit who fought whoever was around him, which was more realistic. So I understand the tradeoff from a programming perspective.

I think his comments about the zoom-out strategy map (called "tactical map" by the devs from what he said) were more along the lines of it could have been more useful and instead seemed like a gimmick. Do you use the strategy battle map when fighting?

The power-bar replacing the unit counter probably wouldn't have bothered him so much if it hadn't been on top of the art change, which looks "cool" in a period-appropriate way but to his eyes was too stylish and too similar to easily distinguish one kind of unit from another, plus the rotating status symbols at one second intervals. I guess that hasn't bothered you any?


One thing I haven't heard from him yet (having finished the first video) is how this really compares to Shogun 2 which he called the best of the series and had high praise for. The only two direct comparisons he's made are that the graphics aren't quite as good (and he calls out CA for faking a lot of pre-release footage), and the man-on-man sync-kill issue was also a problem in Shogun.

oddly, the way this guy plays the game bears no resemblance whatsoever to the way i play mine, and i have no sympathy with him because he wants the game to do it exactly his way, it doesnt

It seems like then there's a way to play the game which the presentation and UI doesn't support well (his way) and a way to play which works better (yours). I wondered while watching if giving orders while paused would circumvent a lot of his complaints, even though that isn't immersive. Is that how you play?

You may not have gotten far enough, but he does spend a minute or so saying that while he doesn't like the unit-speed issue he does understand why CA did it and thinks it ought to be in the vanilla game, though also thinks modders shouldn't have to set that up for CA, it ought to be an option for some people out of the box. But he seemed okay with it being something only available to modders, too. (Then he went back to his vulgar screeding. ;) But he wasn't utterly pissing on CA, he was fair to their design choices at one point even though he preferred the modded versions.)

[undercovergeek]

It seems like then there's a way to play the game which the presentation and UI doesn't support well (his way) and a way to play which works better (yours). I wondered while watching if giving orders while paused would circumvent a lot of his complaints, even though that isn't immersive. Is that how you play?

It is indeed, probably no pausing at all until the forces are about to physically crash in to each other, then (i have to admit this, but thats how i like it) some micro managing of each group, their stance, their job, their position and then running for maybe 1 minute and pausing again to see how everyone is getting on!