...in Mogadishu.
Quote
A Somali police officer says a suicide bomber has detonated an explosives-laden vehicle at the gate of a Mogadishu hotel, followed by gunmen who are fighting their way inside.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/huge-explosion-outside-hotel-in-somali-capital-police-say0.html
Quote from: steve58 on June 25, 2016, 09:39:49 AM
...in Mogadishu.
Quote
A Somali police officer says a suicide bomber has detonated an explosives-laden vehicle at the gate of a Mogadishu hotel, followed by gunmen who are fighting their way inside.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/huge-explosion-outside-hotel-in-somali-capital-police-say0.html
Sadly you hear something similar at least once a week on TV. I'm hoping we'll hear the next atrocity will be from a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, or Salvation Army terror group just to break the pattern of Islamist terror for a change... ;) I don't think it will though, do you?
Sadly, this can easily be an ongoing thread :-\
Steelie beat me to it.
...and today its the international airport in Istanbul (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/28/at-least-10-dead-dozens-more-injured-in-double-suicide-bombing-at-istanbul-airport.html?intcmp=hpbt1).
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 25, 2016, 12:06:39 PM
Sadly, this can easily be an ongoing thread :-\
Sad indeed :(
These attacks are getting sadly predictable.
You can tell we're becoming atrocity hardened.
No one so far expressed any specific regret for the victims, their families etc. I don't say that as a judgement, anyway I'm just as guilty, but its just an observation that we get desensitised to the regularity of these events. That is really sad, but maybe inevitable. :(
And today a 13 y/o girl who was sleeping in her bed was brutally stabbed to death in the name of Islam by a 17 y/o Palestinian terrorist in Israel...
F*cked up world.
Poor child. Her parents must be devastated. :( What did she ever do to anyone?
Being born American and Jewish is apparently enough for some.... people? Or is there another name for them?
'Scumbags.'
That's an insult to scum and bags everywhere.
Today's attack is at a restaurant in Dhaka, Bangladesh. At least 20 foreigners have been taken hostage by 9 terrorists.
We've also had another one with deaths here.
Then again, I'd bet we can beat anyone else (especially if you include all the daily terrorist attacks that get foiled). :-[
This is a horrible thread. :( I suppose it's "good" we know what the scale of things is, but it really is horrible.
its almost time to have something like this Live Earthquake Map for Islam induced terror events from small like a single stabbing attempt stopped cold by security nearby to mayor catastrophic magnitude incidents like Paris
considering that all the 'Green' on 'Green' (Sunni vs Shiite) and also 'Palestinians'-activities vs Israel can be sorted in too (even so the later are nowadays seen more as poor political by the media), there are lots of dots popping up in the timeline and on that global map ...
here is the live-earthquake-map and list as the design template:
http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
Standoff is over.
QuoteIslamist militants killed 20 people, including at least nine Italians, inside an upmarket restaurant in Bangladesh's capital, before security forces stormed the building and ended a 12-hour standoff on Saturday.
(Not sure if the article is behind a paywall.)
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/news/story/0002/20160702/KCN0ZH5HE_23
Most of the slain people were killed with "sharp weapons" according to police, although the perps were also certainly "gunmen". 13 hostages rescued, but only three were foreigners; originally police thought only foreigners were killed but now it seems the terrorists killed at least a few locals, too. 2 police also died in the first stages of the assault to free the hostages.
ISIS is taking credit for it.
ISIS taking credit for a lot if not all attacks in this thread. If they really are connected to all of them I wonder if they are lashing out as they are being destroyed...
Quote from: Boggit on June 25, 2016, 10:59:07 AM
Quote from: steve58 on June 25, 2016, 09:39:49 AM
...in Mogadishu.
Quote
A Somali police officer says a suicide bomber has detonated an explosives-laden vehicle at the gate of a Mogadishu hotel, followed by gunmen who are fighting their way inside.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/huge-explosion-outside-hotel-in-somali-capital-police-say0.html
Sadly you hear something similar at least once a week on TV. I'm hoping we'll hear the next atrocity will be from a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, or Salvation Army terror group just to break the pattern of Islamist terror for a change... ;) I don't think it will though, do you?
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
Quote from: Wes on July 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: Boggit on June 25, 2016, 10:59:07 AM
Quote from: steve58 on June 25, 2016, 09:39:49 AM
...in Mogadishu.
Quote
A Somali police officer says a suicide bomber has detonated an explosives-laden vehicle at the gate of a Mogadishu hotel, followed by gunmen who are fighting their way inside.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/25/huge-explosion-outside-hotel-in-somali-capital-police-say0.html
Sadly you hear something similar at least once a week on TV. I'm hoping we'll hear the next atrocity will be from a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Jain, or Salvation Army terror group just to break the pattern of Islamist terror for a change... ;) I don't think it will though, do you?
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
It just goes to show about tempting fate when you aren't serious. I'll be careful not to be so flippant such things in the future. :-[ I certainly did not want that to actually happen. :(
Quote from: Wes on July 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
not a terrorist group action
... just a group of local villager protect their turf from muslim -unsentive as always- claiming new ground by
(secretly?) building a makeshift mosque in a let's say in wargamers terms "zone of control" of a residuing pagoda
That is asking for trouble. (and attack was against an empty building - not murdering people)
Quote from: MikeGER on July 02, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: Wes on July 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
not a terrorist group action
... just a group of local villager protect their turf from muslim -unsentive as always- claiming new ground by
(secretly?) building a makeshift mosque in a let's say in wargamers terms "zone of control" of a residuing pagoda
That is asking for trouble. (and attack was against an empty building - not murdering people)
Buddhist villagers, man. I'm Buddhist. We don't burn buildings or attack police. When it's to the point of any violence then it gets scary...remember when Zen Buddhists were violent...the Samurai...not a good thing...
Quote from: MikeGER on July 02, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: Wes on July 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
not a terrorist group action
... just a group of local villager protect their turf from muslim -unsentive as always- claiming new ground by
(secretly?) building a makeshift mosque in a let's say in wargamers terms "zone of control" of a residuing pagoda
That is asking for trouble. (and attack was against an empty building - not murdering people)
Ahh. OK. I should read more than the just the headline... :-[
I also saw a docu a while back that suggests that the backlash against the Rohingya Muslims is a lot to do with the Buddhist reaction to Muslim men attacking and raping a Buddhist Burmese girl. Apparently it flared up after that.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 02, 2016, 02:05:37 AM
its almost time to have something like this Live Earthquake Map for Islam induced terror events from small like a single stabbing attempt stopped cold by security nearby to mayor catastrophic magnitude incidents like Paris
considering that all the 'Green' on 'Green' (Sunni vs Shiite) and also 'Palestinians'-activities vs Israel can be sorted in too (even so the later are nowadays seen more as poor political by the media), there are lots of dots popping up in the timeline and on that global map ...
here is the live-earthquake-map and list as the design template:
http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/
Well, just poking about the internetz a bit I came across this, which kinda goes with what you were suggesting: How Many People Have Been Killed in ISIS Attacks Around the World (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/03/25/world/map-isis-attacks-around-the-world.html).
However, being that it is the New York Times, not sure that I completely trust the info...but its a start. It certainly needs to be expanded to include all attacks by any Muslim(s), rather than just ISIS.
For the whole show this is four of the ones I use:
http://www.warsintheworld.com/
(or go directly to:
http://www.warsintheworld.com/?page=static1258254223 )
http://www.cfr.org/global/global-conflict-tracker/p32137?_escaped_fragment_=/#!/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/
http://www.conflictmap.org/
Quote from: MikeGER on July 02, 2016, 12:43:09 PM
Quote from: Wes on July 02, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Well, looks like you got your wish Boggit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36693714
not a terrorist group action
... just a group of local villager protect their turf from muslim -unsentive as always- claiming new ground by
(secretly?) building a makeshift mosque in a let's say in wargamers terms "zone of control" of a residuing pagoda
That is asking for trouble. (and attack was against an empty building - not murdering people)
This may have been encouraged by a some radical buddhist monk though.
Wes can clarify but I thought Buddhists were absolutely peaceful all of the time, always, no matter the circumstance.
I take it then that you've never heard of Kwai Chang Caine.
No.
Ah, Grasshopper.................you have so much to learn.
Clearly.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068093/
Quote from: Gusington on July 02, 2016, 08:41:34 PM
Wes can clarify but I thought Buddhists were absolutely peaceful all of the time, always, no matter the circumstance.
This could be why you always lose at Shogun 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negoro-gumi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negoro-gumi)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamabushi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamabushi)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence)
You may be on to something...
...Saudi Arabia now.
Quote from: jomni on July 05, 2016, 12:02:53 AM
...Saudi Arabia now.
actually that is IMHO 'blue on blue' or Islamic flags dark Green on darker Green.
SaudiArabia and their Wahhabism religious interpretation spread from overthere since the West was so stupid to make
a camel driving nomad tribe stuck in medieval mindset super rich is the root of the global situation we have to face now.
the only difference between SaudiArabia (some other Gulf states too) and IS is that they are decades established now as super-rich 'businessmen' and control (aka blackmail) lots of the oil-flow and so are able to spread their medieval Islamofascism with carefull bribing instead of terror.... well some of their countrymen was that not
Islamic enuf, and to slow, and they saw their religious case already 'getting polluted' by the West and so those Saudis break from the Kingdom's way to a much more aggressive stand.
On top of that is the ongoing religious (cold)war between Sunni and Shiite faction(s) since they could not negotiate the best Calif ruler to follow-up in the Prophets larger than life footsteps in the year 632.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 05, 2016, 04:55:54 AM
Quote from: jomni on July 05, 2016, 12:02:53 AM
...Saudi Arabia now.
actually that is IMHO 'blue on blue' or Islamic flags dark Green on darker Green.
SaudiArabia and their Wahhabism religious interpretation spread from overthere since the West was so stupid to make a camel driving nomad tribe stuck in medieval mindset super rich is the root of the global situation we have to face now.
the only difference between SaudiArabia (some other Gulf states too) and IS is that they are decades established now as super-rich 'businessmen' and control (aka blackmail) lots of the oil-flow and so are able to spread their medieval Islamofascism with carefull bribing instead of terror.... well some of their county man was that not Islamic enuf, and to slow, and they saw their religious case already 'gerring polluted' by the West and so those Saudis break from the Kingdom's way to a much more aggressive stand.
On top of that is the ongoing religious (cold)war between Sunni and Shiite faction(s) since they could not negotiate the best Calif ruler to follow-up in the Prophets larger then life footsteps in the year 632.
Definitely as Mike says.
I'm sorry that once again innocent people have got killed. :(
The only thing that will be good about this is if the backers of islamofascism suddenly realise that the terror they export can be visited on them too. Maybe they will start learning from that?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3674161/Multiple-suicide-blasts-hit-Saudi-Arabia.html
I'd like to think they're going to learn sympathy from other Muslims doing it to them, but past experience suggests they won't.
On a more... strategic?... note: I can't personally recall any Islamic terror group going this hard, or going much at all, during Ramadan. I can't say I was surprised (though saddened) to hear that they had struck one of the two holy pilgrimages (or they had gotten some dupes to do so). Can't help but wonder if Mecca and maybe the Dome at Jerusalem are on the list for later, or maybe fizzled already.
:( :-\
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/14/truck-crashes-into-crowd-at-bastille-day-celebrations-in-nice2/
That's terrible.
Damn.
Just...damn. :(
Seeing a report that there are perhaps 60 dead.
:'(
At least 60 dead now and near 100 injured (per Euronews).
Driver shot dead; might be an escaped accomplice.
(Of course technically there has been no word about ethnicity yet or anything like that, but the mode is common for both Al-Qaeda and ISIS. If it isn't one of them, it's a copycat. Now there's a new way things could get worse... )
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 14, 2016, 05:46:28 PM
:'(
At least 60 dead now and near 100 injured (per Euronews).
How awful... the French are taking a real beating lately. They have my deepest sympathies. :(
I'm going to sit here and swear for awhile, I think.
>:(
Hearing death toll over 70 now.
Also reports that the drive got out with a gun and started shooting into crowd.
^That's what I just saw on CNN. There's new footage of several people chasing after the truck before it gets going, apparently trying to stop it. Disgusting, cowardly attack.
Sounds like four French police fired into the truck while it was still going down the street and stopped it. Seeing pictures on TV of the truck and looks like 20+ bullets hit the windshield.
I'm hearing reports on news outlets saying bullets started being shot out of the van, too, as it got started. Explosives inside as well, although they weren't used. Could have been much worse.
So tired of this happening over and over. Seriously, if we could gather all these fanatics in one place, I'd push the button myself to drop a nuke on their heads.
We're at war. Politcally, someone needs to nut up and acknowledge that.
Both Trump and Hillary were on O'Reilly's show tonight and both said we were at war and both used the term, "Islamic Fanatics" though neither was too generous in their details as to how they plan to wage such a war. Even Geraldo was all fired-up and ready fight somebody. If we get hit again here in the US during the election season, it may really be a new day in America.
84 dead this morning and 120 injured
one egyptian guy filmed it all including the drivers death but i think the pilice took his phone - i personally would have beat him with it, he said on radio this morning that they kept telling him to run but he kept filming, to think one police guy could have been killed getting this guy to move makes me more as mad as the attack
i was going to ask why the US isnt more of a target for these things but realise you guys just had the nightclub in florida
saw this gruesome political cartoon on Twitter but it vanished very fast (guess censored) ...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2eztkdf.jpg&hash=8568014c887b52ca295c4edc34c56b9bba139b6a)
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 15, 2016, 04:40:15 AM
i was going to ask why the US isnt more of a target for these things but realise you guys just had the nightclub in florida
My Dad, a retired truck driver, always said that after 9/11 and the use of planes, trucks (large, cargo carrying types) would probably be used for the next big event as they are exceedingly common any and everywhere you go.
France is going to go buck-ass-wild on some people once they get a good target to go for and I can't blame them in the least.
I saw on the news today that Trump would go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war. (Not sure if Hillz said she would, but I don't think so)
And Nicole Wallace got it right: "Declaring war feels right on a gut level"
But the follow-up that's missing is key: against who?
A state of war only exists between nation-states and only ends when one side surrenders.
Who is the nation-state with whom our state of will exist? ISIS/ISIL/Daesh? Great, you've just legitimized them on the world stage by elevating them from "terror group" to "nation-state".
Who is going to sign the surrender document ending the state of war? Do you really, seriously think there's *anyone* in ISIS/ISIL/Daesh that's going to sign one?
The fact that we might choose to fight it as a war, using an authorization of military force on our end for Congress to give the President permission to deploy the troops for an extended period that covers the necessary legal bases under US law, will bring the requisite amount of violence desired to kill the sonofabitches that need killing.
But don't legitimize an illegitimate regime by treating them as a diplomatic equal.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2016, 06:10:36 AM
I saw on the news today that Trump would go to Congress and ask for a declaration of war. (Not sure if Hillz said she would, but I don't think so)
And Nicole Wallace got it right: "Declaring war feels right on a gut level"
But the follow-up that's missing is key: against who?
A state of war only exists between nation-states and only ends when one side surrenders.
Who is the nation-state with whom our state of will exist? ISIS/ISIL/Daesh? Great, you've just legitimized them on the world stage by elevating them from "terror group" to "nation-state".
Who is going to sign the surrender document ending the state of war? Do you really, seriously think there's *anyone* in ISIS/ISIL/Daesh that's going to sign one?
The fact that we might choose to fight it as a war, using an authorization of military force on our end for Congress to give the President permission to deploy the troops for an extended period that covers the necessary legal bases under US law, will bring the requisite amount of violence desired to kill the sonofabitches that need killing.
But don't legitimize an illegitimate regime by treating them as a diplomatic equal.
+1
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 05:06:34 AM
saw this gruesome political cartoon on Twitter but it vanished very fast (guess censored) ...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F2eztkdf.jpg&hash=8568014c887b52ca295c4edc34c56b9bba139b6a)
Seems like a caricature the Israeli right-wingers would make.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2016, 06:10:36 AM
But the follow-up that's missing is key: against who?
the answer to that is so highly not political correct that even Trump cant pull that one
Muslim immigration kills!
maybe not always in the first then from a later generation born into the society, or when younglings (see Boston) came with the immigrants.
the terrorist was born in France by Tunesian parents and hold both citizenship.
passive smoking gets fought and is forbitten because there is a very slim statistical chance that some bystander may catch some aggressive molecule drifting in the cloud of all the other bazillion molecule in the smoke and the bystander may after decades develop cancer-diseases and dies. smoking in public gets outlawed more and more.
while being passive exposed to
traditional Islam in a society is allowed, even so here also only a small part of the members are actual in a detectable aggressive stand, but may self-radicalize and loose it one day with a statistical probability.
Well, there is no problem with a guy just
being a Muslim and practicing his belief mostly as private affair in the same totally laid-back and mostly unnoticeable way like other religion followers do their things in a relaxed westernized way.
but when traditional gear wearing including headscarfs (the 'swastika brassard' of tradional Islam), diet enforcing on other people, demands on bystanders, and such things show up. its time to interact.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 07:00:01 AMits time to interact.
You can act all you want
But the act you take matters
A declaration of war exists between nation-states
What nation-state do you want to go to war with, and why?
Quote from: Tpek on July 15, 2016, 06:41:39 AM
Seems like a caricature the Israeli right-wingers would make.
actually its a copy cat of a cartoon probably drawn after Palestinian attacks with a car
(I found the same cartoon with just a car and the same drivers picture)
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2016, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 07:00:01 AMits time to interact.
You can act all you want
But the act you take matters
A declaration of war exists between nation-states
What nation-state do you want to go to war with, and why?
i meant its time to
interact on the "home front"
You are right, there will be no 'nation state' to be found who is responsible and to declare a traditional war on like in the 19th century
...but there are a lot of citizens from all kind of 'nation-states' and 'kingdoms' that are founding and facilitating the cause.
so you might have to take out a yacht with its "businessmen" owner in a harbor of some gulfstate, or let a sniper team take out some person on a golf course, or when stepping out of a/his falcon clinic... who finance terror ideology, IS, and other groups, as a princely hobby.
I wonder with a declaration of war, what effect that would have here in the US with surveillance, detentions, raiding without warrants, etc.
Quote from: OJsDad on July 15, 2016, 07:31:54 AM
I wonder with a declaration of war, what effect that would have here in the US with surveillance, detentions, raiding without warrants, etc.
we're already doing it now! ::)
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 07:00:01 AM
Muslim immigration kills!
From 2001 through 2013 the US has accepted about 1.5 million muslim immigrants.
About how many attacks, of any type including assaults, fist fights or food fights, have occurred here by them? My guess is no more than most other ethnic or religious groups.
You'd be wrong Marty. Since 9-11, dozens of planned attacks have been prevented and all by Muslim fanatics. It's not Hindu or Buddist terrorists that are plotting to kill us with our own vehicles.
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2016, 07:41:37 AM
Quote from: OJsDad on July 15, 2016, 07:31:54 AM
I wonder with a declaration of war, what effect that would have here in the US with surveillance, detentions, raiding without warrants, etc.
we're already doing it now! ::)
No where near what we've done in the past during official states of war. We could see FBI agents opening going into mosques and observing what's going on and detaining any that they felt were threats, jailing, with no do process, IT execs for refusing to hand over encryption codes or other demanded knowledge. We could see the mass roundup of segments of the population that are deemed terrorists. By whose definition. Would someone speaking out against BLM be considered a terrorist by some Presidents.
It can get a lot worse.
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 15, 2016, 08:34:34 AM
You'd be wrong Marty. Since 9-11, dozens of planned attacks have been prevented and all by Muslim fanatics. It's not Hindu or Buddist terrorists that are plotting to kill us with our own vehicles.
So dozens out of 1.5 million people? If muslims immigrants wanted to kill us you would think there would be more attempts.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there aren't some crazy MF radical Islamists who want to kill us and we should do all we can (short of becoming a police state) to find them but to make such a general statement like muslim immigration kills! is just plain wrong. It doesn't any more sense than saying guns kill people.
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 15, 2016, 08:38:16 AM
So dozens out of 1.5 million people? If Muslims immigrants wanted to kill us you would think there would be more attempts.
so how many non-smoking people have been killed by the milions and millions carton of cigarettes smoked from 2011 to 2013 ?
so how many people have been killed by packed-food items that all had to get called back to the producers warehouse and then been destroyed in precaution because of the one single package that had been reported by a consumer who had found a small sharp plastic particle in it?
Why taking avoidable risks in one case (immigration) and not in all the others (consumer health, safety or products, you name it) ?
How many foul (and spreading foulness to more fruits) apples in the Muslin box is ok to still be alowed to sale the box?
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 15, 2016, 08:38:16 AM
So dozens out of 1.5 million people? If Muslims immigrants wanted to kill us you would think there would be more attempts.
so how many non-smoking people have been killed by the milions and millions carton of cigarettes smoked from 2011 to 2013 ?
so how many people have been killed by packed-food items that all had to get called back to the producers warehouse and then been destroyed in precaution because of the one single package that had been reported by a consumer who had found a small sharp plastic particle in it?
Why taking avoidable risks in one case (immigration) and not in all the others (consumer health, safety or products, you name it) ?
How many foul (and spreading foulness to more fruits) apples in the Muslin box is ok to still be alowed to sale the box?
You seem to think there should be some guarantee.
Using your food example there have been millions of recalls for them and there will be millions more in the future. How can that be if we can't have avoidable risks?
Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 15, 2016, 07:01:50 AM
Quote from: MikeGER on July 15, 2016, 07:00:01 AMits time to interact.
You can act all you want
But the act you take matters
A declaration of war exists between nation-states
What nation-state do you want to go to war with, and why?
I'm not looking for a declaration of war in the legal sense of state-on-state, but we need to wake up to the fact that we are at war with zealots who want to undermine and destroy the United States and Western Civilization. Having our own president pussy foot around the matter or steadfastly refuse to utter the words 'radical Islam' does not serve the nation well.
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 15, 2016, 08:45:32 AM
to make such a general statement like muslim immigration kills! is just plain wrong.
Have you been following recent events in Europe? Forex, there were approximately 1200 reported molestations and/or rapes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/) of German women by Muslim immigrants last New Years Eve alone. In
ONE night.
Rape isn't murder, but it's bad enough.
Quote from: mirth on July 15, 2016, 10:02:32 PMI'm not looking for a declaration of war in the legal sense of state-on-state, but we need to wake up to the fact that we are at war with zealots who want to undermine and destroy the United States and Western Civilization. Having our own president pussy foot around the matter or steadfastly refuse to utter the words 'radical Islam' does not serve the nation well.
But Donald Trump stated publicly that he would ask for a declaration of war from Congress. He's the one we're talking about, and the original point I was trying to make:
Against who?
When is it over?
What have you just granted the other guys by doing so?
I thought Obama's closing Gitmo was supposed to cure all this. ::)
Quote from: Ubercat on July 16, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 15, 2016, 08:45:32 AM
to make such a general statement like muslim immigration kills! is just plain wrong.
Have you been following recent events in Europe? Forex, there were approximately 1200 reported molestations and/or rapes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/) of German women by Muslim immigrants last New Years Eve alone. In ONE night.
Rape isn't murder, but it's bad enough.
The problem is that we see mass terrorism, and non-muslim abuse constantly coming from a "muslim" background. It identifies "Muslims" as the enemy of western civilisation and values. Let's be accurate, it isn't the majority of Muslims who are doing these things, but a minority, albeit one that is becoming a significant minority. These are the cancer that no sane person can say can be allowed to continue.
Unfortunately, as with real world cancer it spreads to healthy tissue, so there is the dilemma, as with real world cancer that the solution - chemotherapy/radiotherapy - will kill healthy cells as well as the cancerous ones. So the question is how do you address it before it becomes open war between Muslims and non-Muslims, which is something IS and Al Quaeda have been angling at for years. To do nothing but react to attacks might maintain the status quo, but you'll see a continuation of terror attacks because you cannot stop them all.
The other alternative is to stare into the abyss, to risk moving away from the rule of law for the pretext of the 'preservation' of western civilisation. This is the risky bit, as once unleashed it will be hard to recreate a normality. It is to attack back, targeting terrorists, and all who are connected with them. It is about capturing, debriefing, then killing terrorists to inspire terror on them. To hunt down their backers, and kill them. To hunt down their families and those they hold dear, and deport them to places they can do no further harm. By creating a climate of fear and persecution you can fight back on the basis of counter terror to those who would terrorise you.
It could get far more brutal than I suggest depending on the response to it. A policy of extermination of terrorists and their backers, and persecution of all who associate with them might work in the short term. It certainly did with those who opposed the Chinese Emperors of old who pursued rebellion the same way. Of course, it didn't stop rebellion in China, although the even more brutal rule of Ghenghis Khan did. I can see how that approach might offer a solution to Islamic terrorism, but I fear that to go down such a path leads us to a place we will find hard to return from. In killing off, and terrorising the terrorists there will be many, many times more innocent people die and suffer. It is not a good choice to have to make.
I fear that particular cure will not only kill the cancer, but the patient too. And what will have happened to the physician? The terrible truth is with growing numbers of Muslims in traditionally non-Muslim countries, and with attacks on non-Muslims continuing it is increasingly now becoming an issue of long term survival for non-Muslims. A Polish friend of mine recently commented that he thinks the next Holocaust in Europe will be the Muslims, brought on by Muslim terror attacks. I think we are far closer to the abyss of counter-terror than ever before, and I'm saddened by it for all the innocent people who will get hurt. I hope there is another way, whereby the Muslim communities actively work with non-Muslim communities to stamp down hard on the terrorist Jihadis, which may be disliked by Muslim communities but is better than the alternative. Sadly, even though this is being tried, it isn't working very well. :(
A lot of anger in France towards President Hollande not being more robust...
I've just been sent this from Sauron who received this facebook link going viral in France... I've put a Klingon English translation (as I'm feeling lazy) of the transcript below the original, so you can gauge the strength of feeling this time around. It's a powerful statement rendered in poetic style.
Quote
Francois Gierszal CE TEXTE N EST PAS DE MOI MAIS D UNE FEMME SUR FACEBOOK ..TELLEMENT CRIANT DE VERITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 h ·
Je ne mettrai ni drapeau, ni bougie, ni de "Je suis ..."
Je ne suis pas Nice, pas Charlie, pas Paris, pas Toulouse, pas Bagdad, Jerusalem ou Tel Aviv, pas Boston ou Tunis,
je ne suis pas plus du 11 septembre que d'un autre jour en particulier ...
Je suis tout ça ..
Je suis en colère ..
Je suis triste ...
Je suis maman, je suis famille
Je suis citoyenne
Et j'ai la nausée ...
Alors M. Le Président ... ?
Après les Discours du tout va mieux,
les marches main dans la main,
les "Moi je" ... ,
les "j'ai décidé ... "
Vous agissez quand ?
Vous attendez quoi ?
Un autre carnage ?
Vous ouvrirez une ( autre et énième ) cellule de Crise,
reprendrez l'antenne en direct
et aurez ce même ton compatissant à vomir
qu'on ne connait que trop ( en même temps depuis Charlie vous avez eu l'occasion de le travailler ! )
Et on finira par un joli sondage des service com. de l'Elysée : 2% ( ou 40 % on s'en fout ) des Français pensent que Hollande a su gérer l'après massacre !!!
Et vous (re-) penserez à vos primaires,
Votre trône, gérer votre coiffeur, votre maîtresse,
votre petit confort et gros acquis ...
votre retraite assurée et votre avenir tracé ...
Vous avez dit ( il fallait oser quand même ... ) être entré dans l'histoire ...
Ah oui ... ça ... C'est sur ...
Dans d'autres circonstances ... ça me ferait mourir de rire !
J'ai juste honte pour vous ... et tellement de colère !
Vous vous êtes entendu hier ?
J'ai décidé - sur proposition du 1er ministre - ( heureusement qu'il a eu cette bonne idée ) ...
J'ai décidé - blablabla
J'ai décidé ... blablabla ...
6 minutes de discours soporifique improbable, déplacé ( la description de l'attaque est juste à vomir ), ... mou et écrit !!!
Comment parler - en lisant ou en récitant - d'arsenal législatif et autres foutaises inutiles !
Ahhh ? vous allez rajouter des militaires devant le Printemps à Haussmann et ailleurs pour ... ? comment la nommez-vous déjà cette opération ?
... Super !!
et sinon ?
trains, bateaux, des contrôles prévus ???
... manif, émeutes, ... quelque chose ?
... les fichés S perdus de vue ?
... Les services de renseignements qui ne se connaissent pas entre eux ?
... le GIGN qui attend qu'on l'autorise ?
... Les autres S qu'on connait ?
... Ceux en devenir ? ...
... un truc de prévu malgré les vacances ?
Vous êtes ( vraiment et comme toujours )à coté de la plaque :
Quand votre pays attend un discours qui sort de vos tripes et de votre coeur, clair, concis, comme un bon coup de poing sur la table, en disant que c'est assez et que vous allez les trouver dans les plus petits recoins de l'hexagone et que vous allez nous en débarrasser ...
Vous nous parlez de frappes ailleurs et de sentinelles ici ... de mesurettes ...
avec le texte et le ton d'un élève de CM2 qui lit sa rédac en essayant d'y mettre le ton !!!
Tout sonne faux ... parce que tout est faux
Vous vous en fichez ... en fait ...
Sinon il n'y aurait déjà pas eu Charlie après Toulouse, Pas le Bataclan,
... et pas hier ...
C'est votre Rôle ce discours ... mais pas votre vie ...
Mettez donc sur votre bureau la photo d'un de ces gamins partis hier
et regardez la jusqu'à la fin de vos jours en vous disant
que vous auriez pu l'éviter ...
On espère juste que demain il n'y aura rien d'autre ...
Mais votre propension à ne rien faire, à préférer les mots mielleux aux actions, m'inspire plus la crainte que la confiance
Comment se fait il que ce matin, il n'y ait pas eu de descente pour aller chercher ces prêcheurs de la mort qui retournent le cerveau de notre jeunesse désoeuvrée ...
Celle-la même que vous laissez grandir dans la haine et en attisant le rejet et les clivages !
On sait qui ...
On sait où ...
Pourquoi restez vous sans rien faire en France ?
... Bombarder les lieux stratégiques de Daesh en Syrie ou Al Kaida ... ailleurs
C'est sur notre sol que des enfants meurent ...
Hier soir, en regardant les étoiles et les jolis feux multicolores,
Ils étaient athées, boudhistes, catholiques, juifs, musulmans, protestants ...
ils avaient l'avenir devant eux
C'était des enfants de France
et vous n'avez pas su les protéger !!!
Assassinés par des kamikazes décérébrés
que vous pensez pouvoir effrayer en leur retirant la nationalité ?
On est en guerre,
Et l'ennemi est partout sur notre territoire !
Alors, en tant que citoyenne Française,
Je vous demande , avec tout le respect que je dois,
si ce n'est pas à l'homme, au moins à la Fonction ...
de passer vraiment à l'action - demain pas dans 6 mois
de nous débarrasser de cette vermine
d'empêcher qu'il y en ait d'autre ...
de faire votre devoir de Chef de la Nation et de Guerre
ou de quitter ce poste !
Et, Il serait dés lors tout à votre honneur d'en profiter pour rendre votre Grand-croix de l'ordre national de la Légion d'honneur, réservée normalement à ceux ayant rendu des «mé
Francois Gierszal THIS TEXT IS NOT ME, BUT A WOMAN SHOUTING ON FACEBOOK ...SO MUCH TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23 h ·
I will not hold a flag nor candle, nor be "I am ..."
I'm not Nice, not Charlie, not Paris, not Toulouse, not Baghdad, Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, not Boston or Tunis,
I am no more the 11 September as another day in particular ...
I'm all that ..
I'm mad ..
I'm sad ...
I am a mother, I am family
I am a citizen
And I'm nauseous ...
So Mr. President ...?
After the Speech everything is better,
the labor markets in the hand,
the "Me I '...
the "I decided ..."
When you act?
You waiting for?
Another carnage?
You can open a (new and umpteenth) Crisis Staff,
resume the live aerial
and have that same tone sympathetic to vomit
we know only too (along with Charlie since you have had the opportunity to work!)
And eventually a pretty boring com service. Elysee: 2% (or 40% who cares) of the French think that Holland has managed after the killing !!!
And you (re-) think of your primary,
Your throne, manage your hairdresser, your mistress,
your comfort zone and acquired big ...
your insured retirement and your future path ...
You said (he was daring still ...) be entered into history ...
Oh ... that ... It's about ...
In other circumstances ... it would make me die of laughter!
I'm just ashamed for you ... and so much anger!
You have heard yesterday?
I decided - on the proposal of Minister 1 - (fortunately he got this good idea) ...
I decided - blah
I decided ... blah ...
6 minutes improbable soporific speeches moved (the description of the attack is just sick) ... soft and writing !!!
How to speak - by reading or reciting - legislative arsenal and other useless crap!
Ahhh? you add military before the Printemps Haussmann and elsewhere ...? how do you name already this operation?
... Great !!
and otherwise ?
trains, boats, planned controls ???
... Demonstration, riots ... something?
... Stuck the S-outs?
... The intelligence services who do not know each other?
... The GIGN waiting to be authorized?
... Other S we know?
... Those in the making? ...
... Despite a planned vacation thing?
You are (really and as always) next to the plate:
When your country is expecting a speech that comes out of your guts and your heart, clear, concise, like a good punch on the table, saying that enough is enough and you'll find them in the smallest corners of hexagon and you'll get rid ...
You talk about strikes elsewhere and sentinels of scoops ... here ...
with the text and the tone of a pupil of CM2 that reads its editorial trying to put there the tone !!!
Everything sounds wrong ... because everything is false
You do not care ... in fact ...
Otherwise there would have been no Charlie after Toulouse, Not the Bataclan,
... Not today ...
It is your role this speech ... but not your life ...
So put on your desktop a picture of one of those kids left yesterday
and watch for the rest of your life by saying
you could have avoided ...
We just hope that tomorrow there will be nothing else ...
But your propensity to do nothing, to prefer honeyed words to actions, inspires me fear that trust
How is it that this morning there was no descent to get these preachers of death returning brains of our young, idle underclass ...
It the same as you let grow in hatred and stoking rejection and divisions!
We know that ...
We know where ...
Why you stay without doing anything in France?
... Bombing strategic places Daesh Al Kaida in Syria or elsewhere ...
It's on our soil that children die ...
Last night watching the stars and the pretty colored lights,
They were atheists, Buddhists, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Protestants ...
they had the future ahead of them
It was the children of France
and you have not been able to protect them !!!
Murdered by suicide bombers brainless
you think you can scare by removing their nationality?
We are at war,
And the enemy is everywhere in our territory!
So, as a French citizen,
I ask you, with all due respect,
if not to man, at least the function ...
to really take action - not in six months tomorrow
to get rid of this vermin
prevent there to be other ...
do your duty of Chief of the Nation and War
or leave this post!
And it would die at all to your credit to take advantage of to make your Grand Cross of the National Order of the Legion of honor, normally reserved for those who have rendered "mé
And another - shorter one, again with a translation below the original. The mood of tolerance following Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, the murder of a policeman in front of his children, and the beheading of an employer by a disgruntled Islamist employee seems finished in France for ordinary citizens. I get a huge sense of anger now. I think the political élite will have to wake up now, and be seen to take action.
Quote
Flore Dancy
Les mesures à prendre sont connues:
Rétablir la cour de sûreté de l'état
Créer des camps de rétention pour les fichés S
Fermeture de toutes les mosquées salafistes et expulsion de leurs imams
Interdiction des prêches en langue étrangère.
Rétablissement de la peine de mort
Suppression de toute allocation et aides diverses aux familles des criminels.
Supprimer le Droit du sol.
Arrêt immédiat de l'immigration.
Rétablissement du contrôle aux frontières
Un gouvernement qui ne peut pas assurer ses trois missions essentielles à savoir 1) la sécurité des personnes et des biens 2) l'intégrité du territoire 3) la souveraineté nationale doit PARTIR. Et si la République est incapable de produire des gouvernements capables de le faire, elle doit CREVER.
Flora Dancy
The steps to take are known:
Restoring the state security court
Creating detention camps for indexed cards S (Salafists?)
Close all Salafi mosques and expelling their imams
Ban foreign language sermons.
Restoration of the death penalty
Remove any allowance and other assistance to the families of criminals.
Remove the soil right.
immediate halt to immigration.
border control recovery
A government that cannot secure its three main missions namely 1) the safety of persons and property 2) territorial integrity 3) national sovereignty, it must GO. And if the Republic is unable to produce a government capable of doing this, it must DIE.
Dont worry, the politicians are using harsh languages so all will be fine.
Oh and ofcourse all the usual blanket statements:
We are all french now.
Terrorist will never succeed.
no one could foreseen this happening.
Its just an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam.
And tomorrow they will forget all about it until next time they have to make the same empty speeches. And yet they dont understand why the far right is growing in Europe.
Quote from: jejo68 on July 16, 2016, 12:25:21 PM
Dont worry, the politicians are using harsh languages so all will be fine.
Oh and ofcourse all the usual blanket statements:
We are all french now.
Terrorist will never succeed.
no one could foreseen this happening.
Its just an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam.
And tomorrow they will forget all about it until next time they have to make the same empty speeches. And yet they dont understand why the far right is growing in Europe.
Exactly. They are not listening...
Although sometimes it is worrying that they are listening to little green men from another planet... This one of Jean-Claude Juncker is worth a laugh, but look at the straight faces of his cronies beside him... http://www.bvoltaire.fr/videos/jean-claude-juncker-a-petits-hommes-verts,265505 :2funny:
And yet there is hope from Muslims who want reform, but run the risk of being accused heretics (Bid'aa)... maybe there is a less bloody way to peace?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/please-stop-staying-the-nice-attacks-arent-about-islam/
Quote from: Ubercat on July 16, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Have you been following recent events in Europe? Forex, there were approximately 1200 reported molestations and/or rapes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/) of German women by Muslim immigrants last New Years Eve alone. In ONE night.
Rape isn't murder, but it's bad enough.
And how many of those 1200 were actually confirmed as having happened?
Quote from: Boggit on July 16, 2016, 12:10:53 PM
A government that cannot secure its three main missions namely 1) the safety of persons and property 2) territorial integrity 3) national sovereignty, it must GO. And if the Republic is unable to produce a government capable of doing this, it must DIE.
Ah, the famed French political stability. How many republics are they up to now? Four, five?
A bit of rummaging around and they can come up with a Bonaparte and resurrect the empire. Or maybe the Spanish can loan them a spare cousin or something and they can plant a Bourbon on the throne.
In Wurzburg, Germany, axe-wielding Afghan man (17 yo) injures more than twenty people during an attack on a train going through the city; shot dead by police. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36827725
(Edited; sorry, bad link.)
BBC updates that 14 people are being treated for shock, not for external injuries; their update suggests the original 20-21 number includes these.
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 17, 2016, 06:04:31 PM
Quote from: Ubercat on July 16, 2016, 06:14:10 AM
Have you been following recent events in Europe? Forex, there were approximately 1200 reported molestations and/or rapes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/) of German women by Muslim immigrants last New Years Eve alone. In ONE night.
Rape isn't murder, but it's bad enough.
And how many of those 1200 were actually confirmed as having happened?
My bad. Islamic culture isn't misogynistic nor has it any violent trends. It's the religion of peace and anyone who reads the Quran can see that Muhammad was a pretty great guy. I guess I just let myself be lulled by a few racists into thinking there was some kind of problem. The hordes of 20 something young Muslim men that have immigrated to Europe in recent years have the utmost respect for European women and have no problem with the fact that they don't walk around in burlap sacks.
I was also wrong in assuming that the young Moroccan man that I once worked with (in a pizza shop) who despised western women and thought that they were whores who all deserved to be raped was anything more than an anomaly. I foolishly wondered if his attitude was common where he came from. I should have remembered that all cultures are equally valuable and good.
[/sarcasm] How many rapes have to be
confirmed* for you to think that there's a problem? 1100? 1000? 800? I'm curious. What figure would impress you?
* What do you mean by "confirmed"? Are you waiting for convictions? From police with someone like Angela Merkel in charge of the country?
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 18, 2016, 07:16:35 PM
In Wurzburg, Germany, axe-wielding Afghan man (17 yo) injures more than twenty people during an attack on a train going through the city; shot dead by police. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36827725
(Edited; sorry, bad link.)
BBC updates that 14 people are being treated for shock, not for external injuries; their update suggests the original 20-21 number includes these.
"Allahu Akbar" shouted ...and a handdrawn IS flag was meanwhile found in his room!
17 year unguided "refugee kid" from Stan living with a foster family since 2 weeks in lovely Bavaria after had spending some month in a refugee hostel in Würzburg before since March
and the Green Party topdog politician Renate Künast reaction on Twitter at 12:30 am "...why was it not possible to shot the attacker unfit
? ? ? Questions
! " Go figure!
btw: the man was shot when he assaulted a SWAT team with his weapons (axe and knife) which was operating nearby in the general area on a different case and got redirected to respond to the terror attack
the main victims were a tourist family from HongKong :(
I had seen some reports of the Allahu Akbar shout, but at the time I wondered if they were misreading the BBC article which included a reference to it during prior attacks. I think the BBC article may have been updated since last night; but I was close to passing out so I may have missed the report of the "exclamation" the first time.
Going back to the Orlando Pulse shooting:
"The FBI has found no evidence so far that Omar Mateen, who killed 49 people and wounded more than 53 at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, chose the popular establishment because of its gay clientele, U.S. law enforcement officials said." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-evidence-so-far-to-suggest-orlando-shooter-targeted-club-because-it-was-gay/2016/07/14/a7528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html)
To be more specific, there is evidence, but they've decided the evidence has no weight, being unconfirmable.
This seems unrealistically improbable, that a (relatively) educated man capable of using technology would have randomly chosen a site for attack, and this one JUST HAPPENED to be crawling with people that especially deserve the death penalty in his religion.
On the other hand, blorch at the owner positioning the nightclub as a "sacred space" thanks to the attack. ::) :P
Shouldn't any place where so many innocent people died be a 'Sacred Space'?
Quote from: Ubercat on July 18, 2016, 09:46:55 PM
My bad. Islamic culture isn't misogynistic nor has it any violent trends.
You're right, they are horrible people and should be quarantined from the rest of humanity. Any idea where we can stash 1 billion people?
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 19, 2016, 07:15:31 AM
Quote from: Ubercat on July 18, 2016, 09:46:55 PM
My bad. Islamic culture isn't misogynistic nor has it any violent trends.
You're right, they are horrible people and should be quarantined from the rest of humanity. Any idea where we can stash 1 billion people?
That's all you have to say? Really?
Here's a link to what I hope you would consider a somewhat unbiased source. Germany toughens rape law after Cologne mob assaults (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-toughens-rape-law-after-cologne-mob-assaults/ar-BBu299z). The article isn't as specific as the last one I linked but does state
"
Chancellor Angela Merkel's cabinet signed off on the measures in March after the attacks in Cologne, where more than 1,000 women reported sexual assaults and robberies on New Year's Eve. These were blamed largely on Arab and North African men".
There are even some pics of Germans protesting the rapes and other sexual assaults. "Sexual harassment against women will NOT be tolerated." Evil racist Germans. They always want to bring back Hitler. ::)
I'll ask again. In your opinion, how many "
confirmations" would there have to be before anyone should acknowledge a problem? I'll go further. If there's a problem (Is there
any circumstance in which you would admit that there is one?) what solution would you suggest? "There's a billion Muslims so just let them rape and blow people up."?
No, I'm not advocating concentration camps and genocide. People should at least search for solutions, though. Do you have any ideas, other than just taking potshots at anyone who brings the subject up?
Quote from: Ubercat on July 19, 2016, 09:03:34 AM
That's all you have to say? Really?
I'm agreeing with you. Do I need to say more?
Keep them away from our countries as the kill and destroy society. Isn't that what you want?
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 19, 2016, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Ubercat on July 19, 2016, 09:03:34 AM
That's all you have to say? Really?
I'm agreeing with you.
Isn't that what you want?
if you agree shouldnt that be what WE want?
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 19, 2016, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: Ubercat on July 19, 2016, 09:03:34 AM
That's all you have to say? Really?
I'm agreeing with you. Do I need to say more?
No, I don't think you do agree. And yes, I'd like very much to hear you say more. You clearly have no answer, but have an issue with anyone trying to find one. That's fascinating to me.
QuoteKeep them away from our countries as the kill and destroy society. Isn't that what you want?
If they're going to "immigrate" to western countries and then turn around and abuse their generous hosts for not being like them, then yes, quotas should probably be curtailed sharply (We can
stash them where they already were). BTW, quotas DO already exist as individual countries only accept so many in a given span of time. I'm not just making up some racist concept. The alternative to quotas is completely open borders. Take them all in and let the chips fall wherever.
So, what's your take Marty? Anything constructive to say?
Quote from: Ubercat on July 19, 2016, 09:44:56 AM
No, I don't think you do agree. And yes, I'd like very much to hear you say more. You clearly have no answer, but have an issue with anyone trying to find one. That's fascinating to me.
QuoteKeep them away from our countries as the kill and destroy society. Isn't that what you want?
If they're going to "immigrate" to western countries and then turn around and abuse their generous hosts for not being like them, then yes, quotas should probably be curtailed sharply (We can stash them where they already were). BTW, quotas DO already exist as individual countries only accept so many in a given span of time. I'm not just making up some racist concept. The alternative to quotas is completely open borders. Take them all in and let the chips fall wherever.
So, what's your take Marty? Anything constructive to say?
My take is saying something like muslims kill, which was the only thing I commented on, is stupid.
I don't have a problem with limiting, or even temporarily stopping them from coming in, immigrants from certain countries.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 19, 2016, 06:38:19 AM
Shouldn't any place where so many innocent people died be a 'Sacred Space'?
I expect she's going to market that as being a sacred space for other purposes. But I'm fuzzy on places where people have died, innocent or not, being
thereby sacred. The sacredness should depend on who the people were and their intentions and why they died.
Still, it's a common human feeling to make shrines of a vague but palpable sacredness where people died who shouldn't have. The problem may be my lack of empathy generally. :-[
meanwhile in Germany
while the media still try to downplay it as an 'amok' run, and questioning the deadly police force, and repeating and reapting he was only 17.
information popping up:
the IS video you see in the media is authentic, its actually him!
his Pashtun dialect is uncommon for Stan and is better fitting to Pakistan.... so "refugee" lied about his origin to get refugee-status granted.
if he was really 17 is now up to the forensic specialists.
the uneasy truths for the political correctness people and Merkel's refugees-welcome cheering crowd is now:
either he was a sleeper from the entry and this has gone totally unnoticed.
or he self-radicalized very slowly on the inside and this has gone unnoticed.
or even so the fellow had everything a young refugee could dream of, a foster family, trained with the local sports team, and about to start an apprenticeship to become a baker ... he selfradicalized in just a few days (after he learned from the death of a close friend in Stan a week ago) , digital enlisted in the IS, uploaded his manifesto to them, and went on his mission.
...and it looks atm like the later.
that would be the original precedent that any very calm and seems to be easy going on religion Muslim immigrant around you who you have granted to let into the country, who is rated friendly and mental stable by his surroundings, peers and caretaker today can transfrom into a monster in a week, if just the right pin gets pulled in his head by some event and some fitting propaganda.
Geez. Shit is going to get mighty damn tense in the EU before it gets any better (by my pessimistic guess).
Stay safe EU grogs.
Quote from: MikeGER on July 19, 2016, 03:46:30 PM
that would be the original precedent that any very calm and seems to be easy going on religion Muslim immigrant around you who you have granted to let into the country, who is rated friendly and mental stable by his surroundings, peers and caretaker today can transfrom into a monster in a week, if just the right pin gets pulled in his head by some event and some fitting propaganda.
First off, let me express my disgust for what this young man did, and my concern and best wishes for those that were harmed. Regardless of his age or how he ended up on mass transit with an ax and a knife, I can't see how the police really had any choice aside from using deadly force.
Having said that, it makes no more sense to blame all Muslims for terrorism than it makes sense to accuse all Catholic priests of being pedophiles. Or, for that matter to accuse all Catholics of encouraging pedophilia since they show deference to the Church, and the Church obviously recruits, employs, shelters and covers up for pedophiles. Or that all Serbs during the Balkan Wars were genocidal. Or that all Irish Protestants were murderers because some Orange Order thugs killed their Catholic neighbors during the Troubles. Or that all whites hate blacks because of police shootings in the US, or that all blacks hate whites because of the cop killings in the past couple of months.
Taking that stance is intellectually lazy at best. At worst, well, I think we all know what it is, and I think we know what it leads to. It sure as hell isn't solving any problems.
BUT...it's equally irrational to be willing to accept anything, any behavior, any transgression of your cultural norms and beliefs, any inability to compromise or learn to fit into a host society, in the name of some vaguely defined "tolerance." It's absurd to accept a flood of guest workers and refugees into your country and then try and settle them into neighborhoods already under serious economic stress and not acknowledge that this isn't going to be good for your own citizens - regardless of how bad the conditions are in the immigrant's country of origin. It is patently obvious to anyone that spends a minute thinking about it that not every part of every culture is good. Any culture that engages in things like honor killings or female circumcision or sees women as chattel has some serious problems and is
incompatible with a Western society if those values are maintained.
It's ludicrous to to ask your own people to run some risk of being injured or killed in terror attacks by people who come from cultures that don't share your values and beliefs and are crazy enough to do something horrible but can't be separated from the much larger group of people who wouldn't because you don't want to take the time to put the controls in place. Just letting anyone into your country as a means of avoiding a repeat of the past or "atoning for your sins" just isn't going to turn out well.
If we want to reduce and hopefully stop this nonsense, we have to get past the idea that the only way to avoid a repeat of the horrors of the 20th Century is to be universally tolerant and that unconstrained diversity is an unalloyed good, no matter what. We have to stop the sort of woolly-headed Western guilt thinking that says America and Europe are responsible for all that is bad in the world, and we have to "make up for that." There are precious few nations or cultures that haven't contributed to the evils of the world, and any culture or nation-state large and powerful enough to be a force for great good is also going to have done things that weren't so great. People are flawed. Get over it.
The danger, however, is the sort of sloppy, biased thinking that leads to all out nationalism, populist leaders, political violence, and anti-intellectualism becomes dominant and we're right back to where we were. Deciding entire that populations, ethnic groups, political affiliations, or religions are "the enemy" always ends in a bad place. We
know here in the West that this is a bad thing to do. We have a thousand years of religious wars and pogroms and persecution that proves it. We can be smart enough to not do it all again without needing to be doormats.
It turns out this stuff is hard. It isn't easy to decide that there needs to be a marked slow down or even stop to accepting refugees from places like Syria and Iraq for awhile when you know that doing so is going to cause suffering and death. Because it will. Doing that is going to mean that some helpless person, some little kid who never hurt anyone in their lives is going to go hungry, or be enslaved or be killed. Conversely, not doing it increases the chances of dead kids laying crushed under the wheels of a truck in Nice on Bastille Day. It's not an acceptable trade off.
No person or group of people or even government can be responsible for everyone. We can be responsible to those in our own families and communities and nations. We can have empathy for those in other places far away that are suffering. But it's not rational to make decisions, either individually or nationally that result in serious negatives for the people you are charged with responsibility to just to satisfy some ideology. It's also not rational to decide that an entire religion made up of a billion people are all terrorists.
This entire situation took hundreds of years to get this way. It is not going to be simple or easy to resolve. If anyone understands that, it should be people who frequent this forum. We are the ones that have actually taken the time to study the history, the ones that know how we got here. We know, or at least have studied, what happens when things get out of control and when people who let their emotions and bigotry rule end up in power - regardless of which end of the political spectrum they hail from.
If anyplace should be a refuge of intelligent discussion about this issue then it should be here. I'm not suggesting that the members of this forum are the ones that are going to solve this issue. I do think that the members of this forum can be a part of a voice of reason that helps a more sophisticated conversation about this issue emerge than we are getting out of our pundits and political leaders.
do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?
im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased
I don't think I once suggested reasoned discussion with anyone outside of one's own country and culture. My appeal isn't one of multiculturalism. Sadly, you apparently completely skipped over the parts where I clearly stated that the current situation in Europe is unacceptable and unworkable, and that those who call for unrestrained immigration and acceptance of refugees are wrong. You skipped the bit where I specifically said that no government should decide to allow wholesale immigration from places where there are obvious cultural incompatibilities.
So, the reasoned discussion isn't about how the West just keeps on doing what it's doing, it's about how we manage to stay a civilized, rational group of countries that avoids going back down the ultra-nationalist rat hole, while taking a rational approach to helping out around the world when we can afford to. I'd suggest it's in no one's interest to decide on the easy solution of just deciding that a billion people of any religion or ethnic group are all bad people.
I suspect as long as we in the west harbour fantasies of reasoned discussion with the extremists in their society and they teach their children to kill us at all costs we'll always be the side wringing our hands and crying round candles at random spots across Europe
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 19, 2016, 05:50:43 PM
do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?
im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased
+1.
I share the same view. If it were my family in the frame, I'd want vengeance. The problem when it's someone else is that we are distanced from the problem and less passionate. The regular attacks on civilians means that the well of tolerance is drying up. I want to see Muslims being seen to oppose those who "act in their name". Mere words are not enough any more.
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 19, 2016, 06:26:04 PM
I suspect as long as we in the west harbour fantasies of reasoned discussion with the extremists in their society and they teach their children to kill us at all costs we'll always be the side wringing our hands and crying round candles at random spots across Europe
From what I saw from the stuff Sauron sent me after Nice, I think that time is past. The French are incredibly angry will Hollande and Valls, and I think they feel pushed to the point when next time it happens in France you'll start seeing counter terror starting on the communities that breed the scum who do this. I wonder just what will happen should this occur?
The sad thing is that at the Nice atrocity - Muslims, as well as non-Muslims - were killed by the IS terrorist, so is it fair if counter terror be unleashed on a community which is hurt by Islamist terror also? A lot of innocent people who are not connected might get hurt, so justifiably radicalising them in the interest of self preservation. It's what IS wants, and I fear they'll get their way with a bloody result for all if its allowed to fester. :(
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 19, 2016, 06:26:04 PM
I suspect as long as we in the west harbour fantasies of reasoned discussion with the extremists in their society and they teach their children to kill us at all costs we'll always be the side wringing our hands and crying round candles at random spots across Europe
And I suspect if we don't have reasoned discussions with the non-extremists on how to deal with extremism within their culture we will always be at war with 'those' people', whoever they may be.
No one is born an extremist and we can't identify who will become one but one thing is certain, there will always be some who are extremists regardless of what we do. I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 20, 2016, 09:05:49 AM
I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.
based on what records of success from the past?
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 20, 2016, 09:25:02 AM
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 20, 2016, 09:05:49 AM
I would say that discussions will play some role in reducing the number of them.
based on what records of success from the past?
Seems to me that Israel was somehow able to make peace with Egypt. They are somewhat friendly with Jordan. East Pakistan is no longer at war like odds with India. Do you need more examples?
You have me at a disadvantage - I'm unsure in any of your examples where representatives of the extremist cause were actively targeting innocents and children - those appear to be nation states at war
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 20, 2016, 11:42:43 AM
You have me at a disadvantage - I'm unsure in any of your examples where representatives of the extremist cause were actively targeting innocents and children - those appear to be nation states at war
You mean nations that go to war with each other, particularly when the goal is extermination of one of the participants, s are not examples of extreme behavior? Nations that threaten to wipe out the other side are examples of moderate or rational behavior?
At some point there needs to be discussions with the non-extremists in the places where extremists are created/found. It is pretty much as simple as that. You can't kill an idea and you can't kill'em all.
There are reports of a shooting at mall in Munich, Germany.
Munich under attack ... no real good sitreps yet, ... several attackers at different (or at least two) spot synchronized or one team shooting while on the run ...soft target a shopping mall hit, several dead people reported, but not confirmed.
a bystanders video just surfaced
Just saw it come across the news here, Mike. More insanity.
Quote from: Boggit on July 19, 2016, 10:39:01 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 19, 2016, 05:50:43 PM
do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?
im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased
+1.
I share the same view. If it were my family in the frame, I'd want vengeance. The problem when it's someone else is that we are distanced from the problem and less passionate. The regular attacks on civilians means that the well of tolerance is drying up. I want to see Muslims being seen to oppose those who "act in their name". Mere words are not enough any more.
.
on Munich
when i analyse what's available in the news about the situation, including some phone interviews of witnesses done by media ... the way its was done, it doesn't sound all to typical islamistic, and there is no "snackbar"-shouting, no symbols, no deathwish in final confrontion with the reaction forces ... it is still possible, even more likely atm, that it is a single or two man rightwing nutjob show with emphasis on nutjob or a one (up to three) band of Columbine-"we are sick of this world that all hated us"-maniacs...
one phone witness spoke about a SantaClaus costume in use in side the mall (Go Figure! ...like Postal or such) , later a guy showed up in front of the McD, later a guy on the open top floor of a conncted parking structure, ...and taking long distance potshots from there (single hand, no stance, no training visible, more like a gangster in a movie casual scaring of some people) on undiscriminated pedestrian's moving in the farer distance ... could all be the same person seen by different witnesses, in the different places...
(also its the 5 year aniversery of the right wing amok attack in Norway)
Quote from: mirth on July 22, 2016, 12:41:33 PM
Just saw it come across the news here, Mike. More insanity.
Horrible. 8 fatalities, not to mention wounded people. :'(
The media and police are at pains to suggest it is not Islamist violence, hinting at extreme right wing violence. It doesn't make sense that the extreme right would randomly target people though. They refer to the Anders Breivik case five years ago today as justification, but I think that is unlikely as Breivik's victims were targeted being a group of left wing youth group summer camp, who opposed his political ideals. Here the attacks appear random. If the perps in this case were extreme right then you'd expect them to target on race/political lines. The Breivik suggestion is IMHO a red herring. The MO doesn't make sense.
I suspect that the media and German police are acting in denial as to the usual suspects for this type of atrocity. It reminds me of the initial denial by the police and media after the New Years Eve Koln attacks. I suspect that after a catalogue of "migrant" attacks both sexual and homicidal, this is a weak attempt to calm public reaction to Merkel's
"inspired" ::) open door immigration
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35261988
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-crime-munich-idUSKCN1021YZ
If I was betting I'd go with Islamic terrorism.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on July 22, 2016, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: Boggit on July 19, 2016, 10:39:01 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 19, 2016, 05:50:43 PM
do you not think the foundations for reasoned discussion are eroded with every axe attack on a train, every child underneath the wheels of a lorry, every wife and mother groped and abused whilst out shopping?
im in the UK, my daughter is safe my parents are safe but im not sure how id feel about reasoned discussion and intelligent progress if i get the knock on the door explaining another muslim with an agenda has decided its my families turn to be in the news - theres a lot of anger everywhere, and like Ubercat said, its easy to poke fun at those demanding extreme justice, but what does anyone else suggest - because multiculturism is so far down the toilet its not going to be about sitting around a table discussing who everyone can be appeased
+1.
I share the same view. If it were my family in the frame, I'd want vengeance. The problem when it's someone else is that we are distanced from the problem and less passionate. The regular attacks on civilians means that the well of tolerance is drying up. I want to see Muslims being seen to oppose those who "act in their name". Mere words are not enough any more.
.
But at least some are trying... http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=17275.msg458155#msg458155
Sadly, Maajid Nawaz has had death threats from the Muslim community for trying to encourage reform and challenge excessive conservatism.
Quote from: Marty Ward on July 22, 2016, 03:44:43 PM
If I was betting I'd go with Islamic terrorism.
and a longer version http://www.bild.de/video/clip/terroranschlag/taeter-parkhausdach-46954208.bild.html with a zoom-in at the end on the shooter
if this is the same guy like in the video from the McD .... its a German (born) mad man ...he has a back and for hollering duel with some angry Bavarian living in the house on a different story then the video is shot from ... and the guy is bitching: he was in stationary (I guess psychiatric) treatment, and had to get himself a gun, ...
I guess it's possible, although three attackers are mentioned in the reports. Maybe it isn't an Islamist attack, nor extreme right, but just a psychiatric case as you suggest. Of course there might not be three attackers either, as witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
My sympathies to the victims, regardless of what reason this outrage was perpetrated upon them.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 22, 2016, 06:00:01 PM
My sympathies to the victims, regardless of what reason this outrage was perpetrated upon them.
+1000000000000
It turns out there is just one gunman. An 18 year old dual nationality German Iranian, who had been living in Munich for several years. There is a report of the 'Allahu Akbar' cry before he apparently shot himself, however motives are still unclear. Mrs Merkel is holding a security committee meeting tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see what is the official position.
Odd. I don't associate Iranians with the kind of internet-radicalized murder we've seen lately. They seem more likely to act at the behest of their government, either as mobs, militia irregulars, or assassins.
Of course, at 18 years old all it takes is some poison-hearted imam and Daesh videos to confuse the kid's self-identity and fire him up.
so a "German-Iranian" ...if that species exits?
let's see how the ratio-mix of "Columbine" and "religion" it was in the end
(and what we Germans will actually get told by our Merkel media! so i rather read foreign news too
...and i am sure all the other horror news in the past days and weeks psychological 'triggered' the meltdown... to act now, and get his 15min of fame too, to send his 'message' to the world)
the conclusion is
the dream of left-green mongered Multiculturalism that may work in councils full of high paid artist, IT-crowds, media people, and univerity professors doesn't work in social-wellfare depending living quarters full with all kind of different immigrants and their offspring, who flog together of course with their own brand and battling it out who is bullying the local smaller minorities (including those remaining poor Germans who have no choice then to also living there, but also lost single Iranians) best.
There is no info out about his religious affiliation (Shiiti, Sunni, Christ?, Apple or Android, vamipres or werewolfs) yet
the attacker yelled about being bullied and local Turks and in general the other brands of Oriental immigrants (those which usualy get tagged with the German offensive term of 'Kanacken' he used also while shouting)
showing my ignorance here, i didnt realise the full name of Merkels party was the Christian Democratic Union
for no other reason than being pissed off with political correctness in the media i would stake my years salary on the fact that you couldnt even have a party called that in the UK Mike, it would be torn down as soon as you put a poster up
Quote from: undercovergeek on July 23, 2016, 04:47:32 AM
showing my ignorance here, i didn't realise the full name of Merkels party was the Christian Democratic Union
for no other reason than being pissed off with political correctness in the media i would stake my years salary on the fact that you couldn't even have a party called that in the UK Mike, it would be torn down as soon as you put a poster up
geek , yes they can still name that party (because its historical) that way in our
dictator ship of political correctnessbut i would doubt you would see this name if founded today
but we cant get the facts from the Merkel friendly media told straight anymore:
the gunman "Ali Sonboly" mutated into a "David S." in our news at Spiegel or ID is not told at all.
both parents migrated from Iran in the 90ies (i guess as refugees) and the son had problems at school, got bullied (by other immigrants kids)
...now our media just played the "Counter Strike"- bad-FPS - gun-nerd card ... yeah, its the FPS-gaming not the Turkish bullies that mad him loose it.
(there are rumors in British news that he used a fake FB-account as a Turk teen girl to lure probably Turk kids into the McD with 'free
candy burgers' to get a more preferred target rich environment for his killing spree plan ... it seemed to be was focused on killing especially young people, the oldest victim is a 46 old women)
It's starting to sound like Columbine would indeed be a closer analogy to Munich than Brussels, Nice, or Paris.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 23, 2016, 05:43:03 AM
It's starting to sound like Columbine would indeed be a closer analogy to Munich than Brussels, Nice, or Paris.
this and the colour is just coincidence
61 dead and 200 hurt in Kabul double suicide bombing.
the Steam nickname of that Munich guy is "Amoklauf"
...you may like to check it while its still there.... the comments posted to his profile atm are 'a world of its own' :o
newsflash
in Reutlingen/Germany a "man" (found in not German Merkel friendly media: its a 21j old asylum seeker! from Syria) just killed a women and injured several others with a machete going on rampage near a busstop and snack outlet
arrested by the police after hit by a car ... see pic
Damn, not again!
The stupidity wisdom of Mrs Merkel's open door immigration policy. :idiot2: I'm glad we voted for Brexit for that reason as well now if it means fewer attacks on our people. Meanwhile Germany has to work out who - exactly - they have invited into Germany... ???
and the beat goes on !
Ansbach / Germany
inner city, a heay explosion infront of a pub near the entry area to a music festival nearby ... 1 dead, 10 injured
first news were about a gas-leak explosion but is now shifting to a bomb
(first rumors surfaced about witness reoprt a person with a ruck who got denied entry to the festival with about 2000 people ... but thats just a rumor atm)
:(
Quote from: MikeGER on July 24, 2016, 06:12:18 PM
(first rumors surfaced about witness reoprt a person with a ruck who got denied entry to the festival with about 2000 people ... but thats just a rumor atm)
Confirmed
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ansbach-bombing-syrian-asylum-seeker-blows-himself-up-injuring-12-outside-german-music-festival-a3303346.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ansbach-bombing-syrian-asylum-seeker-blows-himself-up-injuring-12-outside-german-music-festival-a3303346.html)
I hope Merkel sleeps well at night
its an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam
No one could see it coming
And your all rascist for thinking otherwise.
I could be policitian
Shooting at a Florida club again, this time a teen swimsuit party; happened early this morning (Monday) just after midnight local time as the club was closing.
Notably, the club had armed guards, which might explain why the perpetrator waited until closing time to ambush outside the club. :-\
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/us/fort-myers-nightclub-shooting/index.html?sr=fbCNN072516fort-myers-nightclub-shooting0855AMStoryLink&linkId=26897744
Nothing yet in the news this morning over motives or even ethnicity in the shooting.
I know Ft. Myers very well, I used to work down there-- about 45 miles from my house. Almost certainly Gang-Related and or Drug-Related as both are very prevalent there. OLD PERSON ALERT-- Thirthy years ago, the city was a joy to shop and visit in but the last 10 years maybe it's all gone down hill. Shootings occur daily and there are places where the Police usually stay away unless in an emergency situation and in large numbers. It's a College Town so there's always been a rowdy element and drugs but now the areas of gang involvement have spread all across the city. My Son-In-Law's a Probation Officer so I hear the stories. Maybe 2 years ago there was a drive-by shooting at the big mall there-- something unthinkable in my days of X-mas shopping and computer game checking-out there.
In the last year there was a drive-by that killed a 5 year old boy in his home. The police caught the perps but because no one would testify against them, they went free.
Some of the other older cities around have done an excellent job of keeping their downtown sections clean, safe and revitalized. But Ft. Myers isn't one of them.
Officials seem to agree, no evidence the Ft. Meyers shooting was meant to be a terrorist act.
and the beat goes on !
France
Two armed men (knifes) have taken hostages at a church near Rouen in northern France
A priest and two sisters, as well as churchgoers, were among those held
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36892785
...first rumors on Twitter the french SWAT just neutralized them.
but the priest didn't made it (got slaughtered)
Any speculation as to the "why," in the seeming increase in number of attacks lately? I'd wager copy-cat and keeping the sensationalism going, but this is strictly armchair psychology from a guy in the U.S.
Links to good reading on this subject is always a boon if possible.
Again; stay safe EU Grogs.
Dammit Carl!
when i take all the other crazy (non Islam) singular events that now happen daily all around the globe (different shootings in the USA, yesterday Japan: a crazy man assaulted a nursing home, killed 19) also into account.
(and consider not all crazy stuff make it into our western centered prime time news)
I feel like im living in the script of a bad B-horror movie, where some "stuff" (virus, waves-partilces from outer space, conjunction of the Spheres ala Witcher novel, you name it ...) escaped into this world and poluted the planet
...and now more and more and more people already on the edge just loose it, the most mentally fragile first.
"The Rampage Apocalypse" ???
And now there are reports (reuters press agency) a doctor is killed by a shooter in a hospital in Berlin. The shooter committed suicide.
Everyone calm down. Obama's been trying to tell us that the world is actually safer than it's ever been for quite awhile now. Like 8 years now. It's the damned media that's trying to scare everybody to sell newspapers. Don't you feel safer now than 8 years ago? No? Me either but that's just because I'm a product of racist, Western Culture/ Nationalism/ Christianity. Obama's about to show all of us how to live right when he returns to private life, moves back to the south side of Chicago and gives-up his Secret Service detail and sleeps with his door unlocked at night. Because, you know, he has made the world safer, for all of us. :P
I know I've never felt safer :uglystupid2:
Quote from: Pete Dero on July 26, 2016, 06:52:59 AM
And now there are reports (reuters press agency) a doctor is killed by a shooter in a hospital in Berlin. The shooter committed suicide.
a 72 year old German patient (so the media) of the oral and maxillofacial surgeon doc ...so this falls into the 'Lost it' category
(well, if something went terrible wrong you can loose your sense of smell/taste, and get a partial face paralysis.Every surgery has risks, ...maybe something like that was the trigger)
Quote from: jejo68 on July 25, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
its an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam
No one could see it coming
And your all rascist for thinking otherwise.
I could be policitian
Or a scriptwriter for President Hollande, or Chancellor Merkel... ::)
Yep, the priest died.
All the difference in the world between one kind of testimony (martyr) and the other kind of testimony.
Quote from: Boggit on July 27, 2016, 05:22:42 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 25, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
its an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam
No one could see it coming
And your all rascist for thinking otherwise.
I could be policitian
Or a scriptwriter for President Hollande, or Chancellor Merkel... ::)
Its not hard to be scriptwriters for these people. Just use common sense and then write the opposite
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 27, 2016, 06:28:03 AM
Yep, the priest died.
All the difference in the world between one kind of testimony (martyr) and the other kind of testimony.
There is a move to put the murdered priest on the fast track to Sainthood. Since he lead such an exemplary life and died for the faith, he already meets the Catholic criteria for "Beloved."
Quote from: jejo68 on July 28, 2016, 04:07:33 AM
Quote from: Boggit on July 27, 2016, 05:22:42 AM
Quote from: jejo68 on July 25, 2016, 07:32:36 AM
its an isolated insident.
It got nothing to do with Islam
No one could see it coming
And your all rascist for thinking otherwise.
I could be policitian
Or a scriptwriter for President Hollande, or Chancellor Merkel... ::)
Its not hard to be scriptwriters for these people. Just use common sense and then write the opposite
:2funny:
How do ISIS know what Allah wants? Did they have a conversation with him to make sure they are following his wishes? :idiot2:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-recruits-undercover-sun-reporter-lone-wolf-terror-attack-targeting-major-london-site-1572932
a stabbing in London yesterday even 10:30pm, 1 dead, five injured
the way the media still hide the identity of the 19 year old man arrested on the spot and playing the 'mental-ill medical problem'-card instead ...we all can best guess what kind of fellow its was at the end of the day.
- update -
so its a 'Norwegian national of Somali origin' ...told ya
Quote
The dead woman was confirmed as an American tourist while the injured were British, Australian, Israeli and American.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1552591/dramatic-footage-shows-armed-cops-swooping-on-russell-square-attacker-moments-after-he-killed-us-woman-whose-last-words-were-hes-still-here/
...for the last 30 days there were 141 Islamic attacks in 22 countries, in which 1165 people were killed and 1803 injured (https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30).
I am not defending the attacker here but it sounds like he was just old-fashioned crazy and not new-fashioned Islamocrazy.
Maybe crazy, maybe not. It appears he read/recommended at least one book advocating violent jihadism (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/05/somali-in-london-knife-attack-whom-police-said-was-just-mentally-ill-recommended-jihad-terror-books.html).
So.... Me reading and recommending books about nazi's makes me one.... ???
Umm, no. As I said, maybe he was crazy/mentally-ill, maybe he was a jihadist-in-training...or maybe both? The fact that a Muslim who was recommending a book that supports/recommends violent jihadism as a "good read" and then eventually went out and knifed 6 people, killing 1 is just a bit of a red flag, especially in this day and age.
Sorry Steve, that wasn't aimed at you, but at the article. :-[
No worries O0
Quote from: Gusington on August 04, 2016, 05:04:38 PM
I am not defending the attacker here but it sounds like he was just old-fashioned crazy and not new-fashioned Islamocrazy.
these days our Western authorities like to give filtered information to the public and release them only in droplets over time.
The ever sensation craving media sucking up those droplets, filter them again, and
bend and twist them a little depending on the political bias of editor in chief, who had been carefully picked by the owner of that media just for doing exactly that.
For example you remember Munich-'the Columbine' -shooter
... now the information surfaced that he got a pistol shooting training by his father in Dec 2015 while both on visits in Iran!
(how the father as refugee or political immigrant from Iran, was able to visit that very Iran under the mullah regime again without harm is beyond me)
the Munich boy was pretty much a strong Shiite, and so hated Turks and Arabs (Sunni) from the guts.
(as topping on this he had developed the mis-concept of as of ancient Persian origin born in Germany that he somehow double belongs to the "Aryan master race" ...didn't he ever looked into a mirror once? he mismatched the more general term of "Aryan" used in propaganda in the early years and still today with the 1935 restrict-refined and then also nazi-juridical term of 'deutschblütig' (of pure German blood) )
and so all of his 9 of 9 kills where Sunni Muslims and all had "Sunni immigrant" looks (in his eyes)
so after two weeks its not so much 'Columbine' teen rampage random shooting anymore!
...its a tortured(by local hostile Sunni immigrant offspring environment)-soul Shiite Muslim taking it out on the Sunni Muslims with a little topping of 'race superiority'-feeling self-justification also down on Munich's streets.
So it will take a while if we may (or may not) learn what really happend in London ...droplet for droplet
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/06/attacker-shouts-allahu-akhbar-wounds-2-police-in-belgium.html
Two female police officers attacked by a man with a machete in Belgium.
Edit: NM.
Quote from: Labbug on August 06, 2016, 12:08:09 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/06/attacker-shouts-allahu-akhbar-wounds-2-police-in-belgium.html
Two female police officers attacked by a man with a machete in Belgium.
Isis has claimed the attack this morning.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs1.nieuwsbladcdn.be%2FAssets%2FImages_Upload%2F2016%2F08%2F07%2F958348ae-5ca6-11e6-aaf4-2f7da19d251e_web_scale_0.1953125_0.1953125__.jpg&hash=a07449097ff7e7ecff15edd01f0dcf990642f8db)
The 2 officers are seriously injured in their faces and will require more surgery.
The attacker was an Algerian who apparently lived as an illegal in our country since 2012.
"Soldier" - what a joke.
Quote from: Gusington on August 07, 2016, 03:33:24 PM
"Soldier" - what a joke.
Not really, didnt you see the clip of the so called ISIS "soldiers". He cant in any way be worse then them
Gaggle of clowns, all of them.
An Illegal living in the country since 2012. What could possibly go wrong there?
actually all European (crusader coalition states ....lol ) should go on mayor raids in the well known boroughs, cordon them off, and check any person ...expell all illegal aliens found and also those legal but with the slightest criminal record.
now the problem shows up that their country of origin is often somehow scrambled or those countries doesn't want them back either.
so we safe store those in self sustain farms (with Amish people tech tier level!) under the leading role of of course the French on islands before French Guiana until the repatriation of the very individual can be completed
problem solved.
Actually their should be no foreigner legal, illegal or immigrant you pass by on the street have any criminal record. Period.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/12/at-least-4-dead-dozens-wounded-after-coordinated-bombings-hit-thailand-resort-areas.html
Tourist areas in Thailand targeted.
Quote from: MikeGER on August 08, 2016, 02:15:21 AM
so we safe store those in self sustain farms (with Amish people tech tier level!) under the leading role of of course the French on islands before French Guiana until the repatriation of the very individual can be completed
problem solved.
I think post Brexit it would be a nice gesture of the UK to offer the usage of the islet of Rockall to countries within the EU as a new shared detention centre for terrorists... >:D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall
^Why did the UK want that?
Quote from: Gusington on August 12, 2016, 05:44:10 PM
^Why did the UK want that?
So the Russkies couldn't hide a dingy behind it and spy on British nuclear missile tests nearby.
Quote from: Boggit on August 12, 2016, 03:19:47 PM
I think post Brexit it would be a nice gesture of the UK to offer the usage of the islet of Rockall to countries within the EU as a new shared detention centre for terrorists... >:D
Rockall is much, much too posh for the likes of them. After all, it stays mostly above water, barring the odd storm or two.
I think the Brits wanted it because it kind of looks like a giant Middle-Finger pointing at the US.
Man injures 6 on Swiss train
http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T)
The article doesn't indicate the ethnicity of the attacker. He could be an ordinary Swiss psycho rather than an Islamist.
Quote from: Atilla60 on August 13, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
Man injures 6 on Swiss train
http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T)
Another lunatic according to news here
Odd that people with Islamist ties have suddenly started going insane and stabbing people ::)
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 13, 2016, 03:03:53 PM
Odd that people with Islamist ties have suddenly started going insane and stabbing people ::)
They are all copying each other. If the Media refused use their names in reports then the incentive to 'be somebody' would disappear.
Or do what the Indian call centres do and give them fake English names, I was harassed 6 times on the phone today by 'Lee Jones' who couldn't have been more downtown Bombay if he'd tried
^LOL
Barry from Bombay!
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 13, 2016, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: Atilla60 on August 13, 2016, 02:56:27 PM
Man injures 6 on Swiss train
http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T (http://www.businessinsider.com/knife-attack-on-swiss-train-2016-8?r=US&IR=T&IR=T)
Another lunatic according to news here
Odd that people with Islamist ties have suddenly started going insane and stabbing people ::)
Like the one in London that the police and BBC said wasn't terrorist, but it turns out he's a Somali via Norway, and there was a suggestion IIRC that a witness mentioned the "Allahu Akbar" thing. Not that the police or the BBC would ever lie to the public, especially the day after the police announced their new armed response force to make us all safer didn't make any difference to the stabbings in London. :idiot2:
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 13, 2016, 03:09:30 PM
Quote from: undercovergeek on August 13, 2016, 03:03:53 PM
Odd that people with Islamist ties have suddenly started going insane and stabbing people ::)
They are all copying each other. If the Media refused use their names in reports then the incentive to 'be somebody' would disappear.
Then we'd have a conspiracy to silence the facts about the dangers of etc. ::)
Now poor old Koln has another incident. :( Apparently not terrorist though, according to the police... ::)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3740987/One-person-injured-axe-shooting-attack-Cologne-newspaper.html
It seems Mrs Merkel hasn't learnt that even if 99% of the economic migrants to Germany aren't terrorists, that 1% is still quite a lot given the numbers going to Germany... the thing is this is not just a disaster for Germany but for the whole of the EU, if after a few years the migrants apply for German citizenship, because of the free movement of people (it used to be "workers" in the Treaty of Rome, but the definition of "worker" seems to have evolved into "anyone").
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-attacks-angela-merkel-refuses-to-change-refugee-policy-amid-calls-for-crackdown-following-a7159926.html
Good Lord:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/europe/prague-fake-isis-attack.html?module=WatchingPortal®ion=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=wide&state=standard&contentPlacement=9&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F08%2F23%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fprague-fake-isis-attack.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=0
Those crazy guys. :2funny: NEVER a dull moment when they're around. I don't know HOW they come-up with this stuff. Of course a big batch of fake Zika Mosquitoes would've been even funnier.
Where the hell did they get the camel?
Tractor Supply? I know they have Giraffes.
I love that place.
There is a report the American University in Kabul is under attack.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/08/24/gunfire-reportedly-heard-at-american-university-afghanistan.html
Should you be surprised? ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY
This link is particularly interesting based upon source based material - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ5Bwj3iTrg @around 7:50 there is an interesting link between history and the Qu'ran. It seems that ISIL is better representative of Islam today than the western media will have us believe. If this link is to be believed then we are undeniably at war. :knuppel2:
Maybe some of what Donald Trump was saying isn't actually as crazy as it originally seemed.
Quote from: Boggit on August 29, 2016, 01:18:48 AM
Should you be surprised? ???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgsrnmzxEUY
This link is particularly interesting based upon source based material - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ5Bwj3iTrg @around 7:50 there is an interesting link between history and the Qu'ran. It seems that ISIL is better representative of Islam today than the western media will have us believe. If this link is to be believed then we are undeniably at war. :knuppel2:
Maybe some of what Donald Trump was saying isn't actually as crazy as it originally seemed.
The west is not at war with Islam. To bad Islam is at war with the west
Undoubtedly.
A definite Islamist multiple-stabbing in a US mall, and several bombs going off across the US this morning / last night, per Mom a few minutes ago. Checking for links now.
Not a lot of news on FB about any of it (although I saw something Mom hadn't yet -- debris from EgyptAir Flight MS804 includes traces of TNT (https://www.rt.com/news/359642-egyptair-ms804-tnt-traces/)).
New York Times on the Chelsea Manhattan bombing: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/19/nyregion/chelsea-explosion-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html?_r=0
A second homemade dumpster bomb (like the kind for the Boston Marathon bombing a few years ago) was also found, but it hadn't exploded.
At the moment I'm going to suppose that the reports of other explosions Mom mentioned were a confused recollection of news last night.
Update: Mom was correct, another explosion near the start of a charity race (for Marine Corps members and their families) at Jersey Shores yesterday morning around 9:30.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/jersey-shore-charity-race-canceled-after-explosion.html
Worth noting is that no one has claimed credit for any of these three bombs yet, although the explosions were certainly intentional. The New Jersey bomb harmed no one and nothing -- but that was largely because of an unplanned delay, ironically due to the unexpectedly large number of people attending that morning! :o It could have been, and if things had gone as planned would have been, much worse.
Now for the attack last night that did definitely (so far) have Islamist connections:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/18/us/minnesota-mall-stabbing/index.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/8-people-injured-during-stabbing-attack-minnesota-mall-074620661.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/man-killed-in-mall-stabbing-spree-referenced-allah-police_us_57de81dee4b08cb140963e89
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/18/attacker-reported-dead-after-stabbing-spree-at-minnesota-mall.html
Shot dead by off-duty cop.
Despite one witness claiming the man called upon Allah and asked at least one victim if the victim was Muslim before stabbing him, the St. Cloud police chief said there wasn't enough evidence yet to regard this as a terrorist attack.
I think he may have a somewhat limited idea of what constitutes a "terrorist" attack. ::) There isn't any evidence yet (aside from coincidental explosions on the East Coast) that this was an organized attack, or made in connection with a terrorist organization (even if not organized, although ISIS likes to inspire random people to just go do things and then take credit for their actions later if they can).
Also, I suppose technically he wants confirmational witnesses in case the witness was lying (he could hardly be that mistaken with multiple overlapping different pieces of testimony), before he classifies it as an attack with intention to make a statement or bring about an effect by means of inflicting terror: crazy people going crazy are not strictly terrorist actions. (I'm trying to be fair to the police chief.)
Another explosion, this time in Elizabeth, NJ (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUSPICIOUS_PACKAGE_NEW_JERSEY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-09-19-07-18-37).
Suspect in the NJ and NYC bombs is Ahmad Khan Rahami, 28, a naturalized citizen from Afghanistan, the FBI said.
Ahmad Khan Rahami is in custody after shootout (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/19/person-interest-to-named-in-nyc-bombing.html).
Quote from: steve58 on September 19, 2016, 10:42:38 AM
Ahmad Khan Rahami is in custody after shootout (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/19/person-interest-to-named-in-nyc-bombing.html).
good
Another attack from a devotee of the religion of peace. There's something very "1984" about this doublespeak.
Quote from: Boggit on September 19, 2016, 09:25:49 PM
Another attack from a devotee of the religion of peace. There's something very "1984" about this doublespeak.
yeah those damn buddhists. They are so violent....... oh wait
Fatal shooting of 5 people in a Macy's at a Bloomington, Oregon mall last night; culprit still at large as far as I could tell this morning. No evidence of Islamic connections so far other than general skin color -- and he has been described as Hispanic by one witness -- but with the things going on in the world it's hard not to be suspicious. :-\
Of course, people just go crazy and shoot others sometimes for various (loose) 'reasons'. About 45 minutes south of me in Jackson, there was an employee of a factory who got fired, called someone to pick him up, that guy brought a rifle, and he started shooting cars in the lot. Mom and Dad were driving past during the police manhunt. One of my workers had a girlfriend working at the factory. No one eventually hurt (although the... eventually naked??... man fled surprisingly far through West TN fieldbrush before being caught in a final shootout.) Islamic connections? None at all. BLM connections? None at all. Naturally he was in a no-guns allowed area; police were kind of worried he'd get shot by someone else trying to escape (this being West TN), though more worried police on the chase would be accidentally shot by civilians trying to help.
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 24, 2016, 09:04:32 AM
Fatal shooting of 5 people in a Macy's at a Bloomington, Oregon mall last night; culprit still at large as far as I could tell this morning. No evidence of Islamic connections so far other than general skin color -- and he has been described as Hispanic by one witness -- but with the things going on in the world it's hard not to be suspicious. :-\
Of course, people just go crazy and shoot others sometimes for various (loose) 'reasons'. About 45 minutes south of me in Jackson, there was an employee of a factory who got fired, called someone to pick him up, that guy brought a rifle, and he started shooting cars in the lot. Mom and Dad were driving past during the police manhunt. One of my workers had a girlfriend working at the factory. No one eventually hurt (although the... eventually naked??... man fled surprisingly far through West TN fieldbrush before being caught in a final shootout.) Islamic connections? None at all. BLM connections? None at all. Naturally he was in a no-guns allowed area; police were kind of worried he'd get shot by someone else trying to escape (this being West TN), though more worried police on the chase would be accidentally shot by civilians trying to help.
I think you mean Burlington Wa?
I'm in Seattle and Burlington is about an hour north of Seattle
Yes, the fatalities happened in a Macy's
Yes, was a bit dopey this morning, I meant Washington State. That big county north of Oregon. ;)
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 24, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Yes, was a bit dopey this morning, I meant Washington State. That big county north of Oregon. ;)
The "shit" gets real when it's in your backyard :-[
Quote from: acctingman on September 24, 2016, 08:46:58 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 24, 2016, 02:23:36 PM
Yes, was a bit dopey this morning, I meant Washington State. That big county north of Oregon. ;)
The "shit" gets real when it's in your backyard :-[
Pretty much the way I feel about Sandy Hook.
Shooter in the mall incident in Washington has been ID'd and captured (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/25/mall-shooting-suspect-was-zombie-like-when-arrested-officials-say.html).
"20-year-old Arcan Cetin had immigrated to the U.S. from Turkey and was a "legal permanent resident." It was not immediately clear when Cetin came to the U.S."
I wasn't sure this attack was a terrorist-type attack, but maybe it was...
Quote from: steve58 on September 25, 2016, 09:08:36 AM
Shooter in the mall incident in Washington has been ID'd and captured (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/09/25/mall-shooting-suspect-was-zombie-like-when-arrested-officials-say.html).
"20-year-old Arcan Cetin had immigrated to the U.S. from Turkey and was a "legal permanent resident." It was not immediately clear when Cetin came to the U.S."
I wasn't sure this attack was a terrorist-type attack, but maybe it was...
The little bit I saw on the news was leaning more toward "rejected misogynist anti-social loner" type - had struck out w/ the ladies so he decided to strike out at the ladies.
Anti-fem terror?
I don't think this will enhance his chances of getting a date. A female date I mean.
Quote from: Sir Slash on September 25, 2016, 10:50:56 PM
I don't think this will enhance his chances of getting a date. A female date I mean.
Is it bad that I want this guy to get repeatedly butt dated on a daily basis in prison? O0
Well, he IS Turkish so......
The official ATF HQ page seems the most up to date at the moment, https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/posts/1802658556612679
Although I've also read from the Guardian (the one in the UK ??) that Cetin's ex-girlfriend worked at that Macy's before being fired (or quitting) several months ago.
I expect we're going to learn over the next week as his stuff is examined, that he radicalized pretty recently, in the sense that he was looking for an excuse to be justified and praised for doing something violent he otherwise wanted to do anyway, and found it.
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_loil83wq101qkfp71o1_400.gif)
In sort-of relevant news, Congress passed the JASTA bill recently ("Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act"); Obama vetoed it (pretty understandably, I have to admit); and the Senate has just overwhelmingly voted to overturn his veto. Sanders and Kaine abstained; Reid (the Senate Democratic minority leader) was the only vote in favor of upholding the veto.
If the House also passes, and assuming the Supreme Court doesn't strike it down as unconstitutional later, US citizens will be allowed to sue Saudi Arabia if they or their loved ones were victims of the 9/11 attacks.
I'm... I'm not entirely sure what to think or even feel about this. The level of bipartisan agreement is amazing, but it's also a giant f-bomb to Obama by Congress (on all sides?!?) before hitting the final campaign trail for the Nov 8 election.
I came across this link - Shari'a for Dummies, which is instructive for getting inside the head of the Islamist jihadi...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_2PMeRdIyo
The problem is that this then encourages hate as a "righteous" thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mWX8VB18nI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRF_yPQy-Qo
And yet some Muslims (not all - to be fair) are shocked when they are criticised and call it Islamophobia. Should they be surprised?
Another terrorist bomber was caught while finalizing plan to bomb a mall on Black Friday.
Honduran Living in Miami Pleads Guilty to Attempting to Support ISIS--by Bombing Shopping Mall
By CNSNews.com Staff | March 15, 2018
A Honduran national living in Miami—Vicente Adolfo Solano--has pleaded guilty to "attempting to provide material support to the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS)" after the Federal Bureau of Investigation surveilled him as he tried to carry out what he thought was a plot to bomb a Florida shopping mall.
"According to the stipulated factual basis filed with the Court, in early 2017, Solano told an individual, who later became a Confidential Human Source ('CHS') for the government, that he was upset with the United States and wanted to conduct an attack in Miami," the Department of Justice said in a statement released today.
"Later, Solano told this CHS that he wanted to join ISIS," said DOJ.
"Solano planned to place and detonate an explosive device in a crowded area of a popular Miami mall," DOJ said. "Solano discussed his plot with the CHS and two undercover FBI employees."
In an affidavit submitted to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, FBI Special Agent David Clancy described Solano's actions leading to his arrest and guilty plea.
"In late September 2017, FBI agents began an investigation of Solano," Clancy said in the affidavit. "The investigation was initiated based on information provided by a Confidential Human Source ('CHS'), who had been working with the Drug Enforcement Administration."
"The CHS indicated that Solano had become increasingly upset with the policies of the United States Government and its activities throughout the world," said Clancy. "Solano cited these grievances as motivation for his desire to conduct a terrorist attack in the United States. Solano explained to the CHS that his intended target would be a specified mall in Miami (the Specified Mall) and that he planned to strike on 'Black Friday,' believed to refer to the Friday after Thanksgiving."
Later, Solano sent this source videos expressing his views and intentions.
"On September 13, 2017," Clancy said in his affidavit, "the CHS received a series of text messages that contained three videos from telephone number 786-560-xxxx. The telephone number 786-560-xxxx was known to the CHS as the telephone number used by Solano.
"The three videos sent by Solano featured a man wearing a black mask and shirt standing in front of a black flag identical to the one used by ISIS," said the affidavit. "The CHS identified the voice of the individual in the video as that of Solano."
Solano spoke in Spanish on the videos, but the FBI affidavit published English translations of what he said.
"I am here because I like the way ISIS confronts the United States and the countries of the coalition," Solano said, according to the FBI affidavit. "They're strong."
"[T]he United States is the most terrorist country of them all," said this Honduran. "It invades when it wants to and when it's convenient for them. That is why I am joining the Islamic group, the holy war, in the name of Allah, of our leader Abu."
"I am going to plant a bomb like in—like in Boston, in the name of Allah, in the name of Allah," Solano said. "That's how its' going to be done."
In the second video, Solano reiterated his admiration for ISIS and his desire to attack the United States.
"I am here because I am a sympathizer of the Islamic group, ISIS," he said.
"We must join the ISIS cause," he said.
"They are indeed murderers, genocidists, invaders of this country who came to this country to kill all of the Indians," he said of Americans.
"They abolished them, and now they're telling us to get out of here," he said. "They are the ones who have to leave. F--- that. In the name of Allah and our leader, Abu, we are going to defeat you."
In the third video, Solano issued a similar message. "I am making this video because I am joining the cause of the Islamic group, ISIS," it started.
After receiving the videos, the confidential source met with Solano at a coffee shop in a meeting monitored by the FBI. "Solano reiterated his desire to attack the Specified Mall on Black Friday," says the FBI affidavit. "Solano emphasized his attack desires by stating that he want to 'set off a bomb and [has] the balls to do it.'"
(Continued at link....> )
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/honduran-living-miami-pleads-guilty-attempt-support-isis-bombing